[✓][SUG] SuperLemmini Wish List

[Tsyu]

Just so you guys know, SuperLemmini does not and will never support direct drop. (And if I somehow do add it by accident, I will remove it.)

Maybe a better way is for untimed bombers (when enabled) to not be assignable to a lemming in its first 5 or so seconds after coming out of entrance hatch.  This would remove at least that difference that could affect solvability of level.  It doesn't completely remove it because depending on what other tools are available/enabled for skill assignments, and what other moves the solution requires and how precise they need to be, it may not be possible to assign skill to the lemming 5 seconds ago vs now, and vice versa.  But at least it closes an important gap where untimed bombers allow more opportunities to use them that timed bombers can't.

You do have a point there. I could make it so that if a lemming is assigned the bomber skill during the first approximately 5 seconds of spawning, it won't start exploding immediately but instead get a shorter timer first based on the lemming's "age." Then again, this might irritate players who aren't expecting the timer (because it never appeared before, except when nuking). What do you think?

[WillLem]

Just so you guys know, SuperLemmini does not and will never support direct drop. (And if I somehow do add it by accident, I will remove it.)

Fair enough. I'm guessing this is due to it not being an official game mechanic?

Maybe a better way is for untimed bombers (when enabled) to not be assignable to a lemming in its first 5 or so seconds after coming out of entrance hatch.

You do have a point there. I could make it so that if a lemming is assigned the bomber skill during the first approximately 5 seconds of spawning, it won't start exploding immediately but instead get a shorter timer first based on the lemming's "age." Then again, this might irritate players who aren't expecting the timer (because it never appeared before, except when nuking). What do you think?

I think the simplest and best way around this would be for bombers to always be timed (with a full 5-second timer) for the first 5 seconds of any level, regardless of the chosen option. So - if someone has enabled untimed bombers, the bombers will still be timed for the first 5 seconds, and will then be untimed thereafter.

That way, level creators never need to worry about using bombers straight from a hatch because it essentially won't be possible, and it makes bomber behaviour more predictable for all players.

Great to hear from you again Tsyu.

[ericderkovits]

yes. great to hear from him!

[ericderkovits]

Yes I would like to see backward framestepping as well as neolemmix has it. Not only Me and Willlem either. Also Ichotolot would like it I'm sure.

Having to replay a level from the start is very annoying when you make one tiny mistake. Especially in large levels. I know Icho get's frustrated at this replaying from the start when a mistake occurs, because I've seen him on his youtube channel get frustrated over this too.

Of course I would like to see these climber issues resolved, because climbers always get by one pixel terrain pieces, including crosses and wells. also climbers getting past 3 builder walls two it shouldn't have to take 4 to stop a climber getting past a builder wall. Then off course the external replay items where one can't always pass on replays when it's an external level. once in a while
I even can't see my own replay with an external level.

[ericderkovits]

Hey Tsyu, I and WillLem were wondering why one can't use the xmas sprites mod for just a single level. I know one can override it with music by putting it in the level.ini file. But it doesn't work when one puts the mods =xmas in a single level.ini file. Maybe if possible, you can make it, so one can have a pack that has some xmas levels in them so one can apply the xmas sprites mod
for just the xmas levels, instead of the entire pack.

[WillLem]

(The wish list previously in this post has been moved to the RetroLemmini release topic; some of the features have been implemented in RetroLemmini and SuperLemminiToo).

[ericderkovits]

I would like to some of the issues resolved with climbers (ie climber's climbing 1 pixel ceilings(ie reunion's field trip), resolve the climbers from climbing the 3 builder wall to match NL's, and
climbers climbing other 1 pixel pieces of terrain (IE: wells, crosses,etc) (many of my SL conversions I had to adjust for climber issues many times, especially reunion)

Also resolve the basher not being able to bash mild slopes(IE: again reunion field trip (had to add small piece of terrain to help with that, also reunion's Metropolis-again had to add 1 miner due
to basher couldn't bash a mild slope)

Also would like some of the traps to have smaller trigger spots (IE: especially the Shadow smasher traps, and the Egyptian ones; lemmings always have to be so far from the traps when building to get past them)

[WillLem]

I would like to some of the issues resolved with climbers
---
Also resolve the basher not being able to bash mild slopes

I'm not including this sort of thing in the wish list because these are physics-related issues. The wish list is general interface/quality of life stuff rather than specific bugfixing (FWIW though, I agree with these suggestions for physics changes; Bashers in particular clearly need a lot of attention from a physics POV).

