What if you could only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction?

[Clam]

Since the forum is picking up (), I think now's a good time for a new challenge.

Inspired by one challenge I saw in the Oh No! More Challenges! thread. Let's imagine your directional select controls get stuck, and you can only assign skills to lemmings facing in one direction. Which levels can you still solve?

I will list which levels are solvable, and in which directions (some levels can be done both ways ), and tag solutions with 100% or glitch as appropriate. "Glitch for 100%" means the level can be completed without glitches, but 100% is achievable only with glitches.

Lemmings

Fun
L: 1, 4, 6, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 17 (glitch for 100%), 18, 21, 22, 24, 25, 28, 30. Non-100%: 6, 18.
R: All except 3. Non-100%: 6, 18, 28.

Tricky
L: 6, 8, 9 (glitch), 11, 14, 15, 20 (glitch), 21 (glitch), 26, 28. Non-100%: 8, 15, 20, 21.
R: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (glitch), 8, 9 (glitch), 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30. Non-100%: 8, 15, 16, 17, 18, 23, 27.

Taxing
L: 4, 6, 15, 19, 20. Non-100%: 4, 6, 19.
R: 1, 2, 3, 4 (glitch for 100%), 5, 6 (glitch for 100%), 7 (glitch), 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, 15, 16 (glitch), 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26 (glitch), 27, 29, 30. Non-100%: 7, 16, 18, 19, 27.

Mayhem
L: 2, 4, 23, 26, 28. Non-100%: 2, 4, 26.
R: 1, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 (glitch), 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 (glitch), 21, 22, 25, 26, 27, 30. Non-100%: 1, 10, 18, 26.



Oh No! More Lemmings

Tame
Both ways: all 100%

Crazy
L: 1, 2, 9, 11, 16, 19 (glitch). Non-100%: 1, 11, 19.
R: 1 (glitch for 100%), 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 15 (glitch), 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. Non-100%: 3, 11.

Wild
L: 1, 4, 5, 6, 9. Non-100%: 5.
R: 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 9, 11 (glitch), 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18, 19 (glitch for 100%), 20. Non-100%: 5, 11, 12, 13, 15, 18, 20.

Wicked (note: format is 100% instead of non-100%)
L: 1, 8, 17 (glitch for 100%). 100%: 17.
R: 1, 3 (glitch), 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19. 100%: 3, 11, 13, 14, 18.

Havoc
L: 3, 4, 7, 18 (glitch). Non-100%: 7.
R: 1, 6, 7, 10, 11 (glitch), 13, 15. Non-100%: 7, 10, 15.



Holiday Lemmings

Xmas 91
L: 2. (100%)
R: 1. (100%)

Xmas 92
L: 2. (100%)
R: all 100%

Flurry
L: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12. (All 100%)
R: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 (glitch). Non-100%: 16.

Blitz
L: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 12, 14. 100%: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 14. Non-100%: 12.
R: All. Non-100%: 12, 15, 16.

Frost
L: 1, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9. (All 100%)
R: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13 (glitch), 14, 15. Non-100%: 14.

Hail
L: 2, 6, 11. Non-100%: 2, 6.
R: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. Non-100%: 2, 5, 6.



Covox Lemmings

L: 1, 2. (Both 100%)
R: All except 4. (All 100%)



Bonus Levels

L: 1, 5, 8, 10, 13. Non-100%: 1.
R: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16. Non-100%: 6.

[Simon]

Each listed level without a percentage is 100 percent.

Fun: 1RL, 2R, (3 neither way), 4RL, 5R, 6RL, 7R, 8R (speed mine), 9RL lose 1 (with 100 % for R), 10R, 11R, 12R lose 1, 13R, 14R, 15R, 16R, 17L lose several (maybe also R?), 18RL lose 5, 19R, 20R, 21R, (22 probably neither way), (23 done by Clam), 24RL lose several (with 100 % for R), 25RL (mine away from walls to get through), 26R, (27 neither way), 28L lose 1 (must check for 100 %), (29 neither), 30L.

-- Simon

[Adam]

Tricky: 30R

[Adam]

I'm very tired right now, so no doubt I've screwed up here, but I think this is Fun 28L with 100%.

[Clam]

Tricky: 30R

And here's Tricky 30L (using glitches).

I'm very tired right now, so no doubt I've screwed up here, but I think this is Fun 28L with 100%.

Looks like the first lemming was going right when you assigned the floater. I'm gonna need more evidence before I can call this one solved.

[ccexplore]

Fun 9 can be 100% even for L, see attached.  In a similar vein (also attached), L works for Fun 11 and even 100%.

[edit: Fun 30 R 100% added]

More to come later.

[Adam]

Okay, Clammo... there!

[Adam]

Another double post, ftw.

Fun 17R - 98% using bashing through steel glitch.

Edit: Fun 17R - 100% using bashing through steel glitch.

[chaos_defrost]

Each listed level without a percentage is 100 percent.

