Author Topic: Quest From Kieran [Difficulty: Medium - Very Hard]  (Read 2971 times)

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Offline kieranmillar

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Quest From Kieran [Difficulty: Medium - Very Hard]
« on: March 04, 2023, 08:18:57 PM »
Welcome to Quest From Kieran, the prequel to Quest From Kieran 2!

This is a 60 level pack for Neolemmix v12.12.5 or later. Like the other entries to the QFK series, it tries to maintain the traditional Lemmings style, so only the original 8 skills, no levels taller than the original height, only levels styles from the original game and Oh No, that sort of thing, but the levels are significantly more puzzle focused than the original games.

The music is songs made by classic British demoscene musician 4mat, specifically tracks from a Jet Set Willy remake. You should be fine with regards to e.g. copyright on Youtube playthroughs. I came up with my own names for the tracks, there were no official names.

Difficulty is probably Medium to Very Hard, but I'm quite bad at properly gauging the difficulty of my levels. I hope you enjoy!

Special thanks to Armani and Akseli for comprehensive testing, and Wafflem, Ste Woz Ere, ericdekovits and WillLem for additional testing and comments.

The Ranks

Fun
I thought it made no sense why only the original game gets to have a rank that states the levels are fun. I want my levels to be fun too! So I named this rank Fun. Hah! Take that!

Investing in Infrastructure

Also Fun
What, you thought only the first few levels in a level pack are allowed to be fun? Well not this time! These levels are a bit harder, but they're still fun!

Frozen Arches

Hard But Still Fun
Levels don't have to be easy to be fun. Even my hard levels are fun!

Pillars of the Community

Not Fun
Well I guess they can't all be winners.

The High Ground

How to Install

Extract the contents of the zip file into Neolemmix's levels folder. Then inside Neolemmix, press F2 to select the level pack you wish to play. If you want the music, extract the files into Neolemmix's music folder.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 09:09:23 PM by kieranmillar »

Offline Armani

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Re: Quest From Kieran
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2023, 04:08:14 AM »
Congratulation on the pack release!
I'm glad to have helped test this pack! I had a lot of fun. :laugh:

It starts with some easy puzzles as the rank name says and gradually enters harder territory.
Especially the final rank has some nuts to crack even for adept solvers.
A lot of the levels have simple layouts and small to medium skillsets but the solutions to them are really well hidden in the plain sights and give satisfying feeling when you figure them out.

It uses only classic 8 skills and the original styles so bonus points to those traditionalists. ;)

I can definitely recommend this pack to play :thumbsup:
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Quest From Kieran
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2023, 10:08:23 PM »
@Kieran

I'm a bit late, but congrats on the pack's release! :thumbsup: It might have taken a while, but you made it :P I have added this to my to-LP list. I been meaning to play through this pack sometime myself, when I happened to stumbled upon it by chance in the "in development" board of the Forums quite a while back. Looks like it was a good thing I waited for the New Formats conversion ;) It's not going to be for a while, but when I do, I'll make sure I link you to my LP so you can watch whenever you have available time ;)

Also, I say the custom music sounds great! :thumbsup: I love custom music, but even if a level pack doesn't use that, I always play with the author's intended music pack regardless of whether there's some tracks I'm not a fan of.

I'll also need to give your L2 pack a try sometime too! I think a while ago I stopped after only two levels, and something tells me it might be due to how I started with the Shadow tribe, which probably wasn't the best choice for a first tribe :laugh: However, I'll get back to it sometime, but not after I have gone through the base L2 game first, as it's been a while since I last played and completed the game.

Anyway, congrats again on the pack's release and I look forward to playing through it in the future! :thumbsup:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0

Offline mobius

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Re: Quest From Kieran
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2023, 02:33:27 AM »
I took a peek so far; looks great! intriguing levels. I look forward to playing through this properly! [as much of it as I can]. Is the difficulty greater or lesser than QFK2? I've played part way though that (great pack once again).
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline kieranmillar

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Re: Quest From Kieran
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2023, 07:48:20 AM »
Thanks for the kind words all.

