everyone, say hello to mr lemmdo!

This is about the original styles only (orig_* and ohno_*) and does not concern custom styles.

Since NL's Style Manager is effectively the authority on style contents, it's not a good idea for CE to provide tiles which don't exist in the NL versions of those styles.

So, the background tiles that were introduced in CE Version 1.1 RC-1 have now been removed and will no longer ship with CE's copies of the OG styles. If you have copies of these styles with the tiles included, please do not use the tiles in any of your levels as they will no longer be supported by either NL or CE. It's also a good idea to delete them from your copy to prevent any possible confusion, or replace the styles with those from the next CE update (due to be released later today).

If you do wish to use the tiles, they are available in 'special' and 'proxima_tile', from where they will work in both NL 12.14 and CE. The next Editor update (due to be released later today) will make these tiles automatically available from the relevant 'orig' and 'ohno' styles so that it's not necessary to manually search for them. Simply click the Backgrounds button and the tiles will still be there as previously, albeit referenced from the correct style (either 'special' or 'proxima_tile').

Note also that the backgrounds which exist in the NL styles (crystal_level.png, nessy.png, etc) will still be available as before. This topic is only about the colored tiles which were introduced in CE Version 1.1 RC-1.

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Meanwhile and on a similar note, the alternative trap animations will continue to be shipped with CE's copies, but can currently be overridden from Style Manager. If you agree that these updates should be accepted into the OG styles, please show your support by replying to the topic otherwise nothing will happen.

@Moderators - Please pin this topic until it's resolved.

@namida - It looks to me like those who have replied are happy for the agreed animation updates to go ahead. If you approve, let me know and I'll send over the full set again following your approval (rather than just add another .zip of files to this topic unnecessarily). Meanwhile, the proposed backgrounds are now handled by the Editor, so no longer need to be added to the OG styles manually and can therefore be ignored.

@Everyone - If you agree that these updates should be accepted into the OG styles, please show your support by replying to this topic otherwise nothing will happen.

I might actually join! 

This is one of ~3 days in October where I might actually be available.

Hope it works out, looking forward to bashing some blockers! (which is wildly ineffective)

Quote from: Simon on September 15, 2026, 05:42:42 AMLemmings 1 runs at 17 physics updates per second, I believe NL is the same. You get more work done in 1 NL second than in 1 Lix second. Lemmings 1 takes about 3.1 seconds to first spawn. That allows you ~3,007 physics updates in NL after first spawn.

Correct, NL is pretty much based off of Dos, so yes, 17 frames a second.

QuoteLix runs at 15 physics updates per second, first spawn is at 60 ticks, and C++ Lix (from year 2016) counts time limits starting from 30 ticks. If we insist on 3 minutes at normal Lix speed, C++ Lix would have allowed 2,670 ticks after first spawn, which is 2,730 ticks from the artificial zero 4 seconds before spawn.

Thanks for the info

QuoteNepster's reference solution takes 2,739 to win and even has a manual nuke at 2,808. That wouldn't have passed under the strict 2,730 tick 3-minute bar. You were faster at 2,662, you proved it's possible to put 2,730 into the title and still have it doable, but Nepster's reference replay would fail to solve. What to do?

Let's put 3,000 into the title? Round number, and it's only 3.5 seconds tighter than Lemmings 1's 3 minutes. The reference replay accomplishes it comfortably with 17 seconds to spare. And everybody else's solution passes, too.

I'll change the 3,180 in the commit to 3,000.

Yea, I would agree there with 3,000 as a good solution here for the Time Out level. We can always change it back or to something else later on if Nepster ever returns in the future and clarifies what the time limit should be used for the level. It's also not a big deal if it's necessary to slightly tweak Nepster's replay to have a replay proof for the level again, but yea, there isn't really any reason why we need to break anyone's replay solution here because it doesn't finish on time for the level, especially if they all finish within the same tick range.

Ah, you have indeed mentioned tweaker specifically and not the rewind to previous feature, and I did have a feeling you meant the one where a menu opens to tweak assignments, which is exactly like the replay edit mode of NL

Quote from: Simon on September 15, 2026, 04:29:25 AMConsider: You got your feature that I don't like but you claim is better. Now it's your turn to give feedback to what you don't like but I claim is better. You're already predisposed to tell me what sucks about the tweaker. This is the best way for me to get feedback.

I think there's a misunderstanding here. Nowhere have I said that the Lix tweaker isn't good or that I dislike it (same goes with NL's replay edit mode). Rather, I acknowledge that the tweaker is available in Lix, I simply choose not to use it when I play Lix and that I have a preference for using the hotkeys for the other various functions here because it feels more natural to me and how I'm very used to playing Lix/NL this way. The simplest answer being is that I'm one of those players who prefers to not bring up a menu during gameplay because it feels like it slows me down more than it should. Thus, it's preference more than anything and my gameplay style. Also, I generally have to do things in a very specific way, as doing otherwise doesn't usually go down well for me. Hence why I kind of say it can appear I exhibit OCD-like traits

As a matter of fact, I have probably only used NL's replay edit mode a few times ever, so I almost never use that either, simply because I don't feel the need to as well and again, I prefer not to bring up a menu during gameplay. Also, when I play NL, I generally prefer clicking the skills with the mouse rather than using the hotkeys to do so. Guess who's going to be in a lot of trouble for the Lix multiplayer session next month Nah, I will have my skills hotkeys ready before then, as was advised to me

As a side note, I believe there is a topic on the General Discussion board on what browser people prefer using. I answered that I use Firefox and that I generally prefer clicking with the mouse to browse rather than using keyboard shortcuts. Again, my preference even though yes, I understand what you meant that the latter should be a much better and far faster way to browse the web It's also that I'm far too used with clicking instead of keyboard shortcuts

So yes, I'm weird like this, as sometimes I prefer clicking, other times I prefer keyboard shortcut      

Anyway, I still plan to uphold my end of the deal and get video footage of the Lix tweaker, especially after what you've done for me to help with my last few NepsterLix video streams      

Quoteand my suggestion with "Time Out" would be 3180 since the level would give 210s time limit.

Quote from: kaywhyn on September 15, 2026, 02:06:00 AMicon turns green at 2662 ticks and hence the last Lix required to be saved fully exits by around 2673 ticks
NepsterLems version of the level has a 3 minute time limit.

Lemmings 1 runs at 17 physics updates per second, I believe NL is the same. You get more work done in 1 NL second than in 1 Lix second. Lemmings 1 takes about 3.1 seconds to first spawn. That allows you ~3,007 physics updates in NL after first spawn.

Lix runs at 15 physics updates per second, first spawn is at 60 ticks, and C++ Lix (from year 2016) counts time limits starting from 30 ticks. If we insist on 3 minutes at normal Lix speed, C++ Lix would have allowed 2,670 ticks after first spawn, which is 2,730 ticks from the artificial zero 4 seconds before spawn.

Nepster's reference solution takes 2,739 to win and even has a manual nuke at 2,808. That wouldn't have passed under the strict 2,730 tick 3-minute bar. You were faster at 2,662, you proved it's possible to put 2,730 into the title and still have it doable, but Nepster's reference replay would fail to solve. What to do?

Let's put 3,000 into the title? Round number, and it's only 3.5 seconds tighter than Lemmings 1's 3 minutes. The reference replay accomplishes it comfortably with 17 seconds to spare. And everybody else's solution passes, too.

Archeology: C++ Lix never shipped NepsterLix and people had to get NepsterLix from this thread instead. In March 2016, I put NepsterLix into D Lix. Already there, we had the mismatch of #SECONDS 210 (= 3:30) in Time Out and 3min in Time Out's title.

I conjecture: Nepster wanted 3 minutes because NepsterLems came first and had 3 minutes. Then he found 3 minutes too tight at 15 ticks/second, and bumped it to the next bigger round-looking value of 3:30. Then he (I think it was him?) put time limits into the titles, and somehow we wrote 3 minutes into the title in Lix even though that's again too tight.

I'll change the 3,180 in the commit to 3,000.

Quote from: kaywhyn on September 15, 2026, 02:06:00 AMThanks for the update to the rewind to previous feature for the 0.10.35 Lix release. Still need to get the approximately 30 minute video footage to you of how I use it

--> other topic: Lix for kaywhyn

-- Simon

Reading over this topic again, the best solution to Proxima's concern is to allow the Editor to access special's 'amiga_blue' and 'dos_black' background tiles from anywhere - this will be added in the next Editor update.

Meanwhile, I've forgotten why I was bothered about background brightness when I first made this topic and it hasn't really been an issue since. It's possible to disable backgrounds if they're an issue; maybe an option could be added to make them a lot darker and fuzzier, but it's probably not worth it at this point.

So, let's close this topic as resolved.

Quote from: kaywhyn on September 15, 2026, 02:06:00 AMThanks for the update to the rewind to previous feature for the 0.10.35 Lix release. Still need to get the approximately 30 minute video footage to you of how I use it

I have already seen you use the rewind-to-skill with the option at -2. Your usage matches how I thought you'd use it.

In the 30 minutes, I'd like you to use the tweaker. It appears when you press the filmstrip icon, it's above the nuke icon. When you would reach for your rewind, instead try to accomplish your goal with the tweaker.

Consider: You got your feature that I don't like but you claim is better. Now it's your turn to give feedback to what you don't like but I claim is better. You're already predisposed to tell me what sucks about the tweaker. This is the best way for me to get feedback.

-- Simon

This probably isn't needed now that we have the Crop rectangle. Its functionality could potentially be expanded so that it can crop outwards as well as inwards, making it much easier to quickly resize the level in any direction we want.

Closing this as resolved.