Fun: 1RL, 2R, (3 neither way), 4RL, 5R, 6RL, 7R, 8R (speed mine), 9RL lose 1 (with 100 % for R), 10R, 11R, 12R lose 1, 13R, 14R, 15R, 16R, 17L lose several (maybe also R?), 18RL lose 5, 19R, 20R, 21R, (22 probably neither way), (23 done by Clam), 24RL lose several (with 100 % for R), 25RL (mine away from walls to get through), 26R, (27 neither way), 28L lose 1 (must check for 100 %), (29 neither), 30L.

-- Simon

17 R is trivial (lose the maximum allowable) - bash right, make 20 right facing lemmings floaters. Boom. 22 might be possible with R using the blockers + bashers only trick in the fewest types of skills challenge. 27 in versions with direct drop R is likely possible.

[Adam]

Fun 22 - R - 100%

[chaos_defrost]

I'll do a preliminary runthrough of Tricky by eyeballing -- these might be improvable.

1) R (100% possible)
2) R (100% required)
3) R (100% maybe?)
4) R (100% possible, build over the arrow structure)
5) R (100% possible)
6) R (100% possible)
7) impossible
L (build through the thin layers)
9) guessing impossible, steel glitching?
10) impossible
11) R? It seems feasible...
12) R (100% possible)
13) R I think (steel glitching)
14) R (100% possible)
15) LR (100% obv impossible)
16) R (100% obv impossible)
17) R (why so many bomber timing levels at once?)
18) R (lose 1)
19) impossible
20) R? (I think you might be able to go under the OWW)
21) R (100% possible)
22) R (lose 2)
23) I'm going to guess impossible, but R might be possible.
24) R
25) R
26) R (100% required)
27) impossible
28) LR (100% for both possible)
29) R (100% probably possible)
30) [done]

There's a few that need verification but a lot of them are trivial

[Clam]

I will list which levels are solvable, and in which directions (some levels can be done both ways ), and tag solutions with 100% or glitch as appropriate.

Actually, since we haven't sorted out exactly what constitutes a glitch and what doesn't, maybe we should just forget about glitch solutions?

[LemSteven]

Here's what I've got in my preliminary work with Taxing:
1: R (100%)
3: R (100%)
5: R (100%)
6: R (100%; uses steel bashing glitch), L
7: R (Uses steel glitches to go under the OWW)
8: R (100%)
9: R (100%)
10: R (100%)
12: R (100%)
14: R (100%)
15: R (100%)
17: R (100%)
18: R (Uses steel glitches to go under the OWW)
19: R
20: R (100%), L (100%)
21: R (100%)
22: R (100% with steel glitch)
24: R (100%)
25: R
27: R
29: R (100%)
30: R (100%)

Edit: Various improvements to Insane Steve's Tricky results
3: R (100%)
10: R (100%) Use the left group to save the right.
11: R (Using sliding glitch)
13: R (100%; uses steel glitches)
19: R (100%)
20: R (100%)
23: R
24: R (100%)
27: R (Steel bashing)

Edit 2:  Added a couple of "wrong way" solutions to Taxing

[ccexplore]

Since people seem to have trouble with Fun 27 , here attached is R, 100%, no glitch for that level.

[ccexplore]

Fun 12 L, 100%, no glitch.  Fun 12 R 100% no-glitch is also pretty easy (see spoiler below):

Just dig shallow pit and build, to prevent lemmings from falling off the left.

[Clam]

I've been working through the "wrong-way" solutions for Fun. In addition to the ones already mentioned, I've done:

14L
15L
17L
21L
22L
24L
29R

All with 100%. Zip with relpays attached.


Also:

since we haven't sorted out exactly what constitutes a glitch and what doesn't, maybe we should just forget about glitch solutions?

If we do consider it a glitch, I bashed through the top of the steel on 17.

[chaos_defrost]

Edit: Various improvements to Insane Steve's Tricky results
3: R (100%)
10: R (100%) Use the left group to save the right).
11: R (Using sliding glitch)
13: R (100%; uses steel glitches)
19: R (100%)
20: R (100%)
23: R
24: R (100%)
27: R (Steel bashing)

Wow, 19 and 27 are R possible? Nice.

I thought about it and 8 might have an R solution also. The save percent and number of skills is pretty generous.

[ccexplore]

Tricky 26 L 100%.  I did have to use the miner glitch at the end though.

[edit: I guess miner glitch is somewhat besides the point since I already used the "push lemming into wall via blocker" glitch/trick?]

[Clam]

I thought about it and 8 might have an R solution also. The save percent and number of skills is pretty generous.

It certainly does, but 100% looks unlikely.

Tricky 7R is possible too, with a similar method to Fun 15L. 100% is probably doable, but I'm gonna have to start over and save a builder or two...

Both replays attached (though expect an update on 7).

[chaos_defrost]

I thought about it and 8 might have an R solution also. The save percent and number of skills is pretty generous.

It certainly does, but 100% looks unlikely.

Tricky 7R is possible too, with a similar method to Fun 15L. 100% is probably doable, but I'm gonna have to start over and save a builder or two...

Both replays attached (though expect an update on 7).

Actually, after watching all of your "wrong way" solutions to the Fun levels, I suspect similar ideas can be possible for Tricky also. I pretty much just did the obvious grunt work for those levels 

EDIT: Yea, I think a lot of my "one way only" initial guesses can be made both ways. 100% may not be possible for the wrong way solutions, but they are very likely possible using the tricks I saw in your Fun replays.

