Author Topic: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x  (Read 6203 times)

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Offline Proxima

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Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« on: September 30, 2017, 09:12:57 pm »
Daunting 29 "Duality": moved decorative terrain above exit to prevent a backroute.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 09:26:21 pm »
Merge Flying Batteries: Will do for 0.9.1.

Merge old maps: Wow, thanks for the effort! I will add numbers of players. These maps already have overtime, the editor merely doesn't display it when number of players is 1. I'll leave the overtime values as they are. Will merge them into 0.9.1.



Multiplayer maps go into 0.9.1. I added player numbers and shortened some overtimes. I haven't built a Play Bridge 4p.

Duality will go into 0.9.1.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 01:51:01 am by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 01:53:08 am »
Everything before this post is in 0.9.1.



Path to Mahiman has a short route with precise jumping -- see attachment. Keep or redesign?

Re-sort Runaround? I feel it's the hardest in Quirky. Took Wafflem about 15 minutes even with chat help from who didn't play the level yet. Everything else in Quirky was faster and took almost no help.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 10:54:32 am by Simon »

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 11:41:43 am »
Path to Mahiman has a short route with precise jumping -- see attachment. Keep or redesign?

My observations concerning this are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't assess to what decision that finally amounts since I don't have experience in such things.

Edit: Not to doublepost: I generally think that it's ok for a maze level to have a short hidden route next to (the) longer more visible one(s).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 12:20:50 pm by Forestidia86 »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 01:47:19 pm »
Fix for "Path to Mahiman" attached.

Ordering change: Q38 The Runaround -> C10; Exit Stage Right -> C4; Rainbow Road -> Q38.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2017, 02:54:48 am »
Proxima's Mahiman will go into 0.9.2, along with the proposed reordering for Runaround.

I can't assess to what decision that finally amounts since I don't have experience in such things.

There is a lot of taste and personal opinion with these alternate routes. Can keep them or can remove them.

In the end, Proxima decides because he's pack maintainer. Ideally, we propose concrete ideas to help with the decisions.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2017, 02:19:39 pm »
Fix for "Eye of the Needle". I've narrowed the "chimney" the climbers go up at the start to make it less precise, jumpers -> 0 and runners -> 1 to remove recent backroutes.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 01:27:10 am »
Please post a replay for Eye of the Needle. I'd like to release today.

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Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 01:36:34 am »
In case of utter urgence I have posted a solving replay here. But I really don't know if it's intended.

Edit: Was backroute; got fixed in the post below.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 03:04:44 am by Forestidia86 »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 02:47:16 am »
This is quite a drastic change, but it may be the best way of doing it. I've put steel all along the top of the long platform in the middle.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 02:54:07 am by Proxima »

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 03:04:23 am »
Thanks, will use EyeNeedle from reply #14 in 0.9.4. I've added your covering replay to the replay database.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 03:25:25 am »
Edit: Was backroute; got fixed in the post below.

To be fair, your solution was so crazy and ingenious that I considered letting it stand as an alternative :lix-cool:

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2017, 09:22:39 pm »
Compression Method 2: SI reduced to 8 to alleviate long wait. Second hatch added so the low SI doesn't make the first part more fiddly.

Replay attached.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2017, 07:18:10 pm »
Taken for 0.9.6.

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Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2018, 02:30:56 pm »
I don't want to take that away from Proxima, but since I made them:
Two proposals for a fix to "Path to Mahiman" with solving replays.

There should be maybe a look if they really do what they are supposed to do and if they don't introduce obvious backroutes.

The replays are basically the replay to the old level, maybe there should be a look if it is intended.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2018, 04:32:39 pm »
I can't accept a fix that completely cuts off part of the maze. (Also, you got some of the pieces the wrong way round, so there were two blue pixels adjacent to each other :lix-tongue: ) The attached fix should do the job (and the old replay should still work).

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 05:46:45 am »
Will include Proxima's fix in 0.9.7. It solves with the replay for <= 0.9.5 in the proof collection. Nonetheless, thanks, Forestidia, for taking initialitive in proposing fixes.

Also, this is test post for Mindless's IRC bot announcements.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2018, 11:06:29 am »
Fix to Snowjump, with replay. This is a bit harder now so I'm thinking of bumping it up, along with Snowball Battle. Tentative reordering:

Q30 Snowball Battle -> C18
Q37 Snowjump -> C8
C4 Exit, Stage Right -> Q37
C8 Leap of Faith -> Q30
C18 Once You Pop, You Can't Stop! -> C4

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2018, 11:11:12 am »
I'll merge the fix to Snowjump.

With the reordering, I will wait until Proxima is happy with it in 1-2 weeks.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2018, 02:08:30 am »
The above reorderings are fine, and in addition, I want to reorder:

C14 A Soulful Bounding Leap -> D9
D9 Backslash -> D4
D4 A Towering Proposition -> C14

Also, fix for This Lix is Your Lix attached.

