I suggest we apply to this pack whatever changes we end up applying to the RL version as proposed here.

Mobius has made it clear he's happy for these packs to be re-arranged, and so we have an opportunity to (a) sync both NL and RL ports, and (b) create a trilogy, the third part of which (the proposed Lemmings Assemble) can be a new Forum collaboration pack. The first two parts would be the current Revenge of the Lemmings but sorted into 2 smaller packs with fewer levels, the second of which could be titled Return of the Lemmings (or something better if anyone has any suggestions?)

Let's continue any discussion regarding this in the linked topic. As it stands, Mobius' 2022 version of ROTL will remain as-is. Pending development of the proposed RL port, the 2022 version may receive a similar (or identical) update at a later stage.

Version 2.9.4 hotfix update

If you're one of the 2 people that downloaded 2.9.4, my apologies. Please do not use it as it won't store your progress correctly.

If you DID happen to use it, all is not lost. To quickly restore your progress, open the 'yourusername.ini' file found in settings/players/ in any text editor and change all instances of "completed=false" to "completed=true".

You can do this in Windows Notepad by pressing Ctrl+H, then adding the following fields:



Go ahead and click "Replace all", then save the file. This will restore any progress made in 2.9.4.

I'd be down to contribute towards this, though likely not much. I'm getting a new job in about a week and I'm going to be extremely busy from then onward (most likely). But I already have a folder of levels, some finished, some not that could possibly work here.

I do have a week off presently that I will have some time to re-familiarize myself with ROTL and maybe offer some feedback and thoughts on ROTL in general. I do have some idea of the age of most of the levels.

my #1 recommendation would be: set a goal for WAY fewer levels than ROTL had/has. Trust me that was too much work Like around 100 or fewer levels would probably be best. I'd also recommend starting something totally new that has little or nothing to do with ROTL [other than being like a sequel as it seems you already may have in mind].
ROTL really started to continue/finish what was started prior to 2009; and consolidate really old levels that stood by themselves when everyone like Pieuw was making big packs and that was becoming popular. My addition of newer levels seems a bad idea in hindsight.

Honestly I wasn't even aware that Eric or anyone else made these other recent conversions. I don't have any opinions on those; that's up to them.

Which brings up another point: when dealing with ROTL you're dealing with levels by people who aren't here to answer "is this a backroute or not" etc. So that just adds another layer of difficulty. I know for a fact for instance; that the celebrated Duality that's in the current states of all versions of ROTL isn't "accurate" (though its still a very good level imo) because I managed to get a replay from him from geoo. (but only for his 6th pack!) Yawg hasn't been active here in years. So again; it would be far better and easier today to make a pack based on people that are here and can address questions and issues with there levels in real time.

Also it would be nice to utilize the new skills and features of modern games [which the old levels obviously don't have].


To add to what Proxima said: part of why I got frustrated with the project was that besides the end result being too large lots of people came in saying they wanted to contribute but in the end I did most of the work; because nobody else was really willing/able to do much (except a few people, namely Akseli who brought most of the levels to my attention in the first place), and there were generally only a few people coming forward with opinions that disagreed, so they ended up at an impasse. And I was kind of just left to make the decision. ROTL has plenty of flaws, but I'm overall happy with the result. But it wouldn't bother me at all if it was greatly altered. I had plans to do what (wafflem and I) we did for ISteve's and Clam's pack with other older levels; like Yawg's and Ben Bryant's, but I never got time to do all that. If someone ever did that it would make those levels in the big pack redundant (which is why in the latest version I removed ISteve and Clam's levels). WeirdyBeardy also made his own pack consolidating all of his levels a year or so ago didn't he? But that's just one suggestion. Anyways, like I already said; since there;s a lot of new people and ROTL has old levels that are now well known, I'd recommend starting something totally new and separate from that.

edit: I forgot that actually I already started to do this with Ben Bryant's levels but its not finished.

Quote from: Guigui on March 27, 2026, 12:01:51 AMThough it has that weird UK electrical plug and you cannot use it in Kuwait :/

This one? If so, this is exactly the type of plug we use here

Anyway, you get better at badminton, but your friends coincidentally lost interest in playing it completely.

I wish I could easily learn, understand and speak other languages. I'm getting tired of only knowing English and the bare minimum amount of Arabic to not starve if I suddenly got lost.

Quick thought: I see the sense in these packs being a Forum-wide thing, and being the same in NeoLemmix.

Development for the NeoLemmix version is already very far along, would anybody want to re-arrange the NL versions of the ROTL packs as suggested in this post (i.e. packs with 120 levels across 4 groups of 30)?

Maybe it's too early to be asking this. The thought has occurred to me though, particularly following Proxima's question regarding this.

Quote from: ericderkovits on March 28, 2026, 01:32:32 AMAs per Willem's request on discord.

i.e. Eric sent this message to me as a PM but I thought it made sense to make it part of the general discussion.

Quote from: ericderkovits on March 28, 2026, 01:32:32 AMRevenge of the lemmings rearranged was ordered like mobius's NL 3.0 version of the pack except for the extra2 and extra3 ranks ... the extra1 extra2 and extra3 rank levels can perhaps be put into the lemmings assemble one.

Exactly, this is the general idea. Any levels which aren't featured in the latest NL version could potentially form part of the new collab pack, particularly if they're levels by currently-active members.

Quote from: ericderkovits on March 28, 2026, 01:32:32 AMalso mobius had an outtakes pack with plenty of other unused levels with some good ones. Almost all of them use the OG styles ... perthaps you (Willem*) can choose the ones that are good.

Again, this is exactly the kind of thing we want: additional levels by currently-active members. @mobius, do you have these levels handy to post here to this topic (don't worry about format, we can convert if necessary)?

