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Messages - Strato Incendus

#631
Thanks for your input as well, Armani! ;) Indeed, the 83-level version was one that remained the latest one for a very long time. That leaves me quite certain that I haven't forgotten about any level, and that the 30th level from the Heavy rank (not the one in 30th position, though) simply didn't exist until yesterday.

So let's see how quickly I can complete the first draft of this pack now! :) I won't rush it, but I do still have some rough ideas... maybe three levels won't be enough for them all, and some of them will have to wait for the later releases (i.e. Lemmings: Hall of Fame and Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll).
#632
Thanks for your quick reply, kaywhyn! ;)

I think it is mainly Armani who might be able to provide some insight into whether the Heavy rank ever had 30 levels in his version, or whether the latest was always stuck at 29 levels.

nin10doadict did some early testing for me, which I very much appreciate as well, of course - he helped to identify some of the most glaring backroutes on the early ranks. But beyond that, he stated the pack got too difficult for him... which is completely fine and actually encouring, because of course I want this pack to be more difficult than my previous ones. :evil: I have created enough beginner-to-intermediate content already, maybe even too much of it for some people's taste.

Anyways, this just means that nin10doadict most likely never played a version of this pack that included a complete or nigh-complete Heavy rank.
#633
QuoteWhoa, you're on the really low end of the RAM. Generally, people get at least 8GB or 16GB of RAM. You'll definitely want the recommended amount of RAM if you're going to do a lot of editing and other resource heavy intensive tasks. Also, 1TB for the SSD is quite common, as 256GB is generally nowhere near enough for most people, especially if you have a lot of programs, pictures, music, and videos.

The funny thing is, the iMac I'm using for all my music production also only has 8 GB RAM (even though it can be upgraded as far as 32 or even 64 GB, if I recall correctly). Yet, so far I haven't needed more yet. I am perfectly aware that most audio production computers have at least 16 GB RAM (as my new laptop has). At least with the 2018 iMac, it is still possible to upgrade the RAM yourself. (Only if you go for the more expensive model, though, which still has a lid at the back of the screen - with iMacs, screen and computer are all integrated into one flat package.)

QuoteThat's why I constantly say that "Computers are one of the greatest inventions ever, but it's also one of the most frustrating inventions ever."

I know this phrase as "computers solve problems you wouldn't have otherwise". :thumbsup:

Kind of like playing Lemmings: We first create virtual problems for virtual people to then find solutions for these virtual, self-imposed problems.

QuoteIn that case, I recommend getting at least a 2GB external hard drive.

I assume you meant 2 TB? ;) 2 GB I already have in my Dropbox, but that's approaching its maximum capacity.


Anyways, my old hard drive is attached now, and as I expected, it's still functional. So I just copied my Old-Formats and Very-Old-Formats folders from there. Since December 2018 was already after the initial release of Lemmings World Tour, all the three preceding packs (Paralems, Pit Lems, and Lemmicks) were completed by then.

For Lemmicks, I wasn't sure at first whether there might be a newer version of Lemmicks here on the forums after I fixed some backroutes... but the forum link should point to the Dropbox link, and both the nxp.file in the Dropbox as well as the retrieved one are from 25th June 2018. Is that the version of Lemmicks you played, kaywhyn? ;)

I assume it is, because in the Lemmicks thread I just re-discovered that WillLem had asked me for the individual level files at the beginning of this year, and I made a zip folder of everything. :thumbsup:
That Lemmicks zip file is from February 2020, but all the level files still have 25th June 2018 as their latest modification date. The only three files in that zip folder newer than that are three level screenshots from fall 2018. Since my Image Backup is from December 2018, even those .pngs are included in it.



Anyways, I'm now trying to retreive anything else from up to December 2018 that I might still need... I could potentially wipe it clean afterwards and use it as an external SSD hard drive. After all, I still have the System Image Backup on my older external hard drive, and the SSD now only contains everything from that System Image Backup.

I really wish I had given up on my old laptop earlier, then I wouldn't have used the System Image Recovery and all files up until two days ago would still be there. I valued the laptop over the data on the hard drive, because the most important files were in my Dropbox, and the old laptop had some software installed (even in its 12-2018-state) that might be quite a hassle to re-install on my new laptop now (including some work-related stuff that requires a VPN tunnel to work, so I need to set up the client for that tunnel again, etc.).

I'm now trying out DiskDigger and Recuva to see whether those programs can retrieve some of the data from the SSD before I reset it to December 2018 with the System Image Backup.
#634
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
September 27, 2020, 10:32:40 AM
Well, at least Trump made me aware of the schmoyoho YouTube channel: A group of siblings that applies Melodyne (a pitch correction software for singers, often incorrectly referred to as "Autotune" - because there's nothing automatic about it, you can manually draw in the pitches) to TV interviews and also political debates. One of their other songs, which was "sung" by Tom Brady, also made it into my upcoming pack Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll.

QuoteThe Mata Nuiy

Mata Nui is both the name of an island, as well as of the main divinity, in the Lego Bionicle universe. The Toa (Maori for "warrior") are the six heroes the story revolves around. The inhabitants used to be called Tohunga, but apparently that's a title of some type of shaman in the Maori language. So they changed the term for the inhabitants into "Matoran" after just 1 or 2 years. Which seems more fitting anyway as it sounds more similar to the name of the island.

Bionicle started in the early 2000s and lasted in its original form for about a decade. After that, Lego tried to reboot it, but I don't think the new versions of the toys ever achieved the same level of popularity.

The level "Six heroes, one destiny" was actually playing the soundtrack of the first Bionicle movie in my personal version. But of course, those tracks are copyrighted, so I can't share them.
#635
I kind of like that Talisman sign and the window behind it is back, actually. I don't particularly care for Talismans in general, but when I do, my sense of "completionism" is triggered much more easily by having them all in a nice overview that can be completed - instead of just attached to every single level as a random additional challenge that you can either accept or not.

Maybe the other "completionists" here on the forums (e.g. kaywhyn and ericderkovits) agree with me on that? ;)
#636
Thanks for your explanations, namida! ;)

Regarding the error, it seems like this has something to do with the age of the file / the version of the editor with which they were created / last modified.

Knock on wood, I've just checked the oldest levels of my other two packs currently in development - Lemmings: Hall of Fame and Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll - and so far, they seem to be fine. Maybe it was a lucky coincidence for me that on many of these oldest levels, I had recently changed something again, so that their last change date was newer. For example, "Walking after midnight", a level originally featuring the L2 Shadow tileset, I had reshaped to make it look more like L3D Alien.

Lemmings Open Air was apparently indeed the most critical pack, because it's the one longest in development, and it was the oldest levels from that particular pack that caused the issue. Even the New-Formats conversion of Lemmings World Tour is newer, so those levels don't seem to cause trouble either.

