Again, I'm impressed with the alternative-route finding with those two...I should probably try to break my own levels before releasing
(although my Superlem skills are somewhat below yours, plus I wanted to get this tribe out before RL forced a break)

Some early private feedback has uncovered a few Highland issues, along with some file copying errors that made certain levels go missing. I'm still not entirely sure on my design philosophy, which seems very different to QFK2's...I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on that and ways to improve it.


====================
Version 3.1 has been released
====================

All Highland levels should be properly available, following various file copying errors.

Highland 3 (McLem's Drunken Dream) - replaced the tricky cloud throw at the start with a bottle of whisky. (what else?)
Highland 4 (Lemfidditch Distillery) - reworked the level a bit, since it was causing trouble. Roper and rock climber removed, throwers down to 10.
Highland 5 (Lembank Docks) - slight tweak to the middle of the top section, to simplify it.
Highland 6 (The Iron-Rich Mountain) - added water across parts of the level, to stop the crawling glitch. (I'm a noob when it comes to knowing about these)
Highland 7 (Artillery Range) - fixed backroute involving a downward-mortar trick.
Highland 8 (Loch Lemond Storage Tank) - removed hanging scenery from the cavern's right-side sloping ceiling, to make the roper/twister bit a little easier to handle.
Highland 9 (Sky-High Installation) - fixed backroute involving a downward-mortar trick and a somewhat clever rescue of the middle trapdoor. Also simplified the top half of the shaft climb, made the top twister section more forgiving and reduced mortars to 10.

Looks like I missed a couple of things after releasing it...


====================
Version 2.1 has been released
====================

Highland 4 (Lemfidditch Distillery) - reworked the level slightly, added 1 roper. (which I'd removed just before release)
Highland 9 (Sky-High Installation) - reduced mortars to 12. (I'd removed a mortar section just before release, but forgot the skills)

The summer solstice has recently passed, and the sun shines down upon you L2 fans...for I can now reveal my level pack in progress - Tribes of Steel!

Apparently someone discovered a prophecy that foretells the death of all lemkind, so the 12 tribes were all told to assemble at their base camps (prefabs erected just in case something like this would happen) with their talisman piece and embark on a journey to the centre of the island in order to escape certain doom.



Note: Current version info can be found at the bottom of this post, as that's where the download link will be.

==========
The Background
==========

A few months ago, I played Quest from Kieran 2 and was enthralled by it - so much so, that I still had thoughts about it long after I'd finished...and recently they persuaded me to have a go at L2 editing myself. One concept level and a bit of learning time on the editors later, and I think it's Thunder-Lemmings are Go!

Based on the same concept as QFK2* with some concepts of my own too, this is a full 120-level replacement. While I'm no stranger to level design (I made concept-based Doom/Heretic/Hexen level packs for 10-15 years), I doubt I'll be able to hit the puzzling heights of QFK2. I will try though, and the new level+skill combos are already bearing fruit. Besides, I've got plenty of ideas up my sleeve to ensure it looks, feels and plays differently (and it's showing already in the levels I've done so far). I'm hoping it'll end up somewhere between QFK2 and the original game on the quality scale (preferably closer to QFK2 ofc), but as long as it plays differently I don't mind.

And just in case you are worried about the execution side and the engine's quirks...there's always DOSBox with savestates. Not quite as sophisticated as NL, but it does the trick. (and given what happened when I played QFK3, there won't be any ridiculous manoeuvres requiring savestate abuse)

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I'm no expert. If you manage to break a level, please let me know what you did (I'm bound to miss things, esp. given that you guys have played a lot more than me). I don't really know much about glitches either, so there's bound to be a few somewhere.