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2018, 04:12:04 am »
D4 A Towering Proposition -> C14

I found this level actually quite tricky. What is with "Alternative Route Required"? This is one of two levels in the pack so far that I really found overranked.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 04:55:35 am »
Yeesh, that level 8-) I never found the intended solution, and instead found a weird route using the trick of
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2018, 07:43:11 am »
Merged fix (add sawblade) for ThisLix.

I found this level [Towering Proposition] actually quite tricky. What is with "Alternative Route Required"? This is one of two levels in the pack so far that I really found overranked.

Yeesh, that level 8-) I never found the intended solution, and instead found a weird route using the trick of [...]

This doesn't answer the question whether ToweringProp or AltRouteReq moves. What level will move?

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2018, 01:04:09 pm »
Actually, after discussion in Wafflem's recent stream I'm considering downranking Stairs Bro instead of either of the above. What do you (Forestidia) think about that?

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2018, 01:24:51 pm »
Actually, after discussion in Wafflem's recent stream I'm considering downranking Stairs Bro instead of either of the above. What do you (Forestidia) think about that?

I personally got stuck in the Stairs level but that was only because I thought too complicated. The solution itself is not that bad so I think it is ok to downrank that level but maybe a higher Cunning number.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2018, 05:39:39 pm »
I agree to downranking StairsBro to late Cunning, as Forestitida suggests, and to move ToweringProp back to Daunting.

Furthermore, This Is a Stickup seems harder than early Daunting. I would move that to later Daunting. Has anybody else had so many problems with this level, too?

Based on all of Proxima's orderings above in the thread, I propose these changes.

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Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2018, 05:50:52 pm »
Furthermore, This Is a Stickup seems harder than early Daunting. I would move that to later Daunting. Has anybody else had so many problems with this level, too?

From the IRC:
[18:45] <Forestidia> Yeah, "This Is a Stickup" is a nasty level. One of the last I solved of that rank.

How I solved it, it was very finicky and I needed quite some time to find a working approach.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2018, 04:54:13 am »
Suggested changes are fine, but in addition:

D24 Round Trip -> D2
D2 Tribute to Benny Hill -> D13 (moving 14-23 up one place)

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2018, 06:59:22 am »
Reorderings up to here are implemented in 0.9.12. Thanks!

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2018, 01:19:21 pm »
Lovely 3 "Building Block Maze": increased SI to 50. Building takes time, so all lix still spawn before the route is complete. Slower spawn makes it easier to click on a lix facing the right direction, and if the player builds a < bridge towards the right exit, fewer will splat in the interval when the bridge is high enough but not yet connected, so the player does not feel under pressure (assuming they have understood how save requirement works by this stage).

We removed miners from L2 as they are not helpful there. Should we remove miners and diggers from L3 and L4 as well? Player might be confused when digger does nothing if assigned on the steel in L4. Digger is properly introduced in L8 "Climb to Freedom!", miner in L11 "Beneath the Lab". However, miner must be kept in L9 "Goblin City" for the 100% solution, and all skills should be present in L7 "Blocked by a Snowball" for the pattern.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2018, 01:42:21 am »
Included in 0.9.13!

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2018, 02:17:18 am »
This one wasn't too hard to fix.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2018, 02:37:31 pm »
I've earmarked the 2018-03-28 Waltzes for the next merge, especially since Forestidia found the intended route. I don't have much to show myself for the next version, therefore I had not yet planned a date. But I'll promise a next release on 2018-04-07 the lastest. :lix-grin:

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2018, 01:24:37 pm »
Backroute fix for Vicious/Down Among the Dead Lix. Removed one tile from the short platform directly above the exit.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2018, 02:02:07 pm »
Earmarked for next release. The old proofs still cover this DownAmong.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2018, 04:11:01 pm »
Another slight fix. Lowered some platforms so Forest's 3 bombers from the top-right no longer works.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2018, 05:24:08 pm »
This ("another slight fix") fails under the proof collection. I'll happily merge it once you give me a solving replay!

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2018, 05:28:29 pm »
Replay recorded on the new version.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2018, 05:32:38 pm »
Solves, thanks. Earmarked this DownAmong for next release.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2018, 06:12:50 pm »
Okay, one more slight change. I've lowered the long platform above the exit a little. My previous replay should still solve.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2018, 12:29:54 am »
DownAmong from 2018-04-15 solves with existing replays, thanks. Earmarked for next release.

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2018, 03:28:14 pm »
From the Other Side: Enlarged the gap containing the fire object. Replay also attached.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2018, 08:12:34 pm »
Forestidia found this backroute in Get Hype (first attachment).

I fixed the backroute: Level file is 2nd attachment, image of this level is 3rd attachment. Existing replay in the replay collection still covers this. Forestidia then found the intended solution.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 08:21:47 pm by Simon »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2018, 03:03:06 pm »
Fix for Two Towers / Continuum Hypothesis.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2018, 10:46:46 pm »
Fixes for CH earmarked for next release.

I'd like to reorder:
Feel the Pressure: Hopeless -> Daunting.
This is a Stickup: Daunting -> Vicious.
Evacuate the Sinking Ship: Vicious -> earlier Hopeless.

