jLemmings (disappointing)

[Proxima]

Cheapo ugly?  ::

The graphics in the default styles are pretty ugly, which is why I've bothered to make styles using the originals.

[Mindless]

I'm glad someone agrees with me on that.

Apparently, unless I'm missing something, in order to change the ugly Lemming-like creatures, you'd have to recompile the .jar with the new graphics.

[ccexplore]

The graphics in the default styles are pretty ugly, which is why I've bothered to make styles using the originals.

I thought Cheapo's Blue/Crystal style was decent though, and maybe also the Columns style.  I have to agree I'm not too enthusiastic about its Pink style.

[ccexplore]

I'm glad someone agrees with me on that.

Actually, Ahribar was talking about the graphics in the styles that came with Cheapo, whereas I thoght you were talking about the Cheapo intro screen where you select levels/sets, which you can't even customize.

[Mindless]

I was using the intro screen as an example of what I didn't like.

[ccexplore]

So there isn't anything about any of the Cheapo graphics that you at least tolerate?

[Proxima]

I thought Cheapo's Blue/Crystal style was decent though, and maybe also the Columns style.  I have to agree I'm not too enthusiastic about its Pink style.

I also thought they were OK until it became possible for me to design levels with the original graphics..... though the Columns style is perhaps the least crap. One thing I do like, though, is the exits (except of course the Fire one); in my new styles I've combined the design of the Cheapo exits with the colouring of the originals to get the perfect combination

[ccexplore]

Wow, there's no accounting for taste I guess.

I don't see anything special about the Cheapo exits at all.  Aren't they all the same except for the palette?

At least the original graphics have some variety in their exits (ok, not a lot, but you can identify at least 3 distinct styles:  dirt/pink, column/crystal, and fire).

It's your styles so I guess we can't make you do stuff, but I think it would suck that you would give everyone the opportunity to use all these original graphics but deny them the original exits.  I hope you include both styles of exits in your styles.

[ccexplore]

At least the original graphics have some variety in their exits (ok, not a lot, but you can identify at least 3 distinct styles: &#A0;dirt/pink, column/crystal, and fire).

Oops, my memory was a little rusty.  The pink style is distinct enough shape-wise from the dirt style, it is really another exit style.  So it's actually 4 and not 3.

[ccexplore]

Wow, my memory is really rusty then.  Seems like Cheapo's exits aren't just the same exit in different color schemes after all.  X_X

Anyway, I sort of see a little bit of where you come from with Cheapo's exits.  It seems that the stairway part of the exit is more prominent and has more clarity in the Cheapo graphics then the DOS ones.  But somehow the Cheapo ones seem to look more pixelated to my eyes for some reason.

[0xdeadbeef]

Since my humble efforts to recreate Lemmings in Java were referenced here, I thought I should maybe comment on this.

I wouldn't bash the jLemmings team at all. Agreed, they're missing a nice look at the moment. This doesn't mean however, it won't evolve into a great remake. Well, probably it won't, but that can't be decided yet

About copyright issues: I'm not even sure if I can ever release my remake into public since I'm a little afraid of legal actions by the copyright owners. BTW: Who holds the copyright for lemmings at the moment? Sony?
Surely, before releasing it, I will try to contact the copyright holder. Then again, I have little to no hope, that I will get any reply at all.  So I can understand that the jLemmings team doesn't use the original gfx.

Apart from that I surely won't take anything and I don't need anything from jLemmings. It's true that my approach looks a bit like beeing the opposite of jLemmings'. Then again you should be aware, that up to now I did a lot of things that weren't really fun like ripping gfx, converting all the levels to a text file format, creating infrastructure, collision masks and definition files. I didn't do it this way because I'm afraid of the "real" coding, but because I'm looking forward to make the lemmings walk so much and I fear that if I did this first, I wouldn't have the strength to continue with the not so interesting stuff.

Also, if I look at the screenshot posted, it looks like the jLemmings guys don't intend to recreate the original levels. Probably the levels are all just one image instead of being constructed of tiles. And drawing the levels/animated objects etc. was a major piece of work (for me at least).
As far as my planning goes, the whole lemmings state machine should be much less code and effort. Well, not considering the tweaking to make it "feel" like lemming of course.

And just to tease you, here's another screenshot from my project. You might note that I just integrated the cursor...
http://home.arcor.de/0xdeadbeef/rocky.png

[ccexplore]

Oh, so these were the high-resolution Win95 graphics then.

Damn they really do look nice. B) Ahribar, does your "original graphics" look more like the Win95 one or the DOS one?

[0xdeadbeef]

[EDIT]
Oops, this wasn't a question to me at all. Err, then take it as additional information
[/EDIT]

I'm going for a 640x400 resolution (the windowed mode may be a little more widescreen as on the screenshots, which are 800x400), so I use the Win95 "big" graphics. I guess the "small" graphics set should be pretty much the same as in the Amiga/DOS versions.
Then again, the "big" gfx set of the Win95 version is only partly a hires recreation. Most things are just scaled to the double size making them look quite ugly (especially the outer border).
For some of these tiles, I did some pixel painting to make them look nicer, but as there are so many "ugly" tiles, I gave up quite early. Maybe later on, if the programming is (ever) done, I will come back to this issue.


[EDIT2]
Ok, I just downloaded and tried jLemmings. Forget what I said about you can't tell the quality by the gfx since it doesn't matter anyway: the gameplay is FAR from being acceptable:

No real diggin/bashing (doesn't remove bricks), no object animation (water, traps, exit decoration), not even the cursor changes when it's above a lemming. Bashing most of the times doesn't work, the whole climbing/bashing/building etc. is not nearly working like it should.

The levels are not just bitmaps as I first suspected: also objects can be placed, but this is much simpler than in the original game (no paint modes like "draw on visible", "don't overdraw", also no flipping or removal). There seem to be no traps or "no brick" objects apart from entry/exit btw. So I it won't be even possible to recreate a simple standard Lemmigs level near 100% with this even if the (non animated part of the) level was provided as one large bitmap.

Also, if this in the alpha version and was compiled in May 2004, the chancesare quite low, that there'll be a beta soon.

And about copyright: I don't think that they would care, since there's a lot copyrighted material in the JAR file: they have the original WAVs (from the Win95 version?), ripped Mario-Gfx and also some Disney characters in an "about" screen.

[Proxima]

Wow, I didn't realise this would generate so much controversy

I've uploaded the exits I used for the five Lemmings 1 styles so you can have a look: http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/exits.gif

If you really don't like them..... I guess I could make a poll and ask other people whether they prefer the originals.

[Proxima]

Oh, so these were the high-resolution Win95 graphics then.

Damn they really do look nice. B) Ahribar, does your "original graphics" look more like the Win95 one or the DOS one?

Um....... I haven't seen either so I can't tell you Here's a screenshot of a whole level in one of my styles, if it will help you compare: http://www.geocities.com/zarathustra47/Teaser.gif

I can put more screenshots up if you like, just tell me what you want!