[LemSteven]

Actually, after watching all of your "wrong way" solutions to the Fun levels, I suspect similar ideas can be possible for Tricky also. I pretty much just did the obvious grunt work for those levels 

The same goes for my work in Taxing.  Case in point, I've got a 100% Left solution to Taxing 20.

[Clam]

Here's Tricky 7R 100%. I'm not absolutely sure I assigned the climbers facing the right way, but even if I didn't, it's certainly possible to do so (and on any frame you choose).

(edit) uses direct drop, by the way...

[Clam]

Here's another insane wrong-way solution: Tricky 6L, 100%.

[ccexplore]

Tricky 20, Left.

[edit: added screenshots and quick spoiler summary in case they are needed.  However, I don't want to do screenshots unless someone absolutely can't watch the replays, so only if someone PMs requesting for screenshots will I consider doing them]

The key idea is to use a blocker to push at least 2 lemmings into the one-way wall so they are stuck (and free the blocker so the next part works properly).  When you have stuck lemmings climb, their facing direction will alternate between left and right as they slowly move up, making it possible to assign exploder while they are climbing instead of before

[ccexplore]

Tricky 22 R 100%.  Basically just a minor variation of the 100% builders-only challenge for that level (though not builders-only this time).

[Clam]

Here's Tricky 9 100% both ways (with massive steel abuse), and Tricky 11L 100%. 11R is easy enough to do by making a basher staircase, building into the wall first to gain some height.

[ccexplore]

Fun 28 was given up on a little too easily.  Attached is a wrong-way (right) solution.  Talk about brute force!

[edit: added a verbal description of solution.  No screenshots unless someone demands it in PM.]

At the lower ground level, you need a lemming to dig/mine himself a little bit into the ground, and then use a blocker to force the right-facing basher to continue bashing left.  If he's low enough when he started bashing left, his bashing will be stopped by the steel on the left end.  The replay shows one way of doing it although in hindsight, what you see there is probably more complex than needed.

The rest is to brute force your way up to the height of where the exit is, doing zigzagging staircases with blockers.  You need to be horizontally close to the exit, so that you don't ever need to build twice consecutively facing left.  You can build once facing left by building facing right, close to a blocker.  You can also assign blockers on the left end of the zigzag by taking advantage of the platforms that get in the way of the zigzag, which can interrupt a left-facing builder causing him to stop building and turn right, giving you the opportunity to assign blocker then.  Use exploders and other skills to clear stuff that gets in the way of your building the zigzag.  Be sure to use the technique of squeezing a builder between two blockers close together, that way the builder will gain a lot of height without gaining much horizontal distance.  That will be the primary way for you to get high enough to explode a sizable hole into whatever platforms are overhead and in the way.
 

[Clam]

Edit: Various improvements to Insane Steve's Tricky results

...

13: R (100%; uses steel glitches)

...

27: R (Steel bashing)

Thanks to the lack of water, you don't need glitches on 13 (replay attached). Also, for 27, you can bash under the one-way wall, and build with blockers to the exit to complete the level without using glitches. (The next thing is to check for 100% with glitches, not sure how that'll turn out)

Tricky 26 L 100%.  I did have to use the miner glitch at the end though.

[edit: I guess miner glitch is somewhat besides the point since I already used the "push lemming into wall via blocker" glitch/trick?]

I managed it without glitches (replay attached)


Tricky 30R can easily be improved to 100%, using the replay Adam posted earlier. Since he only lost lemmings from climbing off to the left, you can dig a barrier to stop them and get 100%.


Tricky 25R is possible to get 100% on - it turns out my old no-floater replay is a right-only solution as well!


Updating the list for Tricky now, though there are still some more possibilities to check out.

[ccexplore]

Just when you think wrong-way Fun 28 can't be topped, here comes Tricky 21 Left.  Now I know what the 666 really means.

The key trick is a variation of "push walker through thin wall via blocker" trick/glitch: you can use that technique to actually get a lemming to build "through" a 1-pixel thin wall:
    1) wait for the lemming to just turn around at the wall.  At that point he is standing right at the column of pixels that makes up the wall.
    2) have him start building
    3) anytime before he moves up onto the first build brick he lays down, set a blocker next to the builder.  This will flip the builder's facing direction so he continues on the other way, through the wall.   The game only checks for obstacles in front of the builder, but since he actually started at the wall, the wall is neither in front nor behind the builder, and thus will not interrupt the builder.

So this allows you to build a full 12-brick bridge to the right, but as you know, that's not wide enough to span the distance between the leftmost 6 and the middle 6.  And so here's the grand (and messy) plan to get around that problem:  we first use the build trick above repeatedly to create a stack of full bridges.  In my replay, the stack consists of 8 bridges.  The lemmings that build those bridges are sacrificed (as are occasionally some innocent bystanders that happened to be pushed through the wall by the blocker).  The stack looks something like this:


            XXXXXXXX...
          XXXXXXXXXX...
        X+XXXXXXXXXX...
      XXX+XXXXXXXXXX...
    XXXXX+XXXXXXXXXX...
  XXXXXXX+XXXXXXXXXX...
XXXXXXXXX+XXXXXXXXXX...
XXXXXXXXX+XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX+XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX+XXXX
XXXXXXXXX+XX
++++++++++
++++++++
++++++


Now imagine using various terrain destruction skills (eg. exploders, and bashers' "backstrokes") to take out all the X pixels, leaving just the +'s (or something close to that).  Notice how the +'s basically form a new 1-pixel thin wall, but 9 pixels away from the original thin wall?  This allows you to do the build trick against this new wall, and as we gained 9 pixels with this setup, we can now span the gap with one full bridge starting at the new wall.

Thankfully the distance between the middle and right 6's are less than the length of a full bridge, so once you get to the middle 6, the rest is (relatively) easy.
 

One question that remains, as I review my solution, is whether 100% is possible.  It does use up a lot more builders though, so there's question of whether you have enough skills and enough time, not to mention some "luck" to avoid accidentally pushing lemmings through a wall into oblivion when applying blockers, which is why I didn't try for 100% on this first stab at it.  Below is an outline of how to modify the above scheme for 100%:

Instead of building a stack of 8 full bridges to create the new wall (but sacrificing each lemming that builds one of the 8 bridges), you will have them build starting one pixel left of the wall, so they can't actually go through the wall.  You will end up with a stack of single build bricks, each protruding 4 pixels through the wall (think Insane Steve's "The Razor's Edge").  This in effect allows you to form a new 1-pixel thin wall, but only 4 pixels away from the original.  So applying this process 3 times, and you will have gained enough distance to span the gap with one full bridge.

Obviously this uses up a lot more builders, but you don't really need much for the remaining parts of the level (my wastefulness in the replay nonwithstanding), so with 66 builders you might still have enough, we'll have to see.  If nothing else, I could do some preliminary (but careful) calculations to see if you go over 66 builders or not.
 

[Clam]

 

...

 

...

 


File that alongside geoo's Tame 13. That is legendary.






For what it's worth (which is still something I guess), here's Tricky 14 left. (EDIT: removed, superseded by a 100% solution)

[ccexplore]

To take a breather and get some obvious stuff out of the way, I've confirmed that all of Tame can be done left and right, 100%, no glitches.  PM if anyone has questions on those levels.  It's either trivial or just the standard set of basic wrong-way techniques.

[Clam]

Tricky 14 left improved to 100%. This wasn't really any harder than the sloppy 87% solution I put together before (in fact in some ways it was easier...)

[Clam]

On to Taxing now:

Taxing 2R can be done with 100%.
Taxing 4 is doable both ways, and for R 100% is possible (clearly 100% L is not due to the trap). 100% appears to require glitches though, whether incidental (digging parts of steel blocks, or "accidentally" blocking the wall traps' trigger areas) or blatant. I couldn't get a standard block-and-build solution to work for 100% anyway, so I used sliding instead

Replays attached for all of these; I put the three Taxing 4 replays together in one zip.

[Clam]

And the rest of Taxing (I think...)

15: left, 100%
18: right with no glitches (previous solution used the bash-under-OWW trick)
19: left
22: right, 100% without glitches (previous solution used steel glitches)
25: right, 100%
26: right, 100% (with glitches; as far as I can tell glitches are required for any solution, not just 100%)

Zip with replays attached.

[ccexplore]

Add Taxing 16, right.  There was a 1-minute solution posted which only did one left move to make it fit within Lemmix's 1 minute (ie. without pause trick); attached is the original, slightly slower attempt that is completely right-only.  This is non-100% and glitch, I doubt it can be improved either way.

Also, Lemmix does 3-entrance ordering correctly for DOS Lemmings, it was only all the other games (eg. ONML, Xmas, etc.) that are wrong, so the entrance editing is not necessary for Taxing 26 (though it doesn't hurt).

[edit: also, Taxing 29 and Taxing 30 (R 100% for both), already pointed out by LemSteven early in the thread, are missing in your table] (fixed)

[Clam]

Oh... whoops, whoops and whoops. (3 in one go, I'm on fire! )

Add Taxing 16, right.

I just skipped over this one since there's obviously no left solution. Forgot we still hadn't checked right

Also, Lemmix does 3-entrance ordering correctly for DOS Lemmings

Lemmix is a strange beast... can't blame me for forgetting that

also, Taxing 29 and Taxing 30

were on my list but somehow got deleted (I might have wrongly put the numbers in the "non-100%" section instead of the list of solved levels)


Should all be fixed now... but then again, it's doubtful.

[ccexplore]

Mayhem 25 right, 100%, no glitches.

[edit: looks like the steel area extends slightly further right then it looks.  Just imagine digging 1 pixel further right, and down the full 7 pixels instead of just 4]

[ccexplore]

Mayhem 26 Left (no glitches).

[ccexplore]

Before this challenge fizzles out like many others, here are a bunch of preliminary results for Mayhem, so at least we have almost complete results for one of the Lemmings games:

(100% no-glitch unless otherwise stated.  Results marked * means not actually confirmed via playing, but pretty obviously possible.)

