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Topics - LemSteven

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1
Tech & Research / Breaking Down the Classic 5 100% Solution
« on: May 13, 2017, 04:49:38 PM »
A little over a year ago, I achieved a 100% solution to Classic 5, thereby confirming that 100% is possible on all levels in Lemmings 2.  In this post, I'm going to break down the mechanics and the logic I used to achieve that solution.  I'll warn everyone that this post will be a bit long-winded, but it really shows how precise knowledge of the game's mechanics can help immensely with crowd control.

Although the mechanics in this case are specific to Lemmings 2, many of the methods described below can easily be adapted for Lemmings/ONML mechanics, as well.


The key to saving 100% on Classic 5 is to avoid the blocker/bomber combination for crowd control.  Ordinarily, this would result in several lemmings pacing back and forth in the digger's hole, and approximately half of them would be facing left when he finishes, resulting in their deaths.  Therefore to have a shot at 100%, I needed to minimize the number of lemmings pacing back and forth in the digger’s hole by managing the crowd efficiently.

I began by studying the characteristics of the floor on which the digger is placed.  This area has a horizontal length of 7 blocks, and there are 16 pixels to a block, so the area is 16*7=112 pixels wide.  The lemmings can either be walking right or left at each of these pixels, for a total of 224 possible positions.  (Note: Unlike in Lemmings/ONML, a Lemming does NOT move one pixel into the wall upon turning around in L2.)

For simplicity, I will notate a lemming’s position in this area with a number from 1 to 112, starting from the far right, followed by either an L or R to indicate which direction the lemming is heading.  So a lemming who just turned around at the right wall would be notated as 1L, and a lemming who just turned around at the left wall will be notated as 112R.

Now consider the following Lemmings 2 mechanics:
  • A walker advances one pixel every frame.
  • The digger will dig a 9-pixel wide hole.
  • The optimal placement for the digger is at position 5R, which will place the hole at pixels 1-9.  If the digger is placed any farther right, he will hit steel and abort.
  • The digger digs down one pixel every eight frames.  Since the floor is 16 pixels thick, he will take 16*8=128 frames to finish.
  • After the digger removes five rows of terrain, the lemmings can no longer walk out of his hole.
  • When dropping into the digger's hole, the number of frames a lemming spends falling can be expressed by FLOOR((X-1)/3), where X is the depth of the hole in pixels and X > 0.
Based on the above information, I determined that a lemming at position 31R when the digger is assigned will just reach position 10L as the digger removes his fifth pixel.  Any right-facing lemmings to the left of 31L will accumulate in the digger's hole, which is what we're trying to avoid.  On the other end, a lemming at position 100L when the digger is assigned will reach position 10R 115 frames later.  He will then spend four frames falling (the digger will have gone down 14 pixels) and nine frames walking across the digger's hole, reaching position 1R at the exact moment the digger finishes.

Therefore all of the lemmings between positions 31R and 100L when the digger is assigned will be saved (a total of 131 out of 224 possible positions).  Any lemmings who are outside of this range will have approximately a 50-50 chance of being saved, depending on which way they are facing when the digger finishes.

The rest of the solution focused on getting as many lemmings as possible bunched up into a group no more than 131 pixels wide.  The entrance area is 5 blocks (80 pixels) wide (screenshot b), which means initially the crowd will be spread out across 160 possible positions.  Since 160 is greater than 131, I needed to find a way to compress them further.  In Lemmings/ONML, this could be done using the release rate, but that is not an option in Lemmings 2.  I therefore focused my attention on the five skill assignments that are required to get from the entrance to the staging area at the bottom of the level.

I considered doing a computer simulation to map out how each skill assignment would alter the spacing of the lemmings, but I ended up getting extremely lucky and found a solution fairly quickly through trial and error.  The initial basher resulted in several lemmings turning around in the basher's tunnel and separating from the crowd, but I managed to get most of them to rejoin the crowd later on.  The first basher also had the side benefit of reducing the size of the rest of the crowd from ten blocks to eight and a half blocks, at which point I was able to get them under the 131 pixel limit by assigning floaters to the front four lemmings, thus slowing them down.

In the end, only two stragglers failed to rejoin the crowd.  One of them was used to do the work on the right side of the level, but the other one ended up pacing back and forth in the final digger's tunnel.  Fortunately, through careful skill placement and a bit of luck, I was able to get him facing right when the digger finished.  It was satisfaction of the moment that I realized that all sixty lemmings were heading toward the exit that made all the hours of hard work worthwhile.

