Author Topic: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld  (Read 14195 times)

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Offline namida

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[PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« on: September 14, 2013, 09:31:44 am »
Using RPG Maker VX Ace, and since I'm no artist, I'm using default or freely-available graphics. The storyline is... well, not horrible (it's definitely no FFX-2), but it's nothing overly amazing either. The real shining point is the gameplay; the battles will give even good RPG players a run for their money.

The battle system is closely based off Final Fantasy 10, but the difficulty is... yeah, let's just say it puts FFX to shame and leave it at that. xD I'm sure you guys can at least partly guess from my Lemmings levels the sort of things I might come up with.

The first few bosses are more or less easy things to get you into it (though the 2nd and 3rd have been reported to give some people trouble), the 6th boss is where you really have to start thinking. =P

Map images. Spoiler-free. (click to show/hide)


This game is now complete and is only being updated to fix bugs.

Current version: V026b
Fresh download: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Am6NTdy4vnPXhjBxJ5DdppjLWtil
Steam Workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1252703211

It requires the RPG Maker VX Ace RTP, which you can get here: http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/download/additional/run-time-packages
Make sure you get the VX Ace one, not the standard VX one.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 02:19:30 am by namida »
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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I have to say it's pretty decent and well made. :thumbsup: It is very much in the overall style of the FF games back in the SNES era, great for the nostalgia factor.  Though I have to say I haven't seen the wraparound dungeons before in those games (granted, I'm not that big a player of RPG games), that is kinda innovative.

Interesting that the choice is made to make thing suddenly more difficult at the 6th boss, given all the discussion we've had around here about the diffculty curve in the original Lemmings levels (as in, these levels should've come before/after those levels, yada yada).  Seems like you're going for the opposite here then?

I know you said you don't visit here often, but I'm sorry, I'm not going to open a new account in some random board just to post about the game, so if I find any bugs or issues I'm just gonna post here.  Here's one:  see screenshot.  At the point in game when you're going up the mountains, if you talk to the boss characters (ie. the blond chick next to the white-hair dude) instead of to Harley (which would normally trigger the line of dialog leading to the boss battle), the game freezes.

======================

Since you brought up Android and iOS on another thread, I'm curious whether any free RPG makers out there currently provide cross-platform support particularly with mobile platforms such as at least Android.  You may well reach a much larger user base if people can download and play the game on those platforms as well.

Offline namida

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Just got GTA5 so playing that at the moment, but I did have a quick look at the code. There should be literally no difference - talking to Harley moves you to the space to the left of him, makes you face upwards (if you aren't already) then activates a switch. Talking to Brianna directly, since yu're already in that space and facing up, directly activates the switch. I'll have to have a closer look obviously.

The difficulty curve is fairly constant (with, just like in my Lemmings levels, the occasional extra-hard or extra-easy thrown in); it'd be more accurate to say the 6th boss is the first extra-hard one. However, more than half of the bosses before him also serve as somewhat of a test that you're getting the idea of the mechanics than meant to be actual challenges (though Craig + Brianna have been known to give people trouble). It can also depend on your playstyle - for example, at one point there's two bosses more or less in a row, we'll just refer to them with the initals DR and DT for here. Those who stay relatively low-level and rely extensively on strategy will have quite a hard time with DR due to his combination of punishing you for piling on damage too quickly (which a higher level party is more able to handle) and having Auto-Regen. On the other hand, brute forcing your way through DT is practically impossible; if your strategy is really bad he can even take down a Level 99 party, though that'd require you to be pretty bad... more realistically though, a player who has some understanding but isn't thinking much, DT would probably beat their Level 50-ish party. (Intended level for that point is around level 30, though I've done both of them at only slightly over half of that).

I don't know of any dedicated RPG Makers for mobile OSes. Multimedia Fusion 2 is a general game-making program that these days supports most platforms for output (including iOS, Android and even Xbox 360), but it's not free - and the compilers for anything other than Windows are an extra cost on top of the program itself. It's also not the best suited to RPGs, though it's most certianly possible to make.

I'm guessing you don't use Facebook either? The page there is generally the best way to contact me. But if not, just post it here, I do come here at least once in a while even at the times when I disappear for ages (I often don't post for like a year, but I still visit a few times througout that) so I'll see it eventually.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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Thanks for the info.  I have spoilered the first boss that gave me some trouble (but I eventually did beat).  Sounds like a case of needing to level up more, or is that more or less how you expect this one to go?  (Unfortunately at this early point in the game, leveling up is pretty boring and grindy I have to say.)  Or did I miss a trick or two that would've made things go a lot smoother?

Quote from: highlight to read
With the Transient, my party of 4 was originally at levels 7 and 8.  Eventually I raised their levels slightly to 8 (and 9 for the black mage characters, since it only took a small amount of additional EXPs after the other characters all hit level 8).  I also bought and equipped everyone with Agi+5% since the boss has higher agility and with its rather powerful attacks (and apparent immunity to almost all statuses except from the 4 "softening sand" given to you for this battle), I need my party to squeeze in as many turns as possible.  Even then, it is tricky when my party's HP hovers around 300s-400s (though thankfully one character is more like 600s)--the attacks being received easily takes out half the HP of the afflicted even with the best of preparation.

I had the two Sarin characters use their "stand ground" ability (counterattack) to increase damage potential especially when Trauma comes and everyone need to defend.  This works especially well as one of them has a regular physical attack which is the highest damage I can afflict, at slightly over 200 HP damage to the boss (and double that if I luck up on a critical hit).  Otherwise the black mage character deals out okay (and not status-dependent) damage with elementals at around 100 HP.  I also noticed that Phoenix Down revives a character to half his/her max HP, so in many cases it works out better to just let a single character (especially the one with highest HP) die and get revived.  With that in mind I stocked up a little on Phoenix Downs (Potions are plentiful with random battles right outside town at the swamps).

Ultimately I think the biggest source of difficulty is the high damage dealt, compare with the meager means I have for healing.  White mage's Cure can't target-all AFAIK, and that character isn't especially agile, so you really need Potions to deal with that big Trauma attack every 3 turns.  Potions heal only 75 compare with the 150+ damage from Trauma even with Defend.  And it's not like the shop (nor random battles) is offering better items like Potion Plus, so it isn't even a case of buying/stealing better items (yes, by that point you do pick up one or two Potion Plus and Elixirs, but I'd rather not use them so soon if I can).

At this early point in the game, there seems to be such a limited (and relatively crappy) selection of items, abilities and equipment, I think my options are just rather limited in how to deal with this battle, so it is challenging but not necessarily in a fun way for me.  I will grant you the possibility that maybe there is supposed to be a more specific pattern on how to attack the boss that might led to less damages received?  If such a magic sequence of moves exist I certainly haven't found it, beyond the general pattern to help you Defend for Trauma.

I do have to admit though, it is satisfying to beat the boss with all these things stacked against you.  I even manage to (barely) keep everyone alive at the final move so that all 4 can get their share of AP gains.

Offline ccexplore

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I have played through a few more bosses at this point (though I don't think I've yet reached the DR/DT point you mentioned), and I can definitely say that those bosses were easier to handle compare with that earlier "T" one I had trouble with.  Not easy mind you, but nowhere as unbalanced as the T battle.  Granted, I suppose occasional out-of-whack difficulties is intended and to be expected for your game.  I'm sure for example most people would get stuck at that dungeon where your options are math vs mapping out a maze (thankfully I know my math and much appreciate having that "shortcut" available), so maybe the extra difficulty of that early boss is a good warning anyway on what's to come. :-\ :evil:  Still curious to know whether I was more under-leveled than intended for the T.

I ran into a few more (relatively minor) bugs as well, but it'd probably be more efficient if I wait until I finish the game before posting about them.

Offline namida

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He is quite a tricky one. While he CAN be beaten at even lower levels than you did at, I'm generally around the Level 9-10 mark for him (keep in mind I generally play RPGs, including my own, somewhat underlevelled), while others generally report being around level 12.

He does have one noticable weakness, though it's something that you'd have to resort to "try everything" to find due to his Scan immunity - kind of there as a reward to people who bother to do that (this isn't always the case with every boss, but some do reward you for trying obscure methods that might not be expected to work). Specifically in this case,

Quote from: highlight to read
He is vunerable to Zombie - Tara and Leanna can learn Zombie Attack at level 15+, while Amanda can learn the spell Curse at any level. This allows you to use Harley's healing spells to deal some extra damage if you get spare turns. However - trying "zombie, elixir" to one-hit him won't work; he's immune to percentage-based damage (as are most bosses).

Beyond that, it's a matter of balancing attack and defence well, and taking care on where exactly you apply your healing. There's also...

Quote from: highlight to read
one optional boss that can be fought before him (yes, I have these placed all throughout the game, not just towards the end), who drops a Hyperlixir (fully heals all members' HP and MP). This can be quite useful for that fight, though it's a very rare item so if you obtained it you may want to save it for later. By the time you're up to Transient, the optional guy isn't really that hard to beat.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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I ran into a few more (relatively minor) bugs as well, but it'd probably be more efficient if I wait until I finish the game before posting about them.

Except I think I will mention now this bug I'm running into now rather than wait later, as it is frequently affecting me during my current point in the game, though perhaps others with different playing styles will be much less affected:  Escaping from a battle scrambles the party formation.  No big deal when there are no more than 4 members in the party, but once you hit 5 or higher, it means you end up with characters who aren't in battle swapped with those who are.  (For example, if current formation is A,B,C,D,E so that E is not in battle, after escaping out of battle back onto the map, you likely end up with something like eg. E,C,D,B,A [exact order likely depends on the exact order the characters escape with, I guess], so that A is no longer in battle while E is.

Since you can switch characters in-battle without sacrificing turns, I can live with this but it's an issue that can really get in your face.

Offline namida

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I'm aware of it, and it'll be fixed in the next major update, ie V018. (I generally only fix things that are either game-breaking or VERY simple in minor updates (017A, 017B etc).) Thanks for pointing it out all the same.

Just in case you hadn't realised, you can also re-order out of battle using the Formation option in the menu. Obviously not an ideal solution to be doing it after every battle, but it's at least there for before bosses.

