Author Topic: erics FUN and Tricky levels  (Read 844 times)

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Online ericderkovits

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erics FUN and Tricky levels
« on: June 19, 2020, 09:27:59 am »
I figured I would give a try to make my first neolemmix levels(15 in small pack). These levels are not too hard. most levels have pickup skills. I'm not a very good artist either. I made the maps myself, didn't use any from conversions.
I might when I have time adding to the pack.

just extract to the levels and music to main neolemmix directory. Some of the styles that I picked are by default not in there so when getting to a level with missing styles, it will ask you to download the missing ones, just say yes.

It's only 15 levels but for me that's saying something since I just figured I give it a try. And I tested them they all work. I even gave the replays.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 06:21:08 pm by ericderkovits »

Offline namida

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2020, 11:33:57 am »
It's good practice to make the ZIP (or 7z, in this case) file so that it can be extracted directly to the NeoLemmix directory and everything falls into place. Also, the Lomax track you tried to include with the music, is in fact just a shortcut to a track, which won't work on anyone else's PC.

"15 level pack" also isn't very descriptive, I suggest giving it a better name - "Ericderkovits's 15 level pack" (or some variation thereof) would be fine.

Regarding the individual levels - note that I'm writing this as I go, not writing it all in hindsight once I've finished.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also - as a general piece of feedback, time limits are best avoided unless there's specifically a good reason to have them. For examples from the official games - well, you could look at where Redux has vs hasn't chosen to keep them, but in general, levels like "Just A Minute" are ones where it's justified (the time limit is the challenge), whereas ones like "Save Me" are ones where it isn't (all the time limit does is add frustration and/or a requirement to RR99 and release the crowd early).

Overall - these levels are for the most part pretty easy, and while some of them are near self-solving (by this I mean things like "you have 5 gaps and 5 builders, assign a builder as you come to each gap"), there's a few that are interesting puzzles. Definitely keep trying - there's potential here!

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2020, 06:17:12 pm »
ok, thanks for the suggestions and review. I'm new at this. Ok so the pickup skills can be on top of each other-ie (instead of 5 single consective builders one can have 5 on top of each other-thx. I Made these levels quick kinda late at night. didn't put too much thought into them. I know some are extremely easy but like you said it starts off as tutorials. also I wanted to use the new skills. The last one you said was long. Yes I agree but it was like 2:30 in the morning so I was tired I just wanted to get the 15th in. Next time I will try not too use pickup skills- since from this point on they are not really tutorials although still in the fun rank.
As far as the lomax tune Yes I see that I will correct. and repost pack. Like I said it was late, and I was tired so these were kinda rushed. but  thx.

Also the more I try doing the levels maybe I won't overthink too much like you said the 2nd level only gliders can survive this was although not hard maybe was for a tuturial level.

Offline mantha16

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2020, 06:21:48 pm »


when you assign the pick up skill in the editor you'll see where it says skill count, just change that to how many you want to give

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2020, 06:25:46 pm »
ok, thx mantha16 this is the first time I've made any levels

Offline mantha16

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2020, 06:26:53 pm »
I edited my post to show where I meant cos I'm not always good at explaining what I mean

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2020, 06:28:15 pm »
yes i unstood even before your edit

Offline mantha16

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2020, 06:33:18 pm »
ok good cos sometimes i know it makes sense in my head but i dont always use the right terminology like yesterday i referred to the bottom taskbar as the thing where all the stuff im doing is.

Offline mantha16

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2020, 06:57:42 pm »
level one - I liked the puzzle even though the button caught me out lol.

I would say I agree about the name of the level also, if you go to the pieces tab when you have a piece of terrain selected you will see the draw first draw later etc buttons play with those cos that can help hide hard edges like you have on the right so it looks more like one piece

Offline namida

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2020, 07:28:40 pm »
Quote
Next time I will try not too use pickup skills

There's nothign wrong with using them. All I was saying is - if you need to give the player several of a skill, you can put a single pickup skill object that does this, rather than multiple.

