I managed save 3 on Betcha can't save just one!, save 4 seems impossible. Do we want to edit levels to make 100% possible? I'm 50/50 on whether we should tbh.

The lists I posted are just there to document my favourites, really. Of course I'd like to see them included, but I'm equally happy to leave level selection entirely up to Proxima; I'll ultimately back whatever he decides upon, even if it means some of my picks don't make the cut. I also strongly support Mobius' picks as well.

Good work so far, everyone, keep it up!

Lem Dunk is possible to save all but one. It would almost certainly be possible to save 100% if the trapdoor order were 1 - 3 - 2, haven't verified this yet.

However, this depends on the RR being 25 in NeoLemmix, which is slower than the slowest possible RR in other engines, so that's something we would have to change anyway.

WillLem voted for keeping the Mazu / Clam / IS levels (and Betcha can't save is by IS) so I'm pretty sure he does want it considered for v5 

Quote from: mobius on April 04, 2026, 01:53:01 AMLem dunk -- I'm *pretty* sure saving 100% is possible, might be pretty tough though, its been a long time since I've played this level.

Definitely impossible to 100% given the skillset and the level design. The middle hatch is second to spawn, after the left entrance, so even if you build as late as possible with the first Lemming, you won't be able to catch the first Lemming that spawns from the middle hatch before he lands in the water. So, you're guaranteed at least one loss on the level no matter what.

QuoteBetcha can't save just one! - as is; saving 100%, I wanna say somebody did it at some point but with a lot of trickery, maybe even glitchery. Saving 3 is at least doable considering there is the level (not included here) "Betcha can't lose just one!" which is essentially a repeat with the same skills.

The v2.0 pack has a talisman for saving 3 for "Betcha can't save just one!" This level is currently not in the v4.0 pack, so it sounds like WillLem wants it considered for inclusion for v5 Unless he's simply stating the level as one of his favorites on his list.

Quote from: WillLem on April 04, 2026, 12:19:52 AMThe only thing I'd suggest is that perhaps rather than a fixed number limit, it may be best to set a deadline after which "no more fixes" is put in place (similar to namida's approach with NL). That might be more appropriate for this particular project, and means that you can revise levels as many times as you see fit up until that date.

Not a bad idea actually. This will ultimately depend on what levels made the cut and how easy they are to backroute fix.

QuoteAgreed, with the exception of Proxima drafting the first pack. It's a good way to get the ball rolling, and is unlikely to be impacted too much by the votes anyway.

Honestly, I would had waited for the poll to close before doing even the task of selecting levels, but if some people want to do so (and already have, from what it sounds like from at least 2 or 3 people), then sure, I guess Just don't want it to be a case of work gets done only for it to be all for naught because there were more "no's" than "yeses" when the poll closes Again, I highly doubt the yeses will get overturned, but you never know. Though of course we could always override the poll decision and still go ahead with the project even in the case of the no's having more votes. Then in this case, when the level selection gets done wouldn't matter anymore, whether before or after the poll closes

It doesn't really matter, as I'll be the one putting the pack together for this awesome community anyway based on what we decide as a group on what levels should and shouldn't make the cut. It's good practice for me anyway, as I too have a level pack of my own that's been a WIP for some time now Link with more info in my signature      

QuoteWhatever kaywhyn decides as regards to backroute-fix limits, it seems to be clear to all of us that there should be a limit, and that limit shouldn't be surpassed, at least not by any of us.

One of the main purposes of this project is to have a set-and-forget couple of packs which don't need endless maintenance, and then a new pack to which we can add levels going forward.

If any issues with the levels do arise after the finished product is posted, I may still continue to do long-term maintenance on the pack and release updates as appropriate and if I see it necessary, even if no one else is interested in working on it further. That's fine with me if so I will very likely post and ask if what I spot is necessary to fix before doing so    

Quote from: Proxima on April 02, 2026, 04:36:56 PMv2 has 210 levels (7 x 30), not 270 as I said in my earlier post. I've fixed the post now with all the calculations that follow from this. The total number of available levels (v2 and v4 combined) is still 341.

Heh, didn't even notice your inaccuracy on the level count for the V2 pack Thank you for your complete honesty

I voted, but as stated elsewhere I don't really have strong feelings on the matter.

to respond to some of your comments:

Lem dunk -- I'm *pretty* sure saving 100% is possible, might be pretty tough though, its been a long time since I've played this level.

Betcha can't save just one! - as is; saving 100%, I wanna say somebody did it at some point but with a lot of trickery, maybe even glitchery. Saving 3 is at least doable considering there is the level (not included here) "Betcha can't lose just one!" which is essentially a repeat with the same skills.

Quote from: roltemurto on April 02, 2026, 07:34:31 AMOn your concern about existing lemming effects (countdowns, balloon pop, etc.) potentially rendering beneath the foreground object: for this use case that's actually acceptable or even preferable. A timebomb countdown visible through a tunnel arch would look fine and is arguably better than it being hidden.

My concern is the opposite: the lemming being behind the paint object, but the effect (countdown, portal warp, etc) being above the paint object. There would likely be a way to sort this out, though.

Quote from: roltemurto on April 02, 2026, 07:34:31 AM- Additionally, when a lemming's position is covered by a FOREGROUND-flagged decoration, you can have the engine draw a simple outline or silhouette of that lemming to rlEffects as well, ater the decoration is composited. Since both would write to the same layer and decorations are drawn before lemmings in the pipeline, the outline would naturally sit on top of the foreground asset. I believe the infrastructure for this already exists in the codebase as the CombineFixedColor is already used for similar fixed-color overlay passes and the lemming's bounding rect is readily available at draw time.