Hard to say how it compares difficulty-wise to the other entries in the QFK series. Im very bad at guaging the difficulty of my own stuff. This one at least has the benefit of everyone being familiar with all the mechanics, so it may feel easier for that reason maybe.

Offline kieranmillar

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Re: Quest From Kieran [Difficulty: Medium - Very Hard]
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2023, 09:10:55 PM »
It's been a while and there's an LP now. So if anybody is curious as to the official solutions, here's an official solution replay pack.

I recommend only watching these after your own solve, but of course you can do whatever you like. Be warned: once seen, a solution can never be unseen.

Offline mobius

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Re: Quest From Kieran [Difficulty: Medium - Very Hard]
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2023, 11:44:00 PM »
It's been a while and there's an LP now. So if anybody is curious as to the official solutions, here's an official solution replay pack.

I recommend only watching these after your own solve, but of course you can do whatever you like. Be warned: once seen, a solution can never be unseen.

I would argue... the exact opposite. And I offer; [mobius, myself] as proof. I have solved a number of levels, one that comes readily to mind is Nepster's Devil's Right Hand; some years ago, at least 4 and have completely forgotten the solution. I tried recently, in the past year, to solve it and could not.
the solution is to simply have a defective memory like mine.   :laugh: :XD: :XD:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Armani

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Re: Quest From Kieran [Difficulty: Medium - Very Hard]
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2023, 03:24:51 AM »
And here's my set of solutions just in case!
It's fun to watch through the author's intended solution replays.
Some are same as mine but others are totally different!
My newest Neolemmix level pack : Lemmings Halloween 2023 :D 8-)

About Armani: Armani's Blog
My NL level packs(in chronological order):
  Lemmings Uncharted [Medium~Extreme]
  Xmas Lemmings 2021 [Easy~Very Hard]
  Lemmings Halloween 2023 [Easy-Very Hard]

Online kaywhyn

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Re: Quest From Kieran [Difficulty: Medium - Very Hard]
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2023, 09:29:38 PM »
Pack solved, so I'm posting my replays and feedback. Consider my replays a third set, in addition to Kieran's intended solutions and Armani's pre-testing ones :) Also, Kieran is already aware and has watched all my videos and commented on my solutions, and I'm quite happy to hear that he enjoyed my LP very much, but in case anyone else is interested, I did an LP of QFK:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsCKWtecx-XJuzUUUjZC1K-. Enjoy! :P

General Feedback

QFK is Kieran's pack for NL. Work on the pack actually began back in 2017, back in the days of Old Formats NL and been stalled and resumed at various times. It has since been ported over to New Formats NL, and was finally officially released earlier this year. Before the most recent version, the pack had 56 levels, but it now has 60 levels, with 4 ranks of 15 levels each. Various Lemmings Forums members have done some pre-testing, including Wafflem, Akseli, Ste Woz, WillLem, and Armani. I'm quite happy that Kieran was able to finally finish the pack and release it, even if it took a long time.

A warning about this pack: The pack already starts off quite high in the difficulty! Do not go into the pack thinking the first rank Fun levels will be your typical Fun-like L1 levels. With few exceptions, the entire pack is puzzly and will be sure to test your solving abilities. QFK is the most recently released pack that only uses the classic 8 skills and no NL features. However, don't be fooled thinking that the pack will be easy because it only uses the classic 8 skills. Though advanced tricks aren't really needed, many of the levels are small-medium in size, with a few that are huge, with solutions that tend to be very well-hidden, resulting in very deceptively difficult puzzles. There are some critically acclaimed classic 8 skills level packs that still manage to be difficult, such as Nepsterlems and Lemmings Stampede. As a result, QFK really reminds me of these two packs due to the similar nature of using only the classic 8 skills, most levels being small-medium in size, and deceptively difficult levels. To this in perspective, with respect to L1, even in the Fun rank it already starts off around mid-late Tricky/early Taxing difficulty and it only goes up from there. With respect to Nepsterlems, it starts around Planet difficulty, which is the third rank from that pack. I'm not entirely sure if it can be said that it goes up to Black Hole difficulty, especially as I'm only on the first level of that rank and have been stuck there for almost 3 years, but most definitely some levels go up to about Sun or even Neutron Star difficulty. However, Nepsterlems is definitely far harder than QFK, and probably about the same difficulty as Lemmings Stampede. Heck, QFK is probably just as hard or even a bit harder than Lemmings Migration, another great pack from several years ago that also just sticks to the classic 8 skills.

