Path to Mahiman has a short route with precise jumping -- see attachment. Keep or redesign?
My observations concerning this are:
It seems rather tricky to get to the idea to do this jump that way. In this context it seems trial and error to get to know from where to jump if you don't have utter knowledge of the physics.
But:
There are not that much possibilities from where to jump there and with framestepping they are all in your control. If you know how to do it it is actually not that hard to pull off.
A danger could be that someone tries this without framestepping and gets stuck retrying because the direct jump from the edge fails only by a bit.
The general trickiness is to realize that you have to do an indirect jump, so it's a more advanced and complex use of the bouncing physics (, which is not necessarily bad).
But to try such things you usually already have more advanced knowledge I think.
I can't assess to what decision that finally amounts since I don't have experience in such things.
Edit: Not to doublepost: I generally think that it's ok for a maze level to have a short hidden route next to (the) longer more visible one(s).
Yeesh, that level 8-) I never found the intended solution, and instead found a weird route using the trick of
dropping the crowd and using the knockback from an exploder to avoid them splatting.
Forestidia found this backroute in Get Hype (first attachment).
I fixed the backroute: Level file is 2nd attachment, image of this level is 3rd attachment. Existing replay in the replay collection still covers this. Forestidia then found the intended solution.
The backroute turns every lix in the first tree with an exploder.
The 3 trees have different treetops. This is necessary to fix an almost-backroute where the lixes get bunkered in the rightmost tree.
The intended route digs in the first tree to turn the last lix. This must remain possible. Forestidia's br1 turns everybody in this tree. This must be prevented. It's very delicate to allow one and not the other. :lix-frown:
-- Simon
I found this solution to Elixir which saves 1 jumper skill. I am uncertain to the intended solution cause geoo modified the level later after I originally made it. I remember years ago being stumped and watching the replay and sort of being blown away.
edit: oh yeah I could just watch the replay right now.... I sort of don't want to; in case this is a backroute; I want to solve it myself.
Couldn't resist and I looked :P
So in geoo's solution its very similar but he used the extra jumper *in place* of the climber so he has 1 climber left over.
I'm curious if anyone thinks one solution is harder to find than the other.
I'm not sure if the save one jumper solution is much harder to find than the geoo one. The save one jumper solution uses in some sense one trick more, the other one has therefore timing.
Elixir has quite a few variants of solutions but they all are in some sense similiar. So it depends on what the key mechanic is supposed to be to decide if all are acceptable variants.
We discussed this some time ago in another thread. You asked about other solutions (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2797.msg68273#msg68273) (than Proxima's) and in the course of the discussion I posted 4 solutions. (Post one with two solutions (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2797.msg68275#msg68275), Post two with two further solutions (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2797.msg68281#msg68281))
Possible that there is overlap with geoo's, Proxima's and what you posted but don't know anymore.
You can even exploit the flinging of the exploder to save a floater.
Solved Another Funeral with the intended route. Excellent puzzle, thanks to mobius for stumping me for a year!
I still believe that it should uprank by at least 20 levels. The early half of Daunting seems easier than Another Funeral. Possibly it should uprank by 40 to 60, but I'd have to revisit Vicious to compare.
The timings look at first like they won't work.
Many exciting ideas fall short only late during play. I had several wrong routes; given either an extra jumper, or an extra builder, or an extra digger would have easily salvaged the wrong routes.
The final guiding light for me was to question assumptions about where to use the 2 bashers. That's not an obvious skill to second-guess: You never run out of bashers, but wrong routes will always run out of something else.
-- Simon
Regarding "The Last Laugh"... going into a spoiler tag since I don't know whether Simon has solved it:
I don't know what the original version of the level was like, but considering the Lix version on its own merits: the trick of using the jumper-climber to keep a lix busy is a nice linchpin that doesn't appear elsewhere, and is very well-hidden on this level, making it satisfying to solve. I would definitely argue for keeping it even if this solution is nothing like what was originally intended.
fair enough. If people really like this level that much, then leave it as is. :thumbsup: I am a bit doubtful of this; Simon played the level on stream the other day [and was on totally the wrong track, but seemed confident he could make it work; it was very fiddly, I don't like those kind of things in my levels.
but that may change when he solves it. IDK. I could make some alterations I suppose if that was appropriate but I don't feel like doing that in this case. Let's get some more input before making a final decision. I'll probably end up not doing anything with the level then.
I like The Last Laugh, too. But the other exit is reachable, see attachment in this post (https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3474.msg72920#msg72920)
The Last Laugh; I made that fix. Also removed a basher. Hopefully the other exit looks possible but not *too* possible.
