ONML Music

[JustDig]

Well first off, hi everyone!
Secondly, I'm sorry but this post got kind of long...

Haha now then, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to point me in the direction of getting my hands on the DOS version of the ONML tracks. I'm looking for either MOD, IT, MIDI or anything of the like where I can get more or less turn it into a midi.

I also don't mind if this directions for extracting myself, or even simply a download to a zip containing them. I was also looking around and it seems a member named ccexplore has some kind of documentation on the adlib file? I could write a program if enough information is in that. I wouldn't mind a little work to get them if need be.

If for some reason I could only somehow get one, it would be "tune 3" specifically.

Why all the excitement for tune 3? Well, about roughly 12 years ago I was playing a version of HOLIDAY Lemmings that used the ONML soundtrack, and when I reached level three I was treated to something amazing. Because of my sound card (I think a SB Live based off it being about the year 2000), the music playing incredibly ambient and soothing. In fact, I swear it sounded almost like whales singing. It was beautiful.

I'm dying to hear that rendition again. I figured if I had the MIDI I could find or construct a soundfont to work with it to be able to reproduce the sound.

Coincidentally, I actually tape recorded the song those 12 years ago just because how much I liked it. On Friday, I will be able to get my hands on that tape and I could try and upload it for you guys to hear if you are curious. Perhaps someone would recognize the soundcard from it too, as I still am not 100% sure which SB it was.

Anyway, thanks for reading this giant tale!

[mobius]

I would be interesting in hearing that. A sound card changing the way a song sounds drastically (in a good way at that!) Is tune 3 the one with a "mysterious or urgent" mood? that's my favorite song.

sorry, I can't help you with finding the files.
("you could write a program?" How come so many smart people or should I say; programmers come here?    )

[Proxima]

You're in luck  A few years back ccexplore made MIDIs of all the ONML tracks for me to include in my Cheapo styles. I don't know how things stand regarding permission to share these files, but the styles were publicly available and the MIDIs could easily be extracted from them, so I assume there's no problem.

Because my Cheapo styles included the 21 Lemmings tracks as well, the ONML tracks are in the right order but the numbers are all (n + 21). My favourite is either number 1 or 4....

[JustDig]

@thick molasses
It's really something. I'll be sure to post it once I get it, although being recorded onto a tape... the quality is pretty bad. I'm sure transferring back to the PC won't help either. But you can still tell at least.

And I don't think it's quite urgent sounding, or at least the Amiga version isn't. It's quite upbeat compared to the chill, soothing tunes the MIDI made.

I've attached the Amiga version in MOD so you know which tune I mean.

Haha, and I don't know about being smart, but I can definitely say programmer! Lemmings must have influenced us all into that career maybe? 

@Proxima
That's fantastic! Um... what is Cheapo? Would you be able to link me to these files? Thanks.

[Proxima]

I already did; just click the link at the bottom of my post.

Cheapo is a clone of Lemmings that has a lot of options for customising the graphics and music by making your own "styles". It used to be one of the more popular Lemmings games (among the forum community) but then got superseded, first by Lemmix and now by Lix.

[JustDig]

@Proxima
Oh, haha. Thanks! I didn't see the link as I was posting right when you were.

And yes, these are PERFECT! Thank you very much for these. I'll see about getting it to sound like it did before.

Oh, interesting. I don't think I even heard of Cheapo before somehow. I used Lemmix a bit myself, but typically stick with the old DOS ones.

I'll post back once I get it in order, or if Friday comes before then and I have the old recording to share.

#EDIT
Actually does anyone know what instruments ONML maps the notes to by chance? That might speed this up a little bit. Haha

[lemmaniack133]

I don't mean to go off-topic, but I'm just wondering, what exactly is Lix? haha

Song 3 was my favorite from ONML too

[mobius]

thanks for this. (27a [under Proxima's upload] is the one that's my favorite)

ya know, somewhere... (it had to be someone here or at Lemmings compendium or some Lemmings site. I got it in the past few months) I got flac files of really well done remakes of all the original songs (beast songs were my favorite). I'll post the link if I find that.
[flac files need a special program to run, VLC media player is a good one]

<And lix is a total user made program by Simon, Geoo and a  bunch of other people here. It's a lot like lemmings but completely different. (not really) I recommend it.

[lemmaniack133]

<And lix is a total user made program by Simon, Geoo and a  bunch of other people here. It's a lot like lemmings but completely different. (not really) I recommend it.

Happen to have a link? And (again, sorry for going off-topic but) I remember seeing a post about some sort of collaboration about Custom Lemmings levels using Lix; what's that about?