Mayhem 1: R non-100%
Mayhem 2: L non-100%*
Mayhem 3: R
Mayhem 4: R, L non-100%
Mayhem 5: none
Mayhem 6: none
Mayhem 7: R*
Mayhem 8: R*
Mayhem 9: none
Mayhem 10: R non-100%
Mayhem 11: R*
Mayhem 12: R* (glitch)
Mayhem 13: R
Mayhem 14: R*
Mayhem 15: R
Mayhem 16: R
Mayhem 17: R*
Mayhem 18: didn't try
Mayhem 19: none
Mayhem 20: none
Mayhem 21: R*
Mayhem 22: R*
Mayhem 23: L
Mayhem 24: none
Mayhem 25: R
Mayhem 26: R non-100%*, L non-100%
Mayhem 27: R*
Mayhem 28: L*
Mayhem 29: none
Mayhem 30: R

Unsurprisingly, due to tight skill counts (and often lack of blockers), there are very few "wrong way" solutions or otherwise solutions markedly different from the standard.

I'll attach replays later.  Below are comments on selected levels:

Mayhem 2: L 100% glitch not yet attempted, looks somewhat plausible based on generous number of builders and climbers

Mayhem 14: a wrong-way (left) solution is not completely ruled out yet but is tricky at best.  First, note that you do not have enough skills to brute force your way horizontally across the base of the bowl (ie. where the steel blocks touch the ground).  And a sliding-trick solution would require handling the right side of the bowl with left-facing lemmings.  At a minimum, I believe this means you need to brute force your way horizontally across the base of the bowl to the right far enough, send some lemmings up the bottom of the bowl via sliding trick, and then use a blocker or similar to turn a left-facing lemming right after assigning it exploder, so it explodes appropriately at the right side of the bowl, allowing further left-facing moves glitching through the steel to get out of  the bowl (assuming you have enough skills left at that point to do so anyway!)

Mayhem 18: a right solution simply hasn't been attempted yet.  Due to the steel, glitches are almost certainly required, and due to limited availability of non-exploder terrain-removal skills, non-100% is also quite likely.  A left solution looks unlikely, due to difficulties with using only left-facing lemmings to set up in time a safe path for the upper-right entrance.

[Clam]

Here's Mayhem 18 right (glitch, non-100%), nothing too difficult really. For a left-only run, I found a way to get to the top-right entrance (attached), losing 6 lemmings (fewer might be possible but would require many more skills), but still a full solution looks unlikely.

Also, I've checked through all the other results in your post, no real surprises there.

[LemSteven]

I've got some preliminary results for Crazy.  A few of these may be improvable with wrong way solutions.

1: R (100%, blocker forcing lemming into wall glitch), L
2: L (100%)
3: R
4: R (100%)
5: R (100%)
6: R (100%)
8: R (Maybe 100%?)
9: R (100%)
11: R, L
12: R (100%)
13: R
15: R (100%, steel glitch)
16: R (100%)
17: R (100%)
18: R
19: R
20: R (100%)

[Clam]

I can add Crazy 1 right without glitches (but not 100%), so it's "glitch for 100%" rather than needing glitches just to pass.

Also, here's Crazy 2 right.

[Nortaneous]

Covox Lemmings:

Fun 1 - 100% LR*
Fun 2 - 100% R
Tricky 1 - 100% R* (this is incredibly hard to pull off, as far as I can tell)
Tricky 2 - no idea
Taxing 1 - might be able to 100% R but I hate timing builders like that
Taxing 2 - 100% R
Mayhem 1 - 100% R*
Mayhem 2 - R

* = I didn't try it, but it seems obvious enough

[LemSteven]

First half of Wild:

1: R (100%), L (100%)
2: R (100%)
3: R (100%)
4: L (100%)
5: R, L
6: L (100%)
8: R (100%)
9: Nuke glitch

Edit: Added Wild 5L.  This one just barely works, so it is quite hairy even if you know how to do it.  Details are explained in the hint below.

Everything is straightforward until the building at the end.  The first builder starts left from the wall at the far right.  When he runs out of bricks, he blocks as far left as possible without falling off the bridge.  Another lemming builds as close to the blocker as possible, turns, and hits the wall farther up.  The third builder goes left and then blocks at the far left edge of his bridge, and the fourth builder is used right next to the blocker.

That sounds pretty easy, but the pesky overhang on the left edge of the exit platform limits the number of bricks the fourth builder can lay down.  In addition, it requires the third builder to start low enough so that he doesn't hit his head.  As a result, every single bridge must be placed in a pixel-precise location, or you won't gain enough altitude to reach the exit.  In particular, the second and fourth bridges must start at the very top of the first and third bridges, respectively.  This in turn requires the first and third bridges to be placed such that the lemmings can step on the top brick before hitting the blocker's force field.

[ccexplore]

Here's Wild 9 L and R 100% no-glitch.

[Clam]

More Crazy: here's 8R, 9L, 13R and 16L, all 100% without glitches.

[Clam]

And more Crazy: 18R and 19R improved to 100%, replays attached.