It's up to you if you actually do so - it might even depend on the individual level. As long as it's clearly visible to the player how many skills they'll get (eg: don't overlay 5 singles directly on top of each other so that it looks like just one - either use the Skill Count so it actually displays "5", or else place them so it's clearly visible there's 5 of them), either way is ultimately fine - I'm simply making sure you know the option is there. :) That in general is the key thing with NeoLemmix - the golden rule is that what's what in the level should be as clear to the player as practical. (And to be clear, there weren't any levels in your pack where I didn't feel this was the case. I'm simply stating it in general.)

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2020, 11:12:24 pm »
remember these are the beginning stages of fun. when I leave fun I will get them a littlier trickier but only to fit the rank. also since this was in fun that is why I started with pickups, as I go along they will be used a little less frequently, but that doesnt mean I will abandon just fun is supposed to be easy. at least there better than ohno tame levels. those shouldnt have been in the pack. Most people find those insulting.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2020, 05:12:13 pm »
slowly working on more levels-made another 5 last night will do more today. once i get done with fun I will repost. then i will do a whole rank (30 levels in tricky) before posting again. until I get thru all 120 of original. it will take time. oh am I am taking Namidas suggesting both about the pickup skill when using multiples while use just 1 icon with (if more than 1 will have a number in ie(5)) and also the time will put unlimited time(unless I get to the levels that require it(like just a minute)). Also when I get done with the fun rank and repost, I will go back and change the ones I made previously and change those to unlimited time also.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 05:18:39 pm by ericderkovits »

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix(now fun rank is done)
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 08:55:58 am »
ok I've finished my fun rank for neolemmix-I decided to name it Angry Lemmings.

Just extract pack to your neolemmix folder. everything should fall into place(like Namida wanted it to).

Note only 2 levels have time limits the other 28 are infinite. level 12 (Inpatience) I have one only because of the title(Impatient)
I forget which other level has one.
also with multiple pickups they are now 1 object including the ones I had previously(fixed those levels also with infinite time).
tomorrow will start tricky rank.

enjoy! And I included replays.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 09:01:14 am by ericderkovits »

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 03:59:07 am »
working on tricky levels now

Offline messedupface

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 05:25:07 am »
level 4 is missing skills to bridge the gap & in level 21, one of the pick up skills is missing (icon is there but no skill added)

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's lemmings pack
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2020, 06:56:37 am »
I think maybe something is wrong with your neolemmix directory. I just made a new directory. installed a new fresh 12.9.2 neolemmix player in it then extracted this pack into that new directory. started game. level 4 and 21 has no problems. try installing a new fresh neolemmix player and extract this pack into that directory. it should work. only thing is when you get to levels with non-default styles it will ask you if you want to add them, just say yes. level 4 has 10 swimmers and 10 jumpers.
also Namida has played my first 15 and he would have mentioned a problem in level 4 if there were one. so just install a new neolemmix player directory. also level 21 every icon has a number. I played the level also checked and played both level 4 and 21 in the editor with this new extraction. both levels are correct.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 02:33:02 am by ericderkovits »

Offline messedupface

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2020, 07:02:21 am »
Ahh, that`s probably it, I haven`t updated neolemmix. Thank you

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2020, 02:26:30 am »
Done with the Tricky levels now on to the Taxing

Offline namida

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2020, 05:53:59 am »
Just a suggestion - when you do release updates to the pack, edit the first post rather than putting them in a reply (but, still reply too to say "there's an update" - just put the download, itself, in the first post - or in both). It makes the download easier to find, especially for newcomers to the topic.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2020, 07:04:47 am »
Man a  few of the tricky levels when I tried to retry them, I forgot how to solve a few. but now I have the replays. I'm afraid the taxing ones I might forget how to solve so I might have to do 10 at a time. the first 2 taxing ones I can tell already are much harder than anything in Fun or Tricky. (of course I'm Not the greatest puzzle solver).