Also would like some of the traps to have smaller trigger spots (IE: especially the Shadow smasher traps, and the Egyptian ones; lemmings always have to be so far from the traps when building to get past them)

This can already be done; since trigger spots are determined by the graphics files, it's a case of editing the graphics themselves to get the desired result. Obviously though, everyone's copy of that style would need to then be updated for it to remain community-consistent, which is where the problem lies: once a style has been released, there's no guarantee that people will make necessary updates to it. That's why NL has a style manager; maybe SL could benefit from this sort of thing as well.

[Tsyu]

Remove the need to extract assets from WINLEMM; Microsoft are now giving Lemmings away free, and other clones have been freely sharing the original assets for a while now with no consequences. This will make SuperLemmini a more attractive option for people, and will remove any potential initial hiccups getting the platform working

Are you referring to the one on the Microsoft Store that has a red logo and is distributed by "pcio.dk"? That's clearly just another fan game, not an official release from Microsoft (which wouldn't happen anyway since Lemmings is owned by Sony).

In any case, if you want SuperLemmini to no longer require the Windows version of Lemmings, you need to contact the original author of Lemmini, Volker Oth. His e-mail address (according to lemmini.de) is VolkerOth [AT] GMX [DOT] de. (And if we happen to live in that one universe where Volker does give the OK (which I highly doubt), I need to get it from him first-hand, whether from him directly or from his website.)

[WillLem]

Are you referring to the one on the Microsoft Store that has a red logo and is distributed by "pcio.dk"? That's clearly just another fan game, not an official release from Microsoft

I figured as much. However, whether it's official or not, it's right there on the Microsoft store and neither MS nor Sony appear to be concerned about it. I'd take this as a strong indication that the assets are OK to use.

Also, SuperLemmini is by far superior to this awful version on the MS Store; as far as I'm concerned, you've earned the right to use the assets by making a great Lemmings clone! But anyway...

you need to contact the original author of Lemmini, Volker Oth ... I need to get it from him first-hand, whether from him directly or from his website.

I have emailed him. With any luck, he'll give the OK. I know for a fact that the WINLEMM extraction process has put a number of potential users off playing SuperLemmini. It has also recently caused issues for me as well - I can't use SL on my Mac because it won't get past the "Patching files..." stage of the process (I suspect this could be a JDK compatibility issue, since that's the version of Java I have on my Mac).

[WillLem]

@Tsyu

Other that Timed Bombers, WinLemm assets and hotkeys (which you've already commented on), what are your thoughts on some of the other points? For instance, I know you've mentioned previously that backwards framestepping would be difficult to implement, but does that mean it won't be happening?

Also - would it be easier/better for you if these requests were made into separate [SUG] posts?

[Tsyu]

I know for a fact that the WINLEMM extraction process has put a number of potential users off playing SuperLemmini. It has also recently caused issues for me as well - I can't use SL on my Mac because it won't get past the "Patching files..." stage of the process (I suspect this could be a JDK compatibility issue, since that's the version of Java I have on my Mac).

I suspect the cause of your problem there is that Java's PNG writer doesn't have bit-for-bit-identical output across all Java versions. I at least know this is the case between the Windows versions of Java 8 and recent Java releases. At least this won't matter once mandatory Windows Lemmings resource extraction becomes a thing of the past.

Other that Timed Bombers, WinLemm assets and hotkeys (which you've already commented on), what are your thoughts on some of the other points? For instance, I know you've mentioned previously that backwards framestepping would be difficult to implement, but does that mean it won't be happening?

Regarding backward framestepping, I do intend to implement it eventually. It won't happen in the next version, though.


Now for my thoughts on some of the items on the wish list:

Display "In" (lems in hatch), "Out" (lems in level) and "Home" (lems that have reached the exit) on the panel

You mean where "IN" and "OUT" are currently displayed, albeit with different meanings? I can do that, although space may be a bit of a concern.

Full-screen mode

100% agreed! The problem is that I don't know how to do it. I remember toying with exclusive fullscreen mode (which Java does support), but I think I was unable to use dialog boxes and the menu bar while in that mode. Perhaps I would have better luck attempting a borderless fullscreen window...

"Hide menu bar" option (via an arrow button)

Considering the arrow keys are already assigned to other functions, I don't think that would be the way to go. (Or do you mean a button on the screen?) Still, I do agree that being able to hide the menu bar (or even getting rid of it altogether) would be a nice feature.

Remove the "External Levels" system altogether, and simply display all available levels in the level select menu (if they do not have an associated levelpack.ini file, display them in a separate folder called "Other Levels")

For this to happen, there would have to be a location dedicated to storing loose level files. (There's no way I will have SuperLemmini scan the entire disk for levels!)

I will comment on the remaining requests later.

Also - would it be easier/better for you if these requests were made into separate [SUG] posts?

You can make separate topics if you want--I don't really care.