Since only a few LOA levels from my Dropbox caused the error, not the ones from the recently uploaded zip, I have already replaced all the broken levels from LOA with those from the ZIP file. The downside of that is of course that I currently don't have any remaining broken examples to send to you - for diagnostic purposes, this would of course be interesting. Especially because this "object-reference / object-instance" error occured on both my old (now broken) laptop AND the brand-new one I'm currently using.


I was already pretty fatalistic about Lemmings: Hall of Fame and Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll. Because if those levels were affected, there wouldn't be any zip files on the forums yet, only my Dropbox. But so far, these levels seem to be stable. :crylaugh:

In the unfortunate case that this error pops up again, I will gladly come back to your offer, though!


Quote from: namidaCan you PM me a couple of the affected levels (along with any unreleased styles, if applicable, that they use)?
#637
Always nice when a band member leaves the band hanging a few hours before the gig. In this case, the band member that spontaneously threw in the towel was my old laptop. But thanks to me having backed-up everything in Dropbox, as well as having my previous ZIP file from this thread to save a couple of what seemed like somehow "corrupted" level files, the show can continue as planned! Only three more levels to go!

The reason why I've still added another update to the starting post now (aside from wanting to be on the safe side again with regards to any possible data loss ;) ) is that a couple of levels needed fixing due to not one, but two different physics changes:

Glider-Faller physics change:
- Fire escape (Soft rank)
- Hunting high and low (Soft rank)
- Touch the hand of a Lem (Loud rank)
- Valkea joulu (Heavy rank)
- Forlorn skies (Hardcore rank)

"Fire escape" now gives the solution away a little more because a crucial piece of terrain is now shaped in a more salient way. But eh, it's a first-rank level, so why not.
"Hunting high and low" needed some additional updrafts to still catch a Glider who would otherwise have fallen through them.
"Touch the hand of a Lem" somehow had the fire trap in the middle reaching slightly too far up, so that it killed a lemming before a crucial skill assignment.
"Valkea joulu" didn't actually require any level fixing, only my replay needed to be adjusted. You just might want to check yours if you've already played this level. In my case, I didn't even have to replay manually from the point on where the replay broke - just some small replay editing was sufficient. (In case you're new and don't know how this works: Press the key E to select from a list and delete any missplaced skill assignments; press W to turn the replay icon blue so that you can add in further skills without stopping the currently running replay).
"Forlorn skies", as I said earlier, was affected with regards to the starting altitude of a Glider. However, this is in the player's hands, so here also only your replay file might have to be fixed. There was nothing broken about the level itself.


Ohnoers-drown physics change

- I believe I can fly (Loud rank)

It took me a while to understand how the Swimmers in this level could actually drown. Especially because this solution doesn't use Swimmers in their standard application: Swimmers usually don't oh-no. However, Climbers do oh-no. Oh-noers, according to the new physics change and internal game logic, need their hands to oh-no, and therefore always drown, even if they are Swimmers.
Thus, the interaction of Climber, Swimmer, and Bomber was what was causing trouble in this level. I sadly had to fix it in a way now that takes something pretty unique away from the level (the water-on-terrain is now one pixel narrower, so that the Climbers just climb up regular terrain in which they can comfortably oh-no). But at least the solution didn't have to change on a conceptual level.

There is also a music.nxmi file included now! ;) It will simply establish the standard rotation for my custom recordings of the original Lemmings music. If you don't have the mp3s yet, simply download them from the Lemmings World Tour thread, the tracks are identical. ;)



Finally, apparently I completely forgot about one of my own statements from a previous post:
Quotethe download hasn't been upgraded yet, because there's only one more level missing until the Heavy rank will also be completed.

As you can see, the next post after that was already entirely about the Hardcore rank. I hadn't actually finished the Heavy rank yet! ;) The last level was still missing. The reason I never noticed was that my Heavy folder contained 32 files (30 levels + levels.nxmi + rank sign), as expected. However, one of them was only reserved as a title, the file was empty. I should have noticed in-game in the level selection menu, but I didn't, at least for a long time.

So unless your level selection menu (Armani? kaywhyn? ;) ) already has 30 levels on the Heavy rank and I've missed something / lost a level in the crash, this one should be the missing level from the Heavy rank (meaning I just created it today):


Burning the witches

And here are five more for Hardcore, bringing the total level count up to 117 out of 120.

This is the one I was working on when my old laptop crashed, and that I re-created from a spontaneous hand-drawing and memory this morning, having just enough time to save it in my Dropbox before my laptop crashed a second time, this time for good:


Nemesis - sounds like an apt title given the context, but the name was actually already selected prior to that ;)

A slightly more daring case of original-Lemmings tileset mixing:

Crystal mountain

The Hardcore rank features predominantly Death-Metal songs. But I had to add a few more famous Black-Metal bands, as well, like Gorgoroth. Of course, we all know what those types like to sing about:

Open the gates

Another song by Venom. And what a fitting title for a level on the last rank of a Lemmings pack! :D

Mayhem with mercy

And another one with a wonderfully whacky and weird solution. Somewhat pixel-precise, but very cool when it works out!

Fall from grace
#638
Levels for v10 or older / Re: [NeoLemmix] Paralems
September 26, 2020, 10:57:55 PM
6 hours for writing this feedback? :lem-mindblown: Thanks a lot for your effort and your extensive input... I gotta say, though, you clearly subjected this pack to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn't deserve. :P

As you know now, my old laptop died this weekend. Paralems, Pit Lems, and Lemmicks were all not part of my Dropbox. The packs are so old and have been completed for a while though that I assume they should all still be on my external hard drive in the current version - because back then, I only backed things up on the external hard drive. If they aren't there in the latest version, I can still download the pack from the forums again like anyone else, and then just use level dump to retreive the single levels.

I believe level dump should also work in NeoLemmix 1.43? So that in a pinch, I could also do this for Lemmicks? ???

I think I already considered this option after the crash during World Tour development. Because I remember stressing that I was wise enough not to disable level dumping. (I think so far I've only seen Colorful Arty disable it on Old-Formats SubLems, so that nobody could "steal" his "artworks", I assume :evil: .) In New Formats, every pack consists of the single level files anyway; but in Old Formats, opening a pack in the player and then using level dump was the primary way of extracting and isolating the individual level files from a pack.

Thus, when all else is lost, I should be able to regain access to editable level files for my three Old-Formats-exclusive packs (Paralems, Pit Lems, Lemmicks) again. Some of my replays might be gone, though - I'll have to check. I recently copied my entire Old-Formats Replay folder into Dropbox, so Paralems and Pit Lems replays should be there, but Lemmicks is a different thing once again.