It would be cool if when using the editor to make levels, it would save a replay for a particular level so when you go put all levels in a pack you would have the replays already. I don't know if it would be possible to have this in the editor. I only think this would be cool because I forget how to solve some levels especially more difficult ones and when there is a whole pack it's easy for me to forget the solutions on the harder levels.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 06:30:45 pm by ericderkovits »

Offline namida

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2020, 06:42:01 pm »
Unless you've turned it off, NeoLemmix does auto-save a replay whenever you successfully complete a level. This is a property of the game, not the editor.

When doing testplay mode from the editor, the replays will be saved in Replays -> Auto, with the level's title + the timestamp as the filename. When playing a level in NL, the replays will be saved in Replays -> [Pack name] -> Auto; the filename may either be the rank and level number + timestamp (if the level is in a group where the levels are specifically ordered), or the title + timestamp (if not).

If you have turned this off, or it just appears to not be happening, check the NeoLemmix options menu. (Note that while you CAN open the options menu at the preview / postview screens in test play mode, any changes only apply until you exit testplay mode. If you want to change it permamently, you need to launch NeoLemmix standalone, change it there, then exit.)

General advice: As soon as you make a single level, save a replay for it. Of course you aren't forced to do this, but it's a process that most (if not all) of the regular content creators follow, for good reason. Keep these replays somewhere safe - not inside your Replay folder where they are very prone to getting mixed up with other various replays, or possibly cleared out periodically. Personally, I keep my levels and their replays in a Git repo, but this could be a bit more advanced than some people feel comfortable with - just keeping a copy in a seperate folder (preferably one backed up to a cloud backup service, to reduce the risk of losing your levels if your PC dies) should be good enough for most.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2020, 07:26:32 pm »
ok awesome when the level is to the point of being solved just to save hit 'U' to save the replay. it works in the editor. I think thats great will save me lots of time. thanks

Offline namida

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2020, 07:44:04 pm »
Quote
ok awesome when the level is to the point of being solved just to save hit 'U' to save the replay. it works in the editor. I think thats great will save me lots of time. thanks

You shouldn't even need to do that. When you complete the level (and reach the preview screen, with enough lemmings saved), a replay should save automatically.



Okay, so, played the rest of your Fun update.

Feedback (click to show/hide)

Overall - I think that what I said before still stands. You've got some work to do here, but you definitely have good potential too. And don't take this criticism too harshly - most of the highly-experienced level creators agree that creating good easy levels is actually really hard to do; it's much easier to create a good hard level, and in some ways I see that reflected here - most of your best levels are also the ones that are a bit hard for their position. This is certianly a very decent pack (so far) by the standards of people's typical first packs, especially if you've only ever played the original games and not looked at custom content much prior to this.

EDIT: I forgot to attach replays before. Fixed that now.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 09:24:12 pm by namida »

Online ericderkovits

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Re: eric's 1st trial pack for neolemmix
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2020, 10:00:47 pm »
Thx for the Input.
17 I changed the lemming count to just 10 lemmings-at least the level took me only 2 1/2 mins
20 I will remove 1 builder

Note: I didnt like that solution for 22 so
22 I put 2 steel blocks to the right of deadly flower so one can bash to the right. also made barrier left of exit steel so can't be bashed.
and
put a small single steel block on left left shimmy rod so if one shimmies to the right there he will fall before relanding near dog
23 I changed the name to Not such a Lemming feeling instead of T marks the spot.
yeah your right I moved the start position to show the entrance. also decrease lemming count to 10 so not as much lingering of lemmings.
24 I resized the level so now looks better- also removed that lemming at the right top that has no function- I just thought maybe newbies would think there was a way to save him.
25 and 26 put steel underneath so one could not get to buttom level by not intended routes.

Note: didnt like that solution either for 27 so put a steel barrier left of car so cant go right there.
27 decreased lemming count from 30 to 15
28 Yes ok, I will replace this level with an entire new one
29 added a few small steel spots so fencer can't fence in those spots to get to lower level early
30 decreased lemming count from 30 to 12




I know even experienced level makers have to keep updating backroutes(sometimes it takes players to tell the makers backroutes) so I appreciate this. I try my best but sometimes there is so much other things going on in the levels, sometimes the obvious is not so obvious

and I know even the lemmings games had some bad levels like you said (ie hunt the nessy, but since this is supposed to mimic those at least in a small way some levels like 16 are hard to get away from)
yes and your right FUN levels are not so easy, plus they tend to be boring. and of course I'm not a great artist either in making maps(my first time)

But I do really appreciate critisizm. thats how one becomes better at making levels.