=========
The Concepts
=========

Each tribe has it's own fixed set of themed skills - like QFK2*, but with many changes. (nearly all tribes have at least 2 differing skills)
The first level of each tribe is exactly the same - but with different skills each time. (some are easy, some are hard)
The last level of each tribe has 10 (!) trapdoors - ensuring an epic finale. (having groups of 6 lemmings will open up a new set of solutions and a different approach to solving)
Each tribe requires the full 60 lemmings to reach the end. Classic requires 50, and level names will end in a number to show the death count.

* it partly feels like I'm ripping off the idea, so I apologise for that. But it is how I would've made the original L2 if it was me. Together with my own concepts and challenges, I'm confident it will play differently to QFK2.

=======
The Tribes
=======

It wouldn't be complete without a sneak preview, so here it is. Click on the spoiler for details.













=========
How to Install
=========

Back up your current /LEVELS/ folder within Lemmings 2, then extract the contents of the zip into there, overwriting the existing files.

How to run Lemmings 2 in DOSBox

If you wish to play with the Amiga music instead, grab them from this thread and play externally. (with the PC music turned off)

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=1803.msg44855#msg44855

========
How to Play
========

You have to manually save the game from the main menu, in between levels.

Keyboard shortcuts:

ESC: Quick Restart
F1 - F8: Skills 1-8 (sadly not as usable as L1, particularly on levels not using all 8 skills)
SPACE: Fan (required for several skills)
P: Pause (you can also unpause by pressing Space, if you want the fan ready when you do)
ENTER: Fast Forward (you can also cancel this by pressing Space, if you want the fan ready when you do)

========
Savestates
========

These are highly recommended, as a primitive but still effective player aid. While I've tried to avoid high-precision puzzles (similar to QFK2), the levels are somewhat bigger with more skills (especially the epic finale of each tribe), therefore it will be helpful to use them. There are two options:

If using DOSBox with savestates, you have these controls:

ALT+F5: Save state
ALT+F9: Load state
ALT+F6: Previous slot
ALT+F7: Next slot

(10 save slots in total, with wraparound when selecting)

If using DOSBox-X, you have these controls:

F11+S: Save state
F11+L: Load state
F11+(comma): Previous slot
F11+(dot): Next slot

(100 save slots in total, more than enough!)

I still recommend saving your game manually too.

===============
Current Version - 13.12  (download link at the bottom of the post)
===============

All 12 tribes complete.  The final release will come after testing/tweaking, along with a video playthrough.

=====
Credits (so far)
=====

geoo - for creating both L2Suite (excellent editor/organiser) and PCL2Ed. (which is required occasionally)
GuyPerfect - for creating lgl2. (the main level editor)
kieranmillar - for creating QFK2. (the amazing level pack that inspired me to follow in it's footsteps)

Feedback credits will be added later.

======
Footnote
======

This is a new journey for me (and an unexpected one too), but the ideas are coming thick and fast. I hope to complete it by the time the winter solstice has recently passed, but will probably end up in next year. Either way, only the 3rd full Lemmings 2 game in 30 years will be something to look forward to!

Out of the 3 QFK packs, this was the one I was looking forward to playing the most - and it certainly didn't disappoint. Not only is it a whole new L2 game, it also has fixed skill sets per tribe...which is how the original game should've been done IMO. Here's a few observations from my trip around the island, in the footsteps of the little novel that came with the original game.

Highland: Difficult to identify any signature skills for Clan McLemming, but thrower+hopper made sense by association from the original game (and they love their bagpipes ofc). Good use of the thrower too, given it was only useful in that 1 level originally. I was hoping for more twister action in later tribes, but I did get to twist through the ceiling(!) in the first of many backroutes.

Circus: Loved the clowns for a number of reasons.  Superlem was woefully under-used, here we get to do a few tricks along with exploring the full range of laser blasters ("argh, it doesn't go high enough").  Slightly surprised to see a giant club, but I guess they nicked it from the strongman. Good theming overall.

Classic: Hard to say much about these guys really, as they never change. One level was very annoying to time correctly (even with savestates) but otherwise a solid set of puzzles. Also noting that they do seem to have mostly moved on from blowing themselves up, preferring instead to simply walk off the edge.