All of this is meant to be a compliment to Kieran for managing to make a level pack that's up there in the difficulty of the other level packs I've mentioned! :thumbsup: It's not a problem that it's a hard pack at all, as I've told Kieran that hard levels in Lemmings are the ones I prefer, but I like levels of all difficulties in the game. Rather, I was taken by complete surprise at how high the difficulty already is from the get-go even though I've played some packs that start off similarly, such as Ryemanni's Halloween 2017 pack. As someone once said to me, I tend to get the difficult parts of the solution down very quickly, but I seem to easily overlook the simple stuff.

Even then, it goes without saying that I still suggest putting in a warning about the difficulty, as the name of the first rank of Fun is definitely very misleading and nothing like the Fun levels of L1. I've already seen that Kieran has done so and hence I'm glad to see that he has gone with my suggestion :thumbsup: After going through the entire pack myself, I think the classified Medium - Very Hard difficulty is super accurate ;) It might even be more accurate to say that the levels are comparable to ONML difficulty rather than L1's. Needless to say, QFK does not mess around!

The saving grace with many of these levels are the generous save requirements, and hence most of the challenges come from finding a/the solution.

Fun Rank Feedback

Quite honestly, I found the first two ranks harder than the last two ranks, though Kieran and I have both acknowledged that some of the later rank levels are easier than intended because of backroutes. It just goes without saying that the difficulty currently is a bit wonky and all over the place in the first two ranks, but this of course isn't unique to Kieran, as pretty much every level designer/pack author runs into this problem of misjudging the difficulty of their own content. I myself am frequently a victim of this! The reason is simple: You as the author know what's intended, but others who play your levels/pack don't.

Even then, great levels in this rank! :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also Fun Rank Feedback

The second rank of the pack, the levels are a bit harder here than the ones in the previous rank. As a matter of fact, there were two levels in here that were roadblocks for me, though in one case there was one thing I completely missed that could had made my life much easier (Armani and I even did the start the same too! :laugh:), while in the second I simply went about the level wrong. Still, great levels here that I enjoyed as well! :thumbsup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Hard But Still Fun Rank Feedback

In the first six levels, the pack felt easy in contrast to the first two ranks being brutally difficult in several places. There's still the odd level or two that are hard in the rank, but for the most part the rank felt easy. Once again, some true gems!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not Fun Rank Feedback

Being the final rank, these are supposed to be the hardest levels of the pack, though honestly they weren't too bad :P That's because I ended up backrouting plenty of the levels and hence some are easier than intended as a result. Even then, the first two ranks still are harder than the last two IMO, though up until the last several in the second half of this rank, where they were definitely quite challenging.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thanks for QFK Kieran, I absolutely enjoyed playing through it and solving the challenges within. Like Armani, I too can recommend this pack to play, with the warning I already described on the high difficulty, as this is most definitely not a pack for beginners or for the faint of heart. The pack will definitely test you in ways you didn't expect it to!

I look forward to picking up your L2 pack again sometime and also trying out your L3 pack as well in the future, after I go through the base L2 and L3 games myself. I will for sure let you know when I have started playing through them, though you'll know due to the YT bell :thumbsup: Glad to hear you're doing well!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPMqwuqZ206rBWJrUC6wkrA - My YouTube channel and you can also find my playlists of Lemmings level packs that I have LPed
kaywhyn's blog: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5363.0