Author Topic: Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?  (Read 630 times)

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Offline Metallica

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Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?
« on: February 20, 2019, 01:10:01 pm »
How to make levels with gimmicks in neolemmix? Is there any addition or new version required? I can't find any gimmick option in neolemmix...

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2019, 01:28:59 pm »
No, you need an old version, NeoLemmix 1.43. You can use the links in my signature to my pack "Lemmicks", or even better to the thread "Ghost Lemmings", since the latter also includes a download of NeoLemmix editor 1.43 with all the graphic sets (the Lemmings 2: The Tribes graphic sets are a little hard to get for that old version otherwise).

The NeoLemmix developers discourage level creation for older versions, but eh, this is exactly what I repeatedly keep telling people is going to happen: New players find out about gimmicks and wanna toy around with them. :P
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2019, 03:10:22 pm »
... but eh, this is exactly what I repeatedly keep telling people is going to happen: New players find out about gimmicks and wanna toy around with them. :P

Nobody doubted that. That's why the older versions are still available.

The NeoLemmix developers discourage level creation for older versions,...

It is discouraged yes, but if people were strongly against it, the version wouldn't be available anymore. 

Contest wise: For official contests I just won't allow multiple versions of the same engine. Especially if I don't have the time and patience to set up and mage X-ammount of different versions during that. Also this will result in the playing phase being a bigger hassle for players as well.


Explanation for Metallica why gimmicks were culled in newer versions:

Back in the days the gimmick number exploded. There were numerous gimmicks with a lot of them providing neglegable changes, unfair elements (clock gimmick especially) or confusing elements. A few of them had a bit of possible puzzle potential, but still resulted in lots of extra code to maintain and more player confusion. I experienced this confusion first hand when I played some of the earlier gimmick packs. There was no way to reliably inform the player which gimmicks were active and for a lot of them what exact consequences they had.

As a result we decided to do a hard cut here, culling everything except the most valuable gimmick in most eyes: Zombies.
This resulted in less options, but also less player confusion, an easier maintainable code and a clearer game.

After that we focused on either new skills, tilesets and objects for new features.
We also discussed a feature in depth before to decide to simply add stuff. Example discussion questions:

- Does the new feature has a lot of puzzle potential, or is it just a minor gimmick?
- Is it easy to make the function of the feature clear to new users?
- Has the new feature a reasonable effort to code and maintain?

So new features have a higher quality now as a result. Code and gameplay wise.

In general the focus shifted more from quantity to quality and I think this fits the general mindset (of most people at least). There are even quite a few people who still prefer to restrict themselves to original skills and tilesets despite all the new features.

I hope this makes it clear why newer versions don't have the abundance of gimmicks anymore.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 03:20:44 pm by IchoTolot »

Offline Metallica

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Re: Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2019, 03:41:10 pm »
So, is it valuable to install the old version to play with gimmicks? (I understood I have the new v.)

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2019, 03:50:22 pm »
So, is it valuable to install the old version to play with gimmicks? (I understood I have the new v.)

You will have to decide that for yourself. If you absolutely want to play aound with some of these gimmicks, sure. Install the old version and try them out.

I can recommend Strato's gimmick pack "Lemmicks" for that. The topic should have a guide to set things up from what I recall. I recommend using a different folder for a 2nd version, so nothing gets mixed up.

You have to be careful though as the old version uses an entirely different format and also does not posses a lot of features the new version has.

Again, your decision. ;)

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Gimmicks in NeoLemmix?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2019, 01:02:44 pm »
Thanks for the shoutout, IchoTolot! ;) Indeed, I think I mentioned all the important differences in the "Lemmicks" thread, including how to change things like the selected skill jumping back to what skill was selected at a given frame when rewinding (this can be disabled in the settings). Lemmicks also contains multiple levels to get you accustomed to solid level sides.
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels