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Messages - Ste Woz Ere

#46
L2Player / Re: Lemmings 2 Data Formats
January 02, 2022, 01:01:21 AM
A Lemmings 2 clone? Yes please :thumbsup:

Even better if it (eventually) has player aids - while I managed fine using DOSBox with savestates, having NL-type stuff like rewinds, framestepping etc. would be even better. (might even make my L2 level pack a bit more palatable :P)
#47
The winter solstice has recently passed, and as originally planned/hoped for, I have managed to complete the final tribe!
Like the previous two tribes, it came together really well with some neat skill combos and puzzles (despite losing a cool skier trick on the final level due to it causing weird graphical bugs and random crashes). Possibly not as hard as many of the other tribes, but I'm really happy with how it's turned out.

This won't be the final release, as they're bound to be full of backroutes and testing/feedback would be very welcome in order to get rid of them. I'm also planning a full video playthrough when the final release is ready.

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Version 13.0 has been released
====================

Polar - tribe is now complete.

All levels that weren't using their full size are now doing so, with extra scenery (L1-style).*

Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - replaced the newly-added block with metal. (just to ensure it can't be glitched)
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - reworked the middle trapdoor again, removed a few skills and 1 min.
Shadow 9 (Mission: Impassable) - lengthened the thin shaft that the rock climber uses to reach the sewers.
Space 7 (JMC Mining Complex) - closed the mine shaft, added a few skills. (I realised that one bit of the puzzle could be bypassed, and I like this new solution better)

* Dunno how it got like this, it just kinda happened as I went along. As there was only a handful of early levels that were not using all the available room, I decided to bring those into line. I also like detailing stuff. None of the actual play areas are changed, and it's a nod to the original L1 too.
#48
And the missing third is done. This was always one of my favourite tribes, but the original game didn't really do it justice IMO. QFK2 righted that, and here's my attempt at doing the same.  Space glue was awesome...I know the builder combo is OP but it gave me a lot of ideas and it led to some great combos with other skills. Jetpacks are a bit awkward but I found them to be quite useful for little things as well as the odd bigger thing. (always with plenty of room and spares like with other hard-to-execute skills)

Anyhow, one more tribe to go and quite a fitting one for the time of year. (we even had snow last week)

====================
Version 12.0 has been released
====================

Space - tribe is now complete.

Egyptian 6 (Wade in the Water) - shortened the containment area for the right-side trapdoor. (it's not as deep now, which fixes a backroute). I also forgot to include this one in the last update. (doh)
#49
Great to hear from you again, and some great feedback too - many fixes to make:

Spoiler


Classic 3 - this one is meant to be tight, but with 3 floaters it's not as tight as it was on the video.
Classic 5 - There is an easier solution for the final bit, but requires a little more setup.
Classic 6 - The 2nd death is meant to be in the water, looks like I need to remove a builder. Feels a bit too precise though, so I might alter it again before the end.
Classic 7 - Nice solution, but it was a backroute like you suspected. I'll have to change it because of the threat posed by a no-death solution.
Classic 8 - I did not know about the fire jets, I was as surprised as you were when they built straight through. The level title comes from Doom 2, and the trick needed in this one comes from the original L1. (a whole level was dedicated to it there, then it was used again a few levels later)
Classic 9 - Sometimes I can miss obvious things like that...a bit of metal should sort it though. (and you were correct, the aim is to use the athlete at both ends)
Classic 10 - Part of the problem you had here was that you used a savegame with 60 lemmings. The level is set up for 51 lemmings (becoming 50 when the first is blown up), hence why there are 10 climbers/floaters (only 5 lemmings per trapdoor instead of 6). Some parts of your solution made more sense than mine though, so I'll change some skills around to support it.
Medieval 2 - I only added that hill for scenery, looks like it'll have to go again.
Medieval 3 - Ugh, how the hell did that get there? That looks like a mess left behind after the last update, luckily it exposed another flaw...namely having too many stackers/miners. The level is designed to showcase various roller tricks, when cleaned up it should be fine.
Medieval 4 - Another backroute, some metal should sort it though.
Medieval 6 - I actually forgot that trapdoor was there...I put it there so all 60 didn't have to use the catapult, I guess I can move it closer to the dungeon.
Medieval 7 - Building up a bit higher would've removed the need for that attempted save with the archer.
Medieval 8 - Didn't think the middle trapdoor could rescue themselves...needs sorting.
Medieval 9 - The reason it appears repetitive is because you used precision stacking on each floor (which I would never ask for), without that it's a number of different solutions for turning round on each floor.
Medieval 10 - This is one of two where the time limit is anywhere close, my PB is something like 2½ mins left. You're probably right about the savestate thing, these 10-trapdoor levels do remind me a bit of the larger L3/QFK3 levels, which I would never attempt without savestates. (btw this is the one I'm least happy with, I need to think of some way of speeding it up without breaking the main principle)
Egyptian 2 - You did indeed manage to cheese it. (and missed out on a great puzzle, as a result)
Egyptian 3 - This one was originally more complex (using carpet/shimmy trickery to help stomp down pillars), but dropped all that to focus on the awesome main puzzle.
Egyptian 6 - The basher stuff wasn't intended, the correct way is to fill the other pool of water and bash onto that.
Egyptian 7 - The only thing you missed was an easier way to do the lower glue bridge (no need to pull off that difficult carpet move).
Egyptian 8 - Silly mistake from me to leave that open, esp. given that one of the puzzles is the very same thing.
Egyptian 9 - Couldn't have seen that coming off a sand pourer. The solution? Remove all sand pourers! (I was only using them to turn round, easy to compensate for)
Egyptian 10 - You actually had the correct solution at one point (stomper+glue), but you didn't have another stomper left to finish it off. (I know very little about L2 glitches, so I wouldn't have thought of the basher trick you used instead)


I've currently got around a third of Space to go, so here's a interim update with all the fixes:

====================
Version 11.1 has been released
====================


Highland 1 (Base Camp) - re-set the correct size, so it isn't a garbled mess. (ouch)
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - added 1 twister and removed 2 mortars, reverting the previous change. (alternative solutions will always be a part of these epic finales, and I was impressed with the one in the video)
Classic 6 (Chambers of Aquatia) - removed 1 builder and 1 digger.
Classic 7 (Stepping Up and Down) - extended a block to shorten the area just above the exit.
Classic 8 (Tricks & Traps) - added a block between the fire jets in the exit area.
Classic 9 (Split at the Hill) - added metal to the left block, moved metal up the right block, removed 5 builders.
Classic 10 (Random Lemming Pun) - removed 5 floaters and 2 miners, reverted the previous change to the middle trapdoor.
Medieval 2 (Finishing the Arc) - removed the small hill, added metal to the starting ledges.
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - removed the mess from the last update (ugh), slightly altered the exit area, reduced stackers to 2 and miners to 1.
Medieval 4 (Hack & Slash) - added metal to the starting areas.
Medieval 6 (Dungeon & Dragon) - moved the forgotten trapdoor to the grass area just outside the dungeon.
Medieval 8 (Siege Engine Graveyard) - extended the middle trapdoor tunnel area, moved the catapult back.
Egyptian 2 (Stomp Like an Egyptian) - added metal to the base of the start pillars.
Egyptian 3 (Tomb of Ikea) - shortened the ceiling table.
Egyptian 8 (The Chambers of Cain) - reworked the gap between trapdoor and exit. (so it can't be cheesed)
Egyptian 9 (The Plunger's Tomb) - removed all sand pourers (so it can't be cheesed), slightly reworked some areas to compensate.
#50
Well, that was quick. I thought this tribe would take longer due to the awkward nature of the terrain, but it actually fitted together quite nicely (the tiling woes that I faced in Outdoor never really materialised here). The skillset isn't bad either - wings are ok when you get used to it (better than the other flying skills IMO), spears turned out more useful than I thought (despite not being able to chain them), and stacks are always handy.

====================
Version 11.0 has been released
====================

Cavelem - tribe is now complete.

Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - removed the immediate danger from the leftmost trapdoor. Also swapped them around so the one by the lake goes first. (these should allow you to get cracking on the exit section immediately)
#51
Three quarters down, one to go.  This was definitely my favourite tribe for the actual level design, as I love it's night-time city setting. Bit of an odd skill set (explosions aren't the easiest way to tunnel) and perhaps not enough use of "the combo", but that does mean I used all aspects of the tribe a bit more. (and I'm particularly pleased with some of the filler tricks)

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Version 10.0 has been released
====================

Shadow- tribe is now complete.
#52
Just in time for Halloween, the scariest tribe arrives (at least in vanilla it is). I really enjoyed playing with this skill set, there's a lot can be done with it (except for the pole vault ofc, which can do precisely 2 things). Throw in some steam*, trampolines and one of my best level ideas and you have this:

* We all have nightmares of that silly opening level from vanilla, but nothing like that here. Instead, they are puzzles, obstacles or a means to gain height.

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Version 9.0 has been released
====================

Sports - tribe is now complete.

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - moved the diamond down so it can be roped into. (it should've been moved earlier)
Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - slightly lengthened the start area, +2 miners, -1 platformer, -1 stacker.
Beach 3 (Everybody Do the Flop!) - removed a test trapdoor that was preventing the level from being completed. (doh)

In addition, I've gone through all of the tribes and altered the release rates...as most levels were left at the default value.
#53
Tech & Research / Re: Lemmings 2 glitches
October 27, 2021, 04:53:33 PM
Another rock climber glitch - the dangling animation disappears when a steam valve is on the level. (the actual steam vents are fine)

(doesn't affect gameplay as you can still click the lemming, but it has put me off using rock climber -> shimmier combos on the 1 Sports level that has all three things)
#54
Tech & Research / Re: Lemmings 2 glitches
October 11, 2021, 09:11:16 PM
I wonder if this one is related, but here's a fun fact that I've just discovered:

Q. What is the one thing that regular climbers can get over but rock climbers cannot?

Spoiler
A. Vertical arrows in the ground.

(whether that's a good or bad thing I dunno, we'll see how the Sports tribe develops with it)
#55
It's been a surprisingly sunny autumn so far, which goes nicely with the next tribe.  Having the platformer again* made for some nice combos, and I like making useless skills useful. Also did some interesting feats of architecture, given the odd terrain shapes and lack of 45° slopes (thankfully the sculpting was nowhere near as annoying as Outdoor, as the tiles align much better...though I'm not looking forward to sculpting Cavelem)

* apologies builder fans, but I'm just finding the platformer more useful overall atm. Once I'm done with the next tribe though, the builders will come out in force.

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Version 8.0 has been released
====================

Beach - tribe is now complete.

Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - altered the height of 2 buildings, removed 1 twister, added 2 mortars. (twist-through-the-ceiling was my first QFK2 backroute, but I can't seem to force it here...instead the 2nd twister was used for backroutes)
Circus 5-6 - swapped places.
Circus 7-9 - moved 9 forward two places, pushing 7 & 8 back one.


#56
And so we reach the halfway point...and not for the first time I have my doubts about the way it's progressing. I know my levels are somewhat bigger than QFK2's with more to do in each one, and that's kinda how I like them...but I also get the impression that sort of design isn't popular. My design philosophy is also different, favouring strong (often unusual) themes (along with the odd gimmick) and designing around those (unless I have a strong puzzle idea).

What do people think - should they be smaller? Fewer skills? Terrain favouring execution rather than theme? Or is it better to be a stark contrast to QFK2 but with more bits that could go wrong?

(sorry for rambling on, it's what goes on in a level designer's head sometimes. Doesn't help that the twister was in the first 2 tribes though...leading to a bad first impression on the execution side)

Anyway, onto the release...this tribe took a bit longer than the others (partly due to RL) but it had some cool bits and another really good aerial combo. The accidental discovery of a new feature late on didn't help matters (cue the rush to incorporate it into a few levels), but it's finally done:

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Version 7.0 has been released
====================

Outdoor - tribe is now complete.

