Quote from: namida on June 24, 2026, 01:44:03 AMif you have "many" talismans on a level

Three talismans.

The chameleon with your subtle eye movement will be good. In real life, they like to sit motionless like that, too.



The bubble trap is still flashy, all blades light up at the same time. How will it look when you make the blades light up one after another, with the leftmost blade first and the frontal needle last? It needn't be the brightest color either, otherwise it would again be flashy.

I didn't understand the wobbling blades in the first animation. It's not a chopping/grinding machine; it's a laser gun. It did a reasonable job still without being annoying, and it's hard to improve.

-- Simon

I think that animation would look a lot better if some horizontal movement was applied to offset the appearance of it moving backwards/forwards as it rises/falls.

Quote from: UGO on June 23, 2026, 08:46:30 PMIt's a good idea but this is not the solution for my level... There are many talismans and the player needs all solve-skills from the beginning.

You just need to expand on this a bit more, actually. You need to make it so the level itself can be solved without the pickup skill, but it is not possible to solve the level and collect the pickup skill unless you also use the pickup skill. For example, perhaps the pickup skill is a climber skill that's placed in a pit the lemming will have to climb out of.

You could however achieve this, still as a talisman rather than making it the only solution, without any new features. To do this, look at ways you can make the pickup skill substitute for an otherwise-required skill, and have a talisman for not using that other skill. For example - let's say we had a level that, at some point, there is a large wall you need to bash through. You could achieve this "must go to a specific point" by placing another skill that can destroy that wall - a Fencer, Miner, Laserer, or possibly even a Digger as a way to go around it - and then having a talisman for "No bashers".

Proxima's suggestion with the preplaced lemming also works on a technical level, but may feel a bit more "forced".

Also worth noting: Talismans don't always get the most attention. Many players will just solve the levels and not bother with the talismans. This is likely to be even more the case if you have "many" talismans on a level, especially if they're all fairly similar in nature.

Quote from: Guigui on June 23, 2026, 02:21:26 PMThe more usual way to do this is to place that pickup skill where you want the lems to go, then make the use of that skill mandatory to solve the level. Like put the exit behind a wall, dont give a basher skill at first, and put a basher pickup where you want the lemmings to go.

It's a good idea but this is not the solution for my level... There are many talismans and the player needs all solve-skills from the beginning.

Quote from: Proxima on June 23, 2026, 04:54:06 PMI still believe that the methods I suggested could work or could be made to work, for pretty much any level. In case it's not clear, I'll go over the steps more carefully:
* Choose a skill that is not currently used, for example, digger.
* Add a section, enclosed from the rest of the level, with a pre-placed lemming and a separate exit. Set up this new section so the lemming can only be saved with a digger.
* Add a digger skill pickup.
* Now, if for example there are 20 lemmings in the main level, you can have a talisman for saving 21. This requires getting the pickup skill.

Good idea. This could be a solution.

Quote from: Simon on June 23, 2026, 06:50:38 PMI'll wager that it's reasonable to use buttons. Post your level and we'll look at it together how to do it with buttons!

When you use buttons, you have immediate support. And buttons will be easy to understand for your players. Many players will even expect your design problem to be solved with buttons, and would find skill-spamming strange.

I prefer to decide if I use buttons. Maybe this could work for one talisman.

Quote from: WillLem on June 23, 2026, 06:11:32 PMUGO: I'll let you know when this is done, and we can try the feature out in SuperLemmix first before putting it forward again for NeoLemmix. If we can provide tangible examples of levels for which the talisman is the best possible way to enforce a particular solution, it's much more likely to be accepted.

Ok. What are the differences between SuperLemmix and NeoLemmix ? For my part I am going to finish my level.

Quote from: Proxima on June 22, 2026, 01:25:22 AM* Buttons that unlock an exit. (If you want the buttons to be optional, for a talisman rather than for passing the level, you can have an open exit in the main part of the level, and a closed-off part with a locked exit, then have a talisman for saving all the lemmings in the closed-off part.)

Quote from: UGO on June 22, 2026, 03:15:21 PMthese solutions are not satisfactory for my level.

I'll wager that it's reasonable to use buttons. Post your level and we'll look at it together how to do it with buttons!

When you use buttons, you have immediate support. And buttons will be easy to understand for your players. Many players will even expect your design problem to be solved with buttons, and would find skill-spamming strange.

-- Simon

I can see this from both UGO's and Proxima's point of view here.

There is probably no harm in the talisman existing, and it would be an easy way for UGO to get exactly what he wants whilst also providing puzzle potential for other levels beyond UGO's.

One example would be a level such as Tightrope City with a "use the Cloner" talisman and no Blockers available. Wherever the Cloner is assigned, they will walk in the opposite direction. It then becomes necessary to find a way to turn them around. Yes, you could simply provide a Cloner and make a talisman for "save SR + 1", but "use the Cloner" arguably presents the same challenge in a more direct way, and presentation is important to some designers (myself included). It's not always desirable to find some clunky workaround when what you want is something elegant and simple.

Then again, NeoLemmix does provide many simple, elegant ways to enforce traversal to a particular part of a level. SuperLemmix even more so, since it has the Collectibles feature (which is arguably the best way for UGO to get what he wants for his specific level).

I'm happy to add this talisman to SuperLemmix to see how it plays out. I'll design a few levels using it myself to see what the possibilities are, and with UGO's permission I'll port his level over and apply the talisman to see if it does indeed get the desired result.

If the talisman is "Use X of [Skill]", I'd suggest an upper limit for X so that it doesn't get ridiculous and trollish ("Use 1000 Builders", for example) - 10 seems good as a limit, can we agree?

I'll also add a "Use All Skills" talisman which will be disallowed (by both Game and Editor) for levels with more than 20 total skills. This number can be tweaked later, it's been chosen purely as something to start from.

UGO: I'll let you know when this is done, and we can try the feature out in SuperLemmix first before putting it forward again for NeoLemmix. If we can provide tangible examples of levels for which the talisman is the best possible way to enforce a particular solution, it's much more likely to be accepted.

Quote from: Guigui on June 23, 2026, 02:21:26 PMThe more usual way to do this is to place that pickup skill where you want the lems to go, then make the use of that skill mandatory to solve the level.

That ignores UGO's specific goal: to make the pickup skill required for a talisman, but not required for solving the level.

I still believe that the methods I suggested could work or could be made to work, for pretty much any level. In case it's not clear, I'll go over the steps more carefully:
* Choose a skill that is not currently used, for example, digger.
* Add a section, enclosed from the rest of the level, with a pre-placed lemming and a separate exit. Set up this new section so the lemming can only be saved with a digger.
* Add a digger skill pickup.
* Now, if for example there are 20 lemmings in the main level, you can have a talisman for saving 21. This requires getting the pickup skill.

Alright, this can work.
The more usual way to do this is to place that pickup skill where you want the lems to go, then make the use of that skill mandatory to solve the level. Like put the exit behind a wall, dont give a basher skill at first, and put a basher pickup where you want the lemmings to go.

My goal is to oblige the lemmings to go to a specific place in my level. And the idea that I found for do it is to put a pickup skill item with a skill that isn't available at first, and then command a lemming to go to get that skill and use it, even if it's "in vacuum".