2
Challenges / Maximum Lemmings Saved Records
« on: June 26, 2011, 07:19:28 AM »
I've decided to compile all of the maximum lemmings saved records for the various Lemmings games.  I'm hoping to create a definitive source for all of the lemmings saved records we have established on the forums over the past several years.  Like in Clam Spammer's glitch thread, there will be some variability among the various ports.  If anyone has information on any of the other ports, feel free to contribute below and I'll add it in this post.

Unless an individual game mentions that glitch results are noted separately, assume any solution might involve glitches.

DOS Lemmings
(100% unless noted; glitch results noted separately)

Fun 3: 47/50
Fun 6: 48/50
Fun 18: 65/70
Tricky 15: 7/10
Tricky 16: 46/50
Tricky 17: 48/50
Tricky 18: 9/10
Tricky 23: 79/80
Taxing 6: 50/50 (without glitches: 46/50)
Taxing 7: 79/80
Taxing 19: 65/70
Taxing 27: 77/80
Taxing 28: 70/80 (without glitches: 65/80)
Mayhem 2: 80/80 (without glitches: 79/80)
Mayhem 5: 76/80
Mayhem 10: 73/75 (without glitches: 72/75)
Mayhem 19: 48/50 (without glitches: 47/50)
Mayhem 26: 76/80 (without glitches: 75/80)
Mayhem 29: 78/80 (without glitches: 76/80)

GameBoy Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Fun 3: 9/14
Fun 6: 12/14
Fun 23: 13/14
Tricky 1: 13/14
Tricky 3: 13/14
Tricky 6: 12/14
Tricky 13: 12/14
Tricky 17: 9/10
Tricky 18: 13/14
Tricky 19: 2/14
Tricky 25: 13/14
Taxing 7: 13/14
Taxing 10: 13/14
Taxing 11: 10/14
Taxing 20: 13/14
Taxing 21: 12/14
Mayhem 2: 13/14
Mayhem 13: 13/14
Mayhem 15: 11/14
Mayhem 18: 13/14
Mayhem 20: 13/14
Mayhem 25: 12/14

Genesis Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Fun 3: 47/50
Fun 6: 48/50
Fun 18: 65/70
Tricky 15: 7/10
Tricky 16: 46/50
Tricky 17: 48/50
Tricky 18: 9/10
Tricky 21: 49/50
Tricky 23: 98/100
Taxing 13: 49/50
Taxing 14: 49/50
Taxing 17: 48/50
Taxing 19: 65/70
Taxing 25: 79/80
Mayhem 5: 76/80
Mayhem 14: 48/50
Mayhem 19: 47/50 (48/50 pending confirmation)
Mayhem 29: 84/100
Present 2: 45/50
Present 7: 99/100
Present 16: 98/100
Sunsoft 6: 54/60
Sunsoft 22: 49/50
Sunsoft 24: 49/50
Sunsoft 27: 1/4

Macintosh Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Fun 3: 47/50
Fun 6: 48/50
Fun 18: 65/70
Tricky 15: 6/10
Tricky 16: 45/50
Tricky 17: 48/50
Tricky 18: 9/10
Tricky 23: 76/80
Taxing 6: 49/50
Taxing 7: 79/80
Taxing 19: 65/70
Taxing 27: 77/80
Taxing 28: 70/80
Mayhem 2: 79/80 (100% "should work" but not confirmed yet)
Mayhem 5: 76/80
Mayhem 10: 70/75 (improvable)
Mayhem 19: 47/50 (possibly 48/50 pending testing)
Mayhem 26: 72/80
Mayhem 29: 75/80 (improvable)

Master System Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Fun 3: 17/20
Fun 6: 18/20
Fun 18: 15/20
Tricky 15: 15/20
Tricky 17: 18/20
Taxing 19: 15/20
Taxing 27: 19/20
Taxing 28: 17/20
Mayhem 19: 13/20
Mayhem 26: 10/20

SNES Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Fun 3: 47/50
Fun 6: 48/50
Fun 18: 65/70
Tricky 15: 7/10
Tricky 16: 46/50
Tricky 17: 48/50
Tricky 18: 9/10
Tricky 23: 99/100
Taxing 7: 99/100
Taxing 19: 65/70
Taxing 27: 97/100
Taxing 28: 90/100
Mayhem 5: 76/80
Mayhem 10: 73/75
Mayhem 19: 48/50
Mayhem 26: 95/100
Mayhem 29: 97/100
Sunsoft 1: 1/4

