Author Topic: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?  (Read 31111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2010, 12:26:46 AM »
To take a breather and get some obvious stuff out of the way, I've confirmed that all of Tame can be done left and right, 100%, no glitches.  PM if anyone has questions on those levels.  It's either trivial or just the standard set of basic wrong-way techniques.

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2010, 09:31:03 PM »
Tricky 14 left improved to 100%. This wasn't really any harder than the sloppy 87% solution I put together before (in fact in some ways it was easier...)

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #32 on: December 25, 2010, 11:47:06 PM »
On to Taxing now:

Taxing 2R can be done with 100%.
Taxing 4 is doable both ways, and for R 100% is possible (clearly 100% L is not due to the trap). 100% appears to require glitches though, whether incidental (digging parts of steel blocks, or "accidentally" blocking the wall traps' trigger areas) or blatant. I couldn't get a standard block-and-build solution to work for 100% anyway, so I used sliding instead ;)

Replays attached for all of these; I put the three Taxing 4 replays together in one zip.

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 05:40:52 AM »
And the rest of Taxing (I think...)

15: left, 100%
18: right with no glitches (previous solution used the bash-under-OWW trick)
19: left
22: right, 100% without glitches (previous solution used steel glitches)
25: right, 100%
26: right, 100% (with glitches; as far as I can tell glitches are required for any solution, not just 100%)

Zip with replays attached.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 08:20:56 AM »
Add Taxing 16, right.  There was a 1-minute solution posted which only did one left move to make it fit within Lemmix's 1 minute (ie. without pause trick); attached is the original, slightly slower attempt that is completely right-only.  This is non-100% and glitch, I doubt it can be improved either way.

Also, Lemmix does 3-entrance ordering correctly for DOS Lemmings, it was only all the other games (eg. ONML, Xmas, etc.) that are wrong, so the entrance editing is not necessary for Taxing 26 (though it doesn't hurt).

[edit: also, Taxing 29 and Taxing 30 (R 100% for both), already pointed out by LemSteven early in the thread, are missing in your table] (fixed)

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2010, 09:05:22 AM »
Oh... whoops, whoops and whoops. (3 in one go, I'm on fire! :-[)


Quote
Add Taxing 16, right.
I just skipped over this one since there's obviously no left solution. Forgot we still hadn't checked right :-\


Quote
Also, Lemmix does 3-entrance ordering correctly for DOS Lemmings
Lemmix is a strange beast... can't blame me for forgetting that ;)


Quote
also, Taxing 29 and Taxing 30
were on my list but somehow got deleted (I might have wrongly put the numbers in the "non-100%" section instead of the list of solved levels)


Should all be fixed now... but then again, it's doubtful. :XD:

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2010, 05:23:55 PM »
Mayhem 25 right, 100%, no glitches.

[edit: looks like the steel area extends slightly further right then it looks.  Just imagine digging 1 pixel further right, and down the full 7 pixels instead of just 4]

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2010, 07:38:12 PM »
Mayhem 26 Left (no glitches).

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2011, 10:27:17 PM »
Before this challenge fizzles out like many others, here are a bunch of preliminary results for Mayhem, so at least we have almost complete results for one of the Lemmings games:

(100% no-glitch unless otherwise stated.  Results marked * means not actually confirmed via playing, but pretty obviously possible.)

Mayhem 1: R non-100%
Mayhem 2: L non-100%*
Mayhem 3: R
Mayhem 4: R, L non-100%
Mayhem 5: none
Mayhem 6: none
Mayhem 7: R*
Mayhem 8: R*
Mayhem 9: none
Mayhem 10: R non-100%
Mayhem 11: R*
Mayhem 12: R* (glitch)
Mayhem 13: R
Mayhem 14: R*
Mayhem 15: R
Mayhem 16: R
Mayhem 17: R*
Mayhem 18: didn't try
Mayhem 19: none
Mayhem 20: none
Mayhem 21: R*
Mayhem 22: R*
Mayhem 23: L
Mayhem 24: none
Mayhem 25: R
Mayhem 26: R non-100%*, L non-100%
Mayhem 27: R*
Mayhem 28: L*
Mayhem 29: none
Mayhem 30: R

Unsurprisingly, due to tight skill counts (and often lack of blockers), there are very few "wrong way" solutions or otherwise solutions markedly different from the standard.