Just saying in advance, I can't guarantee for anything. ;) At least now I have somewhat of an excuse, from a technical standpoint - instead of just "this was my very first attempt at making a pack and I don't really care anymore."


Let me address a few of your comments now; I won't go into specific levels here, I'll save that for when I've watched your replays.

Spoiler
Repetitive skill assignment: Yes, I've come to know later on that some players don't like this, even for numbers of lemmings as small as 10 or 20. In original Lemmings, it's somewhat common, though: The four instances of "We all fall down" are probably just the most infamous examples. Because technically, "Bitter lemming", "Only floaters can survive this", "Smile if you love lemmings", and even potentially "Just dig" can qualify for this as well, just to name a few. Also, original Lemmings has a lot of Builder fests, which also means repetitive skill assignment, only to the same lemming instead of many different ones, in this case. And as I said in the starting post, this pack follows original Lemmings philosophy, this is one of the things that go along with that. ;)
In contrast, Lemmings Open Air will follow original Lemmings aesthetics (with regards to graphic sets and abstract level shapes, rather than the "paintings" of the Hydra, the Death Titan etc. you find here), but NeoLemmix philosophy when it comes to level solutions.

QuoteDisturbing 16 - The Wall (Part II) Clearly a reference to the POTUS and his wall that he keeps mentioning but hasn't done anything >:( and his supposed promise of making "America great again." Also, I truly hope you are NOT a Trump fan. I'm not going to be happy if you are.

You think I'd be poking fun at him if I were? :P I'm just watching that entire circus from a safe distance here in Germany.
I've even made Trump lemming sprites with blonde-died hair and orange skin, and the example screenshot I uploaded in the custom sprite recolourings thread was taken from a New-Formats conversion of this level. Meaning, Trump now has to get over (or in this case: under) his own wall. :evil:

In New-Formats Lemmings World Tour, I think I've included the Trump sprites on a New York level, "Lempire State of Mind". That solution happens to require Bombers... which is not a political statement either :evil: Since the pack was made for Old Formats originally, the solution was invented long before the sprite set was designed.

QuoteDisturbing 24 - Face the Hydra! The best looking level of the rank! It's like a Scylla monster.

[Greek mythology technicality police]
Well, actually, Scylla was a spider with several dog heads, and had to be overcome by Odysseus / Ulysses in the strait of Messina, on his long journey back to Ithaca after the Trojan War. :P
The Hydra is the one with the snake heads, indeed - where, depending on which version of the story you read, cutting off one of its heads either lead to it just regrowing the head, or growing two heads, or even three. And that beast is from the story of Herakles / Hercules; it was one of the ordeals he had to overcome to achieve divinity.
[/Greek mythology technicality police]

Also, a crab came to the Hydra's aid during the fight. Since NeoLemmix doesn't have crabs (unless somebody ports the one from Lemmings Revolution), I had to resort to one of the clams from the L2 Beach tileset.

QuoteDisturbing 23 - Srpski level Not sure what the first level of the title means. Bit trickier than some of the other levels in the rank, although not too hard given the abundance of builders.

It means "A Serbian Level". In Serbian. ;) The words placed over the level ("nebo", "krv", and "smrt") translate to "Heaven", "blood", and "death". Quite fitting with whatever words were featured on original Lemmings levels using the Fire tileset (at least "Heaven" and "death" were definitely written over some of DMA's levels).

QuoteDisgusting 20 - Get your a**es of the fence Oops, looks like you meant "off" instead of "of" in the title.

Yes, a typo - thanks for spotting it! :D

QuoteDisgusting 25 - Omnomnom! This must be the other half of the Scylla monster that the hydra looks like from the Disturbing rank, Charybdis. Nice short and easy level.

Actually, it's supposed to be that maw-shaped creature with tentacles from Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. ;) The beast on Tatooine that's supposed to serve for Luke's and his friends' execution when they're made to walk the plank - and that ends up devouring Boba Fett. I've also included a Jawa sand crawler on the level sides.

QuoteAbhorrent 25 - Diggas in Paris The Eiffel Tower was one of my favorite places to visit when I went to Europe back in 2007. The design of this level is nice. Also, nice puzzle and solution of digging away the Eiffel Tower, although I shortcutted some of it. The exit isn't completely hidden, as at least the torches are visible.

Thank you very much! ;) Then you're certainly going to enjoy revisiting this level in Lemmings World Tour. :D Because it refers to both a song and a geographical location, it was an auto-include in that pack.

QuoteDemented 15 - Let Down Your Lems Obviously the title is a reference to Rapunzel and her long hair.

I'm not sure it's that obvious - I think you might be the first one who got it. ;)
Quote
Demented 16 - Break my fall Well that's not cool hiding the anti-splat pad. Luckily, it's right below the splat pad, and it's still probably easy to figure out that something else must be going on considering no gliders or floaters are provided.

Yep, guilty as charged - I didn't know about the option of unticking "no overwrite" for objects back then, so that they would be displayed on top of terrain. More than that, when we were discussing hidden traps back then, I myself brought up this level (no one had complained about it so far), and said I had no idea how else to accomplish this. And Nepster actually responded by calling it a great level and agreeing with me that sometimes, hiding objects can't be completely avoided. :evil: So even he as a much more experienced player didn't think of this simple solution.

Because I like the puzzle, this level is already set to be a part of "Pit Lems Remastered", and yes, don't worry, the anti-splat pad is visible there. Just like the hatch labels on levels such as "Volunteers first!", or "Skies aflame" (the latter is already part of Lemmings World Tour, with labelled hatches in both versions). New-Formats NeoLemmix applies these labels to hatches automatically anyway.

QuoteDemented 20 - The Lempire strikes back Not sure what the purpose of the zombie horde is for, considering they were absolutely no threat. Also, I'm not sure if my solution is intended, since I have so many skills leftover.

They never really seem to be a threat for anyone else but me ;) . In my intended solution, they all drop into the pit with the slowfreeze (i.e. the chamber with liquid carbonide ;) ), and as they stone one by one, slowly that pit fills up, until eventually the remaining zombies can walk over it and straight towards the crowd.

QuoteDemented 22 - No idea what you're thinking of Not sure what the purpose of this level is. Inverted terrain maybe?

No... just another case of "painting" with level tiles and leaving the interpretation up to the viewer / player. That said, the level did suddenly get a purpose when I had to find a fitting depiction of a certain AC/DC song for Lemmings World Tour, and thus the level was included on the Rockstar rank under a different name.

QuoteDemented 25 - Six heroes, one destiny Nice easy puzzle to round off the last of the plain levels before the final 5 of being special in some way.