Medieval 3 (Acrobatic Outlaw) - added 1 stacker. (I realised there wasn't enough redundancy built in)
#57
Nicely done. Next tribe is going quite slowly, so plenty of time to catch up a bit.

Spoiler

Circus 2 - there is a quicker way to do it.
Circus 3 - definitely a backroute, albeit a very clever one.
Circus 4 - I've seen a few backroutes around the exit, but they all have a bit too much precision. (it's kinda hard to prevent them though)
Circus 5 - I kinda like both routes, but the alternative one (which you did) does leave the cannon bit until last, which is a no-no unless you have huge amounts of time. Not sure if I should block one off or not.
Circus 6 - ballooning over the pit is a lot easier than up through a laser hole ;) (and still not the intended route - but again, as you mentioned earlier, these levels are more open-ended)
Circus 7 - one of my favourite puzzles. The reason I add so many twisters (unless it breaks the level) is because they're so unreliable and fiddly to use.
Circus 8 - oh dear, that's embarrassing... :P (can be easily fixed though)
Circus 9 - another backroute, but can also be fixed.

Anyway, here's another update for those pesky clowns:

====================
Version 6.2 has been released
====================


Circus 3 (Jack in t'Box) - added metal to fix a backroute.
Circus 5 (The Weighting Room) - added 1 min.
Circus 8 (Roadblock) - straightened up the roadblock itself (metal), to fix a backroute.
Circus 9 (RGB Nightclub) - added metal above the blue trapdoor, to fix a backroute.
#58
Tech & Research / Re: Editing Lemmings 2 Sounds?
September 17, 2021, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: Dullstar on September 16, 2021, 11:28:54 PM
Tomato Watcher's suggestion to use the AdLib option from INSTALL.EXE is correct based on what it sounds like you actually want to do (it doesn't sound like you actually want to use custom sounds).

Partly correct - I'm interested in pitching down various sounds (oh no, argh, metal etc.) to match the original Amiga versions. (which I was able to do in NL/SL by just copying into the sound folder)
#59
Thanks for the videos, it's great to have you on board. My thoughts on it:

Spoiler

Highland 5 - for some reason, everyone who tested it so far found the more difficult top route...luckily I was able to fix it in 5.0.
Highland 8 - I forgot about that glitch...even though it's escapable, adding an extra minute won't hurt.
Highland 9 - looks like I have another backroute to fix in the middle, as the rock climber is indeed meant to come from below.
Highland 10 - it's a bold concept and by nature will have many solutions, but I really do like it. Your solution was quite impressive too, but I think I can force the other twister to be used in the intended spot.

And this also means that unlike the previous major version, this one didn't have to wait long for an intermediate update:

====================
Version 6.1 has been released
====================


Highland 8 (Loch Lemond Storage Tank) - added 1 min.
Highland 9 (Sky-High Installation) - removed the block in the middle and moved the trapdoor down a bit (to prevent anyone escaping). Also added some red blocks to make the top twister section a bit less risky on the fall.
Highland 10 (Ten Brown Barrels) - raised the height of the red building (to prevent the easy mortar escape), removed the metal from the tall shafts (no longer needed). Also moved the trapdoors around so the one just above the water is now first.
Circus 10 (Deca-Dance) - reworked the rightmost yellow trapdoor (so it no longer requires a bridge), added 5 jumpers.
Classic 10 (Random Lemming Pun) - reworked the terrain under the centre trapdoor. (to make controlling it a lot easier, and to avoid a potentially misleading path at the start)
Medieval 10 (The Siege of Lemcastle) - added more room to the trapdoor by the lake.


#60
Tech & Research / Editing Lemmings 2 Sounds?
September 14, 2021, 03:37:10 PM
My copy of it has the Amiga sounds (it came that way), but I have seen a video using the original DOS sounds...so I was wondering if that version was edited somehow? I can't see anything obvious in the files/folders (aside from a .voc file that won't play in anything), so I was wondering if there was a way to edit the sounds?