That bug was unfortunately a side effect of the way I handled in-battle switching - or rather, fixing a glitch with Escape that got introduced when in-battle switching was added. Hence why it's not fixed in a very early version - the in-battle switching was only introduced in V016.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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I found a few beneficial bugs in the meantime.  Due to their benefits to the player, I'm rather tempted to keep it all secret until I finish the game, but ultimately come to my senses and decide to mention them now in the same way that backroutes should not be kept secret from the level author.  I'll just finish the game without downloading any resulting updates (for now, unless there're new content). :evil: :P

Quote from: spoiler highlight to read
1) In-battle switching advances the character's status (eg. "Dark", "Silence") progression.  In other words, for statuses like "Dark" or "Silence" which are temporary and clear themselves after a few turns, you can simply in-battle switch the affected character back and forth a few times (~4-5 I think) and that would eventually result in the status removed, without losing the current turn at all (since you don't lose a turn by switching).  This effectively gives you a free way to cure those statuses.  Of course it doesn't work if the status is non-temporary.  Moreover, status like "poison" which regularly inflicts damage per turn, will inflict such damage during each in-battle switching as well.  I haven't tried "regen" status yet but I suspect it will likely behave similar, potentially giving you a free way to immediately and fully replenish your HP.

Of course, allies and monsters not involved in the switching are unaffected.

2) The stat boosts provided by Vince's special abilities (eg. Adrenaline, Meditate) will remain on the character post-battle (you can even see them in the menu screen outside of battle) if the character escaped during battle (either by "Escape" command or by Vince's "Flee" special ability).  On the other hand, if a character wasn't in battle when the battle ends (eg. you switched him out of battle, and then the battle ends by escape), he does lose those stat boosts he may have had during battle.  This is how I know one way or another, it is a bug and not intended.  The bottom line is that you can basically stat-boost up to 4 characters in your party before actually going into the next battle.  And yes, those boosts are saved (at least it look that way) when you save the game at a savepoint.

3) Arguable whether it is bug or just a sneaky trick intended for player to discover on their own, but because you can Escape from battle with an optional boss, if that optional boss has an item that can be stolen with Alicia's Theft ability, you can repeatedly steal and escape to get unlimited number of that item (until you defeat the boss of course or reach the max limit on number of items, or unless the boss is so quick and powerful, it kills your entire party after stealing without giving you any chance to escape).  In one sense, it's no different than the fact that you can do the same through random battles to accumulate such stolen items, so that's why I'm not convinced it should be called a bug.  On the other hand, the game (at the point I'm in so far, anyway) definitely depicts an optional boss as a singular character, unlike random battles where the monsters are presumably different members of the same species from battle to battle, and so it doesn't feel like you are stealing from the same entity with random battles.

Offline namida

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Quote from: spoiler highlight to read
1) In-battle switching advances the character's status (eg. "Dark", "Silence") progression.  In other words, for statuses like "Dark" or "Silence" which are temporary and clear themselves after a few turns, you can simply in-battle switch the affected character back and forth a few times (~4-5 I think) and that would eventually result in the status removed, without losing the current turn at all (since you don't lose a turn by switching).  This effectively gives you a free way to cure those statuses.  Of course it doesn't work if the status is non-temporary.  Moreover, status like "poison" which regularly inflicts damage per turn, will inflict such damage during each in-battle switching as well.  I haven't tried "regen" status yet but I suspect it will likely behave similar, potentially giving you a free way to immediately and fully replenish your HP.

Of course, allies and monsters not involved in the switching are unaffected.

2) The stat boosts provided by Vince's special abilities (eg. Adrenaline, Meditate) will remain on the character post-battle (you can even see them in the menu screen outside of battle) if the character escaped during battle (either by "Escape" command or by Vince's "Flee" special ability).  On the other hand, if a character wasn't in battle when the battle ends (eg. you switched him out of battle, and then the battle ends by escape), he does lose those stat boosts he may have had during battle.  This is how I know one way or another, it is a bug and not intended.  The bottom line is that you can basically stat-boost up to 4 characters in your party before actually going into the next battle.  And yes, those boosts are saved (at least it look that way) when you save the game at a savepoint.

3) Arguable whether it is bug or just a sneaky trick intended for player to discover on their own, but because you can Escape from battle with an optional boss, if that optional boss has an item that can be stolen with Alicia's Theft ability, you can repeatedly steal and escape to get unlimited number of that item (until you defeat the boss of course or reach the max limit on number of items, or unless the boss is so quick and powerful, it kills your entire party after stealing without giving you any chance to escape).  In one sense, it's no different than the fact that you can do the same through random battles to accumulate such stolen items, so that's why I'm not convinced it should be called a bug.  On the other hand, the game (at the point I'm in so far, anyway) definitely depicts an optional boss as a singular character, unlike random battles where the monsters are presumably different members of the same species from battle to battle, and so it doesn't feel like you are stealing from the same entity with random battles.

1) Aware of it. Haven't fixed it yet, but it's known.
2) I've seen this happen on occasion, but never managed to link it to escaping (duh). Will look into a fix now that it's known.
3) I didn't exactly think of that, but it's not really a bug, more a case of intending mechanics working together in ways that weren't expected. There is one storyline boss where this is specifically averted (if you make a second attempt at fighting them, you get a far less useful steal item), but I never thought about it much for optionals. Still, there are only two which have really valuable steal items, one of which can't be escaped from.
Quote from: spoiler highlight to read
Cerberus and Suzaku, the latter of which cannot be escaped from.

None of these are major enough to bother putting out a V017C update for (I generally reserve those for game-breaking bugs, sometimes with a few simple fixes added alongside them), they'll probably be fixed in V018, and that will add new content (all new number versions do). Probably quite a lot of it, too.

Where are you up to so far, by the way?
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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At the point after the graveyard visit in Corgent Temple, before returning to Saria.  I am of course taking full advantage of #3 in the meantime, as you may've guessed. ;P Regrettably while the item is useful, it doesn't sell well.

You praise the virtues of the battles, but actually I find the dungeon/puzzle designs to be just as good, and for me quite the highlight of playing the game (not that there's anything wrong with the battles, but I can usually get a similar effect in most RPGs by doing challenge-style plays like LLGs).  Granted, I haven't been playing RPGs for quite some time now so maybe the dungeon designs are not that unique or new compare with current games, but at least for me I find many of them clever, new and fun in your game so far. :thumbsup:

Offline namida

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Ah, you're two bosses away from DR and then DT then... =P Your taking advantage of #3 will help majorly against the latter; I find him impossible to beat at low levels without *some* form of Haste (whether it's the spell or items) for at least one or two characters.

Anyway, while as I said I'm not going to release a minor update to patch it, I've fixed the two escape-related bugs. Still got to fix the switching bug though (I had actually noticed this bug due to a slightly different effect of it - Poison/Regen damage will occur on switching. Same root cause.)
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Proxima

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I know this game hasn't been updated for a long time, but I'm working on an RPG Maker project, and I decided it would be a good learning experience to have another play through namida's game 8-)

Let's Play Curse of Saria!
« Last Edit: July 03, 2017, 02:39:30 pm by Proxima »

Offline Dullstar

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@Proxima:

RPG Maker is always fun to use, but I'm soooo bad at actually finishing anything.

I haven't watched your playthrough, but if you're making your own project (I have no idea how much experience you have so you might already know this):

A tip: Either disable the ability to change the formation, or make sure to use it in testing. It's not unusual for people to forget that this option exists, and if you change the party leader, it can cause duplicate characters to appear in cutscenes (because many users will fail to take into account that the party leader can be any character within the party). It is fixable, but I don't quite remember exactly how to do it - it wasn't too complicated, though, and if you need this information I can look for a project where I made use of it.

Here's an example of this happening from one of my projects.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, when you have the project open in RPG Maker and launch it in the test mode, you can hold down control to pass through obstacles, which can be a nice time-saver. Before I realized this, I had several instances where I ended up getting stuck in places and wasn't sure why. Turns out I'd just bumped the control button.


This post is old, but it might still be useful information to someone:
Since you brought up Android and iOS on another thread, I'm curious whether any free RPG makers out there currently provide cross-platform support particularly with mobile platforms such as at least Android.  You may well reach a much larger user base if people can download and play the game on those platforms as well.

I don't know about free RPG Maker-type programs specifically, beyond the fact that at least one exists, but RPG Maker MV supports exporting to iOS and Android. I don't know if the support is any good, though.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 07:06:56 am by Dullstar »

Offline ccexplore

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Like many games I've played, at some point I apparently got distracted and never managed to finish even what partial content was available at the time, even though I clearly enjoyed playing it. :-\

@Proxima: maybe you'll find it even more useful to see if namida may be willing to share to you some of the actual RPG Maker project files?  I imagine it'd be a little like looking at Lix's source code in addition to playing the game itself.

Offline namida

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I'm happy to do that if it'll be helpful (assuming I can find it), but be warned that it may be a mess.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Proxima

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A tip: Either disable the ability to change the formation, or make sure to use it in testing. It's not unusual for people to forget that this option exists, and if you change the party leader, it can cause duplicate characters to appear in cutscenes (because many users will fail to take into account that the party leader can be any character within the party). It is fixable, but I don't quite remember exactly how to do it - it wasn't too complicated, though, and if you need this information I can look for a project where I made use of it.

No danger of me forgetting that in my project -- there are six available characters and the player chooses three to form their party, so I have to take into account that the party leader and followers may be any of the six characters.

@Proxima: maybe you'll find it even more useful to see if namida may be willing to share to you some of the actual RPG Maker project files?  I imagine it'd be a little like looking at Lix's source code in addition to playing the game itself.

Not really; I'm not looking at the game to learn how things are done, but to get a feel for what it's like to play through a game, what balancing decisions I agree with and what I'd do differently in my own game :)

Offline ccexplore

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@Proxima: do post your game (or a demo version thereof) here, or at least provide a download link, once it gets to that point.  I probably won't finish it but certainly wouldn't mind trying it for a few hours at least.

