Level Design Contest #24 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Kingshadow3]

I attached the resolve of Kingshadow3's R3 level.

Despite using all skills. This is still a backroute as it skips a trick I am trying to enforce. I've updated my rule 3 to V5.

[IchoTolot]

Another resolve.

[Kingshadow3]

@IchoTolot This one is close enough to the intended solution to be acceptable.

[IchoTolot]

I uploaded my playthrough of the updated levels on YouTube: https://youtu.be/r85SKhd_0ms

[kaywhyn]

Notice: Though there wasn't a new post announcing this recently, the update phase closed a few days ago, so I apologize if I backrouted any of the following levels and a fix is needed, as they can no longer be updated for this contest!

Finally back with some resolves. Resolved KingShadow3's R1 and R2, Niesch's R2, The Tomato Watcher's R2, Armani's R1, and I decided to find the solution for the red side for Armani's R3, as I didn't do so in my playthrough of the contest levels due to just finding the green solution at the time, which I'm told is close enough. My replays are attached. The only one I'm certain is a backroute is Niesch's level, and possibly The Tomato Watcher's R2 due to some skills left over, meaning the fixes probably made it worse, or possibly just means my solution just happens to be efficient. I've seen the intended solution to the former after I resolved the latest version of his level, though, and my solution can easily be blocked with some more OWAs at the unintended place where I did a lot of rapid fire skill assignments. I will say that the intended solution is quite impressive and hence I now understand why the level is called "Aerial Antics."

Armani's Lemmings in a Rave V4 (click to show/hide)

Wow, I really like the blocker release trick with the laserer here! The blocker was the one I couldn't figure out for a while. I guess it kind of helps that your R2 also involves a similar release technique. Also how our R1's both use the backwards builder trick and here I also like the digger releasing the crowd with the climber. Nice job here, and I'm already told on Discord that my solution is intended, but I've included it just for completeness

Armani's Trial by Fire V1 Red Solution (click to show/hide)

This one took me longer than the green one, but that's because I was a dummy and didn't realize that I could simply let the climber die to the fire after digging and fencing up to prepare the route. Ugh, I always run into trouble when I don't pay close attention to the save requirement I kept thinking that I needed to send a climber up there again after platforming that gap to allow the other one to use it to shimmy to prepare the other platformers. Still, nice solution, which I'm certain should be intended. At least the red side works as intended

KingShadow3's OttoLicho's Sprudel Squires V4 (click to show/hide)

This was a difficult one, although I more or less did the same solution as before and hence was able to spare the climber once again I did have to fiddle around with the miner placement on the right in order to get the timing just right for this to happen. It's a bit tight, but fortunately it does work. Again, if this is a backroute, then unfortunately the update phase's been closed a few days ago and hence no more fixes can be made to these levels for this contest. However, if you decide to release a level pack later down the line and include this level, then of course you're more than free to edit it before release. I also checked Icho's solution and it's pretty much more or less the same except I think his digger placement was a bit better, as the timing in mine is far tighter.

KingShadow3's Silence in the Library V3 (click to show/hide)

Definitely a really hard one and it took me quite a while before I managed to solve it. However, I think I'm in agreement with Armani that Icho's R2 is only a tid bit harder than yours. Here, I was a dummy for a long time and kept thinking the sliders need to go through the top right area The solution isn't that fiddly at all. I absolutely love the trick of bombing where the thin steel area near the top is in order to get the sliders up near the left exit, though! Even after I managed to figure this out, I kept coming up a skill short. Eventually, I found the solution in the replay. I checked mine against Icho's solution, and it's almost the same, except I didn't build the sliders out at the bottom left, I used a bomber. I also had the climbers go out through the OWW area instead of relied on the sliders to let the climbers out and hence didn't need the timing there.

Overall, nice level here, although certainly quite difficult for far too many here. I don't mind hard levels, as you probably already know

Niesch's Aerial Antics V9 (click to show/hide)

Definitely a backroute after comparing it to Icho's solution. It's possible that I might had eventually made the connection that the terrain on the side does indeed play a role in the intended solution instead of just being decoration, but for the most part I seemed to have just tried to make my old solution still work somehow It was still difficult trying to see where I can save up a builder, though! As a result, a lot of skills leftover. Again, apologies for waiting this long before resolving and after the update phase has closed, but I've been very busy lately with my job and all.