I think all the inhabitants of Mata Nui will not be amused by you calling a level retelling the saga of their six heroic Toa "plain". :P

QuoteDemented 29 - IT'S FEEDING TIME! Ok, I definitely made the solution a bit more difficult than it needed to be. I think in Old Formats it's possible to disarm traps while platforming/building, but in New Formats it is not possible to disarm, so there's definitely inconsistencies between Old Formats and New Formats. Then again, I believe that happened in a United level, so maybe not completely inconsistent. Somewhat nice looking level with an abundance of traps everywhere. Even then, what makes this unique as part of the final 5 levels of the pack?

To my knowledge, a Disarmer should always stop building, platforming, or performing any destructive skill when he moves into a trap trigger area, in order to then perform the Disarmer animation instead. Disarmers are only unable to disarm when they fall / glide / swim / shimmy through a trap, because then they don't stand on solid ground. I think climbing through a trap shouldn't work either, but a Climber's position is technically one pixel inside a wall, i.e. on terrain. As you might remember, this is quite relevant for the Lemmicks level "Do not fear" ;) .

The point of this level was simply to be the ultimate animal trap level, to hammer home the theme again and feature as many different hungry beasts as I could cram into one level. ;) Thus, it's definitely going to be part of Pit Lems Remastered.

QuoteDemented 30 - Winter is here Ok, not sure if you intended for the player to find some way to kill all the zombies so that the regular lemmings are completely out of harm's way before forging the path to the exit. I guess the 80 RR was just right to still get the zombies killed by the icicle trap, as the second nearby zombie nearly gets by without getting killed. Even then, the time limit is quite tight if you wait for the glider zombies to die first. So I guess what makes this level unique for the final 5 levels is how it's full of zombies?

In an earlier version of the pack, the player could just wait for all the zombies to die by themselves before putting the solution into place. Now this should no longer be possible - but maybe you've found another way to "wait for the storm to pass" instead. (This is the way nin10doadict understood the title - when it was actually just a really obvious Game-of-Thrones reference, just like the first part of "The Wall". ;) )
#639
Ah, you mean because all the important information (minus the styles) is included in the pack? ;) Really good thing now that I've shared my styles folder back then with Old-Formats LWT, as well as sharing all of my custom sprite recolourings for New Formats as soon as I had made them. Or at least I believe I've uploaded all of them. Anyways, in case a certain type of sprite went missing, thanks to the recolouring feature, they're now easier to recreate than ever.

QuoteWhat kind of laptop did you end up buying? What about your previous one?

The current one is a Lenovo Legion 7, 15". The old one was an Acer from 2010, which started out at 4 GB RAM and 256 GB hard disk (non-SSD), but when said hard disk broke in 2018 while working on LWT, I exchanged it for an SSD and also increased the RAM to 8 GB, which was the maximum possible.

If you look up the Legion 7, you'll probably find that it has quite a hefty price tag. But I hope it will endure at least as long as the Acer - and since I know I can't upgrade the RAM or anything about it, because most modern laptops are "sealed shut" with nothing to screw open, any kind of upgrade I might have done later otherwise already needs to be built in.

QuoteIf you're not already doing it, I would also recommend getting an external hard drive and backing up your files to it in addition to backing up to Dropbox. At least in this way, the advantage is that no internet connection is required to access the backup files on the external hard drive. Nowadays, external hard drives tend to be quite cheap as compared in years before. If your budget can allow it, you can get an external SSD drive for faster backing up. I remember back in 2008 while I was in college my laptop had to be reformatted due to being infected by a virus, and I felt so glad that I had been backing up my files on a weekly basis and was able to restore all my files.

I already have an external hard drive (1 TB) - that's where I took the system image from. ;) This is also the way I recovered from the crash during World Tour development - in that case, my system image had just been a few days old. But apparently, December 2018 was the latest one. Sadly, new system image backups often failed whenever I tried to create one (be it for lack of space on the external hard drive, despite its 1 TB size, or just because creating those backups took my laptop so long that it was always interrupted by something).

The reason I started saving every smaller file in Dropbox is because I live pretty close to a forest. And when the first crash happened (August 2018), risk of forest fire was quite high here, so I thought "What use does an external hard drive have if I need to leave quickly? Then both my PC and my hard drive are in the same place and can be destroyed."

Thus, ironically, the existence of my external hard drive did me more harm than good this time:
Had I known that my rebooting attempt would fail, I would have extracted the old SSD hard drive directly. Then all the current data would still be on it (from between December 2018 and now). The system image allowed for a temporary recovery, but only for a couple of hours today - and it came at the cost of everything that was on that hard drive from between December 2018 and now. Because of course, a system image overwrites everything on the target hard drive.

December 2018, that's a few months after the initial release of Old-Formats LWT. And shortly before the test version of New Formats with the Shimmier was released. Lemmings Open Air pretty much revolves around the Shimmier completely.

All my levels could be retrieved from Dropbox.
However, some of the older New-Formats levels produce errors when I open them in the editor, telling me "an object reference was not linked to an object instance"?
This is a rough translation of the German error message; it refers to "JIT" debugging (just-in-time debugging).


For Lemmings Open Air, I fortunately uploaded the ZIP file containing 111 of 120 levels just a few days ago. So I can just replace my versions of the levels that display this error with the ones from the ZIP file. And this error has so far only occurred on some of the earliest levels made for Lemmings Open Air. This is a small minority, and none of my newest levels made shortly before the crash were affected.

I'm a little worried about Lemmings, Drugs, and Rock 'n Roll and Lemmings: Hall of Fame now. Because I haven't shared any test versions of those yet. So even though they're also complete in Dropbox, those copies are all I have (the earliest ones might also be on the external hard drive, and those would be the most crucial ones).

Maybe namida can tell me a little more about these JIT debugging / object-instance errors? If it's just something present or absent in the level text file, it should be potentially easy to fix.
#640
NeoLemmix Main / NeoLemmix Old Formats Installer Files?
September 26, 2020, 06:10:22 PM
So, once again my laptop crashed during the development of a pack. :devil: It happened for the first time two years ago during the final stages of Lemmings World Tour, and now of course it had to happen again during the final stages of Lemmings Open Air.

Fortunately, I had backups of all the levels in both cases - in this case I had everything in Dropbox. However, while last time it was only the hard drive that needed to be replaced, this time my laptop was thrown into a loop of constant rebooting. I was able to fix it with a system image recovery, resetting my laptop to December 2018, and then dropping all my New-Formats level packs back in from Dropbox.

The first crash occured while I was working on a level for Lemmings Open Air - I was able to recreate it from my hand-drawing and from memory this morning. I also still got the opportunity to fix some levels from LOA that had broken due to the Glider-Faller physics change. But eventually, the rebooting loop returned. Well, that laptop was 10 years old, after all; I had just upgraded its hard drive and RAM to the maximum that was possible after the last crash in 2018. So I hoped it would still last longer. But even attempting to re-install Windows from USB disk or CD didn't work.