I'll attach replays later.  Below are comments on selected levels:

Quote from: highlight to read
Mayhem 2: L 100% glitch not yet attempted, looks somewhat plausible based on generous number of builders and climbers

Mayhem 14: a wrong-way (left) solution is not completely ruled out yet but is tricky at best.  First, note that you do not have enough skills to brute force your way horizontally across the base of the bowl (ie. where the steel blocks touch the ground).  And a sliding-trick solution would require handling the right side of the bowl with left-facing lemmings.  At a minimum, I believe this means you need to brute force your way horizontally across the base of the bowl to the right far enough, send some lemmings up the bottom of the bowl via sliding trick, and then use a blocker or similar to turn a left-facing lemming right after assigning it exploder, so it explodes appropriately at the right side of the bowl, allowing further left-facing moves glitching through the steel to get out of  the bowl (assuming you have enough skills left at that point to do so anyway!)

Mayhem 18: a right solution simply hasn't been attempted yet.  Due to the steel, glitches are almost certainly required, and due to limited availability of non-exploder terrain-removal skills, non-100% is also quite likely.  A left solution looks unlikely, due to difficulties with using only left-facing lemmings to set up in time a safe path for the upper-right entrance.

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2011, 05:42:53 AM »
Here's Mayhem 18 right (glitch, non-100%), nothing too difficult really. For a left-only run, I found a way to get to the top-right entrance (attached), losing 6 lemmings (fewer might be possible but would require many more skills), but still a full solution looks unlikely.

Also, I've checked through all the other results in your post, no real surprises there.

Offline LemSteven

  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2011, 06:48:32 AM »
I've got some preliminary results for Crazy.  A few of these may be improvable with wrong way solutions.

1: R (100%, blocker forcing lemming into wall glitch), L
2: L (100%)
3: R
4: R (100%)
5: R (100%)
6: R (100%)
8: R (Maybe 100%?)
9: R (100%)
11: R, L
12: R (100%)
13: R
15: R (100%, steel glitch)
16: R (100%)
17: R (100%)
18: R
19: R
20: R (100%)

Offline Clam

  • Posts: 2187
  • Smiley: :8():
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2011, 09:38:30 AM »
I can add Crazy 1 right without glitches (but not 100%), so it's "glitch for 100%" rather than needing glitches just to pass.

Also, here's Crazy 2 right.

Offline Nortaneous

  • Posts: 108
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2011, 06:38:51 PM »
Covox Lemmings:

Fun 1 - 100% LR*
Fun 2 - 100% R
Tricky 1 - 100% R* (this is incredibly hard to pull off, as far as I can tell)
Tricky 2 - no idea
Taxing 1 - might be able to 100% R but I hate timing builders like that
Taxing 2 - 100% R
Mayhem 1 - 100% R*
Mayhem 2 - R

* = I didn't try it, but it seems obvious enough

Offline LemSteven

  • Posts: 559
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2011, 05:22:03 AM »
First half of Wild:

1: R (100%), L (100%)
2: R (100%)
3: R (100%)
4: L (100%)
5: R, L
6: L (100%)
8: R (100%)
9: Nuke glitch

Edit: Added Wild 5L.  This one just barely works, so it is quite hairy even if you know how to do it.  Details are explained in the hint below.

Quote from: highlight to read
Everything is straightforward until the building at the end.  The first builder starts left from the wall at the far right.  When he runs out of bricks, he blocks as far left as possible without falling off the bridge.  Another lemming builds as close to the blocker as possible, turns, and hits the wall farther up.  The third builder goes left and then blocks at the far left edge of his bridge, and the fourth builder is used right next to the blocker.

That sounds pretty easy, but the pesky overhang on the left edge of the exit platform limits the number of bricks the fourth builder can lay down.  In addition, it requires the third builder to start low enough so that he doesn't hit his head.  As a result, every single bridge must be placed in a pixel-precise location, or you won't gain enough altitude to reach the exit.  In particular, the second and fourth bridges must start at the very top of the first and third bridges, respectively.  This in turn requires the first and third bridges to be placed such that the lemmings can step on the top brick before hitting the blocker's force field.

Offline ccexplore

  • Posts: 5311
    • View Profile
Re: What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?
« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2011, 08:46:09 PM »
Here's Wild 9 L and R 100% no-glitch.