Author Topic: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.2 Update]  (Read 2137 times)

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Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1c - UPDATED LEVEL]
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2021, 10:40:05 PM »
Why fix the level if it's not even broken to begin with? As the saying goes, "If it's not broken, don't fix it." It's still solvable, and that's what matters! NL and SL are not the same engine, and it's ok if levels play out slightly different. This has been pointed out repeatedly. When keeping records for the minimum skills used challenge, there can be a note explaining why it requires more than 2 skills in SL, that the basher mechanics appear to be different.

Indeed, the basher keeps going on Lemmini and Dos, though the basher mechanics on SL and Dos appear to be similar in that sometimes the basher will stop on Dos as well. If anything, it would appear that it's a high-res issue, though the fact it keeps going in Lemmini says otherwise. So, it's likely the difference in basher checks that's the problem.   
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1c - UPDATED LEVEL]
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2021, 12:53:54 AM »
ok here is an edit to Wimpy 6 ... I added invisible terrain where those tiny blocks are at the very bottom middle area. Now the basher will continue bashing.

Why fix the level if it's not even broken to begin with? As the saying goes, "If it's not broken, don't fix it." It's still solvable, and that's what matters! NL and SL are not the same engine, and it's ok if levels play out slightly different

I totally agree with kaywhyn here; there's no need to amend the levels to make them playable as-in-NL if they are already playable in SL. It's much more interesting to see how the levels play out differently on different engines, IMHO.

The fact that you've added invisible elements is also somewhat controversial as well; I'm pretty sure namida wouldn't approve of this, and whilst I personally don't have an issue with invisible stuff in levels, I do think it's unnecessary in this case.

So, thanks for sharing the level anyway, but I won't be adding it to the main pack.

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1c - UPDATED LEVEL]
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2021, 02:48:16 AM »
Meanwhile, I've solved the first 3 ranks! Replays attached.

I won't include these replays with the download simply because a lot of them feel very backroutey, especially towards the end of the Medi rank when the difficulty starts to pick up a bit.

However, this at least shows that the levels are all solvable (so far)! :lemcat:

I'll continue with the pack over the next couple of days. If I get really stuck I'll consult the LPs for help, so we'll definitely have a full set of replays for this level pack by the end of the week.

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1c - UPDATED LEVEL]
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2021, 08:04:25 PM »
I watched the replay for (lemmingsense) level in medi.

The lemming built steps in front of the exit and jumped in and nothing else happened. a second lemming also jumped in.

I think he was supposed to go over the exit.
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1c - UPDATED LEVEL]
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2021, 09:26:13 PM »
I watched the replay for (lemmingsense) level in medi.

The lemming built steps in front of the exit and jumped in and nothing else happened. a second lemming also jumped in.

I think he was supposed to go over the exit.

I assume you have the latest version of the levels at the time of your post, since you referenced V1.1c in your previously uploaded 'levelpack (SMS).ini.' that being the case, I'm not sure exactly why your copy isn't working properly, but I've attached both the latest copy of the level and the replay just in case.



EDIT: There has been another level update since I posted this, so I'd recommend updating your copy of the pack to V1.1d (see OP for download) and then trying the replay again. If it still doesn't work, let me know.

Other things to try as well. It's unlikely that it will be due to any of this, but it's worth eliminating as many possibilities as we can:

- Update your copy of Java SE (I'm using 8)
- Use the copy of 'levelpack.ini' supplied with the download rather than your modified one
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 02:35:46 AM by WillLem »

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1c - UPDATED LEVEL]
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2021, 01:33:06 AM »
Replays for levels 1-15 of Danger. All levels solved without hints :lemcat:, with the following exceptions:

Solved with hints from LPs by IchoTolot and Swerdis:

Level 3 Backdraft
Level 8 Cavern Of Chills
Level 13 Breakthrough
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 01:40:20 AM by WillLem »

Offline WillLem

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[SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2021, 01:37:15 AM »
Critical Level Update

This is a critical update for Danger 6 Alternative Logic. The intended solution previously did not work in SuperLemmini, likely due to slight differences in the speed of the timer. Since the intended solution is the only one known to be possible, this means that the previous version of the level is unsolvable.

The update reduces the lem count to perfectly match the faster timer, thus preserving the intended solution whilst also ensuring that any unintended variants remain impossible.

To install, place the attachment into Resources/levels/Lemmings Plus I and choose 'Replace.'

The OP has also been updated to V1.1d with this level included.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 03:23:07 AM by WillLem »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2021, 02:14:57 AM »
Nice catch, WillLem! :thumbsup: Indeed, I have confirmed the level is impossible with the original 50 lemming count. Curiously, the first lemming to reach the stairs does so with 16 seconds remaining on NL, but on SL the same lemming reaches it with 15 seconds remaining. However, even more curious is what happens on Lemmini. With the original 50 lemming count, the clock runs out on the second-to-last lemming and so either the clock is somehow slower than SL's or the lemmings are just an itty-bit faster on Lemmini than they are on SL (I don't remember which timer is faster ATM just tested, SL's timer is slightly faster than Lemmini's, tested on Fun 2, Lemmini finishes with 4:38 remaining on the clock, SL finishes with 4:37 remaining). At the same time, I believe builders don't reach as far on Lemmini, as some do end up catching up and falling into the lava. Even then, it's not possible to get everyone home on time just like in SL and is therefore impossible on Lemmini too.

So, 96 levels in and we have confirmed the first impossible level of the pack under SL by design.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 02:31:09 AM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2021, 02:54:55 AM »
I installed your latest lemmingsense ini file and the replay from that same post.

Both lemmings still jump in to exit after the first one builds up.
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2021, 08:53:58 PM »
I installed your latest lemmingsense ini file and the replay from that same post.

Both lemmings still jump in to exit after the first one builds up.

Is anyone else seeing this, or just Jeremy?

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2021, 09:21:22 PM »
The replay for Medi 29 works fine for me. Another suggestion I have for Jeremy that I didn't see anywhere here is to make sure he has v.104a of Superlemmini. Sometimes for whatever reason replays can break with older versions of Superlemmini

Also, try my replay solution for the level. Does it work, or do you still see the same thing?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 09:36:39 PM by kaywhyn »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2021, 10:03:19 PM »
WillLem's and Kaywhyn's replays both work for me!

WillLem saved 36 lemmings
Kaywhyn saved 35 lemmings


Edit: Sorry misread it. it is 32
required: 32


Also here is my Medi 29 replay. Saved 36. Somewhat different solution than WillLem's and Kaywhyn's
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 11:39:43 PM by ericderkovits »

Offline kaywhyn

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2021, 11:36:56 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline jkapp76

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2021, 12:03:35 AM »
I just double-checked everything.

This new replay works fine, but he builds the steps much higher too.

As for the first one... he still jumps in the exit instead of going over it.
I have the latest version of SuperLemmini. and I'm using the ini and replay that are together above and just for me.

Ericderkovits replay does NOT work either, same issue! Is there any other resource I might have overwritten or something that would cause this?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 12:13:50 AM by jkapp76 »
...Jeremy Kapp

Offline WillLem

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Re: [SuperLemmini] Lemmings Plus I (150 Levels) [V1.1d - LEVEL UPDATE]
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2021, 12:05:37 AM »
Thanks for the replays guys, confirmed that they both work for me. Interesting little individual variations in both of your solutions which is always fun to see :lemcat:

So, that narrows it down to it being likely that there's something up with Jeremy's copy of SL. Let's keep investigating and see if we can figure it out between us.