Offline namida

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One small hint that could be a lifesaver, Proxima: (spoiler tagged in case you dont' want hints)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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To correct some misconceptions / overlooked features I've noticed so far (these are all either basic features that might not be obvious how to access, and are not spoilery or hinty; or stuff you've specifically brought up in your videos). Some of these I may have mentioned in comments on the videos.
- When viewing scan info for an enemy, you can press a key (shift, IIRC) to switch to viewing their status resistances. And (an NPC tells you this early in the game) if you try an element or status on them once, their weakness / resistance to that status becomes visible in their scan info, even if you haven't scanned them.
- You can move quickly between characters on the status, equip, etc screens, with whatever was the default key for this in RPG Maker - might be Z and X?
- Ivy's Learn -> Blue Magic shows a full list of blue magics that exist. Although do note that due to the game being incomplete, some of them are inaccessible.
- Luck doesn't affect status infliction. It affects the chance of not missing, and the chance of getting a critical hit. I can't remember if it affected Steal's success or not. It definitely doesn't affect statuses.

And one that is slightly spoilery (since you might want to figure this out for yourself, it's the kind of thing that could be figured out), but is still mostly just game mechanics:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Appreciate the comment on *spoiler, see below*. This was one of the boss fights I put the most effort into, glad to see it paid off. :)
Click to reveal which battle (click to show/hide)

And regarding Cube (not really a spoiler since it's an out-of-nowhere boss), you didn't break the fight, that was an intentional weakness. :)



Now, to comment on something of your storyline speculation. Although this part never got into the game (though parts do exist in the source, including several completely functional boss fights), it is hinted at a bit more later in the game, though nothing ever outright confirms it. Do note that this may also mean they're spoilers for a remake or completion of the game, if I ever do get around to either.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 01:48:40 pm by namida »
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Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Proxima

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Is the following a bug or an intentional mechanic? I hope it's not intentional, because I am feeling very frustrated at this point.


Offline namida

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Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 06:34:22 am by namida »
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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I notice that the link in the first post was somewhat outdated, there was one further update since then. Although, this update just fixes one bug (albeit one that can be quite game-breaking, specifically, if you return to a certain area after completing the events there you can be unable to leave). Anyway, I updated the link. I also found a copy of the source code, so I put up a link to that too, as well as a few notes about a debug room that can be accessed via the source code version.

To those of you who have played this, I would be interested in seeing your overall feedback on what did or didn't work well, whether it relates to specific parts of the game or the overall system. While I don't know if it ever will happen, I am hoping to remake this game one day (with completely original assets, most likely including a custom-made engine even, and better writing etc), so any feedback that I could take into account for that would be great.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 01:16:42 pm by namida »
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Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Nepster

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You wanted feedback, so here it is. I noticed a few bugs in the current game, but as you plan to do a complete rewrite, I do not mention them here.
Overall it's pretty well-designed and has nice dungeons, random monsters and boss fights. So don't be frustrated should I sound overly negative in the spoilers.
And I tried to use relatively spoiler-free titles, while still giving enough information about when it is save to read this stuff.






My current party (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 21, 2017, 07:38:45 pm by Nepster »

Offline ccexplore

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It's been a while since I played this, so I probably won't provide any feedback now unless I get the chance to replay it again, likely from beginning (though I also have the option to play from the backup files correspond to whenever's the last time I touched the game).  I will say though that skimming through Nepster's "general stuff", at least a few points he mentioned are stuff I kind of took for granted based on experiences with other RPGs, so I guess the feedback will likely also depend on which other RPGs the player has played previously.  Of course, just because it's "normal" (or perhaps a better term would be "conventional" as in following the "usual" conventions of these kinds of games) doesn't mean it has to be slavishly accepted.


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Reply to ccexplore (click to show/hide)

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Feedback on above. I'll just spoiler tag the whole thing, but I'll split it into two - one for up to where Proxima's up to (based on latest video, which is currently part 19), and the rest up to where Nepster's up to (which is at, but not past, a boss fight against two undead enemies - I think only one such boss fight exists so this should identify it).

Spoilers up to these respective points will not be further marked, including those that are gameplay mechanic spoilers rather than story ones. Any spoilers beyond those points that are brought up within the tags, will be spoiler marked as nessecary.

Up to Proxima's current point (click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 05:15:02 am by namida »
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Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 04:24:06 am by ccexplore »

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Spoiler tag not really needed:  would it be enough if the sellback price is the same as for the "regular" item you are comparing with in your list?  Or do you still prefer a higher sellback price?

This is assuming that the "regular" item is also readily available (perhaps more so) from steals/drops as well, so that there is no particular advantage for the "nonregular" item to have same sellback price as the regular one, since you could always grind for the regular item instead for same amount of money.

I should also confess that it doesn't seem to be my playing style in general to grind for money, except for special cases like playing a low-level game.  That could well explain why I seem generally less bothered by item resale values.  But I guess it depends on the game as well, I could easily see a game where money is harder to come by or items tend to be more expensive than the player can afford without extra grinding.

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Would it be enough if the sellback price is the same as for the "regular" item you are comparing with in your list?  Or do you still prefer a higher sellback price?
Yes, already geting the same amount as for the "regular" item would be nice.

I should also confess that it doesn't seem to be my playing style in general to grind for money, except for special cases like playing a low-level game.  That could well explain why I seem generally less bothered by item resale values.
I am not grinding for money either, especially as I am usually pretty rich already and don't need the additional money. Still it somhow rubs my sense of fairness... :-\

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Money is not the easiest to come by in the early parts of this game.

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As I've mentioned in chat, I'm going to release an update that rebalances the difficulty in a few parts (such as the road to Trivia). This will also include a few bugfixes - in particular the reorder-on-escape bug, the glitchiness of Blessing, and a crash during one of the storyline bosses under certian conditions.

This update won't deliberately include new content, but it is possible that newer content exists in the source code than is in the latest release. If this is the case, that content will be included in the update.

I'm hoping to get this update done by Friday at the absolute latest (preferably sooner).
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If you're going to be doing an update... in my latest video, I give a few suggestions for improving one of the battles I found extremely annoying:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, as I've mentioned in chat, I hope you will reconsider your idea of having the Sensor ability automatically on. Yes, it's extremely helpful for a few bosses (like DT) that heavily depend on anticipating the boss's next move; but most of the time it's ugly screen clutter. At the very least, maybe instead of an ability it could be a setting that the player could turn on or off at any time?

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Quote
At the very least, maybe instead of an ability it could be a setting that the player could turn on or off at any time?

I could look into this. However, don't you think that, especially in a turn-based game where many factors can influence turn timing (Agility stat, buffs / debuffs, Haste / Slow, and even which attack you use can affect how quickly your next turn comes - the turn order gauge adjusts for this when you hover over any attack, too), it's quite important to have turn order visible?
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This will also include a few bugfixes - in particular the reorder-on-escape bug, [...]
I don't know what others prefer, but I would like to return to the order at the beginning of the battle in any case, even without fleeing the battle. In other words: Any switching done during the battle should not have an impact on the order after the battle. Only explicit formation changes in the character menu should have an impact.
I am aware that my suggestion is probably another piece on non-standard RPG-mechanics, so don't hesitate to tell me why this is suggestion is idiotic. :P

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I could look into this. However, don't you think that, especially in a turn-based game where many factors can influence turn timing (Agility stat, buffs / debuffs, Haste / Slow, and even which attack you use can affect how quickly your next turn comes - the turn order gauge adjusts for this when you hover over any attack, too), it's quite important to have turn order visible?

Strange question -- you can see from my video series that I don't consider it important. I put Sensor on for two battles (Returner and DT) and never used it apart from that. (And I wouldn't have needed it for Returner if I'd understood how the fight works; I didn't bother with it for DR.) Sensor is absolutely essential for DT, in which the boss's move sequence is entirely fixed, and the battle hinges on knowing what's coming next and fully preparing for it -- which requires actions from all party members and knowing when to switch them. In most fights, though, knowing when the boss will act doesn't tell you what it will do; so most gameplay consists of either reacting to the boss's last move, or deciding that your current strength is sufficient and you can afford to get in some attacks.

It could just be a matter of different players having different styles of gameplay, which goes back to my suggestion of making it an option so that we're both happy.

I don't know what others prefer, but I would like to return to the order at the beginning of the battle in any case, even without fleeing the battle. In other words: Any switching done during the battle should not have an impact on the order after the battle. Only explicit formation changes in the character menu should have an impact.
I am aware that my suggestion is probably another piece on non-standard RPG-mechanics, so don't hesitate to tell me why this is suggestion is idiotic. :P

That's an interesting point. Because of how the EXP/AP system works, I constantly need to switch in battle, and then revert to my usual front four. For random encounters, I just leave the party as-is and switch in battle to save time, but for bosses I need to switch before the battle starts. Either way, it would be a convenience to keep the front four fixed as you suggest. But other players might prefer it not to work this way and might get confused if they switch during battle and expect the switched actor to remain active.

Alternatively, consider changing the EXP/AP mechanics. Constantly switching the party members gets rather tiresome. (Though I admit, the fact that you have to choose only four to receive AP does make for some interesting choices.) Another refinement would be to allow knocked-out members to receive EXP. I know this is a traditional FF mechanic, but, as Simon would say, just because it's traditional doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

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Switching characters in-battle is a mechanic I haven't seen in many games. I can maybe think of three - Final Fantasy X, Pokemon and Jade Cocoon. How it affects levelling is different between all three, so I'm not sure if any standard rule really exists. Instead, I should make sure this game's mechanic is clearly explained - and definitely that there isn't an NPC who outright lies about it*.

* Technically, what the NPC in question says WAS true in early builds
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Regarding returning to original order after any battle - this should be doable. I will have to check whether it causes issues with one specific boss battle though (if you've fought the one I'm thinking of, you can probably guess that it's the one).

EDIT: It appears that "return to original order after battle no matter what" is already in the source code.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:07:36 am by namida »
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Rebalance update is ready.

First, I dropped the "Curse of Saria" subtitle from the game's name. It doesn't fit that well with how the storyline evolved as I was making it.

I don't think any new content is available compared to the current build - although a bit exists in the code, it's quite buggy and only partly complete so I decided to block access to it for now.