Covox Lemmings:
Fun 1 - 100% LR*
Fun 2 - 100% R
Tricky 1 - 100% R* (this is incredibly hard to pull off, as far as I can tell)
Tricky 2 - no idea
Taxing 1 - might be able to 100% R but I hate timing builders like that
Taxing 2 - 100% R
Mayhem 1 - 100% R*
Mayhem 2 - R

* = I didn't try it, but it seems obvious enough

We haven't included these levels in challenge threads so far, but now I think about it, it might be a good idea to add this set to the older, "finished" challenges. I found a couple more solutions: Fun 2 left 100% and Mayhem 2 right 100%. Replays attached for these, plus Taxing 1.


I also took the liberty of playing through the bonus levels from the Lemmings Strategy Guide (these could also be added to existing challenges - you can find them here). My results (for convenience, I numbered these 1-16 instead of labelling them Fun through Mayhem):

L: 1, 5*, 8, 10, 13*. Non-100%: 1.
R: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7*, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12*, 13*, 14, 16. Non-100%: 6.

* replays attached for these levels.

[ccexplore]

Crazy 19 Left (non-100% and glitch)

[Clam]

Second half of Wild:

11: R (non100%, glitch - you can mine and bash through the steel)
12: R (non100%)
14: R (100%)
15: R (non100%)
17: R (100%)
18: R (non100%)
19: R (100%, glitch - bash through the ceiling)
20: R (non100%)

I also tried 13R, 17L and 19R noglitch, but couldn't quite get any of them to work out

[ccexplore]

I also tried <snip> and 19R noglitch, but couldn't quite get any of them to work out

I hope you mean 19R noglitch-100%, because 19R noglitch non-100% is pretty boringly possible.

[Clam]

Oops, yes, of course I meant 100% . I actually did these back when the thread was still active, and I forgot to note down that minor detail...

I'm working on Wicked now, expect some results soon.

[Clam]

Wicked

1: R (non100%)
3: R (100%, glitch - dig at the edge of the steel)
4: R (non100%, replay attached)
6: both non-100%
7: R (non100%)
8: both non-100% (replay attached for L)
9: R (non100%, replay attached, not difficult but it relies on an important detail that I hadn't noticed before)
11: R (100%)
12: R (non100%)
13: R (100%, replay attached)
14: R (100%)
16: R (non100%)
17: L (glitch for 100% - direct drop), R (non100%)
18: R (100%)
19: R (non100%)

[ccexplore]

Wow, nice job!

Here's Wicked 1 Left, non-100% of course (in fact it saves just the minimum of 80%).  A little ambiguous whether it counts as "glitch" or not.  Technically some pixels were taken out that are covered in steel areas, but for the most part the solution doesn't really explicitly depends on those pixels being taken out I think.

[LemSteven]

I can confirm Wild 13R for 95%.  The solution is a matter of getting the timing right so the lemmings are spaced out properly in the end.

1: Pause at the beginning and set the release rate to 80.
2: After the third lemming comes out, drop the release rate to 60.
3: After one more lemming comes out, pause and crank up the release rate to 99.
4: Make the first two lemmings climbers, and make the third lemming block a brick or so back of the wall.
5: When the climbers get over the wall, make one block a few pixels back of the thin wall.  Make the other mine so that the blocker turns him.  He will create the tunnel for the crowd.  Blow up the blocker on top of the tunnel.
6: When the miner finishes, he hits the lower blocker and walks back up.  Bash through the thin wall and build over the gap.
7: Blow up the remaining blocker such that he'll go off right after Lemming #80 (the last one out of the hatch) turns off of him.  The crowd should end up a short distance behind the climber/leader.
8: Have the climber bash through the wall and bomb in front of the trap.
9: The new leader (#4 from the hatch) should be a few steps ahead of the next in line.  Make him bomb so that he clears the path to the exit.  The last of the lemmings should reach the exit with about 15 seconds to spare.

[Clam]

Great work!

Here's a Lemmix replay of Lemsteven's solution.

[Nortaneous]

I found a couple more solutions: Fun 2 left 100% and Mayhem 2 right 100%. Replays attached for these, plus Taxing 1.

Which style/mechanics did you use to record those? I'm trying to play them under ONML (don't have Lemmini style set up in Lemmix yet...), and they won't work for me. All the other styles I have won't render the levels properly.

[Clam]

Good question! I recorded those replays in Original Lemmings mode. Not sure why it doesn't work for you outside of OMNL mode - maybe you need to close and restart Lemmix?

---

Here are my results for Havoc:

1: R (100%)
3: L (100%)
4: L (100% - the 3-skill solution uses left-facing lemmings only)
6: R (100%)
7: both non-100% (R might be improvable to 100%)
10: R (non100%)
11: R (100%, glitch - ceiling route)
13: R (100%)
15: R (non100%)
18: L (100%, glitch - dug out a bit of steel, I'm struggling to find a better way to handle the start)

Replays attached for 3, 6, 7 (both ways), 11, 13, 15 and 18, in a .zip since the forum only allows 4 attachments per post.

[Nortaneous]

Good question! I recorded those replays in Original Lemmings mode. Not sure why it doesn't work for you outside of OMNL mode - maybe you need to close and restart Lemmix?

Here's the error message that I get:

Error during play:

invalid replay header different mechanics

When I set it to Original Lemmings, the levels don't render properly -- they use the original tilesets instead of the ONML tilesets.