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Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2018, 06:53:47 pm »
Concrete proposal for the rerankings of previous post:
  • Feel the Pressure: Hopeless 13 -> insert as Daunting 9, before Merge Sort.
  • This is a Stickup: Daunting 33 -> Vicious 15.
  • Evacuate the Sinking Ship: Vicious 15 -> insert as Hopeless 7, before Crown Jewel Heist.
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Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2018, 07:15:01 pm »
Replay for Feel the Pressure attached. Intended/acceptable/backroute? I remember solving the Lemmix original without too much trouble (this level came from the very first forum contest), but the Lix version has a tighter save requirement and fixed spawn interval. It feels like mostly luck that the Lix emerge tightly grouped enough that only two die to the traps, so I wonder if I missed an intended trick to group them more tightly.

If my solution is acceptable, then yes, it's okay to move to early Daunting.

Offline Dullstar

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2018, 02:41:31 am »
I haven't checked it in the latest version, but I didn't see anything in the changelogs since the last version I have suggesting it's been changed, so...

Lix Potion Number Nine in Lovely doesn't require any actions to solve (0.9.17)! Is this intentional?

Assuming it's not, it should be possible to fix it by increasing the required save count from 40 to 41, or by adding one additional trap.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2018, 06:54:06 am »
In old Lix, the SI was higher on that level so you had to realise that you could set the SI to 4 and just wait. When Simon got rid of variable SI, we discussed the level and he argued for changing the initial SI to 4 to leave this solution in. It's still surprisingly easy to overlook.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2019, 04:10:56 pm »
Simon proposed to me that we adopt "Oblique Strategy" from mobius's set into the lemforum pack. After having solved the level, I like it and agree with the suggestion.

I suggest removing Daunting 19 "This is Too Much Stepping Stones" (which is honestly rather trivial) and inserting Oblique Strategy at the same place.

I'd like to replace the fennec hatches with sandstone hatches, since I prefer to use matching terrain, hatches and exit where possible.

Now that the "misc" folder exists, it would be a good idea to collect removed levels from lemforum and add them to one or more subfolders in misc, so that they don't disappear altogether.

One option is to have a subfolder for removed levels, like mobius's "Project Capybara" collection (we could even adopt that name?) Another possibility is to group levels by author, although some authors have only one or two levels to collect.

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2019, 04:30:21 pm »
I liked Oblique Strategy and think it should be part of the main pack as well. The question is if it is rather Vicious than Daunting.

I think it's good to have a folder for the culled levels, too. I've covered some of these levels in the current physics.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2019, 02:04:32 pm »
My hunch is to rank Oblique Strategy into Vicious, with late Daunting as second choice. But I haven't solved Oblique Strategy independently: While solving, I was discussing ideas with Forestidia, she had solved it herself already. Thus, I can't assess it neutrally.

I'm fine to cut either Stickup (nasty to execute) or Too Much Stepping Stones (looks very bland). I'd rank Oblique Strategy higher than Too Much Stepping Stones.

Proxima, only for completeness: What is your feeling about Dream the Impossible Dream? Forestidia told me that there are unfixable backroutes in it. Would Dream be a candidate for cutting too, or is it better -- even with the backroute -- than Stickup or Too Much Stepping Stones?

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Offline mobius

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2019, 11:49:08 pm »
I found this solution to Elixir which saves 1 jumper skill. I am uncertain to the intended solution cause geoo modified the level later after I originally made it. I remember years ago being stumped and watching the replay and sort of being blown away.

edit: oh yeah I could just watch the replay right now.... I sort of don't want to; in case this is a backroute; I want to solve it myself.
Couldn't resist and I looked :P
So in
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm curious if anyone thinks one solution is harder to find than the other.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 12:06:01 am by mobius »
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Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2019, 08:20:56 am »
I'm not sure if the save one jumper solution is much harder to find than the geoo one.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elixir has quite a few variants of solutions but they all are in some sense similiar. So it depends on what the key mechanic is supposed to be to decide if all are acceptable variants.

Offline mobius

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2019, 02:40:58 pm »
I'm not sure if the save one jumper solution is much harder to find than the geoo one.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Elixir has quite a few variants of solutions but they all are in some sense similiar. So it depends on what the key mechanic is supposed to be to decide if all are acceptable variants.

really? Can you elaborate on those other variants?
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2019, 03:17:03 pm »
We discussed this some time ago in another thread. You asked about other solutions (than Proxima's) and in the course of the discussion I posted 4 solutions. (Post one with two solutions, Post two with two further solutions)
Possible that there is overlap with geoo's, Proxima's and what you posted but don't know anymore.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline mobius

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Re: Lemforum pack changes, Lix 0.9.x
« Reply #56 on: August 19, 2019, 12:24:32 am »
oh thanks! Sorry; totally forgot about all those replays. :lix-blush:

It doesn't matter to me btw; the level seems good as is. :thumbsup:
"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakwin Rinzai

"Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man"
-the Dude