To keep slight-on-topic, I LOVE the SNES and Sega Genesis music from the original Lemmings, especially the one from "Now use miners and climbers" and "Down, along, up. In that order" (on both platforms)

[Simon]

Lix homepage. We do development mostly on IRC, and secondly in the forums here. The IRC channel is irc.quakenet.org #lix.

-- Simon

[ccexplore]

Haha now then, I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to point me in the direction of getting my hands on the DOS version of the ONML tracks. I'm looking for either MOD, IT, MIDI or anything of the like where I can get more or less turn it into a midi.

Hmm, you may be better off installing DOSBox and record the music off the emulator that way, for full fidelity.  DOS version (at least the ones I'm used to) uses the Adlib FM Synthesizer of the SoundBlaster cards, which can be pretty tricky to imitate with MOD or MIDI.

It so happens that (assuming I didn't mix up the tunes in my head) in the MIDIs I made for Proxima, I did base ONML Tune3 on the DOS version, via a sort of conversation from the game data to MIDI.  However, it was a draft version, and I found it tricky to find a good set of instruments in MIDI to capture the instruments from the DOS Adlib original, so if I recall correctly every track is still set to piano in that MIDI, and there are probably some wrong notes here and there too.  But I guess you can try working from that draft.

There are also MODs for the Amiga version out there on the Internet, although it's somewhat different enough, that I suspect at least for Tune3 it probably won't suit you as well.

I did mostly figure out how the DOS game stores the music tracks for adlib, but never bothered to document as it is extremely technical and really requires a reasonably solid understanding of how FM synthesis works on the Adlib OPL2 chipset.  But I could review my programs and see if I could take a stab at converting the rest into MIDIs or MODs.  Of course I have no free time nowadays so that won't happen for a while, and thus you are probably better off with the record-audio-off-DOSBox route.

incidentally, I actually tape recorded the song those 12 years ago just because how much I liked it. On Friday, I will be able to get my hands on that tape and I could try and upload it for you guys to hear if you are curious. Perhaps someone would recognize the soundcard from it too, as I still am not 100% sure which SB it was.

I think all the DOS versions of ONML tunes simply use the Adlib FM sythesizer that comes with most Sound Blaster cards, so I don't think it matters much which model of SoundBlaster it is or what soundfont you are using (soundfonts not applicable to FM synthesis).  But just in case you somehow do have a special version we don't know about, I'd love to hear your tape-recorded version to see if it's any different from what I'm used to.

[JustDig]

@ ccexplore
Oh I definitely am finding out the imitation issues alright haha! Although using DOSBox won't work as the FM emulation is far different sounding from that of the other sound card.

The MIDI you gave Proxima is very close indeed! I don't think I recognized any notes being wrong, but of course it was a tiny hard to tell when I left them all on the piano track. The only thing was, I thought I read on these forums somewhere that the DOS version limited itself to only 3 tracks in a sort of "carry-over" with/from the Amiga programming. The MIDI Proxima had uses 14 tracks with some being blank. I mean it is certainly not a problem, but I was quite curious by that.

And I have to agree with it using the FM Synthesizer, but definitely have a strong feeling they must have tweaked it after the 2000's. Is there any information on them possibly updating it or something? Once I get the recording, you'll see how incredibly different they are from the "standard" FM Synthesizer. Quite literally night and day, in terms of the song's "mood".

I think it might be important to note that I also heard the same "whale singing" rendition on more than just my computer. I noticed it on another friends computer (around that time).

Also, you wouldn't happen to have some kind of table of the "instruments" the synthesizer uses would you? As in frequencies/ranges more specifically? Then I could try to re-create it, at least to a degree, if I have no other options available.

*EDIT
I was reading up on the Sound Blaster AWE32 card. Apparently it as an ability to "add effects to the output" of OPL-3 FM Synthesis, at least according to its Wikipedia entry. I'm going to investigate this a little more as it sounds like this might just be the answer.

[ccexplore]

Oh I definitely am finding out the imitation issues alright haha! Although using DOSBox won't work as the FM emulation is far different sounding from that of the other sound card.

There are some settings in the DOSBox configuration that can be tweaked to get better emulation for Adlib:

[sblaster]sbtype=sb16
sbbase=220
irq=7
dma=1
hdma=5
sbmixer=true
oplmode=auto
oplemu=default
oplrate=49716

In particular, setting oplrate to the max (see above) is necessary in order for tune3 to sound correct in DOSBox.  I haven't tried other settings, maybe other tweaks can help you get closer to what you get on actual hardware?  (To be fair, I don't have any real hardware to compare the DOSBox emulation to anymore.)

I thought I read on these forums somewhere that the DOS version limited itself to only 3 tracks in a sort of "carry-over" with/from the Amiga programming. The MIDI Proxima had uses 14 tracks with some being blank. I mean it is certainly not a problem, but I was quite curious by that.