Long story short: I rushed to the store and got myself a new laptop. I am still going to try to access my SSD hard drive from the old laptop to extract all the files. But of course, the system image recovery that reset it back to December 2018, even though it was the best chance of saving the laptop as a whole, of course deprived me of all of my newer files. I just took the risk because basically everything I worked on since that last crash in August 2018 I immediately saved in Dropbox, so I knew I wouldn't lose much.

So now I need to re-install NeoLemmix - and not just New Formats, but also Old Formats (10.13) and Very Old Formats (1.43). ;) Most importantly because I want to continue maintaininig Lemmings World Tour in both formats. But also because kaywhyn picked up my first two packs (Paralems and Pit Lems) this weekend. So of course, I at least need to be able to play them again myself to evaluate his feedback. And if for nothing else, ensuring playability of older packs is why we always keep old versions available.

However, on the NeoLemmix website, I now only find the Old-Formats player exe file, but not the rest? Meaning, whatever folders I need for the skill panel, gfx, editor etc. The styles I can all get from my Old-Formats Lemmings World Tour thread (which is especially important because I modified some of them, as you might remember).

I assume it's still possible to download version 10.13 (and version 1.43) somewhere - otherwise kaywhyn and ericderkovits (who recently replay-watched Lemmicks) wouldn't have been able to look at these older packs of mine just recently. ;) I just don't know where to get them from?

As I said, I might be able to salvage them from the SSD of my old laptop, since I already had those older versions installed back in December 2018. And this time, I assume it was not the hard drive itself that broke (as a storage space), but "just" the operating system. But I might be wrong. So I'd feel a lot safer if I simply knew from which online resource I could retreive those older versions.
#641
Level Design / Re: [DON'T] Binary win conditions
September 24, 2020, 09:42:04 PM
QuoteNow you know why I don't like viewing solutions before I have solved the level myself first and how I just have a high level of patience when it comes to solving levels in Lemmings.

I don't necessarily think the first part is particularly special about you; that should be any Lemmings player's default state. :P At least particularly in NeoLemmix, where figuring out the puzzle usually is the sole challenge, and its practical implementation / execution is entirely non-challenging.

Watching replays, from a player's standpoint (not a level creator's standpoint), is really just for when you're absolutely stuck. Even then, I usually just watch up to a point where I can derive a first hint from the replay, and then stop watching so that I can still figure out the rest of it myself.
This works especially well with IchoTolot's replay videos on YouTube, because you can just halt them in place. ;) With a replay file within the NeoLemmix player, you always have to switch between cancelling to try your on solution, then probably reloading the other user's replay again etc.

The second part, however - your high level of patience - that is probably what sets you apart much more from the average level solver. ;) As they say "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". :thumbsup: My patience as a level solver definitely wears thin quickly, especially when I encounter one of my "immediate turn-offs". :evil:
#642
Thanks for providing some insight on your level design approach! ;)

QuoteSo far, I spent more time to make this level than any other levels.(about 3.5 hours)

I can imagine! :D I assume a majority of that time went into carving out those musical notation signs?

Since we spoke about NepsterLems, I know that Nepster's level "A study in scarlet" (quite a visually striking one, being made entirely of red square blocks) was actually pieced together out of the red letters from the original Fire tileset and then cutting away excess by using the erase-terrain feature. I guess this was done because NepsterLems was developed when only original tilesets were available (or even in a completely different engine than NeoLemmix?). Today it would be much easier to create such a level made out of red square tiles using e.g. the L2 Circus tileset.

QuoteI haven't played Nepsterlem so I can't say much about that. But I assume my pack will be easier than United. I personally think some of my easiest levels are much easier than those of United and some of my hardest levels are a little bit easier than those of United so far. (If I were to put my contest levels in this pack, I will put them in around 3rd rank assuming that you've played any of my contest levels.)

No, I haven't engaged with the level design contest at all. ;) I prefer to play complete packs instead of these "community compilations". I did play some Level-of-the-Year nominees a while ago, but none from the regular level design contests. So feel free to put your contest levels in the pack, and I will be able to approach them with a fresh mind and completely "unbiased"! ;)
#643
Level Design / [DON'T] Binary win conditions
September 24, 2020, 11:11:41 AM
I've been noticing a pattern recently across various games that seems to spark frustration in players, both in me and others. Once I had become aware of this, I started thinking back whether I had encountered it in Lemmings level as well - and yes, I did. It just didn't occur to me back then that this design choice might be a general flaw, if not to say a cardinal sin of game design, instead of something specific to (custom) Lemmings packs.

Thus, most of my "ranting" in this thread will refer to other games than Lemmings ;) . And I'm not planning to hit on any specific custom level pack here. I'm just sure that we all can think of levels where we encountered this type of obstacle.

I'm talking about what I've heard being described as "binary win conditions".
A case in which the difference between success and failure comes down to a single aspect that also happens to be hard to control.
Consequently, the chance of hit or miss basically amounts to the toss of a coin. In other words: It's random. ;) As a result, frustration arises with both outcomes.
- In case of failure, the player is frustrated because they feel there is little they can control to improve the outcome. All they can do is try again and hope for the best.
- In case of success, the player can't really attribute it to their own skill, because (unless they're extremely lucky and succeed on the first attempt) through the previous failures they know the outcome is basically random. Meaning, they externalise their success as "I've just been lucky this time". They will be glad it's over, yes, but it's not something they will enjoy looking back on as a proud achievement.



Here are some examples of games that made me aware of this general pattern:

Magic: The Gathering
Every now and then, certain combo decks pop up that are extremely hard to interact with. In the best case, it amounts to playing against a clock - defeat your opponent before turn X or they pull of the combo and it's an auto-win. In other cases, it already comes down to the starting hand they draw - something over which you don't have any control.

Note that in Magic, you can take Mulligans, i.e. exchange your starting hand of cards for a new hand with one card less each time. (The current ruling is that you still draw 7 cards each time, but when you choose to keep a hand, you have to select the number of cards from your hand equal to the number of Mulligans you took, and tuck those away at the bottom of your deck.) The fewer different cards are required for a particular combo, the higher the chance it can already show up in your opponent's starting hand.

All in all, this isn't the worst example, because the option of taking a Mulligan, and the choices you can make in this regard, still add some degree of control to the situation which you don't have in some of the other cases I'm mentioning here. However, you can only make a Mulligan decision for yourself; you can't influence your opponent in theirs. Thus, if an opponent playing a combo deck makes a bad Mulligan decision, you technically rather win through a mistake of theirs than through your own skill.