NES Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Fun 3: 9/14
Fun 6: 12/14
Tricky 1: 13/14
Tricky 3: 13/14
Tricky 6: 12/14
Tricky 13: 12/14
Tricky 17: 9/10
Tricky 18: 13/14
Tricky 19: 2/14
Tricky 25: 13/14
Taxing 7: 13/14
Taxing 9: 12/14
Taxing 10: 13/14
Taxing 11: 10/14
Taxing 20: 13/14
Taxing 21: 12/14
Mayhem 1: 13/14
Mayhem 2: 13/14
Mayhem 3: 11/12
Mayhem 13: 12/14
Mayhem 15: 11/14
Mayhem 18: 13/14
Mayhem 25: 12/14

Oh No! More Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Crazy 3: 48/50
Crazy 10: 79/80
Crazy 11: 40/80
Crazy 14: 48/50
Wild 5: 77/80
Wild 13: 77/80
Wild 15: 48/50
Wild 18: 78/80
Wicked 1: 59/60
Wicked 4: 49/50
Wicked 7: 76/80
Wicked 8: 46/50
Wicked 10: 49/50
Wicked 12: 79/80
Wicked 15: 48/50
Wicked 16: 5/6
Havoc 10: 17/21
Havoc 20: 53/60

Holiday Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Flurry 16: 49/50
Blitz 12: 79/80
Blitz 15: 10/15
Blitz 16: 48/50
Frost 6: 69/70
Frost 14: 45/50
Hail 2: 76/80
Hail 6: 46/80

Covox Lemmings
(100% unless noted)

Tricky 2: 20/21

The Official Lemmings Companion
(100% unless noted)

Fun 2: 79/80
Tricky 2: 73/80
Taxing 4: 79/80
Mayhem 3: 78/80

Lemmings 2: The Tribes (DOS)

All 100%

Lemmings 3D (PC)

Fun
1: 79/80          [2: 79/80        3: 29/30          4: 19/20          5: 23/30         
6: 36/40          7: 5/6          8: 38/40          9: 75/80          10: 20/20         
11: 71/80          12: 74/80          13: 20/40          14: 74/80          15: 36/40         
16: 76/80          17: 10/10          18: 70/80          19: 78/80          20: 26/30         

Tricky
21: 8/10          22: 38/40          23: 29/30          24: 27/30          25: 76/80         
26: 18/25          27: 36/40          28: 79/80          29: 36/40          30: 34/40         
31: 36/50          32: 74/80          33: 34/40          34: 76/80          35: 76/80         
36: 37/40          37: 35/40          38: 70/80          39: 57/60          40: 55/60         

Taxing
41: 74/80          42: 73/80          43: 72/80          44: 79/80          45: 74/80
46: 37/40          47: 75/80          48: 72/80          49: 74/80          50: 78/80         
51: 77/80          52: 80/80          53: 77/80          54: 75/80          55: 20/20         
56: 48/50          57: 40/40          58: 69/80          59: 80/80          60: 39/40         

Mayhem
61: 78/80          62: 55/60          63: 77/80          64: 18/20          65: 17/20         
66: 73/80          67: 78/80          68: 38/40          69: 78/80          70: 76/80         
71: 77/80          72: 35/40          73: 63/80          74: 38/40          75: 40/40         
76: 34/40          77: 19/20          78: 30/30          79: 79/80          80: 37/40         

Lemmings Revolution
(100% unless noted)

1-3: 17/20
2-1: 26/30
3-2: 17/20
3-3: 18/20
3-5: 96/100
6-5: 8/10
7-6: 96/100
8-4: 46/50
10-12: 19/20
11-7: 49/50
11-10: 57/60
12-9: 99/100

3
Challenges / What levels could be beaten in under one minute?
« on: June 20, 2009, 06:35:58 AM »
Inspired by the "One of each skill" thread, I've decided to start a similar thread.  This time, we are looking for the levels that are beatable in under one minute.