Medieval: This tribe has a bit of a theming issue for me - knights in heavy armour are not very likely to be climbing, shimmying and sliding around (as opposed to say, athletes or ninjas). Plus they don't dangle off the end of builder bridges, making one level extremely hard to time correctly.  On the up side, the roller actually gets used (only 3 times, but that's 3 times more than originally), the puzzles were decent (esp. skill interactions) and I learned a few things along the way. (including how to glitch 2 levels and use a roller to backroute another)

Egyptian: This one appealed quite a bit due to the unusual building methods, along with the near-useless magic carpet. Some of the advanced glue stuff did elude me, but I was really impressed with the catacomb level and the solution, plus the fact that I got it. (also pleased with a mini-backroute involving precision sand-pouring...which I was surprised to discover wasn't the official method)

Outdoor: Surprised to see this lot not hang-gliding around or digging up the garden with their bare hands...preferring instead to torch it and re-use old WW2 bombs they dug up previously with their shovels. Some of the later levels are quite memorable (even though I missed the final advanced bomber trick having gotten the previous ones) and it was great to see them planting quite a bit, being used in multiple ways too.

Beach: The theming here is among the best, although I don't know how they keep those big red stacks upright on sand. Great to see the most useless skill of all (diver) being used in multiple ways, and some of the hang-glider tricks were great to pull off (including one that I was surprised with - how did it fit through there?).  Not a fan of the short 2-skill levels in the 1st half, but a big fan of most levels in the 2nd half. (even if they all involved rescuing trapdoors who could only escape by burning through a tube of Pringles)

Sports: Not quite as sporty as expected. I hoped to be poking walls with a sabre and making bridges out of arrows instead of more builder/basher/miner action, although this did work well with the expected rock climber/shimmier antics. And the successful use of pole vaulting (the hardest skill to set up a level for) deserves commendation. In fact the puzzles here are top drawer, quite fitting for the only tribe to have a level this hard in the original game.

Shadow: No bazooka? The lack of climber/shimmier/slider action (that got misplaced earlier) also doesn't make sense, but in all honesty the skill set really works well together. And the levels themselves are a vast improvement on the original game - instead of just being a load of dark blue blocks with the occasional building, these levels actually look like part of a city. Some clever puzzles too (a couple of them got me though), overall one of my favourite tribes. (it's also the only one that I failed to backroute at some point, probably because they're ninjas)

Cavelem: Not sure how they got the technology to use parachutes, but otherwise the theming is spot-on. Nice to see the potential of icarus wings, and even another use for spears (apart from splat-bridging). Puzzle-wise it was the most satisfying, probably because it's the only tribe I didn't need any help with. (and the final level was a case of getting there bit-by-bit, using progressively less bridges in a certain spot)

Space: Most of my theming predictions were right for this one (esp. after Shadow ditched their signature weapon), and weren't they used well? Especially the forgotten magno-boots, it was great to see them used a lot. Jetpacks less so, although I did use a long-range one for a backroute (hehe). Some of the puzzles took a while to solve (and the rescue one got me despite expecting some magno-laser interaction), but I had a real blast with this tribe. Oh, and extra points for the best attractor in the game. (2301: A Synth Odyssey)

Polar: And so we reach the tribe of snow...sadly there was some highly frustrating moments in the 1st half, with timing and precision very hard to get right (understandable in the case of skiers, though).  Thankfully the 2nd half was good, with a series of complex building+digging puzzles - some of which were quite memorable (esp. the snowman) and others that were a bit too Classic-like for me (and surely there was room for the odd signature skill, even for a generic purpose like speeding or crossing a small gap).  I managed to beat everything in the 2nd half though, and the very last level was noteworthy - after a valiant effort to bash under the exit and stack into it afterwards (1 skill short for getting everyone in), I went back to square 1 and figured out the correct way.