Most strongly affected areas are the path to Yuvia, and the Eastern Ranges. There's a few small tweaks elsewhere. Notably, also, the Sensor ability has been removed; turn order is now always visible. AP costs have also been altered, most of the changes being reductions (you'll get an AP boost when you load an old save to compensate for that you may have already learnt skills at a higher price). Some MP / BP costs have been tweaked too. Three moves have had significant alterations: Use no longer has any MP cost; Stand Ground now only lasts until the character's next turn but also counters magical attacks (the first half of this is actually what it was intended to do; it lasting indefinitely was a glitch); and Outrage has been removed altogether and replaced with a new skill, "Gamble".

Also, Blessing should no longer be glitchy. :)

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« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 10:34:57 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2017, 03:44:03 pm »
Here is some more feedback and bug reports. Note that I was still using the old version to play these parts.

Until the underground city (click to show/hide)

Bug reports - Spoilers (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2017, 01:52:31 am »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2017, 03:47:45 am »
As per Proxima's request, I added an option to show or hide the turn order meter. It's even (or rather, only) possible to change the setting in-battle.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2017, 02:24:55 pm »
Okay, I was hoping to have the next dungeon (in terms of what's completed, not what's released) ready before another update, but with Crash Bandicoot: N Sane Trilogy coming out tomorrow, I don't see much work happening for a while, and at the moment I've only got the dungeon maybe 40% complete.

So, here's the V019 update, without that dungeon, but still wtih a couple of new ones that weren't in the previous releases (and the stuff that was accessible but crashed in V017x now works fine!).

Aside from this extra content, there have been a couple more very minor rebalancing touches, a few bugfixes, and two major changes to game mechanics:
- You can now save anywhere (from the menu). This does not recover your HP. Save crystals still exist, and do recover your HP, but they are now much rarer.
- An option has been added (in the battle commands menu) to turn the turn order display on or off. This does not take up the character's turn, just in case anyone was worried about that. It should default to on, but it's easy to change if it doesn't.

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2017, 05:02:43 pm »
So I feel this is a good point for me to pause and give my own feedback on the game so far :)

First and most importantly, I really love this game. I don't have much experience of RPGs -- the only ones I've played to completion are FF9 and Chrono Trigger, both a long time ago. This has the same elements of fun -- exploring dungeons, mazes and puzzles; beating up monsters in a simple turn-based combat system; developing your characters through level progression, equipment and new abilities; making choices for how to develop, with both immediate and long-term strategic implications; easily defeating monsters that had been a huge threat earlier in the game ;) But this game adds an extra dimension, in that most of the bosses are really challenging and force the player to observe the boss's mechanics and weak points, and come up with a strategy to take them out. Sometimes this takes the form of single "aha" insights that are really satisfying when they click (as with that one boss in Taspia...); other times it's a gradual process of improving one's strategy and making further observations and tweaks, as with DT. It's been a huge amount of fun so far, and I really hope that's come out in my video series.

It's also a pleasure to be working with a developer who takes feedback seriously and improves those parts of the game that are less fun, like a change namida made just now to the second-last boss I've reached, which will make that fight much more fun and less frustrating.

Now I'm going to go into detail about parts of the game, and mechanics you might not learn for a while, so everything from now on may contain spoilers up to the part I've reached, namely the "W" (1 word, 6 letters) boss. Also, there may be some duplication with what I've already said in my videos; but it's more convenient for namida to have everything in a post like this than to have to rewatch 25 hours of video footage if he wants to look over my feedback again.

General comments (click to show/hide)

Dungeon layouts and mapping (click to show/hide)

Game mechanics (click to show/hide)

Boss-by-boss breakdown (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 02:10:32 am by Proxima »

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2017, 06:04:40 pm »

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2017, 09:14:38 pm »
What exactly do you suggest in your last sentence?

Touch encounters: RPG Maker jargon for visible events that trigger encounters when touched, like the Nom Plants and Transient Lites.

Quote
Anyway, perhaps one could even remove "No Encounters" and the ability to half the number of encounters. Of course one would need some way to be able to comfortable visit old areas. So why not disable random encounters entirely once the following two conditions are met:

Interesting idea, but it doesn't fully meet my objection. Since one can escape from any random encounter, dungeons that are just mazes with no puzzles and no touch encounters can be trivialised, allowing players to make off with all the loot for free.

* * *

A couple more points. I won't spoiler-tag these, as they refer to the very beginning of the game.

In the early game, Tara and Leanna don't have any tools other than "attack" or "attack with chance of status". There's some strategy in when to apply status, but the early game is still fairly monotonous. One possibility would be to give one of them a single-target ATK buff and the other a DEF buff; there is then a bit more strategy in that you have to decide whether to use these buffs, or try to inflict status, or just go all-out with attacks.

One of the tutorial NPCs in Caralint describes undead as "like having a permanent Zombie status", but this is before Zombie status has appeared or been explained. I'd prefer it if he just explained that being undead makes healing spells hurt, and then later, explain Zombie status as having the same effects as being undead. (Possibly, this explanation should appear in the description of Amanda's Curse, which is the first time Zombie status appears. Or introduce a monster that can cast Zombie in the forest.)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 01:34:05 am »
Since one can escape from any random encounter, dungeons that are just mazes with no puzzles and no touch encounters can be trivialised, allowing players to make off with all the loot for free.

It's a reasonable suggestion to compensate for this by adding more touch encounters like you suggested.  Personally I think a player who is over-reliant on escaping random encounters will already be missing out a lot (the random encounters are arguably a core part of the RPG experience, and you gain a lot of levels, experiences, etc. rewards from such encounters, which in turn affects your ability to deal with bosses), so trivializing the dungeon would probably just be yet another way they are ruining the game for themselves with their choices.

I would only add that if an area may be forced to be revisited in a later part of the game (but without introducing anything new in terms of monsters etc. so it's just basically forced walking), the part of the game when it is getting revisited, should preferably have much reduced touch encounters compared to earlier, since at that point it's arguably no longer about tackling the dungeon.

=========================

And +1 to Proxima's opinion on new vs old title.  Surely we can find a better title that is not so bland- and generic-sounding, but still accurate to the game (which was the main reason why the old title was discontinued).

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2017, 01:56:18 am »
And +1 to Proxima's opinion on new vs old title.  Surely we can find a better title that is not so bland- and generic-sounding, but still accurate to the game (which was the main reason why the old title was discontinued).

I should mention that I completely sympathise with it being difficult to come up with a good title. The Descent of King Hesper, the currently ongoing DROD level set that I'm organising, went untitled for two and a half years before I came up with that one.

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2017, 04:29:50 am »
Released a V019A update that fixes a bug that wasn't allowing save-anywhere on some save files. Links are the same as before, I just updated the ZIP files. If you've got the up-to-date one, it will have a text file mentioning this.



Found a bug that may affect some players. If you've beaten a very unusual boss fight, with a 9-letter name starting with M, and what you think you need to do next seems to be disabled...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It is possible to go about events in such an order that this bug never occurs, but I suspect the majority of players will do things in the order that does lead to this, as that's the order the game pushes you to do them in.

I don't see this as worthy of releasing another update just to fix, so I'm simply pointing it out. It'll be fixed in the next update.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2017, 08:37:20 pm »

Edit: Added one more bug to the list.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2017, 08:57:16 pm by Nepster »

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 01:45:28 pm »
Another bug. Read only once you've either fought (not necesserially defeated) a Specimen, or obtained a Lab Key, unless you don't care about mechanics spoilers (there are no plot spoilers).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

While this one is a tad more significant, I still feel it can wait until the next update.



The bug Nepster mentioned, and Proxima also noted in one video, ...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

... is now also fixed. This was quite a tricky one; I'm still not entirley sure what caused it, I just found a workaround that seems to work.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 02:14:49 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2017, 02:43:05 pm »
An idea I'm considering and would like input on. I'm not sure how to spoiler-tag this in a way that makes it clear what it's about without the warning itself being a spoiler (it is only mechanics spoilers, not plot ones, though; but it is possibly one of the largest mechanics spoilers in the game), but I can say that this won't be a spoiler for either Nepster or Proxima. It's possible to play through all current content without this ever becoming a not-spoiler though, so read with caution. If you've completed the content in the current demo and have been making a point of finding optional stuff, this will probably not be a spoiler for you.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 03:07:32 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2017, 05:05:13 pm »
Thoughts on the above. Same spoiler warning applies. (Don't read unless, at the very least, you've reached and thoroughly explored Sysona.)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2017, 11:58:36 am »
Regarding Proxima's run,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #57 on: July 04, 2017, 07:30:37 am »
As I mentioned in chat, the only thing left before I can make the next release is some more testing. :)

Progress:

Current ETA: Within the next 24 hours
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 05:16:32 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #58 on: July 05, 2017, 05:38:16 pm »
V020 update is here at last! :)

This adds both some new storyline content and some new optional content. There's also bugfixes (as usual), as well as that you now start with three slots, but throughout the course of the game can expand that to six. There have also been some minor tweaks, as usual.

Fresh install: https://www.dropbox.com/s/e5xm0jxnlcmsf9y/LoaO_V020_Fresh.zip?dl=1
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #59 on: July 05, 2017, 06:15:50 pm »
A couple of issues:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2017, 01:25:55 am »
I was meaning to add the note on where to get 3 -> 4 but must have forgotten. Though I was going to make it conditional on already reaching that point.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You should still be able to use the other upgrade anyways. It's more like two different +1s, rather than specifically 3 to 4 and 4 to 5.

Will look into the other two.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2017, 10:14:53 am »
Quotes from Proxima's post (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2017, 05:47:35 pm »
Some more bug reports (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2017, 08:10:31 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 08:21:39 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #64 on: July 08, 2017, 08:46:27 am »
Patch for the game-breaking bug (as well as some of the more minor ones) is now uploaded. Same links; there will be an empty "V020A.txt" text file to identify the updated ZIP.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2017, 06:12:10 pm »

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2017, 10:03:44 am »
Nepster's post (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2017, 12:11:18 pm »
My plan for the next update is to include about half of the Mayae Ranges sidequest, as well as about half of the next dungeon. The last remaining "not yet accessible" area will probably come in the update after that, as will the rest of the next dungeon.