Hmm. A good solution to the 'hiding the lemmings' problem, but by no means trivial to implement and, considering that the proposed feature is intended to be purely visual, could spoil the intended aesthetic somewhat...?

Quote from: roltemurto on April 02, 2026, 07:34:31 AMAnd sincerely thank you for keeping "The" nostalgia alive and keep improving it up to this day. I was stunned with disbelief when I discovered your fork (and NeoLemmix to be totally frank).
I wish you a great day!

Thank you for your kind words, I'm glad you're enjoying SuperLemmix!

I should've known. Good one!

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 02, 2026, 08:44:41 AMYes, splitting the current v4.0 RotL pack into two packs of 120 levels each and then as a result Lemmings Assemble is its own thing independent of any of the RotL packs (save for any levels that get used from the Outtakes and overflow/extra pool) available makes complete sense to me now.
...
I agree about not leaving the 2022 RotL pack the way it currently is

Glad to know. It's important that we all want the same thing here, and we seem to (which is great!)

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 02, 2026, 08:44:41 AMI don't think it'll be possible to fix all backroutes with only one update ... Here, I would suggest giving it maybe 3 versions, similar to how you detailed me your approach to backroute fixing your levels

Absolutely, that's reasonable.

The only thing I'd suggest is that perhaps rather than a fixed number limit, it may be best to set a deadline after which "no more fixes" is put in place (similar to namida's approach with NL). That might be more appropriate for this particular project, and means that you can revise levels as many times as you see fit up until that date.

It's ultimately up to you how you want to approach this, though. Whatever you think is best.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 02, 2026, 08:44:41 AMOne thing, and that is I would suggest letting the poll run its course first before we commit to our duties.

Agreed, with the exception of Proxima drafting the first pack. It's a good way to get the ball rolling, and is unlikely to be impacted too much by the votes anyway.

Quote from: Proxima on April 03, 2026, 10:27:35 AMmy hope is that by putting in the work now, we'll reach a version we're happy to sign off on as the definitive final version so that no long-term maintenance is necessary (especially as the NL engine will now have no further updates). If more backroutes turn up later, we just accept that the pack isn't perfect.

Strongly, strongly agree.

Whatever kaywhyn decides as regards to backroute-fix limits, it seems to be clear to all of us that there should be a limit, and that limit shouldn't be surpassed, at least not by any of us.

One of the main purposes of this project is to have a set-and-forget couple of packs which don't need endless maintenance, and then a new pack to which we can add levels going forward.

Quote from: Proxima on April 03, 2026, 10:27:35 AMI'd like it to be done so that I can move on and get back to finishing my own pack (which I have been promising to do for years at this point).

Can't wait!

Quote from: WillLem on April 03, 2026, 11:28:22 PMJust to add my own two cents to this, here are my favourite levels so far (which I'd be sad to see removed unless they're present in another pack somewhere):

NOTE: I'll update these lists later as I'm still working my way through the pack - when I do update them, I'll repost the lists for convenience.

WillLem's favourite ROTL levels

Rounds and swingabouts
Bat country
No loitering
Crystal caves
Lem dunk (a save all solution would be nice)
Brick City
Crossing The Chasm
Harder, Better, Miner, Stronger
Don't Leave Me Hanging!
Lempire State Building
Use the grey matter for this one
Think Again!
Betcha can't save just one! (a save all solution should be possible, though)
Fiery Depths
The Climbing Frame
A break in the pillar
Dilemma

And, some that I've identified as possible levels to remove:

Candidates for removal

Build it up with iron and steel - far too pixel-precise, at least in the RL version. If kept, it should be revised to allow more margin for error
Subterranean - this one look fairly ugly due to what I can only imagine are backroute-fixes which pretty much give away the solution. I'd suggest revising the backroute fixes or removing the level
Crossing Paths Part Two - not as interesting as part one, and easier. The two could swap places!

Also, I voted for "keep them in the level pool". Reason: there seem to be other levels present in ROTL which are part of packs elsewhere (example: Think Again! by Wierdy Beardy), so it does seem a bit of an unfair reason to remove them. Perhaps instead of making "exists elsewhere" a criteria fr removal, choose some limit for how many of an individual author's levels can be present. This limit can be made less arbitrary by basing it on what's needed to actually fill the pack, of course.

Just to add my own two cents to this, here are my favourite levels so far (which I'd be sad to see removed unless they're present in another pack somewhere):

NOTE: I'll update these lists later as I'm still working my way through the pack - when I do update them, I'll repost the lists for convenience.

WillLem's favourite ROTL levels

Rounds and swingabouts
Bat country
No loitering
Crystal caves
Lem dunk (a save all solution would be nice)
Brick City
Crossing The Chasm
Harder, Better, Miner, Stronger
Don't Leave Me Hanging!
Lempire State Building
Use the grey matter for this one
Think Again!
Betcha can't save just one! (a save all solution should be possible, though)
Fiery Depths
The Climbing Frame
A break in the pillar
Dilemma

And, some that I've identified as possible levels to remove:

Candidates for removal

Build it up with iron and steel - far too pixel-precise, at least in the RL version. If kept, it should be revised to allow more margin for error
Subterranean - this one look fairly ugly due to what I can only imagine are backroute-fixes which pretty much give away the solution. I'd suggest revising the backroute fixes or removing the level
Crossing Paths Part Two - not as interesting as part one, and easier. The two could swap places!