Overall I was really impressed with this pack - from putting useless skills to good use, through the excellent theming to the high quality of the puzzles.  The only real criticism I have (aside from the odd theming hiccup) is with a handful of levels requiring the use of pixel-perfect timing/positioning* (esp. the Medieval level mentioned above and a couple of Polar levels). Perhaps builder/basher/miner were used a little too much outside Classic, but it made good puzzles and it only got silly a couple of times. (and still far better than the lookalike-skill spam that we saw in the original game)

In short...if you liked Lemmings 2 in any way, you need to play this - it's how the game should've been designed in the first place.

*To avoid frustration with this, I would recommend using this version of DOSBox which has savestates...it's not NL in terms of player-aids, but better than nothing.
(you'll be especially thankful if you play the QFK pack for Lemmings 3, which I'm currently 1/3 of the way through)

Blockers can push lemmings through walls. This happens because lemmings cannot move towards the center of the blocking area (which is how blockers work), so a lemming inside this area can't turn around until it leaves the area - even if there is terrain in the way. (Combined with climbing in walls, this is known as the "Tame 20" glitch, after the level where it was used to achieve a no-builder solution. Note that you have to remove the blocker for this to work.)

I used to use this trick on Mayhem 26 to bomb through the main wall, to the right of the trapdoor (each time using the trapped lemming which then released the blocker). And I strongly suspect that's why the DOS version was nerfed so it had 20 of each skill instead of 10 (because the main wall was extremely difficult to bomb through normally with only 10).  Alas, it doesn't work in SL so I had to find a different way round.

(assuming it's the right trick I'm thinking of, which is shown here)

Yep, it's another one.

First started in 1991/92 (not sure which) on my cousin's Amiga, followed by my friend's Amiga (both with the budget version) during which time I completed the original and Oh No, while worshipping the 2-player game. (me and my friend were VERY competitive on it, sadly my cousin wasn't as good)
Back home I got the Speccy version, followed by the DOS version (when I got my first PC) and Lemmings 2...where I got stuck on the final Sports level and didn't try again until 7 years later. (when I finished it and was rewarded with a 14th tune)
I did get Winlemm and the Christmas pack at some point (not sure when...2001 maybe) and likewise with 3D, although I never got round to playing the latter.

Fast-forward to 2020 and a nostalgia binge on the first PC games I ever played led me to want Lemmings again...which led to a quandary - how does one bring back the days of friend/cousin Amiga? I didn't want to replay the PC versions, as they are vastly inferior (removing all of the liquid and extra detail, nerfing 2 Mayhem levels, removing 4 Tame levels, and having much worse music). I also wanted to play the budget version because that's what I started on, and I didn't like the special levels for being far too easy while not fitting the game at all. (I was surprised to encounter them in DOS, and even more surprised to find that they were the original levels and the other ones were put in to make a 1-disk Amiga version)

I tried a few options and failed, then discovered this forum and it's modern ports. After trying both NeoLemmix and SuperLemmini, I went for SL because it seemed to be faithful to the Amiga, while also having the basic player-aid from Win95 just in case (NL looks impressive too, but aims at custom rather than original). And when I discovered the Amiga level packs for SL, it was trivial to sort out - and while I was shocked to see instant bombers (and moreso the debate*) I still had a great time with it. Seeing screenshots like this made my day, along with hearing the original music. Not remembering a lot of the levels also helped (it was nearly 20 years ago) along with trying for 100% wherever I could. (I do miss the secret exits in the floor though)

*personally I think the old bombers should be available on the original levels (as an option), while custom levels can have anything.

After this I grabbed an SVN version of Dosbox with savestates, and used it for Lemmings 2 while playing the Amiga music manually from the outside (never really heard it).  And I've recently done the same thing with Lemmings 3, which I really enjoyed despite the weird feel to it. (and the Amiga music here is superb)

Might move onto 3D at some point, and maybe try some custom packs too, but my original objective has been achieved - thanks guys