Great thanks for your replays so I can see spots to fix

levels 22 25 26 27 29 hated your replays so see above fixes I made  for those levels and resend those level replays

level 25 and 26 I already figured those ones had major issues. again I made these kinda late so was tired. see above fixes for 25 and 26

your other level replays are good.

thx Namida. when I finish this pack Hopefully your do the same with my other ranks levels
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 11:32:32 pm by ericderkovits »

Online ericderkovits

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erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2020, 12:50:36 am »
Hi here are my Fun and Tricky levels
still have to replace Fun 28 with a new level so Namida ignore that one.

Namida please Play these and send replays so I can fix the Tricky ones.

I fixed some issues in the Fun ranks

Thx for the Input.
17 I changed the lemming count to just 10 lemmings-at least the level took me only 2 1/2 mins
20 I removed 1 builder

Note: I didnt like that solution for 22 so
22 I put 2 steel blocks to the right of deadly flower so one cant bash to the right. also made barrier left of exit steel so can't be bashed.
and
put a small single steel block on left left shimmy rod so if one shimmies to the right there he will fall before relanding near dog
23 I changed the name to Not such a Lemming feeling instead of T marks the spot.
yeah your right I moved the start position to show the entrance. also decrease lemming count to 10 so not as much lingering of lemmings.
24 I resized the level so now looks better- also removed that lemming at the right top that has no function- I just thought maybe newbies would think there was a way to save him.
25 and 26 put steel underneath so one could not get to buttom level by not intended routes.

Note: didnt like that solution either for 27 so put a steel barrier left of car so cant go right there.
27 decreased lemming count from 30 to 15
28 Yes ok, I will replace this level with an entire new one
29 added a few small steel spots so fencer can't fence in those spots to get to lower level early
30 decreased lemming count from 30 to 12




I know even experienced level makers have to keep updating backroutes(sometimes it takes players to tell the makers backroutes) so I appreciate this. I try my best but sometimes there is so much other things going on in the levels, sometimes the obvious is not so obvious

and I know even the lemmings games had some bad levels like you said (ie hunt the nessy, but since this is supposed to mimic those at least in a small way some levels like 16 are hard to get away from)
yes and your right FUN levels are not so easy, plus they tend to be boring. and of course I'm not a great artist either in making maps(my first time)

But I do really appreciate critisizm. thats how one becomes better at making levels.



Great thanks for your replays so I can see spots to fix

levels 22 25 26 27 29 hated your replays so see above fixes I made  for those levels and resend those level replays

level 25 and 26 I already figured those ones had major issues. again I made these kinda late so was tired. see above fixes for 25 and 26

your other level replays are good.

thx Namida. when I finish this pack Hopefully your do the same with my other ranks levels



UPDATE: there was one missing music track please replace with this one


UPDATE: Replaced FUN level 22 with a new one as the original was Namida and Kahwyn thought it shouldn't be in the FUN rank
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 02:56:50 am by ericderkovits »

Online ericderkovits

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Replacement for eric's fun 28 (If only they could survive)
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2020, 03:06:02 am »
Here is the replacement level for fun 28(If only they could survive). just overwrite the one that's there with this one.

Online ericderkovits

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2020, 05:36:34 am »
had changes in Tricky levels

Level 6 had to add a few spots of steel so miner couldn't mine to below area and removed 2 miners.

level 10 had to do minor terrain fixes and subtract 2 jumpers and lowered pickup stacker count from 8 to 4 to prevent a backroute.

level 11 had to add a bouncing ball trap in spot past high on wall so floater couldnt float down before platforming there. made
             it so he had to use swimmer and shimmier and use 2 more stackers (backroute fix).

level 25 made a backroute fix. removed 1 blocker and 1 platformer but added a walker. thus making save requirement 40 of 40 instead of 39. also just widened level a tad so right most edge of screen one can see the whole rightmost conveyor belts.