Divinity 2: The Dragon Knight Saga (a.k.a. Ego Draconis + Flames of Vengeance)
This game all in all is very well designed with a perfectly motivating difficulty curve: Any time you think "alright, this is the point where it gets too difficult and I'm about to quit", that's precisely when you overcome the obstacle, and this reward hooks you for the next challenge which repeats the process. That's what made this game so addictive and gives it great replay value in my view, even despite some of the terrible "subverting-player-expectations" elements that the developers decided to include as wannabe plot twists.

However, there is a certain bug in the game that can occur randomly with any given boss you fight: A bug which will give them a skill - or rather, powers up one of the skills they naturally have - on such a level that it instantly kills you, irrespective of the number of life points you have. I've seen this happen to the skill "Fireball" (self-evident for any roleplayer) and "Magic Strike" (in German translated as "Magisches Trommelfeuer", i.e. a repeated bombardment of direct magical hits that you can't evade). With Fireball, the issue is that its area of effect also increases with level, so jumping out of the way of destruction is impossible if it already does such excessive amounts of damage. With Magic Strike, the issue is that you can't evade it, period. That already sounds broken enough, but usually these individual hits of Magic Strike do much less damage. It's just that this bug takes either skill completely over the top.

Theoretically, this bug can occur with any boss - that's what makes it a binary win condition: It can either appear or it doesn't, and depending on this, you're either completely screwed or you are not.


But I've heard it reported most commonly for Laiken and Razakel (a Lich lord and his demon friend), Geshniz (a commander of the Black Ring in the flying fortress in Broken Valley), and Ba'al (the demon in Broken Valley from whom you need to get the seal to open the entrance to the Hall of Echoes).
Once you enter said Hall of Echoes, though, which is the realm of the dead, you encounter a bunch of the bosses you previously fought again (because they're now dead and want to take revenge on you), all in rapid succession. This means here the bug can occur on any one of them: Your former Dragon Slayer brethren, Amdusias, Undead Sassan, Ba'al, Laiken and Razakel, and/orLord John and Lady Kara.

There are a few choices you have to deal with this bug:

- Reload an earlier save game, since the bug occurs when you enter the boss's dungeon for the first time. This isn't always viable, though, because some bosses have quite large dungeons before them, so you'd have to replay a bunch of the game and hope for the best when you meet the boss the second time.
- Send your save game in to the developers and have them fix it manually.
- Lower the game difficulty, which lowers your opponents life points and damage output (Can sometimes work, but if the bug is present, you might still just make it by the skin of your teeth).
- If you have the Developer's Cut version of the game, you can open the console and enable God Mode to get through this particular boss fight. In other words: Combat a bug with a cheat. Legitimate in the eyes of many, I assume, but of course still unsatisfying, because you only have the choice between "completely impossible" and "auto solve". Meaning, it's still a binary win condition.
- Find particularly savvy ways to play around the bug - most likely by using broken skills yourself. No, I'm not talking about cheating - instead, you're using skills in a way they probably weren't supposed to be used. One could also say: You backroute the boss fight. :thumbsup:

During my current playthrough of the game, I encountered this bug twice:

- Once with Geshniz in the flying fortress in Broken Valley (lethal Fireball)
- Once with Lord John and Lady Kara in the Hall of Echoes (particularly frustrating, because now you have two opponents at once with this instantly lethal skill)

I've also encountered it previously with Ba'al and Undead Sassan. Though I'm not sure this was during the same game. During those previous attempts, all I could do was lowering the difficulty.

This time, I kept the difficulty at its highest, as I had been playing the entire game, and did some heavy lifting to navigate around the bug:
- I used a charge attack to get close to the boss right at the start, forcing them into melee. Since both lethal skills I mentioned are range skills, your AI opponents are less likely to use them in melee combat (even though there's technically nothing stopping them from doing so, see the next point).
- I then immediately used Splitting Arrows - a skill supposed to shoot arrows at several different opponents at once, but since this game doesn't give you any drawbacks for using ranged skills in melee combat, if you use this skill while standing in front of a single opponent, all the arrows will hit the same target, doing a buttload of damage to them.
- You can summon up to two companions in this game - one is an undead "pet" creature, the other one can be an Undead, a Ghost, or a Demon. Occasionally, the boss happens to hit one of your minions instead of you with their instant-kill attack, and then the skill takes a while to cool down until they can use it again. It's hard to influence what they go for first, though, since your minions move own their own, you can't steer them yourself. Once the lethal skill is in cooldown, you gotta take the boss out as fast as you can. You can still deal with their minions afterwards.
- The game is not turn-based, it's in real time - but there is a pause mode for when things get too hectical. You can also choose skills and select targets in pause mode, and then the commands are executed at the next possible occasion once you release the pause mode again. Thus, I've been using pause mode throughout both of these bugged boss fights. A guaranteed way to draw all the fun out of the game.

Of course, all of this only works if Charge Attack, Splitting Arrows, and a bunch of other high-damage output skills happen to be the ones you've skilled during leveling. Stunning Arrows might also work, I haven't tried; turning invisible with "Embrace of Shadows" doesn't work, I've been told. In short: You need to have trained very specific skills, or this last option of playing around the bug isn't really open to you.

You have the option of unlearning all your skills and re-investing your skill points (by paying the trainer at your Dragon Tower to do it). However, once you're in the Hall of Echoes, where you meet a bunch of the former bosses again in direct succession, there is no going back to the Dragon Tower (at least not while you're in human form, only in the parts where you are a dragon, I believe).

Star Wars Episode I Racer
This game revolves around podracing and was re-released for Steam recently (it's originally from the beginning of the millennium, when Episode I came out, and the CD version was very unstable). I think there was a patch to make the CD version run on Windows 10, too, but just buying it for less than 10 € again on Steam seemed like less of a hassle. It can still occasionally crash, either at the beginning or (worse) at the end of a race - which, in an execution-based game like a racing game, of course is also a binary win condition, because then you have to play and win the race again. But it's comparatively infrequent. And just like with the previous example, you can debate whether a binary win condition arising from a bug qualifies as a design flaw, because at least it was unintentional.

What was definitely not unintentional is the layout of the race track "Abyss", the second track on the last difficulty rank (the Invitational Tournament / "Elite Class" in German).


Throughout the game, there are shortcuts here and there on various race tracks. This is fine and in-flavour: Podracing is described as a very rough sport with a lot of unfair tactics going on. Sebulba is the established champion in the movie because he's constantly cheating, sabotaging his competitors' vehicles both before and during the race. So people taking shortcuts during the race seems generally fitting. And of course, when you do so as well, you can expect to get a considerable advantage from this.