You read correct.  What happened is that when I wrote my conversion program, I splitted each instrument in each track into their own track in MIDI.  It was to make it easier for me to adjust instrumentations using the rather primitive MIDI-editing programs I had at my disposal.

definitely have a strong feeling they must have tweaked it after the 2000's.  Is there any information on them possibly updating it or something?

That seems a tad unlikely as I thought they didn't really work on Lemmings much anymore after 2000 (when Lemmings Revolution was released), until the franchise got picked up by Sony a few years later, at which point they didn't really do anything with ONML at all (in any case they no longer use any of the music from the original).  I suppose it's possible there could be some DOS version out there made earlier, that has slightly different music, but it's certainly the first time I heard of such for ONML.  So I'm definitely looking forward to see what your recording sounds like.

Also, you wouldn't happen to have some kind of table of the "instruments" the synthesizer uses would you? As in frequencies/ranges more specifically? Then I could try to re-create it, at least to a degree, if I have no other options available.

The conversion program outputs instrument parameters as well from the game data, but they are basically raw values written to the OPL registers.  I'm not sure how much it will help you?

[JustDig]

There are some settings in the DOSBox configuration that can be tweaked to get better emulation for Adlib:

[sblaster]sbtype=sb16
sbbase=220
irq=7
dma=1
hdma=5
sbmixer=true
oplmode=auto
oplemu=default
oplrate=49716

In particular, setting oplrate to the max (see above) is necessary in order for tune3 to sound correct in DOSBox.  I haven't tried other settings, maybe other tweaks can help you get closer to what you get on actual hardware?  (To be fair, I don't have any real hardware to compare the DOSBox emulation to anymore.)

Oh yes, that's actually the very first option I tweak in DOSBox actually. Then immediately followed by ensuring that it uses the "original" resolution and does not stretch or otherwise distort it. I never had it on a lower setting, I'll have to try it to hear the difference.

You read correct.  What happened is that when I wrote my conversion program, I splitted each instrument in each track into their own track in MIDI.  It was to make it easier for me to adjust instrumentations using the rather primitive MIDI-editing programs I had at my disposal.

Ah, I sort of had the feeling that might be the case. Just wanted to double check on that. Thanks!

Quote
definitely have a strong feeling they must have tweaked it after the 2000's.  Is there any information on them possibly updating it or something?

That seems a tad unlikely as I thought they didn't really work on Lemmings much anymore after 2000 (when Lemmings Revolution was released), until the franchise got picked up by Sony a few years later, at which point they didn't really do anything with ONML at all (in any case they no longer use any of the music from the original).  I suppose it's possible there could be some DOS version out there made earlier, that has slightly different music, but it's certainly the first time I heard of such for ONML.  So I'm definitely looking forward to see what your recording sounds like.

Oh, haha. I meant that they may have tweaked the OPL chip on the SB cards during the 2000s, not tweaking the lemmings games. Probably should have made that a little more clear. 

The conversion program outputs instrument parameters as well from the game data, but they are basically raw values written to the OPL registers.  I'm not sure how much it will help you?

Ah, that might be great actually! If I can find out what exactly was going on with my crazy SB card (like the possibility of it actually altering the sound from the OPL chip from what I read), maybe I can reproduce it correctly by starting with waveforms of the OPL instruments used and then going forward from there. But it's highly likely if the SB card did alter it, I may never be able to look up exactly how it did it, making all this relatively moot.

But I guess it would help more if you can hear it...

Speaking of, I'm actually going back to my parents house for Easter weekend tomorrow, so I could grab the cassette that night and upload a day early. I'm very excited to see what you guys can make out of it so I wouldn't be surprised if I get it posted on here by 10:00PM (-6 GMT) tomorrow, if not earlier.

Thanks for all the help you guys have given so far though! I really appreciate it!

*EDIT

Erm, one other probability (though I doubt it) hit me... was there any difference in the instruments between the Holiday version and ONML? From what I understand, they are identical in notes and how the instruments are, but I could be wrong.

[JustDig]

Here we are, the recording of Tune 3 from how I was accustomed to hearing it! You can image my surprise when I heard the Amiga version of it, or even the "usual" DOS version for that matter.

Keep in mind, this was recorded from a cassette tape... in which the tune was recorded twelve or so years ago... on a cheap tape deck... from a 2000's computer... using a 1992's speakers...

It's quite in terrible condition, BUT you can still definitely hear the tune and the instruments... even the deep "whale singing" type of sound I loved. The "drum" type of instrument is a bit overblown so it doesn't sound correct, but the rest held up great (considering all things...)

Enjoy! I hope it helps you, help me, help myself to be able to create it.

*EDIT
The beginning is cut off, but I recorded it looping almost three times so you'll catch it the second time around. Tape gets a bit messy the second loop too...