If anyone happens to have a save (that isn't from a low-level game or similar) from...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...it'd be great if you can send that to me. If not, I'll just rely on testing with a somewhat "mockup" party at roughly the right levels for now, and leave in-depth testing until the game's content is more or less complete.

In terms of progress, so far the parts of the Mayae Ranges that I plan to include are 80% complete (just need to difficulty test with a party that's appropriately levelled for the point in the game where it becomes available; designing and event-testing is all done), and the parts of the next dungeon that I plan to include are either 0% complete or about 5% complete, depending on where exactly I decide to put a currently-WIP boss (in particular, there's another specific boss fight that I want in the second half of the dungeon, and I'm not sure if I want this WIP one to be before or after it. If I go with "before", this one will be the last boss in the first half of the dungeon).



Update:

Mayae Ranges still not balance-tested yet. I've been feeling in the mood to create stuff a lot the last few days, so I figure I'm better off saving testing until a time when I'm not in such a creative mood (or when all content I intend to include in the next update is done; whatever comes first).

In terms of the storyline dungeon that I'm planning to half-complete for the next update, I'd say it's about 60% done design-wise now, but has had very little testing so far (mostly just some testing of enemy AI).



Update again:

Most of this dungeon is done now. Still needs most of the testing to be done, though. There is one (non-optional) side section that I haven't started yet because I'm not sure yet what I want to do with it; I also need to come up with (both idea-wise and implementation-wise) a boss to put in this section too. Aside from this section and testing, the only remaining thing is to write the AI for the end boss of this segment.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 04:36:20 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #68 on: July 13, 2017, 10:20:43 pm »
I had been hoping to get the new update out before the weekend, but have been quite busy and tired the last couple of days. As such I haven't done much more progress since last time I mentioned where I was up to.

I probably won't have too much chance to work on it over the weekend, so ETA is now early next week, I'd say most likely around midday Monday UTC (but this still is not guaranteed; and for that matter, nor is it certian that it *won't* be sooner than this, just unlikely).
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2017, 10:59:33 am »
As expected, didn't get anything done over the weekend. But just now, I've made the missing section (including the boss). I still need to test (edit: event testing done, but still need to do balance testing), and write the AI for the end boss of the segment.

I also found and fixed two bugs relating to Reflect status that I'm very surprised have gone unnoticed: Firstly that enemy counterattacks completely bypass reflect even when they shouldn't (not sure how this went unnoticed, though it may be that many (though not all) enemies that use reflectable counterattacks are also aware of reflect and will use something else (or target someone else) if their counterattack would have been reflected otherwise); and secondly was that auto-reflect doesn't always get restored after something is reflected by it - this appears to happen more often for party members, but can happen for enemies too.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 12:11:07 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2017, 10:50:25 am »
Alright, the next part of the adventure is finally here! :) As well as more of the storyline, about half of the Mayae Ranges sidequest is also now playable.

V021:
Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/et4p6a73ozoffgj/LoaO_V021_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nbh7lsmrhhaf5g/LoaO_V021_Upgrade.zip?dl=1

Enjoy. :)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2017, 02:20:38 pm »
V022 update. This is fairly minor; it adds the rest of the Mayae Ranges sidequest, as well as a few AI tweaks to some of the new storyline bosses from V021 (no changes to their stats, just to their AI).

Please note that the upgrade link is only intended for use if you're currently on V021. If you're on anything earlier, please redownload the fresh install copy instead (don't worry, you'll still keep your save files as long as you just extract it over your existing copy).

Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8zt79cmha0rfhuq/LoaO_V022_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mqech49d89rfkxy/LoaO_V022_Upgrade.zip?dl=1 (from V021 only; otherwise please download the fresh copy)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #72 on: July 24, 2017, 01:17:25 am »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #73 on: July 24, 2017, 10:10:06 am »
I've just reached the point where all storyline content (excluding parts of the final-bosses / post-final-bosses cutscenes) has been made! :) Testing still remains to be done on it, though.

Some optional content still remains to create. Some of it will be available in the next update; other content will come in a further update (this "coming even later" content is intended to be post-game level content, so don't worry about being overlevelled).



At this point, remaining content for next update:


There's one more piece of optional content that remains to do after this, which is intended for a postgame party and will come in a later update.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 12:13:35 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #74 on: July 24, 2017, 03:08:16 pm »
Okay, all storyline content is now created! (Though none of the new stuff has been balance-tested, and the post-final-boss cutscene has not yet been event tested either.)

Aside from the testing, I still need to add some more Monster Hunter bosses before the update is ready for release.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2017, 12:15:01 am »
Been playing too much Crash Bandicoot the last few days, so haven't made any further progress with testing since what I mentioned in chat the other day (which is a bit further than I've mentioned in this topic; storyline-wise, only the last two bosses and the cutscene after them remain untested, and the bosses only need difficulty testing, their AI testing is completed).
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2017, 02:57:42 pm »
Where did Ivy's BP meter go? And how will she use Blue Magic without it (or will she be able to at all)? Well, you'll get to find out when you complete the Monster Hunter sidequest, which will be possible in the next update. ;)

(The incorrect background for this battle has nothing to do with any new stuff; it's just because this screenshot was taken in battle test mode.)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2017, 05:58:29 pm »
So - as I mentioned in chat - the storyline is now 100% complete and tested!

There's still some sidequest stuff I want to implement before the next update, though. This is just some Monster Hunter bosses, so shouldn't be a particularly time-consuming task, once I get a chance where I'm in the right mindset for it (and have the time to do so). As I've mentioned, the sidequest relating to that building near Saria will come in a later update - it's intended for very-high-level parties, so don't worry about overlevelling if you're planning on playing it.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #78 on: August 06, 2017, 06:39:16 am »
At this stage, all that remains is a little bit of testing and a few bugfixes - the remaining Monster Hunter bosses have now been created. :) All going well, I should have it ready sometime today, at last. Probably tomorrow at the latest.

EDIT: All tested now! But there are a couple more minor things I need to implement or test (relating to some minor rebalancing, mostly) before releasing.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 07:31:25 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #79 on: August 06, 2017, 08:35:55 am »
Okay, you've waited long enough. :P

Here is the V023 update, which now allows you to play through the entire storyline, as well as all but one of the sidequests (which will come in the V024 update).

Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ny26x1yyb589v63/LoaO_V023_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdlvk8tpk181pju/LoaO_V023_Upgrade.zip?dl=1 (from V021 or higher only; otherwise please download the fresh copy)

Changelog (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #80 on: August 07, 2017, 04:37:19 pm »
Here are some bugs (click to show/hide)


EDIT & EDIT 2: Added two more bugs.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 06:20:52 pm by Nepster »

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #81 on: August 08, 2017, 04:44:46 am »
Re: Bugs (click to show/hide)

Re: Mayae Ranges (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #82 on: August 08, 2017, 04:40:49 pm »


Some general comments (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #83 on: August 09, 2017, 06:40:18 am »
Bugs (from earlier post) (click to show/hide)

More-recent post (click to show/hide)

Some responses to boss feedback (click to show/hide)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #84 on: August 09, 2017, 12:05:06 pm »
Re-responses to boss feedback (click to show/hide)

Re-feedback to bugs (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:10:38 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #85 on: August 09, 2017, 01:45:59 pm »
V024 update is here, mostly to address Nepster's bug reports / feedback.

Please note there are two different upgrade links - one for people with V021 or V022, and one for people with V023. If unsure, get the V021 / V022 one (it won't hurt to use this if you're on V023, it's just a slightly larger download). If you're on earlier than V021, you'll need to grab the fresh download - your saves will still work, of course.

If you've encountered the bug where, after fighting the final Monster Hunter boss (or the one directly outside the Mayae Ranges, but this will only happen with that fight under very specific circumstances that are unlikely to happen, whereas it can occur very easily with the final one), the battle music for random encounters is wrong, revisiting any part of the plains will fix this - in fact, it will even fix this on V023 (but V024 has some changes to avoid this bug happening in the first place, hopefully).

Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ql2k22kzh6v1wh/LoaO_V024_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5t10h4ogy3zqgyj/LoaO_V024_Upgrade_23.zip?dl=1 (from V023 only)
Upgrade: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0dp5b7xqx62vlyg/LoaO_V024_Upgrade_2122.zip?dl=1 (from V021 or V022 only)

« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 01:56:40 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2017, 05:12:02 pm »
I haven't tried the end-game again, but still some...
Re-re-feedback (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #87 on: August 09, 2017, 10:43:32 pm »
A bug has come up that's interfering with the next episode of the LLG :(

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2017, 01:15:52 am »
Will look into it but will probably wait for the next major update to fix, unless more bugs arise that lead to a need for a bugfix update again.

@Nepster: It is completely possible, even in a save file that was started on the current version, to have two by this point. (In previous versions, three was possible.)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #89 on: August 10, 2017, 03:24:51 pm »

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #90 on: August 10, 2017, 03:40:43 pm »
How to get the item Nepster asked about (BIG spoiler):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #91 on: August 11, 2017, 05:57:31 am »
Responses to Nepster (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 11:41:37 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #92 on: August 11, 2017, 11:44:12 am »
Continuing from the last post (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 12:06:38 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #93 on: August 14, 2017, 11:30:01 pm »
A couple of bugs relating to the portion of the game I'm currently on in my LLG videos:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #94 on: August 15, 2017, 02:27:19 pm »
I could've sworn I'd fixed the first one. Maybe I made a hotfix for it but forgot to apply the fix to the main working copy or something... (It's bloody annoying that RPG Maker VX Ace stores all the scripts in a proprietary-format file and thus it can't effectively be used with Git or similar, to avoid this kind of issue. RPG Maker MV fixes this issue, though moving to it from VXA is not possible without rewriting all the custom code - and it still has nearly all the downsides of VXA, which is why I'm very strongly leaning towards a custom engine if I ever do a remake.)

Will look into the second tomorrow.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #95 on: August 15, 2017, 10:30:52 pm »
Two more bugs, one of which is progress-blocking:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #96 on: August 15, 2017, 10:40:38 pm »
Also, this may or may not be a bug. Poison reduced the Dinosore to 0 HP and it didn't die. (Which was really lucky, because I wanted to knock out my other party members to avoid EXP.) I know poison damage can immediately kill, so is this just what happens when it goes down to exactly 0 HP?