I don't like the idea of people spending a ton of frustrating time getting very very close to a solution that's not right.
Also update for Cornerstone.
spoiler: the extra bashers can be used to stall and ease the timing. That could be intentional.
Some responses to Forestidia's replays:
This is about managing the destructive as well as constructive skills and is in the end a timing issue. Saw the main problem rather fast, finding a solution for it lasted some time.
was that a yay or nay?
Your solution is close but misses one of the key elements of the solution. TBH; imo this level's solution is all about a tight time limit and precision and as such, not sure it really fits in the pack anymore. Don't know how to remove this backroute either. [adding a trap at the spot where she goes doesn't fix it]
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reguarding: Five for Fighting... I'm debating altering this to enforce the solution to it's sister level, but that will make it harder(?) thus needing to be moved/upranked(?). RoundTheWheel liked this one a lot. (the harder version that is.)
<Forestidia commented on this level too but I lost the comment.>
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Theresa falls up the stairs: this level was plagued with backroutes. @Simon have you solved it yet? Would you or anyone mind testing it sometime, I just have a feeling backroutes may remain. I have another level idea in mind which uses the same trick but looks quite a bit different, if the need be.
Weeble solved Theresa intended. I guess I won't worry too much about it.
Some questions/suggestions regarding some random levels:
feel free to disagree, these are only minor adjustments based on feedback/watching replays and stuff.
-does "Hard to Port" feel tedious? 30 climbers is kind of a lot. I could try making everything a bit smaller and reduce lix count to cut back the tedium???
-I hadn't noticed the changes to "Path to Mahiman" until now, really nice! It's much better puzzle now. Suggestion: change title to "The Lixyrinth" (Lemmyrinth was the original title, I don't know why I wanted to change that honestly. Another one of those dumb decisions I made...
-Regarding Gr8 Escape: Weeble had quite a time playing this level, maybe we should keep this one?
My thinking for removal was; Gr8 Escape is a challenging level no doubt. But I am bit surprised people have a real hard time with it nowawadays. Really there's one baisc trick and once you see that/if you know it the levels not bad at all.
Where as I think Shvegait's level is of similar nature but less "trick" and more some logical pathing necessary.
-Narbacular Drop; added an unnecessary runner to ease timing, would this add a backroute? I doubt it; decoration embellished a bit. No change to the solution.
-tiny backroute fix for Tinker Tailor Soldier Lix, found by weeble I think
sorry for forgetting to upload the replay with it.
runners are not needed but there to make timing easier. Hopefully this doesn't allow backroutes.
some comments after watching Raymond's replay:
He solved Soulful Bounding Leap kind of weirdly but I don't mind this. I can't even remember exactly what the intended solution was but it's fine. I'm more concerned if it felt fiddly or annoying. And the fact that when he was trying to jump on top of the blocker; it looked like it should've worked several times when it didn't. Don't really understand that. [this isn't a problem with this level per say, but how jumpers or blockers work???]
regarding some other levels like Slipping which has come up a bunch lately; I'm okay with multiple solutions here; still looks good to me.
Watching Ramon's playthough, earmarking backroute fixes for Wait Why is There a Tree and (oddly), Chasm.
Chasm's intended route is exactly as Ramon played it. I found something that skips the cuber on the bottom, which is part of how I wrote this level. I think the fix isn't too tough (Ramon's route should work while my backroute shoudn't) and that this won't change the level difficulty relative to other levels in the pack.
Earmarked Theresa for 0.10.5. Thanks for fixing and covering it!
mobius: Tinker Tailor still has the same backroute even with your fix from 2023-01-17. Find my replay attached.
I propose these two backroute fixes for your Chasm and WhyTree.
For WhyTree, you described exactly what you wanted. I've put the 3rd rim as high as possible: You can reach it with a single builder from the top of the red bricks, and the builder's last slab connects exactly to the rim's bottom from below. I'll include this WhyTree fix unless you object explicitly.
For Chasm, it's a feeble guess, I won't include it unless you tell me that it's okay.
-- Simon
I agree with Ramond that behavior looks very odd.
Either one of two things should be true:
1) the basher keeps going until he falls into the gap and (presumably a] stops bashing, or b] continues to bash at a lower level OR
2) she shouldn't be able to bash that in the first place
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I'll try to take a closer look at the level in question. There's nothing I have to add; the fix looks fine to me.
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Changed my mind and I've fixed The Last Laugh OK can anybody get to the other exit now? ? ? :lix-dead::lix-dead:
same replay should work