The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... V4 (click to show/hide)

I used one basher at the top middle this time to get a worker lemming into the bottom area to prepare the rest of the way. However, I do have a builder and two bashers leftover. If this is a backroute, please note that the update phase closed a few days ago and hence no more fixes can be made to levels for this contest. Still, I like how this is a bashers and builders only level.   

@Icho

I need more time to think about your R1 to resolve it. I'm not sure what Armani did, but I'm guessing that his solution involved some extreme precision, which I'm only making this connection due to how you upped the save requirement by 1 from all your previous iterations. I will report back hopefully later with a successful replay in the day. No hints, of course!

[NieSch]

No problem kaywhyn. Impressive to see that you keep finding backroutes if you persevere long enough.

[The Tomato Watcher]

The Tomato Watcher's So Near Yet So Far... V4 (click to show/hide)

I used one basher at the top middle this time to get a worker lemming into the bottom area to prepare the rest of the way. However, I do have a builder and two bashers leftover. If this is a backroute, please note that the update phase closed a few days ago and hence no more fixes can be made to levels for this contest. Still, I like how this is a bashers and builders only level.   

I wouldn't call this a backroute; you didn't really skip anything, you just made it slightly harder for yourself.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One of those extra bashers is an anti-frustration measure, but the other one and the extra builder are just so you don't have to time a builder at the end like you did. I intended for the basher to be used on the builder stairs before the steel block just to the left of the mesh, so that you wouldn't have to worry about lemmings falling into the water while the worker lemming builds over it, bashes through the other block, and builds to the slicer trap area. Once he was done, you'd use the remaining builder to patch up the first staircase so everyone could go to the exit. Not a huge deal that you waited for good timing to save a couple skills; bashing under the slicer trap was the main thing I was looking for.

[Armani]

@kaywhyn

I think you already know, but
Both are 100 intended

[kaywhyn]

Finally got Icho's R1 resolved. Also, videos of my solutions to the updated levels for each rule:

Rule 1: https://youtu.be/8TIq8bDGJKc

Rule 2: https://youtu.be/cZg_Tmb2CzU

Rule 3: https://youtu.be/t0JUSCoByUw

@Icho

Just wanted to let you know that I gave you credit and a shoutout in my R3 video at the very end in the outros. Thanks for being a great friend and your expertise/help in visuals of level designing!
 
Here, I brought a lot of very unnecessary pixel precision, and as you can imagine it was quite frustrating to pull off what I did here, with a lot of very good timing needed The biggest difference from what I've seen with Armani's and Icho's intended solutions is where I contained the crowd (back to the pre-testing times we go here, Icho ), as well as swapped the digger and basher placements.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That second basher assignment is super precise so that he makes a tunnel wide enough to allow the first non-slider to dig down and contain all the non-sliders in there. It has to be done at such a time so that the gap is a pixel away from being sealed but the builder provides the final brick to keep the basher going. Again, I did this from pre-testing this level, so I haven't learned my lesson with pixel precision in my solutions. Why do I insist on solving with messy solutions I have no idea However, I must say being able to patch up the bridge again with the builder going to the right is quite neat, although again that is super precise, as anything else I tried either it won't be patched up, the builder will hit his head and stop after a brick, or the second builder does not reach the wall and is about a pixel short.

I've attached my entire replay collection for the contest, including my replays for all 3 of Icho's levels, and the solutions to my own contest levels. Again, at least one is not intended, Niesch's level, as I ended up resolving after the update phase ended. Also, there are intended solutions for my R1 and R2. My R3 is open-ended and hence I have no specific intended solution in mind, it's just a solution I found to it. For Armani's R3, there are two solutions, one is for the green side, the other is for the red side.

[IchoTolot]

Let's just say at some point you need to stop saving the player from overly timing and precision heavy solutions and I think this point is reached now.

I won't introduce a ton of overly ugly fixes just to prevent a overly complicated variation of the solution (even if the crowd is saved in another place) so I will let it stay.


The voting phase will begin soon when I get the level picture links and find some time to prepare the topic.