Here's the full list of what we have so far:

Lemmings
Fun -- 1-13, 16, 17, 18, 20, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30
Tricky -- 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9-13, 15-28
Taxing -- 2-6, 9, 10, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24, 26, 27, 29, 30
Mayhem -- 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10-16, 18, 20, 24, 25, 27

ONML
Tame -- All
Crazy -- 1, 2, 3, 5, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 19, 20
Wild -- 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11, 12, 17, 18, 19, 20
Wicked -- 1, 3-8, 13, 14, 16-20
Havoc -- 6, 7, 10, 12, 14-19

Holiday Lemmings
Frost:  2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16
Hail:  2, 4, 5, 6, 15, 16
Flurry:  1-5, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 16
Blitz:  6, 7, 8, 10, 14, 16

4
Challenges / Oh No! More Challenges!
« on: May 25, 2009, 04:14:46 AM »
Mod Edit: This is the thread where you can submit challenges for individual levels. Have fun!

Restarting the challenge thread...

I've got a new one.  It's nowhere near as difficult as Clam Spammer's recent Tricky 28 challenge (which is insane even if you do know the trick involved), but it's still not a walk in the park, either:

Taxing 7 -- Save 97% (the minimum) using no more than 5 builders.  The level gives you six, so you'll have to find a way to save one of them.

5
Lemmings Main / Lemmings 3D Records
« on: May 15, 2009, 04:27:46 AM »
I don't know how many people here have/play Lemmings 3D anymore, but I figured I might as well post my best scores.  Feel free to try and beat them if you think you've found a better solution.

(B) = Backroute

Fun
1 -- Take a Dive:  79/80
2 -- That's Right:  79/80
3 -- The Bean Machine:  29/30
4 -- It's A Run Around:  19/20
5 -- Bounce Bounce:  23/30
6 -- It's A Blast:  36/40
7 -- Candyland Climber:  5/6
8 -- Lemmings Inside:  38/40 (B)
9 -- A Short Cut Through the Forest:  75/80
10 -- Castle Lemalot:  18/20
11 -- It's A Classic:  71/80
12 -- Alpine Assault Course:  74/80
13 -- Tower of Stone:  20/40
14 -- Slippery Maze:  72/80
15 -- The M-A-Z-E:  36/40
16 -- Down The Middle We Go!:  76/80
17 -- Hole In Ten:  10/10
18 -- Corkscrew Digger:  67/80 (Probably beatable)
19 -- Attack Of The Fifty Ft Lemmings:  70/80
20 -- Alilemm's:  26/30

Tricky
21 -- Jelly Climber:  8/10
22 -- Which Exit ?:  38/40
23 -- This Is The Army:  29/30
24 -- Fore!:  27/30
25 -- Breakout:  76/80
26 -- Lemmhanger:  18/20
27 -- Follow The Yellow Brick Road:  33/40
28 -- All Around The Watchtower:  78/80
29 -- Land Ahoy:  34/40
30 -- Tooten Lemming:  33/40
31 -- A Head Above The Rest:  31/40
32 -- Dot To Dot:  74/80 (B)
33 -- Shadow Maze:  34/40
34 -- Oh No! More Pyramids!:  76/80
35 -- Chocolate Drop:  75/80 (B)
36 -- Lemlab:  37/40
37 -- Garden Maze:  35/40
38 -- Play Time:  70/80
39 -- Stilt Walkers:  56/60
40 -- King Coder's Tomb:  55/60

Taxing
41 -- Spaghetti Junction:  74/80
42 -- Picky Platform:  73/80 (B)
43 -- Let The Race Begin:  72/80
44 -- Poles Apart:  79/80
45 -- 3D - A Lemming Odyssey:  69/80
46 -- Ricochet:  36/40
47 -- If The Timing Is Right!:  75/80
48 -- Rescue Team:  71/80
49 -- Which Trampoline:  74/80
50 -- It's The Name Of The Game:  77/80
51 -- Chaos Maze:  75/80 (77/80 may be possible via another route; I haven't checked)
52 -- Team Work:  79/80
53 -- Motherboard:  77/80
54 -- Away Team:  75/80
55 -- Birthday Cake:  20/20
56 -- The Arena:  48/50
57 -- T Minus Five And Counting:  40/40 (B)
58 -- Snake:  55/80
59 -- Lemmtris:  80/80
60 -- Death Slide:  39/40 (B)