As the game proceeds, the shortcuts on the race tracks become less and less optional to take, because your AI opponents get better and start using the shortcuts themselves, too. As Lemmings players, we would say the backroute becomes part of the intended solution. (Kind of like on the ONML level "No problemming!") But in contrast to NeoLemmix, just knowing where the shortcuts are isn't enough: You need to get the execution right as well, because it's a racing game, and some of these shortcuts are very difficult to access, even when you know exactly where they are. Plus, every race has three laps, so you want to succeed at this several times in a row.

There is a level which I consider on the borderline of what's acceptable, on the third difficulty rank ("Galaxy Class"), called "Sebulba's Legacy" (named after the Sebulba described above): Right before the finish line, there is a steep curve without a wall on the right side, so if you're too fast, you fly off and fall down to a lower layer, from where it takes you quite a while to get back up again. You can still win if you fall down, though, as long as you've been fast enough during the rest of the race to establish a sufficient lead.

With the track "Abyss", this is not the case: Right at the beginning, there is an extremely tight curve in a tunnel with two layers. If you fall to the bottom layer during that curve - or any time later in that tunnel, because the top layer also has a gap and another curve where you can fall down - you're taken on a detour that costs you at last 30-45 seconds. This means that, if you fall down, even if you deliver your best performance ever during the rest of the race, you're still going to fail. Where all the other tracks measure your average level of racing ability across the entire track across all three laps, this one is a complete "do or die". The curve and the top layer of the tunnel form the binary win condition, and all of your other racing skills you've picked up so far don't matter.

Add to that, basically everyone of your opponents, because they're flying on autopilot, manages to stay on the top layer easily. Thus by means of exclusion, you also have to stay on top, or you're pretty much guaranteed to lose.

More than that, you have to be able to pull it off during all three laps of the race. I saw one guy who fell down during the last round and managed to catch up again with the first guy through some later shortcut and a good deal of luck. But I wouldn't bet on it. Anyways, you have to stay on top throughout the entire tunnel for at least two rounds of the race. And there's a bunch of stuff coming after that tunnel, of course, where you can still screw up additionally, like on any other race. I recently had the track favourite pass me by at the last jump before the finish line, when I had finally already managed to stay at the top layer of the tunnel for all three laps of the race. In that sense, it's almost more of a "binary lose condition" (fall to the bottom and you're done immediately), but there's no guarantee you'll win when you manage to suceed. Thus, any time you succeed on a given round, you're already anxiously looking forward to the next round.

I always manage to beat this track in the end - but I've never enjoyed playing it. And I don't know a single player of the game who does. Fortunately, it's the only track in the entire game with such a binary win condition. But that also means it creates a huge spike in difficulty, compared to what the player gets used to throughout the rest of the game (including the races that come after the track "Abyss").

Similar to the Divinity 2 example, there appears to be a Debug mode in which you can set yourself into autopilot, just like the AI drivers, to get through the curve. However, in this case this would feel more like cheating, because you're not using "God mode" to combat a bug, but to combat a conscious game design decision of the developers.

With examples 2 and 3, because both are video games, knowing that these binary win conditions appear at certain fix points of the game is also hugely detrimental to their replay value: Because you always know you have this huge roadblock ahead of you that basically comes down to chance. This divides every repeated playing experience into a "before" and "after". Kind of like what traumatised people report about their lives... :lem-mindblown:
During the "before" stage, you can't really enjoy the game, because you know the binary win condition is still coming, the dreaded thing is still ahead of you.
During the roadblock, you don't enjoy it, for the reasons stated above - you're just all tense the entire time and simply want to get it over with (again).
And afterwards, while you may be relieved about it being over, a good chunk of the game is now already over, as well. Usually the best part (because most developers tend to put more effort into the early parts of a game, while at the end, they're under time pressure to finish up the product and start losing their creativity). But the best part of the game you couldn't enjoy as much as you would have liked to, because at that time you still had the known roadblock ahead of you.



In original Lemmings, the classical example of a binary win condition is the aptly named Mayhem level "All or nothing":

Spoiler
You have to assign the basher correctly, while facing in the required direction, and do so three times in a row, like on the race track "Abyss" in Star Wars Racer. The lemming turns left and right in such rapid succession that this basically amounts to chance in original Lemmings, without all the framestepping and rewinding. You can't even assign skills while the game is paused, like you can in Divinity 2. (At least you can select skills on the panel in the Mac version; in the DOS version, not even that is possible, though in this case, with only Bashers available anyway, this doesn't matter too much.)

In contrast to the "Abyss" race track, though, at least getting this Basher thing right is the only thing that the level requires from you - instead of adding in a bunch of other stuff before throwing you back into the dreaded obstacle again and yet again. ;)

In NeoLemmix
, we rarely have such binary win conditions in terms of execution difficulty. We do however have them in terms of puzzle difficulty.

In particular, this comes up when a certain obscure skill  trick is required, and, similarly to "All or nothing", this trick is the main or even the only thing the level requires:

- If the player happens to know the trick is possible, the level is an auto solve.
- If the player doesn't know the trick is possible, and the level isn't set up in such a way that the player is bound to find out eventually, the level becomes a complete roadblock. Because the knowledge required for the intended solution isn't even part of the player's considerations.

Examples from original Lemmings would famously "I have a cunning plan" and "No added colours or Lemmings".
Spoiler
- You need to be aware that three Builder staircases act like a wall, even though lemmings can walk through single or double Builder staircases easily.
- You need to be aware that Blockers stop being Blockers when they lose the ground under their feet, even though terrain can easily float in the air in Lemmings, instead of "collapsing" when you remove its fundament.
"No added colours or Lemmings" usually gets a pass, because it has a clever solution overall that even makes it the best level in original Lemmings in the eyes of many.
"I have a cunning plan" is the worse offender here, because it's really just about knowing or not knowing the trick. There is an alternative solution, the one that I've been using at a kid. But it basically just requires you to have knowledge of the "No added colours or Lemmings" trick at this earlier level, plus it's much harder to execute:
Spoiler
You need to block right under the hatch with a lemming facing to the right, then with the last lemming turning around during bashing, you mine to free the Blocker (who continues walking to the right since that's the way he came out of the hatch), then build into terrain to stop the Miner and make him turn around as well. This is not only hard because of the tightly-packed crowd at release rate 99, in which you have to spot the last lemming facing to the left to make him the Miner; you also have to stop him quickly, because the terrain the Blocker is standing on is only one of these thin pipes from the Marble tileset, with water / abyss right beneath. Contrast this to "No added colours or Lemmings", where the terrain beneath the Blocker is much thicker, you have fewer lemmings, plus you don't need to stop the Miner anyway, he can just continue all the way through.

In custom packs, I've encountered binary win conditions e.g. on two levels that both used the Blocker-Basher turnaround / cancel trick. Even though I was later told by the level designer that neither of the two levels where I saw somebody else use this trick actually required it, to this day I still can't think of any other solution for it than using this trick.