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #97 on: August 16, 2017, 05:31:57 am »
Enemies that have a final attack, or anything else that happens (beyond just dying) when they're reduced to 0 HP - even if it's solely behind the scenes stuff - sometimes will not die if they're reduced to 0 HP by Poison (or Zombie-Regen) or a move that cannot be counterattacked (for example, because the move itself is a counterattack). Not all such enemies are affected by this, but if a specific enemy is, it will always be. I still need to look into fixing this. I don't recall Dinosore being such a case off the top of my head though, so I might need to take a closer look at it specifically too.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #98 on: August 17, 2017, 05:54:52 pm »
Some more small bugs (click to show/hide)

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #99 on: August 20, 2017, 05:47:26 am »
Proxima's reports (click to show/hide)

Have made notes of all the untested ones here, as well as Nepster's reports.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #100 on: August 24, 2017, 12:57:43 am »
V025 update is here! This fixes quite a few bugs and has a few rebalancing changes. But most notably, a significant portion (though not yet all) of the sidequest in that strange building near Saria is now accessible. Do note that you need to be progressed pretty far through the storyline before you can start this sidequest, and that it is intended as a postgame sidequest.

Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zm70tqg5f5z9g77/LoaO_V025_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade (from V023 or higher only): https://www.dropbox.com/s/aff4uaxtd58g4yu/LoaO_V025_Upgrade.zip?dl=1

If you are on a version older than V023, please get the fresh download. You can still keep using your save files.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 01:05:26 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #101 on: August 25, 2017, 04:12:50 pm »
I played the final three bosses again.


And finally one more bug from the LLG. See attachment.

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #102 on: August 26, 2017, 12:08:17 pm »
Regarding the new sidequest (click to show/hide)


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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #103 on: August 27, 2017, 03:02:44 am »
Regarding sidequest boss drops (click to show/hide)

Regarding monster availability (click to show/hide)

Final bosses (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 03:16:45 am by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2017, 08:37:29 am »
All but one of the remaining bosses for the sidequest are now completed. :) That aside, there are also two other optional bosses left to finish implementing.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #105 on: September 19, 2017, 12:29:09 pm »
So, due to some issues on my computer, my working folder for this was erased.

Of course, I have backups, but the backups were slightly out of date. Basically, I'm back to the state the game was in at the last release (possibly with one or two minor changes). At least there wasn't much in the way of bugfixes (only a certain boss being vunerable to proportional-damage attacks when they shouldn't be). I do have one last resort method for trying to recover the data, but it isn't the most likely to work. (EDIT: Located the raw binary data of at least the relevant AI scripts; still trying to locate the actual enemy data. Whether or not I can integrate it back into the main files is another matter.)

(EDIT 2: I've managed to also locate the data relating to the skills and enemy formations of the extra enemies, but so far I haven't been able to locate actual enemy data that includes the last three - I have found data that includes the first three that were added since the last update. Once again though, this still doesn't mean for sure that I can integrate the data usefully.)

(EDIT 3: Alright! I've located raw data that includes all the enemies now! But actually trying to make use of this data will have to wait until tomorrow, I'm too tired at the moment.)

On a side note, I have been looking into various things that could become relevant to any potential remake, and there may be some potential for that remake to become much more impressive than I would've initially expected - as well as a mobile version (although this would likely be limited to Android, as I don't have an iOS device I could use to test on). Perhaps even console if by some stroke of luck it becomes really popular - the engine I'm looking at definitely supports that, though getting approved for it is another matter.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 03:23:17 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2017, 11:33:15 pm »
Restoring the AI data was a success! :D Which means it's very likely I'll be able to restore the other data too.

EDIT: YES!!!! All lost data restored!
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 11:50:49 pm by namida »
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #107 on: October 01, 2017, 12:22:15 am »
Only one optional boss (albeit one consisting of two enemies) remains to be implemented now. Been a bit busy lately so haven't worked on it as much as I would've liked, but this one is purely a matter of implementing it (and some testing), as the design is all decided already. :)

I was considering doing another major rebalance update after everything else is finished, but I'll probably leave this in favor of putting more effort towards a higher-quality remake (but may still make a few minor rebalancing tweaks, if need be).
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #108 on: November 02, 2017, 09:56:08 pm »
Any progress during the last month?

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #109 on: November 02, 2017, 09:58:01 pm »
Mea culpa. Namida has implemented the boss I designed, but I haven't gotten round to testing it yet.

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #110 on: November 03, 2017, 10:06:21 pm »
I'm preparing a "pre-final" release right now. This basically includes all the content, but likely still has a few minor bugs or balancing issues. I can then incorporate Proxima's feedback, as well as anything else, into the true final release.
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #111 on: November 03, 2017, 10:37:15 pm »
Said release is now ready!

As mentioned, while this now includes all content that I ever intend to have in the game, there may still be one or two more updates solely to fix bugs and maybe make some balancing tweaks.

Download links:
Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7yu5bgfg0tosmrf/LoaO_V026_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade from Demo V023 or higher: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ky0rhudpy0xezg/LoaO_V026_Upgrade.zip?dl=1
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #112 on: November 03, 2017, 11:08:36 pm »
Found a significant bug in one enemy's AI. I can 99% guarantee that none of you have fought the enemy in question yet (as it requires defeating every other boss, optional or not, in the game, except the final boss sequence), so you won't have to re-fight anything to get the "proper" fight. Just redownload before playing further. :) (If you used the fresh download before, you can just use the upgrade version to re-download.)
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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #113 on: November 06, 2017, 09:53:41 am »
Uploaded V026a (download links remain the same; look for a "V026a.txt" file in the ZIP to confirm you've got the fixed version).

This fixes a bug that causes the game to crash at the start of two specific boss battles - one of which is among the final bosses sequence.
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #114 on: November 18, 2017, 08:46:39 pm »
Since there are no further issues reported, I'm going to declare this finished now. Further bugfixes are possible if needed, but no further new content or balance changes will occur.
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #115 on: January 01, 2018, 05:40:16 am »
V026b released. This just has a few bugfixes. One in particular was a bug that prevented further progress; if you have a bugged save, it will be automatically fixed when loaded on this version. That aside, there was one case of a boss having the wrong immunities, and one exploitable glitch (though with a relatively small window of opportunity to exploit it), as well as a couple of purely cosmetic issues.

Download links remain the same, check for "V026b.txt" if you want to make sure you've got the new update.

Fresh download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7yu5bgfg0tosmrf/LoaO_V026_Fresh.zip?dl=1
Upgrade (from V023 or higher only): https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ky0rhudpy0xezg/LoaO_V026_Upgrade.zip?dl=1
Steam Workshop: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1252703211
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #116 on: January 21, 2018, 12:26:24 am »
One site I was trying to submit this to was quite fussy about the quality of preview images, so I got some better and up-to-date ones. Added to first post.
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #117 on: January 21, 2018, 08:53:22 pm »
So, I've mentioned the idea in several places, and I think that - at least on the smaller communities like this one (I might hold off from announcing anything on larger ones for now) - I'm at a point where I can safely announce this now.

I'm officially working on a full-blown remake of this game!

It's going to be a very large project, it probably won't be finished for a long time. I had initially planned to use RPG Maker MV, but before I'd even so much as done the first few database entries I quickly realised it was going to be the major problems with VXAce all over again, specifically, that while it's far from impossible, the RPG Maker engines simply aren't very well suited to anything that deviates much from the default system.

So, instead, I'm making my own engine entirely from scratch. I'm developing it in Lazarus (which is pretty much just "Open-Source Delphi"; you'll probably recognize Delphi as what was used to make Lemmix and NeoLemmix). Likewise, all the graphical / music / etc assets will need to be custom made as well. My plan here is to just do low-quality, almost-placeholder-type ones while I'm working on it, and if / when I get to the stage that completion is inevitable, I'll look at replacing them with better ones - I might make them myself, or I might look at finding someone else to contribute, though either way it'll be original resources made specifically for this game. So far, I haven't written a single line of the actual engine yet, but the editor is coming along very nicely - database editing is almost complete (just missing AI scripts, common events, and some parts of enemy formations). Why did I decide to move to Lazarus now - quite simply, because it can produce cross-platform apps. I'm hoping for the finished product to be available on at least Windows, Mac, Linux and Android; possibly iOS too, but I'd have to get myself an iOS device for testing first.

To be clear - this isn't going to be "more or less the same game, just looks better" type remake like eg. Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy (nothing against N Sane Trilogy of course, it's amazing, it's just not an example of the type of remake I'm going for here). It's more a case of "a new game, but using the original game as if it were a rough draft". In particular, I want to greatly improve the storywriting standard, as well as integrate elements that I had in mind but ultimately didn't make it into the game (eg. the planned sidequest in Sysona that was blocked off by a "not yet available" message in early demos, but ultimately got culled altogether and the path that would have lead to it is no longer there in the final version). I also have several changes in mind for the levelling system - most notably, rather than EXP increasing your level which then determines your stats, EXP would just accumulate and the player could then spend it on directly upgrading stats. (I realise this could get tedious, so I plan to add some kind of option to let the game manage it automatically too. However, for those players who really want fine-grained control, the option would be there.)

As far as gameplay mechanics go, I'm pretty happy with the ideas I have in mind. However, writing is a much weaker point for me, so I'd be very interested to hear suggestions. I don't want to spoil the ideas I have in mind, which in turn means it might be harder to take suggestions as they'd have to be based off the original version rather than any revisions I have in mind (which there are a lot, since this is going from "create some excuse for a story to give the gameplay some context" to "actually try and have a good story"), but I'd still be glad to hear them - general ideas rather than specific points could still be pretty useful. (eg. "In this specific scene, Tara looks to the left, she should look to the right instead" isn't really useful because that scene might not even end up in the remake, or might look very different. "I feel there should have been more on Ivy's backstory" on the other hand would be a useful suggestion. Of course, feel free to be more specific, it's just a bit uncertain how useful it'd be.)
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Offline nin10doadict

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #118 on: January 22, 2018, 07:21:39 pm »
Interesting. Don't know if I could offer any story input though; I didn't get very far. I got terrified that I might spend time earning AP for a character only to have them disappear forever later. Also got scared off from the looming threat of "this game is hard now and will only get harder."