Please update to this one. thx

NOTE: to have correct music download old version which includes music (2 posts up then update the levels with this one)

« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:21:33 am by ericderkovits »

Offline namida

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2020, 07:06:33 pm »
As I mentioned before - I strongly suggest making sure the original post of the topic has a download of the latest version - in full, not "add this to a previous version from a later post".

It's not a bad idea though to split this into two downloads - a music download, and an "everything else" download.

I've had another look at the levels, but so far haven't managed to solve the new version of Fun 22. It's definitely way too hard for Fun now (unless I'm overlooking something obvious, which to be fair, is very possible knowing me). Note that this doesn't in any way mean it's a bad level; just that it's too hard for its position in the level order. Keep it - just move it to later in the pack. :)

Online ericderkovits

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2020, 07:42:37 pm »
really, I thought it was easy, I could make it feast of a levelII(mayhem) but it's too easy for that one. if You need a hint or replay let me know.

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2020, 08:04:38 pm »
Don't think too hard on this one. As a matter of fact, I found two different solutions for Fun 22, both of which aren't difficult. However, I do agree that it's difficult for its position, so consider moving it further down the rank.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 08:17:22 pm by kaywhyn »

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2020, 08:48:18 pm »
Hey kaywhyn which rank should I put it in by your solutions. Tricky taxing or mayhem. I could make an easier Fun 22

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2020, 09:28:47 pm »
Hey eric, great to see you here too. Once again, thank you for all those Superlemmini packs! They all work perfectly fine and I don't encounter any crashes at all anymore thanks to your great work. :thumbsup:   

Besides Fun 22, I haven't looked at any of the other levels, so I can't say for sure if it should stay in the Fun rank by moving further towards the end of the rank or even move to the Tricky rank, which as I understand is what you have completed up to. Due to the somewhat restrictive skillset on the level, as well as how the solutions I found aren't exactly trivial, I say Tricky might be fine for it, as restricting the skillset is pretty much what the original lemmings did starting in the second half of Tricky. In the original game, except for the tutorial levels and Fun 18, all the levels in the Fun rank had very excessive skillsets. Besides Fun 22 in your pack, I don't know if this is true for the other Fun levels. If not Tricky, then maybe early Taxing at most, but as Taxing has not been completed by you yet, can't say for sure. As a matter of fact, the difficulty of Fun 22 in this pack is really close to Postcard from Lemmingland, which is Tricky 19 and was a real roadblock for many people when they first played the game all those years ago, so perhaps around there is a good new position for your Fun 22. Again, there might be a better position for it in the Tricky rank, I'm just not sure since I haven't looked at any of the other levels in the pack. Namida is the best person in this case to say for sure since he has looked at the other levels in the pack.

Offline namida

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2020, 11:02:28 pm »
really, I thought it was easy, I could make it feast of a levelII(mayhem) but it's too easy for that one. if You need a hint or replay let me know.

Not for now. I'm the type who would rather leave the level unsolved if I can't figure it out; but I'll likely take a second look next time I'm playing some Lemmings in general.

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Re: erics FUN and Tricky levels
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2020, 11:49:27 pm »
as per namida and kaywhns request I will transfer fun 22 to one in beginning Taxing, since I've only done 1/3 of Taxing so far. I will make a new fun 22 but don't worry I'm not destoying the level just transfering to a different rank.

Ok here is a replacement level for Fun 22 which should be easier.

Just replace this one over the original(It will still list it as A feast of a level.nxlv but it's actually a new level-A Beach of a level;
for just this one level I didn't want to repack the whole fun and tricky levels)

And the Feast of a level I'm transfering it to Taxing 11 since I've made the first 10 of taxing-will be called the ascending shimmier scenario)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 03:09:54 am by ericderkovits »