Mayhem
61 -- The Five Arches:  38/40
62 -- Brechin's Staircase:  55/60
63 -- Tower Of Lemlab:  77/80 (B)
64 -- Ski Jump:  17/20
65 -- The Prisoner:  17/20
66 -- Family Tree:  70/80  Edit: 73/80!
67 -- Driving Range:  77/80 (B)
68 -- Five Towers:  38/40
69 -- Over The Top:  78/80
70 -- The Hanger:  75/80 (Hint: A 68 release rate is your friend on this one!)
71 -- Across The Network:  77/80 (B)
72 -- Raiders Of The Lost Lemming:  33/40
73 -- The Catacombs:  63/80
74 -- Jelly Belly Islands:  38/40
75 -- Hole In One, Two, Three!:  40/40
76 -- Fun Fair:  34/40
77 -- Critical Path:  19/20
78 -- Castle Peralus:  30/30 (B)
79 -- Tuther Circus Level:  79/80
80 -- Final Maze:  37/40 (B)

A couple of these scores (e.g. Fun 8) take advantage of the fact that you can begin a bridge immediately after deflecting off of a turner (without walking to the beginning of the next block).  This is difficult to pull off, but possible.

6
Lemmings Main / Weird glitch in Lemmings Revolution
« on: November 24, 2005, 05:53:28 AM »
I mentioned in the Challenge thread a few days ago that I am playing through Lemmings Revolution and recording my high scores, so I can post them later on. &#A0;Anyway, while playing the game tonight, I have noticed a very weird glitch.

Some of you may already know that if you give the lemming the Bomber skill, then make him do something else right before he explodes, he will carry on with his new task instead of exploding. &#A0;I frequently remove blockers using this technique. &#A0;Tonight, I discovered that the same principle works even if the lemming is climbing. &#A0;I gave a lemming the Bomber skill just before he started climbing a wall, and when the countdown reached zero, I made him a Basher. &#A0;Instead of exploding, the lemming began bashing through the wall that he was previously climbing.

Later on, I tried to use the same techinque on another level, but it didn't work -- the game wouldn't let me assign the Basher skill! &#A0;:o &#A0;After experimenting a little bit, I discovered that this trick works only if the lemming was heading right to begin with. &#A0;It doesn't work if he lemming was heading left. :-?

It seems weird to me that the success in executing this particular trick depends on the direction in which the lemming is heading. &#A0;I have run across several glitches in Lemmings Revolution now, but this one is the weirdest one yet.

7
General Discussion / School's starting again!
« on: August 14, 2005, 02:35:18 AM »
Well, here we go again - the summer is almost over.  I go back to school on August 22, a week from Monday.  I'm going into my second year of college, and I'll be living on campus, away from my Lemmings games. :-(

Fortunately, the campus is only about an hour away from my house, so I'll be able to drive home on weekends.  Also, I have high-speed internet access on campus, so I'll still be able to post here.  Hopefully the workload won't be like last spring, when I was so busy that I didn't even have time to visit the forums.

8
Challenges / Lemmings Challenges
« on: June 01, 2005, 03:41:20 AM »
I\ve recently discovered a few ]challenge solutions^ to various Lemmings levels. Some of these solutions involve saving more lemmings than what was previously thought possible with the given skills, while others involve passing the level with fewer skills than what is given. Please note that some of these solutions take advantage of glitches in the PC game. &#A0;This means that they may not work in other versions. &#A0;Here are a few to get started with:

Lemmings
Fun 6 ` A task for blockers and bombers: Save 90% (or more) using only 1 bomber and 3 blockers (Thanks to Insane Steve for finding this one).
Fun 8 ` Not as complicated as it looks: Save 100% without using any bridges.
Fun 10 ` Smile if you love lemmings: Save 100% using only 2 miners and 2 diggers. Fun 12 ` Patience: Save 100% without using any bridges.
The ]We all fall down^ levels: Pass the level using only 1/4 of the diggers given.
Tricky 23 ` From the boundary line: Save 91% (73/80).
Taxing 6 ` Compression method 1: Save 100%.

ONML
Crazy 8 ` KEEP ON TRUCKING: Save 100%.
Wicked 6 ` PoP TiL\ YoU DrOp: Save 98% (79/80).
Havoc 4 ` The race against cliches: Complete the level using just 1 of the 20 climbers.
Havoc 16 ` Scaling the Heights: Save 100%.

I\ll add more later. &#A0;If anybody wants to add some more challenges, please do!

9
Lemmings Main / Lemmings Level Discussion
« on: May 07, 2005, 04:00:50 AM »
Does anybody have any new backroutes or high scores on a Lemmings level that the rest of us don't know about?  If so, please post here!  Also post here if you just want to talk about a particular level.

Note:  Please do not use this thread to discuss fan-made levels; the proper place to do that is in the Level Designing section of the forum.

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