Author Topic: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!  (Read 17444 times)

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Offline Clam

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The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« on: December 10, 2010, 04:10:54 am »
Since the forum seems to be picking up again, and this challenge was a hit the first time around, I'm gonna give it another spin.

Welcome to the Level Design Game, the Lemmings challenge where building the level is the challenge!


How it works:

One player posts a set of criteria that a level has to meet. The first person to create and post a level that meets the criteria (as verified by the challenge setter) is the winner, and can post their own challenge. The game version is DOS Lemmings (Lemmix / Custlemm) - you can upload .LVL or .DAT files, as well as Lemmix replays (.LRB) for solutions, as attachments to posts.

See how the game works in the original thread!


Rules:

Setting a challenge

  • The level criteria must be objective (i.e. not subject to opinion) and feasible within the limitations of Lemmix / Custlemm.
  • You must build the level yourself as a proof of concept. This level must also comply with the rules for completing a challenge (see below). Once the challenge is won, post your level to compare! (And to prove you actually did it yourself :P)
  • Please be on hand to validate attempts at your challenge! ;)

Completing a challenge

  • You can build the level in any of the 10 original tilesets, unless otherwise specified by the challenge criteria.
  • The level must:

          - meet all of the challenge criteria
          - be solvable (I may consider allowing challenges that require a level to be unsolvable)
          - have 80 or fewer lemmings (else Custlemm will crash :()
          - pass the level checker in Lemmix / LemEdit (≤400 terrain, ≤32 objects, ≤32 steel, objects/steel aligned to grid, nothing out of bounds)
  • Unless the solution to the level is obvious, be ready to provide a description, preferably in the form of a Lemmix replay.
  • If an existing level meets the criteria, you can post it as your level! Challenge creators beware! :evil:
  • Please wait for confirmation by the challenge setter before posting a new challenge. Be aware, though, that anyone can show your level fails the challenge. Only the challenge setter may verify levels.
  • If it's your turn, but you don't have a challenge ready, you may call "open floor" and allow anyone to set a new challenge. Also, to help things along, you may call a conditional "open floor" when you submit a level.



And here is the first challenge. Build a level with:

  • One entrance
  • At least four exits
  • One skill available (not just one type, but one usage of that skill)
  • In any solution to the level, each exit is used by exactly one lemming.


Hopefully it's not too difficult for a first challenge. I was able to make two different levels for this myself, so it should be doable :)

EDIT: Solved by Insane Steve:thumbsup:

Offline Simon

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 12:38:14 pm »
First :)

Open floor, in case there aren't backroutes left.

-- Simon

Offline Clam

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 08:25:00 pm »
You're thinking along the right lines, but you've overlooked one important detail ;). See attached replay.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2010, 11:55:37 pm »
Your definition of "picking up" is rather generous. :P Last time there are definitely more people around.

Anyhow, try this one.  No replay attached, because the possibilities are basically limited to just 3, all of which are verified to exactly save 4 lemmings each in its own exit.  One more thing:  must use DOS Lemmings mechanics, not CustLemm.  (There's probably a way to eliminate this mechanics dependency so it works in both, but I'm lazy.)

Still calling open floor for next one, but if no one response I might see if I can come up with something quick and relatively interesting over the weekend.

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2010, 12:42:53 am »
didn't look at ccexplore's version so this might be redundant. The level didn't take long to conceptualise, actually  :P Not a very aesthetic attempt but I see nothing else that can be done.

"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2010, 01:13:03 am »
Ha, yours still look better than mine I think. ;)  In your case it looks like CustLemm mechanics is required, but actually yours is fairly simple to make it work with both mechanics.  Anyway, with even less possible solutions than mine, it's easy to verify that your level indeed satisfies the criteria of the challenge.

(In case people are wondering about the CustLemm/DosLemm difference that are affecting the levels, it is that DosLemm entrances release lemmings one pixel to the left of where CustLemm would.)

Offline Clam

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2010, 01:39:19 am »
Your definition of "picking up" is rather generous. :P Last time there are definitely more people around.