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #119 on: January 23, 2018, 07:14:44 am »
Are there really no game engines out there that's not RPG-specific, but still generic enough to support making a few different genres of games of which RPGs can be one?  I have nothing against writing your own engine from scratch, but I have to wonder if there's already something between that and RPG Maker which you can use instead, so less time needs to be spent on the low-level nitty-gritty, but still provide enough flexibility to do the things you can't do in RPG Maker.

Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2018, 08:03:05 pm »
Are there really no game engines out there that's not RPG-specific, but still generic enough to support making a few different genres of games of which RPGs can be one?  I have nothing against writing your own engine from scratch, but I have to wonder if there's already something between that and RPG Maker which you can use instead, so less time needs to be spent on the low-level nitty-gritty, but still provide enough flexibility to do the things you can't do in RPG Maker.

I did look at a few, but ultimately found that most of them were frustrating me trying to work with /their/ ideas of how things should be done. In general, I usually do find it easier to work with my own code than anyone else's.

Interesting. Don't know if I could offer any story input though; I didn't get very far. I got terrified that I might spend time earning AP for a character only to have them disappear forever later. Also got scared off from the looming threat of "this game is hard now and will only get harder."

Any character who you ever permanently lose is not possible to gain AP for in the first place. That's one of the few ways I was nice to the player. :P (It doesn't really spoil anything, because it's made quite clear when such characters join that they're temporary.)
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #121 on: March 30, 2018, 12:42:49 pm »


Remake menu system coming along nicely. Face graphic is obviously placeholder.

Note the HP and MP gauges. The ones in the original version of the game only show the character's current HP relative to their maximum HP (and likewise for MP). This can often be misleading - if you have one character with 400 HP out of 1200, and another with 200 HP out of 400, who needs healing more urgently? Obviously the latter character - however, looking at the gauges can mislead, as the former's gauge would only be at 33%, while the latter's would be at 50%.

Instead, I've decided to make them consistent. So - green shows the character's current HP (or MP). Red shows the difference between their current and maximum. The black section is the difference between their max HP and the HP cap (ie: 9999 - I'm doing away with Ultra HP; or in the case of MP, it's 999). This way, the same amount of green bar means the same amount of HP, regardless of who has higher max HP.

While on the subject of stat caps - the original version capped stats (except HP and MP) at 255. This seems a bit weird; it's not due to any technical limitation in the engine, but rather is arbitrary, albeit based on that Final Fantasy also caps stats at this point. Instead, I'm going with a more logical cap of 99 this time around. Similar to in the original game, enemies will not be affected by the HP cap, but will still be affected by all other caps - although with that being said, rather than giving enemies outrageous amounts of HP, I'm intending to reduce the availability of overpowered attacks that lead to such high HP enemies. I don't envision many enemies having more than maybe 100k or so HP. (By comparison to the original - one of the final bosses has 1,000,000 HP, and some sidequest bosses have more than triple this.) Instead, you're not going to be having access to attacks that deal nearly that much damage in a single hit.
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #122 on: March 30, 2018, 11:43:54 pm »


The main screen of the menu is now complete, at least in terms of functionality (obviously some graphics still need to be added).

What's "Primary Class" and "Unleash Skill", you may be wondering?

In the original, each character had an inherent class, that they could use moves from without any special equipment. Then, equipment was available to allow them to equip extra classes. I've decided to greatly overhaul this system. Instead, each character now has a primary class, and up to two secondary classes. The character can use abilities from any equipped class. It's possible to unequip classes again, but the character must always have a primary class (I have actually already implemented this, but I haven't added support to the editor for actually setting their initial one yet, which is why the screenshot shows them all as empty). Thus, until you get to the point in the game where you get second copies of classes, you can't actually change them around - once you do, you can by all means remove the character's original class altogether and give them a different one - just keep in mind this won't significantly change their stats, so certain characters may not always be best suited to certain classes.

As for Unleash Skill, that's just the game's name for limit break type skills. I'm going to add, or in some cases repurpose particularly powerful moves from the original (think like Glory, Mix, etc), as limit break type skills. Similar to classes, you can equip and unequip these; you're not required to have one equipped, though characters don't have any inherent one to fall back on if you don't equip one. The Unleash Skill must match the character's primary class.

Aside from the unleash skill, regular skills will also be equipped and uneqipped, but a skill can only be equipped if the character has the matching class (it doesn't necesserially have to be their primary class).

At this point, beyond the Unleash Skill, I haven't implemented any ways the secondary classes are disadvantaged or lesser in effect compared to the main one. I'm still thinking about how, or even if, I want to do that.

That aside, yes, I've also added armor now. Note that most armor types are used by several characters rather than just one, so they're more interchangeable between characters than weapons are. Rather than equipping abilities directly like in the original version, I plan to go more FFX-like here and have the abilities be linked to weapons / armor. I'm undecided on whether the player will be able to customize the abilities on equipment, or if it'll be a matter of having to find equipment with the abilities you want.
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #123 on: April 01, 2018, 12:15:50 am »


In the original version of the game, once you got to the point where most enemies gave more than 1 or 2 AP per fight, you could very quickly amass a huge number of abilities to have ready to use at any time.

I want to somewhat nerf that (not to mention the lack of direct levelling), and as such, I'm introducing the "Gem Gear" system. The above image shows the gem gear, to which you can equip gems which unlock various abilities. You can remove them, but you can only use abilities that come from currently-equipped gems.

As you can see, the gem gear provides 12 gem slots. This will be constant throughout the game. However, the slots are not all interchangeable.

There are three types of gems - Class, Unleash and Standard.

Class gems don't do much in and of themself. They might provide some minor passive benefits, such as slightly boosting some stats. The gem slot with the two green stars around it is the primary class slot; this is the only slot which must be filled at all times. The slots immediately to the left and right of it are the secondary class slots; these do not have to be filled.

Unleash gems provide a "limit break" type attack. An unleash gem will always have a corresponding class gem; you must have that class equipped as your primary class in order to equip the unleash gem. The slot right at the top is for an unleash gem. You don't have to have one equipped, but you can only equip one at a time. To be clear - there may be multiple unleash gems that correspond to the same class gem; but any given unleash gem will only have one class gem that it matches up with.

Standard gems might provide either a skill you can use in battle, or some kind of passive boost, or in some cases, both. Like Unleash gems, standard gems can correspond to a specific class gem; however, unlike unleash gems, there are also "neutral" standard gems that don't correspond to any particular class.

All remaining slots (besides the class slots and unleash slot) are for standard gems. Additionally, the two secondary class slots can also hold standard gems, if they aren't being used to hold class gems. There are some further limitations here: The four slots at the bottom can only hold neutral gems, or gems that correspond to the primary class. The two slots on each side (as well as the secondary class slots, if being used for standard gems) can hold gems that correspond to the primary class, or the secondary class on the same side. For example - if you equipped Fighter as the primary class, Theif as the left-side secondary class, and Black Mage as the right-side secondary class, the two standard slots on the left could hold Fighter-class gems, Theif-class gems, or neutral gems; but not Black Mage-class gems - those would have to go in the slots on the right. And you wouldn't be able to equip White Mage-class gems at all.

I envision most gems will provide some drawback to equipping them - as well as possible side benefits. Some neutral ones might be purely beneficial, but in this case, the downside would be taking up a slot that could otherwise allow you to equip an ability. But as an example, a standard gem that provides a fire spell, might also give the user a weakness to the ice element; or a standard gem that provides a strong physical attack might reduce the character's Defence and/or Magic stats. In this sense, it becomes not just a balancing game of deciding which skills within a limited range will be well suited for an upcoming battle, but also in terms of making sure you don't open too many weaknesses via the downsides of various gems.

I am wondering whether allowing the side slots to be used for the primary class might be overpowered, and I am considering making them for the secondary classes (or neutrals) only.

The gems themself would be found in all the standard ways to find items - drops / steals, purchasing, finding in chests, etc. Characters would also come with at least a primary class already equipped; and usually a couple more too (although in the case of Tara and Leanna, most likely they'll start with none beyond the primary class, but with them finding some very early in the first dungeon, as an opportunity to introduce and explain the system in-game).

(This is probably a bit of a confusing explanation, so feel free to ask if anything is unclear. Likewise, input is always appreciated, it's nowhere near too late to change any of this.)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 12:23:49 am by namida »
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Offline Nepster

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #124 on: April 03, 2018, 05:01:46 pm »
Nice to see such progress on your project!

One comment regarding the new main menu: I like the proportional HP/MP display over the characters, however at the beginning the bars will all be extremely small. How about setting the full bar to the maximum HP/MP among the characters, instead of the max possible HP/MP?

And I am not fully convinced of the gem system. It looks rather overly complicated. Whether this is worth in terms of new tactics, has to be seen however.

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #125 on: April 04, 2018, 01:14:48 am »
One comment regarding the new main menu: I like the proportional HP/MP display over the characters, however at the beginning the bars will all be extremely small. How about setting the full bar to the maximum HP/MP among the characters, instead of the max possible HP/MP?

That's actually quite a good idea, thanks!
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #126 on: April 05, 2018, 10:24:57 am »


I implemented Nepster's suggestion regarding the HP and MP gauges. The menu background looks different because I was also testing out code to allow for different window styles.
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #127 on: April 06, 2018, 02:29:29 am »
Regarding the gem system, it can essentially be broken down to:

1. The character must always have a primary class equipped.
2. The character may equip one unleash skill (basically, limit break), which must be of their primary class.
3. The character may equip up to two different secondary classes, at a cost of one skill slot (see next point).
4. The character may equip up to ten skills, which may be either active (eg. Dark Attack) or passive (eg. HP+10%), subject to three conditions:
--- Any skills equipped must correspond to one of the character's equipped classes, except in the case of neutral skills (eg. HP+10% would be considered neutral, and could be equipped regardless of classes)
--- For each secondary class, only two skills that correspond to it may be equipped.
--- Two copies of the same skill may not simultaneously be equipped.