With a bunch of skills - and a bunch of tricks regarding their combinations - being available by now, binary win conditions also explain the split that we've been observing in the player base for a while now: Meaning between very skilled and very casual players. And this has been reflected by a split in pack difficulty, between a lot of very hard packs (designed by players who know all the tricks) and very easy packs (designed by newcomers), with few packs in the middle or intermediate difficulty category:

Once you know about the tricks, they become self-evident. You start looking for all kinds of affordances in the level landscape where you can employ them.
However, as long as you don't know them, levels requiring such tricks from you as part of their intended solution (and doing a good job at enforcing them, i.e. being backroute-proof) will be complete roadblocks until you read up on the fact that trick X is even possibly in the first place.

As someone who likes inventing solutions revolving around obscure skill tricks and combinations, this is something I should probably take to heart more frequently
- considering how much such binary win conditions frustrate me whenever I encounter them in other games. ;)

I think the main reason I resort to levels based on skill tricks so much is because I suck at hiding things in plain sight. I can of course create "resource-conservation" levels, but such levels are generally open-ended and will usually leave the player with a lot of remaining skills, instead of all skills being accounted for. This is basically not much different from the issues I've been criticising about X-of-everything levels, yet this is what even my own resource-conservation levels often end up looking like.

Meanwhile, some of the most amazing puzzles I've seen are technically just "additive" challenges, meaning all the skills are used in fairly standard ways, not in obscure skill combinations. And yet, when you approach these levels in a standard manner, you always find yourself one skill short, and you can't figure out why, until you do. This is explicitly not a binary win condition ;) - the level just somehow makes you overlook the obvious, but there are many ways you can ultimately arrive at the correct conclusion.

I've tried to bridge the gap between the "trick-aware" and "non-trick-aware" players via the Noisemaker rank in my pack Lemmings World Tour. However, some of the hints instructing the trick where clearly too vague in the beginning. Thus, I probably created a roadblock of a binary win condition as early as level 08 in the pack, "Glide and joy", which I could only remove by spelling out the trick in the pre-level text explicitly.


So it seems like this is something we all occasionally do. ;) Maybe we should try doing it less in our future levels?
#644
Level Design / Re: Defining the classic 10 skills
September 24, 2020, 09:29:01 AM
I think I have to slightly adapt my choice from my previous post regarding the new "Classic 10 skills". Based on the principle "watch what I do, not what I say", I've noticed that a lot of the "classical" levels I designed for my Lemmings 2: The Tribes-inspired pack Lemmings: Hall of Fame feature, if they go beyond the classic 8 at all, Shimmiers and Jumpers, not Walkers and Jumpers.

Thus, my classic 10 skills, as established empirically by my level design, would be:
Jumper, Shimmier, Climber, Floater, Bomber, Blocker, Builder, Basher, Miner, Digger



I believe the reason is that the Shimmier is slightly less broken than the Walker while at the same time adding more design options to a level.

Both the Shimmier and the Jumper can still be (ab-)used to cancel other skills, especially destructive skills mid-swipe.

They are however much more situational if you want to use them to turn a lemming around:
- A Shimmier needs to land on a ledge leading towards a wall (assuming there isn't one already on the ground where he was walking before, because then he would turn around anyway)
- A Jumper needs to jump into a wall (again, assuming it doesn't touch the ground, because such a wall would make him turn around no matter what)

In other words, both the Shimmier and the Jumper still require some sort of wall, as any other lemmings do, to turn around. The Walker is the only skill that gives lemmings the option of turning around on a whim, out of thin air. Plus, Walkers can free Blockers, which neither Shimmiers nor Jumpers can. And freeing Blockers in creative ways is often one of the main challenges of highly advanced puzzles.
#645
You clearly pay much more attention to designing the visual details of levels than I do. :thumbsup: I never would have had the patience to e.g. place all those small green pieces of grass in the dirt level "Dead Lems Society". But it looks awesome! Certainly time worth putting in!

As I said in my previous post here, of course I'd be interested in playtesting this pack once it's complete. Note that the only other pack I've playtested so far was Lemmings United... and I didn't get beyond the first rank, so my testing probably wasn't all too helpful for IchoTolot (but at least I've found some backroutes on the first rank, so better than nothing :thumbsup: ). Maybe I was a little harsh on myself back then for being frustrated that I couldn't test more of the pack - little did I know that I was part of a group of players testing the most difficult pack in history.

So I hope this one is going to turn out at least slightly easier than United. If it's as difficult as NepsterLems, that will already be tough, but I've started making progress into the final ranks of that pack, so I probably wouldn't be completely lost.

QuoteAnd I'm thinking of increasing the total levels from 100 to 120.
Maybe I'll left 5 main rank as is and add a bonus rank consisting of 20 levels.
And they will all features 20th new skills that will be implemented later.

Ah yeah, same as with Lemmings Hall of Fame for me. ;) So that means it's still going to be a while until the first test version is available, I assume.

120 levels sounds completely fine to me - just as long as the original. Everything beyond that can become quite tedious, especially if the average difficulty of the levels is very high.

NepsterLems only has 111 leves, and it already feels very long because the average player needs to spend so much time on every single leve
l.

My first own pack, Paralems, may have had 150 levels, but it's an absolute joke with regards to difficulty. The second pack, Pit Lems, I made deliberately shorter (100 levels only), because it was intended to be more puzzling.
Then of course I made Lemmicks (170 levels) and Lemmings World Tour (320 levels), revealing that I'm a total hypocrite when advocating for shorter level packs. :evil:
The reason those packs became so long was because of the spectrum I wanted to cover (large choice of gimmicks and a large variety of geographical locations / song titles, respectively). The puzzle difficulty of Lemmicks was also rather accidental; I was expecting the gimmicks to make the pack more whacky and weird, like Paralems. And with Lemmings World Tour, the puzzle challenge always came second to music and aesthetics (which one player also criticised).

Most level designers tend to prioritise the puzzle challenge over everything else ("top-down" level design). And with you having solved United, I assume this is the case for this pack as well. ;)
Even though these levels look astonishingly pretty, so maybe terrain shape and visuals indeed come first for you, and you develop the solution based on that ("bottom-up" level design)?



It's quite fascinating what makes a level pretty when its shape is still an "abstract" one, rather than depicting anything specific or "realistic", as e.g. Colorful Arty likes to do in his levels (where he e.g. painted a train, a toad, a robot etc. with level tiles). Those levels, just like my geography levels, can be judged in aesthetics based on their degree of realism - how accurately they portray what they set out to depict.

In case of abstract level shapes, however, "pretty" seems to arise more from simply a nice mixture of colours, and large chunks of terrain filling out the screen in a satisfying manner.