[Clam]

Oh, did you put the covox levelpack in your CustLemm folder? I have them in a separate folder, containing just the files that were in savelem.zip (plus my replays of course). I'm able to open them in Original, ONML and Custlemm modes, and maybe even others too.

[Clam]

Before we move on to Xmas/Holiday Lemmings, I found another solution for the strategy guide bonus levels: Fun 2 R (non-100%).

[Nortaneous]

Oh, did you put the covox levelpack in your CustLemm folder? I have them in a separate folder, containing just the files that were in savelem.zip (plus my replays of course). I'm able to open them in Original, ONML and Custlemm modes, and maybe even others too.

I have them in a separate folder. I can open them in ONML, but they don't display properly in Original or Custlemm. It might just be that I copied savelemm\  (not savelem\... weird) from one of my old PCs, so I'll try downloading it.

edit: that doesn't work either -- tried putting replays in the savelem\ folder and that didn't work. The level file is LEVEL000.DAT, right?

[Clam]

Hang on a sec...

When I set it to Original Lemmings, the levels don't render properly -- they use the original tilesets instead of the ONML tilesets.

If they use the original tilesets instead of ONML, that could mean you have the wrong graphics files in your savelem folder. Try copying over the GroundXo and VgagrX files from ONML (numbered 0-3, not 5-8 as they are in CustLemm - overwrite the original graphics files, since they shouldn't be there anyway). If that doesn't work, then I pretty much give up, since I have no idea how Lemmix works

[ccexplore]

If someone can point me to where to get the relevant files for the levels in question, I may be able to help sort out this mess for Nortaneous.

[Clam]

It's available at Lemmings Universe, under "demos and freeware games".

[ccexplore]

Huh, I'm actually quite confused now how Clam managed to play the levels in Original Lemmings mode and be able to open the levelset in Original, ONML and CustLemm.

The way it is supposed to work is that in the LemmixStyles.ini file where you define the various styles, for each style you explicitly point it to a directory on where the files are located for that specific style, plus there are also subentries in the INI file where you explicitly map a graphics set to the corresponding GroundXo/VgagrX files (and potentially vgaspecX files).  Thus by default it wouldn't be using any of the graphics files from the savelem folder unless you defined a style to do so.

Anyway, based on this description, here's a quick hacky remedy:

1) Make a copy of Lemmix.exe, LemmixStyles.ini and Lemmix.ini, and put them in your "savelem" folder.
2) edit the copy of LemmixStyles.ini:  find the section (like the first one) that looks something like this:

Code: [Select]

[style_0]
StyleClass=TDosOrigStyle
CommonPath=c:\lemmings\
MainDataFile=main.dat
OddTableFile=ODDTABLE.DAT
StyleDescription=Dos Original Lemmings
StyleName=DosOrig
And change the CommonPath to point to the path where you have your savelem folder (eg. c:\savelem\)  Optionally change the StyleName and StyleDescription to whatever.  [edit: do NOT change StyleName, leave it as DosOrig or whatever it was!] Save changes.

3) Now open Lemmix with the copy of Lemmix.exe in your savelem folder, open the levelset, and switch to "Original Lemmings" mode [edit: or whatever you renamed it to; likely the editor will auto-select the right style and you won't even need to change that].  Clam's replay should work now.  Note that we've effectively change the "Original Lemmings" style for this particular copy of Lemmix to point to the Covox Lemmings files, so you won't be able to use this style for example for levels/levelsets that actually call for the true "Original Lemmings" style.  For those, go back to your usual everyday copy of Lemmix.exe with the unaltered style information for Original Lemmings.

[ccexplore]

There is still one more problem with my quick fix.  For the vgaspec level ("The COVOX level"), it is using the exit from wrong graphics set I think.  I know how to fix that but I don't know which graphics set the correct exit comes from.  Clam, do you know?

[Clam]

It's supposed to use the bubble tileset (the one with the gold pipes) for the exit. You can verify this by playing the levels in DOSBox. I don't know why it uses a different exit in Lemmix though

Huh, I'm actually quite confused now how Clam managed to play the levels in Original Lemmings mode and be able to open the levelset in Original, ONML and CustLemm.

I'm as confused about this as you are. The special graphics level only works for me in Original mode though - in other modes I get an error saying "TDosOhNoStyle.FindExtGraphicSet 1 not found." (replace DosOhNo with other style as appropriate). That's why I used Original mode for my replays. I can even play some levels in Holiday Lemmings style...

[ccexplore]

I don't know why it uses a different exit in Lemmix though

Yeah, Lemmix for some weird reason seems to use the style data to find the matching graphics set, instead of sticking with what the level data actually specifies.

Anyway, with that info, here's how to fix the problem.  First start by exiting Lemmix if it is already running.  Then edit the savelem copy of LemmixStyles.ini by looking for the following section:

Code: [Select]

[DosOrig_5]
GraphicSetClass=TBaseDosGraphicSet
BrickColor=4283486448
GraphicExtFile=VGASPEC0.DAT
GraphicFile=VGAGR0.DAT
GraphicSetArchive=
GraphicSetId=0
GraphicSetIdExt=1
GraphicSetName=Spec0
MetaInfoFile=GROUND0O.DAT
(It might or might not be [DosOrig_5], the important thing is the presence of VGASPEC0.DAT in the section's data.)

