Level Design Contest #22 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[Armani]

@eric
Thanks for playing my level! That's a backroute as you expected.
Easy enough to fix though.

And I resolved Interception and Love-Hate triangle.

[kaywhyn]

@Armani The start is now 100% intended. After that, you're still backrouting the level terribly. It's interesting, considering that some of the skills after the start you had placed correctly in your previous solution, but this one just has a lot of incorrect or unintended skill placements. All rightie, I've added some OWAs to prevent what you did with releasing the crowd, as well as swapped the locations of the jumper pickup that has a quantity of 2 with the nearby platformer pickup. Fingers crossed this will finally enforce the solution I had in mind

[Nessy]

A Rock and a Hard Place V2 solutions are still backroutes, but a little bit more on the right track Might have to slightly tweak my solution to get a V3 fix working... although after testing, it actually allows the whole solution to flow much better so that's awesome.

[Armani]

Resolved updated levels

Interception V3 (click to show/hide)

Added steel and fire trap don't affect my solution at all and I didn't even need to use additional builder and miner.

A Rock And A Hard Place V3 (click to show/hide)

I like my solution but I doubt this is intended.

Take A Hike V2 (click to show/hide)

I had to adjust my solution a little bit but basically similar to my previous one.

The Chamber of Mummies V2 (click to show/hide)

Hope this is closer to what you have in mind.

The Love-Hate Trangle V8 (click to show/hide)

Sorry, I have no idea what you have in mind tbh. Another backroute incoming

[kaywhyn]

Indeed, backroute again I was actually in fear when I saw that you said you resolved my R3 that there would be another backroute, and indeed I have confirmed it to be so. However, the part on the very far left is now 100% intended, it's the parts after you use the teleporter where backroutes are still happening. For V9, I have added steel, so this will now hopefully be it. If this still doesn't stop your backrouting, I'm not sure what more I can do to enforce the solution I had in mind.

[Crane]

I'm starting to wonder if my levels are too hard!

[Nessy]

@Armani (click to show/hide)

Your solution is actually intended but it seems to have been a bit more precise than my solution. Basically, the release rate and terrain width was set in such a way so that you can do that trick with the blocker right from the start and then use the bomber to free the blocker and get a climber at the top of the level. But I'm not super picky about the way you did it though because the main idea is there so well done good sir

[Armani]

@Nessy
Wow, my solution is actually intended? I've never thought so.. It's a nice level anyway and deceivingly hard. Quite hard to see the solution indeed.

I resolved  High Rise Hijink and Immortal. Two replays for the former.

[Crane]

Hrm... all backroutes.  The first one is the same one that Eric keeps pulling off despite me not being skilled enough to do it myself - I can't work out what the secret is (can you reveal it to me?), although I can possibly see a way to prevent it now.  The second solution to High Rise Hijinks is an original backroute that will take quite some thought.

Immortal... hmmm... also more thought required.

[kaywhyn]

All rightie, I've managed to solve all of the R1 levels. Here are my replays and my feedback. I pre-tested Icho's contest levels for the second time in a row, and once again it was quite an honor to do so. I've included my replay for his R1 level, so you may compare with mine if you wish. However, you might want to try and solve it on your own first. It is difficult, but I'm sure you lot are all capable of handling it Also, Icho said my solution is about 95% intended but was still deemed acceptable.

Also links to my LP videos of the R1 levels:

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-_omF10ac0

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5efEHEMARhA

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Kj61mQsfg

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWOjwsynRaU

Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95fhoG9O2Xo

Part 6: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtGY4YDTKy4

Armani's Childhood Dreams R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Nice level! I'm not sure if my solution is intended, since I have a climber and floater leftover.

Crane's High Rise Hijinks R1V14 (click to show/hide)

I don't know if this is the same backroute that eric keeps using. Something tells me that it is, since I do have a bomber leftover.

Dullstar's Interception R1V3 (click to show/hide)

I didn't realize that Icho didn't put in your V3 of your R1. Interestingly enough, he didn't put the most recent version of your R3 either. This means that in my LP you'll see your R1 twice. Part 1 is V2 of your R1, while Part 5 will show your V3 of your R1. However, the zip of my replays is for your V3. I don't think this is quite intended, since I have a climber and floater leftover this time instead of using all skills like I did with your V2.

ericderkovits' Come Home Lemmings R1V3 (click to show/hide)

Wow, this one was a difficult one for me. I made a pass for my first round, since it took me longer than 20-25 minutes and I couldn't solve it in that timeframe. When I did come back to your level in part 5 of my LP, I was able to solve it, but still after much struggling. I'm pretty sure my solution I ultimately found isn't quite intended, but surely it's still acceptable since I still end up using most of the skills? Also, nice choice of music here, being a variation of the Tetris theme

Flopsy's The Cooler Side of Hell R1V1 (click to show/hide)

This one was a bit difficult for me. Amusing that I ended up struggling for a time until I found this solution that leaves several climbers, floaters, and a bomber leftover. Is this acceptable?

