Quote from: LemSteven on August 09, 2026, 12:12:03 AMYou're on the right track, but as others have said, it may not be possible outside of DOS.  The key is that you need the second lemming far enough to the right that he can dig all the way down to the steel without sending the crowd into the drink.  That way you can use the third and fourth diggers to create a "stairway" to the exit.

I usually achieve this by forcing the a lemming into the wall using a blocker, so that the first digger starts a couple of pixels farther right, but that relies on the glitchy DOS physics.  Apparently a solution exists only using 3 of the 4 blockers, but I've never pulled that off, so I'm not sure if it's any less glitchy.

Okay thanks. So its not possible in NeoLemmix then, if you use a blocker to wedge a lemming into the wall it will still be one pixel too far left. I just fired up the DOS version, the first digger digs one pixel to the right compared to NeoLemmix

In the interests of keeping the original levels readily available for all new users, CE will ship with this version of the compilation from now on.

I'll send some updates to Proxima for review in due course, ensuring that the following have been done:

1) Restore Call in the Bomb Squad and Save Me decorative terrain
2) Special windows/exits for A Beast of a Level and co.
3) Add numbering to the .nxlv files
4) Include the edited version of PoP YoR ToP!!! from my previous post (above)

Pending approval from Proxima, I'll ship this version with the next CE update.

Quote from: namida on August 08, 2026, 11:58:41 PMKeep new (non-12.14) characters in a seperate file

This is probably the cleanest way to do it for panel characters/icons.

I've now reverted 'panel_font.png' and 'panel_icons.png' to their NL 12.14 counterparts. Custom .pngs will load exactly as before.

Meanwhile, the new characters are included in a new 'ce-panel_chars.png' sheet, which will ship with CE.

Fixed in NLCEPlayer commit 9a6c403.

You're on the right track, but as others have said, it may not be possible outside of DOS.  The key is that you need the second lemming far enough to the right that he can dig all the way down to the steel without sending the crowd into the drink.  That way you can use the third and fourth diggers to create a "stairway" to the exit.

I usually achieve this by forcing the a lemming into the wall using a blocker, so that the first digger starts a couple of pixels farther right, but that relies on the glitchy DOS physics.  Apparently a solution exists only using 3 of the 4 blockers, but I've never pulled that off, so I'm not sure if it's any less glitchy.

Quote from: WillLem on August 08, 2026, 06:32:40 PMI can't think of a sensible way to deal with this engine-side tbh. CE could perhaps see if the target .png is the same width as the one it expects, and - if it isn't - load the default instead. There might be a better way.

Keep new (non-12.14) characters in a seperate file - or at least, strictly at the end of the file. Apply the fallback-to-default seperately for the original and new characters (if using "at the end": compare number of characters, load missing ones from default file).

QuoteCE could perhaps see if the target .png is the same width as the one it expects, and - if it isn't - load the default instead. There might be a better way.

This could be at least a good temporary fix if not already a statisfying one.

Otherwise this will most likely become a recurring issue new users (or even old ones) run into.

Quote from: WillLem on August 08, 2026, 06:41:22 PM@Proxima - I'll probably start including your compilation with CE, after making the updates you've suggested in your OP.

Every now and then, someone asks about the OG levels. Many people probably don't ask, but still want them. Let's just provide them once and for all.

I can confirm that getting the original games to run on modern machine quickly leads to this forum and NL. At first newcomers most certainly want to replay those games before even thinking to try user made content.
That was my case some months ago and I was a bit disappointed that the original games were not all readily available.

After a cup of tea and a think, here's a suggested scheme:

GREEN = State is OK / Normal

Use this for: hatch count, there are regular lemmings in the level, save requirement is met, time limit is infinite


TEAL or CYAN = Pay attention!

Use this for: cut future replay actions warning (the recently-added 'CUT N TASKS'), only Neutrals remain, save requirement is not met but there are enough lemmings remaining to be able to meet it, time limit is finite

 
RED = State is critical

Use this for: there are not enough lemmings remaining to meet the save requirement, time limit is about to run out (15 seconds is good for this)


BLUE = Information only

Use this for: lemming actions when hovering over a lem, panel button hints, overtime


No other colours.

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The only issue I can see with the above is that { lemming actions when hovering over a lem } is currently Green, and this is what people are used to. We could also do with differentiating it from { panel button hints }, as both could be - for example - 'BASHER' (the former for a lemming performing the Basher action, and the latter for the Basher skill button).

We could either:

a) Use Purple (or some other colour) for one or the other

b) Continue to use Green for { lemming actions when hovering over a lem } and accept the slight inconsistency in the proposed scheme

c) Some other suggestion (please post if you have one!)

Agreed, this should be shown.

Try this:

If you playtest a level in CE 1.1.2 from the Editor (using F12), it will show a clickable text 'Show Skills Used', which opens a dialog showing the exact skills used in the most recent playthrough. This is primarily a level creation tool, but could be carried over to gameplay as well.

Would you prefer the clickable text for normal gameplay, or is just the 'total skills used' count sufficient? Thinking about it, we could show the 'total skills used' count and make it clickable anyway.

Quote from: Simon on August 04, 2026, 08:18:26 PMClock turns red at arbitrary time (1 minute? 15 seconds?) and turns purple when it's not sufficient for winning. Instead, ditch the arbitrary threshold. On different maps, different thresholds will feel like too short anyway. Consistently use red for insufficiency.

Purple is essentially 'overtime' as opposed to 'insufficient time to win'. It's only there because gameplay doesn't end when time is up, and it might be useful for the player to know by how much their attempted solution exceeds the time limit. Red could be confusing here, especially since the timer counts upwards at this point.

Instead, red is used to mean 'time is nearly up'. We could adjust when this happens depending on the total time limit, but it seems better to keep it consistent for all levels.

Quote from: Simon on August 04, 2026, 08:18:26 PMSave requirement is printed in blue ... This removes the meaning of other colors

Save count is printed in blue until it is met, then it changes to green. Yellow probably makes a bit more sense but then visually blends with the time limit counter when it is yellow. Could we try teal instead?

Quote from: Simon on August 04, 2026, 08:18:26 PMLemming count is yellow when there are neutral lemmings. Why is this important? Why do we have to pay attention? I would understand it becoming yellow when there are only neutral lemmings left.

Agreed, this has never fully made sense to me either. Let's make it change only when neutrals are left.

Quote from: Simon on August 04, 2026, 08:18:26 PMLemming count also becomes cyan in some cases? When and why?

This is when there are only neutrals left (I think...?).

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Bottom line: agreed, we can look again at the panel's colour scheme.