Then change it as highlighted:

[DosOrig_5]
GraphicSetClass=TBaseDosGraphicSet
BrickColor=4283486448
GraphicExtFile=VGASPEC0.DAT
GraphicFile=VGAGR3.DAT
GraphicSetArchive=
GraphicSetId=3
GraphicSetIdExt=1
GraphicSetName=Spec0
MetaInfoFile=GROUND3O.DAT

Re-launch Lemmix and you should now be able to get the right exit in the Covox vgaspec level.

[Minim]

Nobody's done Holiday Lemmings yet, so I'll start off with the beginning of Frost:

Right: Levels 1-5, 7-8, 10-11, 14-15.
Left: Levels 3-4, 8-9.

And for Hail:
Right: 2-4, 8-10, 12-13, 16.

Although technically I have done Hail 10, I realise this is a three entrancer, and I solved the level using the ABCA order, which I know is the wrong order.
Solved! Using the original ABCB order (via adding another entrance in the middle) I came up with a solution.

[Clam]

Seems no one wants to do the easy levels, so here's Flurry:

Left: 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 12. (All 100%)
Right: All except 10. 16 is non-100% and requires glitches, all others 100% and no glitches.

Replays attached for 9L and 16R.

[Clam]

Nobody's done Holiday Lemmings yet, so I'll start off with the beginning of Frost:

Right: Levels 1-5, 7-8, 10-11, 14-15.
Left: Levels 3-4, 8-9.

I can add 1L and 5L (replays attached), and also 13R (make the first lemming build to turn around, and then trigger the nuke glitch).

[ccexplore]

Speaking of nuke, Hail 6 is the nuke level where no skills need to be assigned at all to solve the level, so I guess we can say it's possible left and right, non-100%, no glitches.

[edit: oh, and Wicked 1 Left still hasn't been included in the table on first post of thread.]

[Clam]

Oh, right, Wicked 1.

Here's Wicked 1 Left, non-100% of course (in fact it saves just the minimum of 80%).  A little ambiguous whether it counts as "glitch" or not.  Technically some pixels were taken out that are covered in steel areas, but for the most part the solution doesn't really explicitly depends on those pixels being taken out I think.

So far, I've been counting any necessary removal of steel-covered terrain as a glitch. In this case, the gap between steel areas seems to be too narrow to use a bomber without taking out at least a little steel, so you can't avoid removing steel in solving the level by your method. However, I'm not sure whether this really counts as a "glitch", since the term generally refers to unexpected behaviour, and I'd imagine most players would expect a bomber to make a hole in the terrain when it explodes in that position.

So, in the end... I dunno.

[ccexplore]

I really don't care one way or the other, so don't let it keep you from updating your post.

Perhaps you can put an asterisk next to the level number and then have a footnote somewhere below, with a link to your post above, like this:

*glitch/noglitch arguable, see here for details.

[Clam]

Seems I abandoned this challenge when we were nearly done

And for Hail:
Right: 2-4, 8-10, 12-13, 16.

I just looked through my notes, and it turns out I actually did a proper run through Hail (and even saved some replays), and then didn't post my results. So here they are:

L: 2, 6, 11. Non-100%: 2, 6.
R: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. Non-100%: 2, 5, 6.

Replays attached for 5R, 11L, 14R.

[Clam]

Reviving this thread with results for Blitz:

L: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 12, 14. 100%: 1, 3, 6, 7, 8, 14. Non-100%: 12.
R: All. (Yes, every single level, without glitches!) Non-100%: 12, 15, 16.

A few notes:
9R is also a builder+digger 100% solution, which hasn't been posted on the fewest skill types thread yet. Two for the price of one
14R just takes a bunch of miner backstrokes and digging when the lemmings turn around.
15R is the standard climb-bomb-bash backroute, requires extreme precision on the bomber.
16R has already been achieved in my 1-bomber solution, another two-for-one

Attached replays for 1L+R, 8R, 9R, 10R, 13R.

[Minim]

Reviving this challenge thread (Which has happened for the third time ) because the Xmas demo levels were clearly forgotten about.

Here are some results. Most of them are not too difficult.

Xmas 91 (both 100%)
1: R
2: L

Xmas 92 (all methods 100%)
1: R
2: Both
3: R
4: R

[Proxima]

Oh, right, Wicked 1.

So far, I've been counting any necessary removal of steel-covered terrain as a glitch. In this case, the gap between steel areas seems to be too narrow to use a bomber without taking out at least a little steel, so you can't avoid removing steel in solving the level by your method. However, I'm not sure whether this really counts as a "glitch", since the term generally refers to unexpected behaviour, and I'd imagine most players would expect a bomber to make a hole in the terrain when it explodes in that position.

So, in the end... I dunno.

So I just noticed, this never did get resolved    I've added Wicked 1 left to the first post. I don't know whether my role as Challenges moderator allows me to adjudicate, but if so, then I would say that incidental removal of steel terrain is not a glitch -- it only counts as a glitch if you actually require the terrain removal for your solution to work.