Gronkling's Iron-age Forge R1V2 (click to show/hide)

Wow, this one was a great one! I thought I was going to be stuck here for a while, but I solved this one fairly quick That's a nice trick of using a digger with no terrain underneath him to build and get him to the bottom.

Nessy's A Rock And A Hard Place R1V3 (click to show/hide)

This is by far my favorite level of R1. Very nice solution, and that's an absolutely nice trick of using a non-climber to bomb and release the climber so that the climber can be reused. Somewhat difficult, but it wasn't too hard at all. Nice job here!

Niesch's Take A Hike R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Somewhat difficult for a 5-of-everything except builders, which you have double the amount, but still not very hard. This is probably an open-ended level, so probably most solutions, including mine, are acceptable.

rtw's Warmth R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Nice 1-of-everything level. Amusing that I thought it was quite straightforward until I realized too late the nearly hidden trap near the exit. Compression method for the win!

Shmolem's Climb The Water Tower R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Nice level. I don't think my solution is intended, since I do have some leftover skills. This one's still isn't trivial, though.

Silken Healer's Building Bridges R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Nice attempt at a level. Nice and easy.

The Tomato Watcher's Spheres N' Cubes R1V1 (click to show/hide)

Nice level. Despite the excessive leftover skills, this must be it, since this seems to be the only way to solve it.

WillLem's See You On The Other Side R1V3 (click to show/hide)

Solution is obvious, getting it to work is quite difficult. The hardest part is the far right side with getting everyone to turn around. There have been times that I got it to work, but I kept using way too many builders in the process. Also, there were plenty of times where I would get them down safely but unfortunately they land too close to the trigger area of the ketchup wheel, or they unfortunately splat because it's fatal by 1 pixel. Yours was another that I had to use another video to solve, especially since I've already ran long. I probably could had gotten it solved in just that one video, but I was already too frustrated with getting it to work. Interestingly enough, it only took me about a good 5-7 minutes the next time I came back to the level to solve

[Armani]

@Kaywhyn

Sadly, backroute Using two bombers to release the left crowd is not intended. I added some steels there to prevent it.
I haven't watched the videos, I can watch them this weekend or so.

[ericderkovits]

@ Kaywhyn

Sorry, but your solution is not the intended solution. Still a backroute.

So
1) I added 1 steel block
2) flipped the 3 rightmost left-facing OWWs to face right instead and extended the rightmost one all the way down.
3) added water

[kaywhyn]

Resolved Armani's Childhood Dreams V2 and eric's Come Home Lemmings V4

Armani (click to show/hide)

I think this is intended now, as I use all the skills. The level's definitely better now I'm already familiar with the turning fallers in midair around with a blocker trick. I like how after bashing the right crowd out they're stuck in an infinite loop until you build to reach the exit trigger. Also, you need to bomb the climber after bashing and not a non-climber, as then you'll always be a lemming short of the requirement.

Also Armani, no worries if you can't watch the videos right now. I understand you're busy with school. More videos to come at a later time, since I still need to do the R2 and R3 levels.

@eric I think this is more or less intended now, even though I have some builders leftover. And yes, you're right about the old version being not that difficult. I realize that now due to me simply overthinking the solution in my mind. I was able to resolve this version much quicker, and for V3 it's simply the same solution as I did here, just where to bash needs to be lower when the OWAs were facing the wrong way. Again, LPing is a whole different ball game and honestly I think a psychological thing is at play here.

Also, I had a problem where a climber drowned when he was climbing the middle wall, as it appears that the trigger area of the quicksand is much higher/wider than it really is. 

[ericderkovits]

RE:

Thanks Kaywhyn; This is now intended

Notes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's ok that you had 3 builders and a blocker remaining. I gave the 3 extra builders to help with the basher so he won't stop as Crane noted. You got the intended solution though.

[ericderkovits]

ok, sorry maybe it's best then to withdraw this level since I still backrouted v15 in editor.

here is the replay