[Proxima]

Display "In" (lems in hatch), "Out" (lems in level) and "Home" (lems that have reached the exit) on the panel

You mean where "IN" and "OUT" are currently displayed, albeit with different meanings? I can do that, although space may be a bit of a concern.

Don't keep the words "IN" and "OUT" but change their meanings; that's confusing. Also, "lems in level" is not a useful statistic, and "home" is only useful if the player remembers the save requirement.

The reason NL changed its statistics display is that the old display, inherited from L1, forced the player to remember the save requirement. The first step towards fixing this was "relative in counts", i.e. "IN" became (saved - required), so that if, for example, 40 must be saved, it starts at -40, and when it reaches 0 you know you have saved enough.

However, that isn't a full solution, because you need to know how many lemmings are available, so that you can work out how many you can afford to lose. Finally, the number still in the hatch is a useful statistic, so that you know when the last lemming will exit.

So the final solution was to display three statistics, each with an icon rather than a word so as to save space: a hatch icon for "number in hatch", a lemming icon for "number available" (i.e. hatch + out) and an exit icon for (saved - required).

You don't necessarily have to go down this road or imitate NL exactly, but I feel that if you make any change at all, it should be in the direction of player-friendliness

[WillLem]

I suspect the cause of your problem there is that Java's PNG writer doesn't have bit-for-bit-identical output across all Java versions. I at least know this is the case between the Windows versions of Java 8 and recent Java releases. At least this won't matter once mandatory Windows Lemmings resource extraction becomes a thing of the past.

Good shout; the latest JDK is more recent than the latest version of the JRE, so it makes sense that there may be some discrepancies in data handling.

Again, though, it's music to my ears that the resource extraction is being removed from SL

Regarding backward framestepping, I do intend to implement it eventually.

Another great song!

You mean where "IN" and "OUT" are currently displayed, albeit with different meanings? I can do that, although space may be a bit of a concern.

Here's a mockup I made, showing that there is in fact plenty of space to implement the suggestion:



Regarding Proxima's comments, I don't think icons are the way to go with this at all, since SuperLemmini's close emulation of the Amiga interface is one of its main appeals.

I also don't think that changing the meanings of "IN" and "OUT" is a problem either, because "HOME" has quite a clear meaning and all a player needs to do is look at "IN" and "OUT" and notice that these numbers change each time a lemming spawns. We could always Poll current SL users to see if there is general approval (or not) of this idea, anyway.

Finally, regarding "remembering the save requirement", this is where I do agree with Proxima that this could be a concern. SuperLemmini's title bar currently displays the save requirement as "Save 100% of 80 Lemmings" (much like Windows 95 Lemmings), which is obviously one way around this. However, since Fullscreen/Borderless mode is being talked about, it may be prudent to find a way to display the save requirement in the panel area. The simplest and most elegant way to do this would be to display a negative number next to "HOME," much like NeoLemmix does.

100% agreed! The problem is that I don't know how to do it. I remember toying with exclusive fullscreen mode (which Java does support), but I think I was unable to use dialog boxes and the menu bar while in that mode. Perhaps I would have better luck attempting a borderless fullscreen window...

I'm genuinely enjoying this music. Borderless window would be more than adequate if that's an easy workaround.

Considering the arrow keys are already assigned to other functions, I don't think that would be the way to go. (Or do you mean a button on the screen?) Still, I do agree that being able to hide the menu bar (or even getting rid of it altogether) would be a nice feature.

Yes, I did mean a "clickable button" on the screen as opposed to using the directional arrows as hotkeys.

Getting rid of it altogether may not necessarily be desirable, since it can be useful for directly accessing the level menu and configuration options from in-game (of course, if hotkeys could be assigned to these, then it does become redundant to some extent).

The main reason I suggested it being hideable is because it's a bit of an eyesore when screen recording SL. A "Show/Hide Menu Bar" button on the title bar would be enough to solve this.

For this to happen, there would have to be a location dedicated to storing loose level files. (There's no way I will have SuperLemmini scan the entire disk for levels!)

Hmmm. I've changed my mind about this since suggesting it. My main issue with the External Levels system is that replay files get jumbled up due to indexing; a level ID system could be enough to solve this, though, without having to lose External Levels as a feature.

I've also since learned that loading .lvl levels into SL externally in fact converts them to .ini, which is a super useful feature and should definitely stay. It could even be implemented as a "Convert levels to .ini" feature in the level menu - that's how useful it is!

[Proxima]

Regarding Proxima's comments, I don't think icons are the way to go with this at all, since SuperLemmini's close emulation of the Amiga interface is one of its main appeals.

But your IN-OUT-HOME proposal is also a deviation from the Amiga interface, and I honestly don't see the point. What advantage does it have over keeping things the way they are?