*We can decide as a group which levels should make the final cut, I think Eric is just making it clear here that his original message was addressed to me.

Quote from: ericderkovits on March 28, 2026, 01:32:32 AMWillem can do what he wants with The Lemmings Rearranged pack to divide it into the 3 new packs: Revenge of the lemmings, Return of the lemmings and Lemmings Assemble.

Glad to have your approval with this, particularly since you have been looking after the SuperLemmini version. I should make it clear that I respect the history of ROTL as a community pack and won't do anything without approval from other Forum members who feel invested in the project's development up to this point.

If you do feel invested and (like Proxima) want to have a say in this, NOW is the time! There's no need to rush anything, of course, but there's also no need to wait months or years to make progress with it.

---

Next steps.

Perhaps the first thing to do is to draft the first two packs in the trilogy.

Pack I - Revenge of the Lemmings <--- this one
Pack II - Return of the Lemmings <--- and this one
Pack III - Lemmings Assemble

These should entirely comprise levels from the current SuperLemmini/NL versions of ROTL but split into 2 packs of 120 levels each. Others will likely have a better idea of general chronology of the levels than I do, and a better grasp of the pack's history, so input is needed here for sure. Ideally, the first pack would be the oldest levels, and the second pack the newest levels. Anything left over can be considered for inclusion in pack III.

We need an initial something to work from, so if nobody has posted anything by the end of next week (Friday 3rd April) I'll put together a frst draft (which will definitely need to be re-worked by someone with more knowledge of ROTL than me!)

In the meantime, I'll keep playing through the existing levels and try to solve as many as I possibly can!

As per Willem's request on discord.

Revenge of the lemmings rearranged was ordered like mobius's NL 3.0 version of the pack except for the extra2 and extra3 ranks. also I don't mind if you (Willlem) split the main ranks in half to make Revenge of the lemmings and Return of the Lemmings. the extra1 extra2 and extra3 rank levels can perhaps be put into the lemmings assemble one. also mobius had an outtakes pack with plenty of other unused levels with some good ones. Almost all of them use the OG styles. Those in the outtakes pack of course need to be converted to Retrolemmini. perthaps you (Willem) can choose the ones that are good.

 Willem can do what he wants with The Lemmings Rearranged pack to divide it into the 3 new packs: Revenge of the lemmings, Return of the lemmings and Lemmings Assemble.

Cool, thanks Cindy. Welcome to the Forums!

Quote from: Mobiethian on March 26, 2026, 09:50:15 PMI want to learn it is what I had in mind.

Please do go ahead, it'll be great to have your involvement!

Quote from: Proxima on March 26, 2026, 11:10:17 PMSo the first question is: are you offering to take over as pack maintainer for RotL in addition to putting together and maintaining the new pack? (There is, of course, no reason why these have to be the same person.)

I suppose so, but if others want to get involved and help out that would be much appreciated. I already have more than enough going on lemmings-wise as it is. I'm very happy for someone else to take on the role of maintainer, and will likely ask for someone to volunteer if nobody does; my assumption of that role for now is just to get the project up and moving.

Quote from: Proxima on March 26, 2026, 11:10:17 PMdo you intend to come up with the selection and ordering yourself or through community discussion?

Community discussion probably, with time limits so that the initial sorting part of the project doesn't go on forever and cause people to lose interest. So, if a decision hasn't been made by an agreed date or if consensus can't be reached, it's pack maintainer's call.

I'd probably want to do it as quickly and simply as possible, and make the first two instalments (ROTL I and ROTL II) essentially set-and-forget packs that we agree are complete and don't mess with further. I'd be relying on others' input with this for sure!

Quote from: Proxima on March 26, 2026, 11:10:17 PMShould new versions be made for RetroLemmini, SuperLemmini and NL so that it's playable in the new selection/ordering on all engines, or is that not important?

No, I don't think that's necessary; this can be seen as more or less its own project. It certainly won't be back-ported to SuperLemmini (not by me, anyway). Meanwhile, if NL users want the pack to be ported to NL, I personally see no reason not to, but it's not part of the initial plan and is a bridge to be crossed later (if at all).

Quote from: Proxima on March 26, 2026, 11:10:17 PMWhat will you do when level solutions are impacted by game mechanics differences between the engines?

Either fix or replace the level, I imagine. As yet, I don't think there have been any level-breaking changes between original Lemmini and RetroLemmini. Replay-breaking changes, sure, but the levels themselves all hold up (AFAIK).

Quote from: Proxima on March 26, 2026, 11:10:17 PMIt sounds like you want to move it back to (now Retro)Lemmini primarily; is that the case? If so, can you explain why you believe that should be done?

Mainly because RetroLemmini is an experience closer to playing the original game than any of the other engines, and it seems like a more appropriate platform for OG-style levels. But also, because it would simply be good to have more custom content for RetroLemmini. I've worked hard on updating the engine, making it more user-friendly, and adapting the NL Editor for use with it, so a collab pack with community involvement would be the icing on the cake at this point.

Quote from: Proxima on March 26, 2026, 11:10:17 PMI am still happy to help with producing the next version in any way I can.

Awesome! The more voices and involvement we have, the better

I've completed 18 of the Wild Wreck Way levels, but am still struggling with Fossil Canyon. Can you take a look at the attached screenshot and tell me if I'm on completely the wrong lines?
Thanks for the further pointers re tricks. I have not figured out the Quick Zig Zone trick yet. Re the 'Perform miner cloner boost' when I open the .nxlv file I get 'Level 07 (Clones 2) Bomb Miner Boost.' Is this the one you intended, and is it a training level from one of your packs?

I'll post my Wild Wreck Way solutions separately.

Fossil Canyon