I've noticed a few people coming back after a long time away. So compared to, say, two months ago when I tried to revive the challenges section, it certainly appears to me to be picking up. Whether it lasts as long as last time is another matter... :-\

As for your level, I'm going to be extremely harsh (but fair) and say no. If you make the first lemming dig, and nuke as soon as the 40th lemming enters, you save 2 of 40 (i.e. 5% with the nuke glitch). It's difficult to see exactly how many lemmings have entered, so I built a pit to catch the lemmings that fall, and nuked when the lemming count reached 30 (given that 1/4 die straight away to the trap). Also, it seems to me you could switch to CustLemm mechanics and shift the terrain one pixel to the right, and end up with essentially the same level.

I can't see anything wrong with Insane Steve's level. So I guess it isn't redundant after all ;)

My level is attached. This was actually the second one I made, the first (using a basher) wasn't very nice. The solution (obviously) is to bomb the first lemming as soon as it enters the level.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2010, 02:15:25 am »
That's fair, I forgot to account for nuke glitch, and apparently the walking isn't made long enough to prevent that sort of thing. :XD:

As for the DosLemm/CustLemm thing, originally when I made the level I was hoping to spread out the 4 levels of floors on the left a bit more apart starting from where they are connected to the pillar, and obviously if that were the case, I can't let too many lemmings leak out to the left prematurely.  That idea didn't quite pan out so I ended up with the current setup with the 4 floors 1 pixel apart, where as you observed, it wouldn't matter if you dig one pixel to the left of where you are intended to do so.

Offline GigaLem

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2010, 05:13:11 pm »
i Hope this dosen't blemish the rules im a litte confused.
Well here's mine a bit easy but it has four exits

Offline Gronkling

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 06:02:45 pm »
I decided to have a go but it seems I'm to late.
LEMMINGS EVOLUTION completed levels: 100!!!
sorry for being gone so long D:

Offline Clam

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 12:03:58 am »
That's OK, I'm happy to take late entries. You never know, even if I can't see any problems with a level, someone else could find something wrong and show the level fails. Then the later entries get a chance ;)

Giga: The level has to meet all the criteria, not just one or two. I'm afraid this game is fairly complicated by nature; I can't help that. :-\ Maybe I could have made the first challenge a simple one at least...

Gronkling: Your level suffers the same problem as Simon's: If you change the release rate, you can end up with a solution that sends multiple lemmings to the same exit. This leads to a strong hint for "any solution" type challenges: if you set the release rate to 99, it can't be changed during the level, which removes a huge number of backroute possibilities.


Anyway, Insane Steve, do you have a challenge or is it open floor?

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 12:50:37 am »
I'm not sure how easy or possible this might be, but here goes:

Design a level that has at least 5 skills, in at least 3 tasks. All skills must be used in any solution to the level.

The level is to have one entrance, one exit. The save rate must be 8/10, and no more than 80% should be possible.

The level, if the number of lemmings is changed to 50, and 96% is required, must has a fundamentally different solution that uses all tasks and can't save more than 96%. That is, the solution to the 8/10 level must be different from any solution to the 48/50 level, and vice versa.

EDIT: also the release rates and time must be the same for both versions

EDIT2: Task passed by Clam Spammer
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

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Offline ccexplore

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 03:00:19 am »
Clarification on "fundamentally different solution".  Does it have to differ from the very first move, or can there be minor parts at the beginning that are basically the same in both, and then diverges from there?

It's probably not too hard to go from latter to former, but obviously the latter probably takes less effort to achieve.

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 03:28:21 am »
Hmmmm... it's a bit hard to disambiguate that part, yea.

Basically, the two paths have to take different routes to the exit, and/or use a completely different main idea; it's hard to explain any clearer than that. They should not share any main parts of the solutions, though.
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

Offline Clam

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Re: The Level Design Game: 2nd Edition!
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 04:12:53 am »
Perhaps it would be good enough to say the level fails if you can produce a Lemmix replay that works for both versions?