Beyond that, the only other thing of note is that some gems with one clear primary purpose (such as "let this character use the Fire spell") may also have minor passive side effects - for example, the Fire spell gem might also give the character a slight weakness to Ice and/or a slight resistance to Fire. These side effects would be made clearly visible when viewing the gem's information in game, they are not secret or unknown. This can also allow for giving drawbacks to even having certain skills available, for example, a powerful attack - perhaps the Disaster spell - might have a side effect of that the character's max HP is reduced by 10% when it's equipped. And whereas if skills had similar side effects in the original, you'd either have to choose "go without Disaster" or "have this character lose 10% of their max HP permanently", due to this system if you came across an enemy you really needed that extra HP for, you can simply unequip Disaster for that fight.


I have got an alternative idea I've been thinking about though - not a huge change from the initial one, but significant nonetheless.
1. The character must always have a primary class equipped.
2. The character may equip one unleash skill (basically, limit break), which must be of their primary class.
3. The character may equip up to four skills (active or passive) that correspond to their primary class (or are neutral).
4. The character may equip up to two secondary classes.
5. For each secondary class, the character may equip up to two abilities that correspond to either it, their primary class, or are neutral.

The key differences here are that the secondary class slots cannot be reused as skill slots for characters with only one or two classes, and that the extra slots also function as an unlock bonus when you get far enough to have secondary classes available. Under such a system, there could also be a "neutral class" gem, which essentially does nothing and doesn't allow equipping any new types of skills, but does make the extra slots available (for use of primary class or neutral skills). Thus, initially, the player would have only four skill slots available, but as they progress could get six, and then eight - and around the same time, also become able to equip characters with each others' skills to some extent, while still somewhat enforcing a lean towards the character's primary class (of course, you could change that - although, there isn't really any reason why I couldn't make that one permanent, now that I think about it).

Either way - the gem gear is just a fancy way of displaying it. And the more I think about that, the more I think the fancy display is a bad idea and I should probably scratch that image (but keep the underlying system).
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #128 on: April 14, 2018, 11:40:27 pm »


WIP status screen. At the moment only some basic info is shown - I plan to expand this to show (with details) current equipment, available skills, etc, using the currently unused space.

Note the much simpler gem display, rather than that confusing gem gear stuff. Only the classes (and unleash skill) get the name display, the rest just show the color of the gem (which will generally correspond to what class it is).

Rather than having to pre-create all the different variations, the different colorations (and presence or absence of the star, which signifies an unleash skill gem) are generated on-the-fly at render time. Thanks to GPU rendering, this has virtually no performance impact over having them pre-rendered. :D

The way coloring works (from a user point of view I mean; internally, there's nothing enforcing this) is:
- A class gem will have a white base, and a colored top - eg, the Fighter class gem in this image.
- An unleash skill gem will (base and top) be colored like the class it corresponds to, and have the star - eg, the Swiftslice gem in this image.
- A regular skill gem will (base and top) be colored like the class it corresponds to, but not have the star - no example of this in the above image, but it'd be exactly like the Swiftslice one minus the star.
- A neutral skill gem will be completely white - eg, the unnamed white gem in this image (which if you're curious, is one that boosts HP by 5%, which is also why her HP differs in this shot compared to earlier ones).

That aside, all gauges on the status screen show the stat relative to the stat cap (9999 for HP, 999 for MP, 99 for everything else), rather than relative to the highest in the party. Since the status screen only shows one character at a time, I felt it unnessecary to adjust for highest-in-party here (whereas I felt it made a lot of sense for the main menu screen, or for that matter, for the battle screen).

Despite the lack of the gem gear graphic, the underlying rules still more or less apply. The unleash skill slot, and the four slots under the primary class gem, can only contain a skill that corresponds to the primary class (or is neutral). The two slots under each secondary class slot, can contain a skill that corresponds to that secondary class (but not the other one), the primary class, or are neutral - but they can only be used if the respective secondary class slot has something in it (which must be a class gem of some kind; I will probably add a "neutral" class gem which fills one of these slots simply for the purpose of allowing more primary class (or neutral) gems to be equipped). You cannot equip two of the same gem. You can equip two gems that have the same effect (for example, if both the Fire and Ice skill gem had a side effect of boosting your Magic stat by 5%, you could still equip both of them as they're two different gems), but each specific effect will only be received once (so using the same example, your Magic stat would only increase by 5%, not by 10% or 11.025%). Different but similar effects can still stack - so you could get the combined effect of a gem that gives HP+5% and one that gives HP+10%; just not two that both give HP+5%. (I suspect most cases where gems give identical effects will be variants of each other anyway, such as this example of Fire and Ice).

The whole idea behind these tighter restrictions is that you can no longer head into battle with every skill you've obtained at your disposal - you must think about which ones you want to have for the battle (or area, when preparing for regular encounters) in question. Equipment will remain possible to change in-battle, but gems will only be possible to change outside of battle. With that being said, I plan to make the effects of equipment much less significant; major boosts will come from gems, which mean that in order to gain their benefits, you must sacrifice a skill in its place. And given the lack of any levelling system outside the effects that gems and equipment (and on a temporary basis, status effects) can give you, this can result in some tough decisions - for example, you're preparing Harley for a boss fight; you've decided you absolutely *need* a curative spell, a status heal spell and a revive spell. What's more important for that last slot (we'll just assume he only has access to the four main ones at this point) - boosting his HP by 20%, or also giving him the Haste spell?



EDIT: I have since added displays for current equipment - it shows not only the name of the equipment, but also the traits of it - as well a list of skills, and a list of passive abilities (whether they come from equipment or from gems, or potentially, are inherent to the character - not sure if characters will use the inherent passive abilities feature, it's more intended for enemies, but characters have support for it too just in case).

There's room for up to 10 skills (probably more than a character will ever actually have, given only 9 slots that can actually equip a skill - but there isn't anything that rules out one gem granting more than one skill), and up to 23 passive abilities, to be displayed. Each piece of equipment can have up to four effects, and as the presence of "(empty slot)" under them suggests, I'm at least considering making it possible to some extent to customize the equipment.

Also notice how the weapon effect is described as "Physical Damage+5%". This is part of trying to make ability descriptions more accurate - this is the actual effect of what was described in the original version as "Strength+5%" (it didn't actually affect the Strength stat at all, but increased physical damage directly by 5%). Whereas an ability described as "Strength+5%" (which already also exists) would actually have the effect of raising the Strength stat by 5% of its previous value. The two do not have exactly the same impact on damage, especially taking into account the possibility of skills which do physical damage but aren't affected by the Strength stat (for example, perhaps an attack that does damage equal to 50% of the enemy's HP regardless of user's strength; Strength+5% wouldn't affect this, but Physical Damage+5% would mean it now does damage equal to 52.5% of the enemy's HP).

On a side note, you can also switch quickly between characters rather than having to exit out and go back in, by using Z / X on the keyboard, or the left and right shoulder buttons on a controller. There's no support for doing so with mouse input as of yet (for the record, touch input on mobile devices works identically to mouse input on desktop devices).

I'm not sure off-hand what I'll use the remaining area for. Maybe some of it can go to useless but interesting stats like number of enemies killed. Any suggestions are welcome, though.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 06:27:02 am by namida »
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Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #129 on: June 01, 2018, 10:25:41 pm »
So, I realised I haven't posted updates in a while on this.

Just so you know, the remake attempt definitely isn't abandoned. I just don't have anything new to show, because everything I've been working on in the last few weeks for it is very behind-the-scenes stuff. Specifically, I've split the engine code into two seperate parts - a core package, which contains any code from it that would be useful in general for games; and the rest, code that's specific to this game itself. The main reason, of course, being so that I can re-use the code for other projects - none in mind at this stage, but I'd like to have the really "core" stuff available as a package if/when I do.

That aside, I've also been working on implementing a kind of script interpreter. This would be to handle events, and possibly enemy AI scripts. While initially my intent was to just write actual code and compile it into the EXE, I soon realised that while this works fine for enemy AI, it wouldn't work so well for events - because the code that they run needs to be possible to pause and resume (say for example, if it comes across a "show message box" - it then needs to halt execution until the player closes that message box, then resume from where it left off, which would be quite hard to do the way I originally had in mind). This is coming along quite nicely - although I've yet to actually test it, code's in place that should work for all the basic stuff (conditional branching, looping, managing boolean / numeric variables (haven't implemented support for string ones yet)). Yes, I could grab an existing one or use something like Lua, but there's two issues there - firstly, I hate working with (other people's) premade libraries and avoid it as much as possible (the remake still uses a grand total of one such library that isn't either part of FPC's or Lazarus's standard runtime libraries, or my own); and secondly, I also tend to find most existing scripting languages are awful. (And a distant third - I find doing these kind of challenging tasks fun.)
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #130 on: November 01, 2018, 02:21:53 am »
Forgot to update the download link here when I migrated to OneDrive. It's fixed now.
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline ccexplore

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #131 on: November 01, 2018, 07:51:55 pm »
Slightly out of topic but, what prompted the migration from Dropbox (IIRC) to OneDrive?  More free storage (though I thought Google Drive had more?)?

Offline namida

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Re: [PC][RPG] Legends of an Otherworld
« Reply #132 on: November 01, 2018, 09:23:28 pm »
Slightly out of topic but, what prompted the migration from Dropbox (IIRC) to OneDrive?  More free storage (though I thought Google Drive had more?)?

Better selective sync (Dropbox only lets you choose on the level of individual folders, OneDrive lets you select by individual files; and non-synced files still show up in Windows Explorer and are downloaded on-demand), better price for the 1TB plan ($70/yr on OneDrive, $100/yr on DropBox or Google Drive), can backup multiple folders (Google Drive has this one too, though), free copy of MS Office included (I prefer LibreOffice anyway, but it's useful for the occasional file that LibreOffice doesn't handle properly).

The biggest one was the price though.

Another reason for ruling out Google Drive is the fact that I use it at work; and I do a lot of work stuff on my personal machine. Not using the same provider helps reduce risk of putting something on the wrong account (similarly, I use different browsers for each, too - Firefox for personal stuff, Chrome for work stuff).
« Last Edit: November 02, 2018, 02:15:30 am by namida »
My released level packs:
Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings