Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AMYou have a style incompatibility in both directions: Can't play old content in new RetroLemmini, can't play new content in earlier Lemmini.

Despite the strong wording of the linked post, it's really more of an advisory than an outright incompatibility. A couple of us are currently checking existing levels; so far, only a small handful are affected. The vast majority of levels work as expected following the update.

RetroLemmini levels that make use of the new, single exit graphic unfortunately won't be compatible as-is in older versions, but this is an acceptable trade-off; a single image for the exit is something that should have been in place from the start.

Nonetheless, in either direction, the "mods" system can be used to ensure compatibility if push comes to shove, and if the user doesn't want to update the styles.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 05:19:27 AMCan you even recommend all those RetroLemmini, SuperlemminiToo, ..., to play Lemmings 1 and ONML anymore? You instruct to install the DMA L1/ONML pack and say nothing about the style incompatibility.

There's nothing to say regarding these levels. Care was taken to ensure that the correct image was replaced for each style (i.e. whichever image represents the top-left part of the exit, be it the main part or the animated part).

The levels in Lemmings Plus I that were broken by the styles updates didn't use the exit top (the animated part), which happened to represent the top-left part of the exit in the styles used by these levels. This is a very unusual design choice, and the reason for the reported issue.

Since all of the L1 and ONML levels use both parts of the exit, they are completely unaffected by the styles update. So, we can continue to recommend RetroLemmini for playing these packs.

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EDIT: It would be possible to add the deprecated pieces back in to the styles to ensure cross-compatibility, but I'm only happy to do this if it proves to be a major problem. So far, we've fixed the small handful of existing levels that have been affected, and any content made since the release of RetroLemmini should ideally be played in the most up-to-date version available anyway.

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 01:34:11 AMThe following levels have been fixed for compatibility with RetroLemmini 2.4 (specifically, styles revision 2.2):

PLEASE NOTE: Following this update, this pack is no longer compatible with SuperLemmini or SuperLemminiToo. Please continue to use V1.2 for those engines.

You have a style incompatibility in both directions: Can't play old content in new RetroLemmini, can't play new content in earlier Lemmini.

Can you even recommend all those RetroLemmini, SuperlemminiToo, ..., to play Lemmings 1 and ONML anymore? You instruct to install the DMA L1/ONML pack and say nothing about the style incompatibility.

-- Simon

Done, thanks.

-- Simon

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 04:13:27 AM"How to play L1" should also be simplified
get that information once they've clicked the relevant link

Hmm. It's possible to make extra topics: One for vanilla Lemmix (that tells you invisible hotkeys etc.), one for Amiga Emulation with the many choices, ..., then tie them together in How to Play L1. I'm sure you can condense it to half its size like that.

There is merit in seeing the full installation instructions at a glance, without indirection. Oh, that engine requires five steps to play. Oh, this runs in the browser and requires no installation.

The main worry is: Once you redirect to separate topics, those will be generally about the individual engine, not narrowly focused about getting L1 running in that engine. Maybe that's fine, at least you're now busy installing an engine that can later play L1.

You can try. We can always revert it if it sucks.

-- Simon

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 04:10:01 AMDo we have an existing way to convert this [Cheapo] content to .nxlv (or .lvl or .ini)?

Not automatically! The problem is that Cheapo levels are saved as bitmaps, so it's hard to convert that back into individual pieces. (And many Cheapo tilesets never got converted to NL.) Unless you could somehow write a program to calculate the tile locations from the bitmap, the only way would be rebuilding every level manually.

Quote from: Simon on December 28, 2025, 03:35:26 AMBest: Duplicate How to play L1 and adapt it to the separate task of joining custom level culture, i.e., to both playing and editing.
...
I'll link to the result from here.

Good idea. If I get some time, I'll do this. I'd suggest keeping the list as easy-to-read as possible. We don't need to list lots and lots of features, we can just name the engine, link to it, and give a brief description which conveys the engine's main USP (very much like the OP in this topic, come to think of it).

Really, the "How to play L1" should also be simplified further. People want to see links to click and brief overviews, not big paragraphs of information. They can get that information once they've clicked the relevant link; the brief overview should tell them if it's a version they want, or not.

Quote from: Proxima on December 28, 2025, 04:03:13 AMCheapo, for example, had hundreds, maybe thousands, of levels made for it that have never been converted to more recent engines.

Do we have an existing way to convert this content to .nxlv (or .lvl or .ini)?

If not, this could be a good project for someone (I already have more than enough to deal with Lemmings-wise, but would be happy to support the project if someone else wants to take it on).

It's good to maintain a list (with short descriptions and links) to currently maintained engines, to help new arrivals connect with the content they are most likely to want.

But it's also good to keep these lists of older engines, as there are many reasons readers might want to check them out. Cheapo, for example, had hundreds, maybe thousands, of levels made for it that have never been converted to more recent engines.

This is now fixed (commit ec3ca87).

The players.ini file is saved when adding and deleting players, and any time global settings are saved (usually when closing dialogs and between screens). The list now persists between sessions, and it's no longer necessary to build the list manually in players.ini.

RetroLemmini 2.5 will be released soon with this fix included.

Note to self: I'm not sure why the original call to save the list was removed (in commit bace848), but adding it back in with reload set to true/false depending on the caller solves the problem.

I recommend to preserve this (2013 list of game engines) as it is, as an historic artifact. It's not a websearch landing pad, unlike the maintained How to Play L1 on Modern Computers.

It would be better to rewrite my half-baked How to Play and Create Custom Levels, then point to that rewrite from the 2013 list. But that's also from 2017, and I think it's good to rewrite from scratch these things every 5-10 years.

Best: Duplicate How to play L1 and adapt it to the separate task of joining custom level culture, i.e., to both playing and editing. The format of the post can still be like How to play L1. It always starts with installing some custom engine. But the choice/order/instructions of the engines will be different. Presumably CE/NL -> Lix -> RetroLemmini -> SuperLemmix (assuming you maintain that still) -> Golems (if that has custom level upload), eyeballed by how much attention these draw? You don't have to cover it all, nobody knows all of them by heat.

I'll do that in 2026 when I'm back at my main computer. Or you can spearhead it and I'll join the effort.

Either way, I'll link to the result from here.

Quote from: WillLem on December 28, 2025, 02:29:59 AMI'd also suggest that we point to this post from here as well.

"This post" is "How to play Lemmings (1991) on a modern PC" and the 2013 list already links there. It's only that the link has the older caption "How to play old Lemmings on a modern PC". Will update the link caption.

Quotemerge the two topics

I prefer to keep the duplication. Both posts are for newbies. The most common question is how to play L1, and the instructions for playing L1 should have have no clutter. Level editing is clutter. Lix is clutter.

-- Simon