I noticed that the trigger areas of inverted/rotated fire and water objects are a bit off from my expected behavior.
namida told me that this was due to an adjustment made to don't let lemmings walk right under them ----- but this would be expected and consistent!
Lemmings can walk right under the trigger of normal fire blowers/traps/water and can fit through a 1 pixel high gap! So no adjustments needed here besides the normal inverting/rotating!
Proposal: Remove both adjustments! Previous adjustment (10 pixels lower for invert; +5/+5 for rotate)
As inverted/rotated fire/water objects are mostly used decorational I doubt that more than 10 levels in total would need adjustments. I have 2 levels I can think of which would need some fixes ("Welcome to the Siper Dance" and a Reunion 2 level) due to inverted water is used as a lemming trap and would probably need moving the water down a bit.
Here the IRC log of the discussion:
<IchoTolot>namida42: Hm rotating or inverting objects with trigger area seems to place the trigger area a bit weird when inverting water it seems quite low for example
<namida42>it does modify the position a bit, in an attempt to compensate for that the trigger area is checked at the lemming's foot, not the lemming's center
<IchoTolot>ah ok
<namida42>i don't know if the current change is optimal or not... or what would be optimal if this isn't...
<IchoTolot>maybe just stratch it down but the top of the water beeing not deadly i dont know
<namida42>i insist that the size remains unchanged, only the position may change
<namida42>currently, rotate is +5, +5; while invert is +0, +10
<IchoTolot>currently an inverted fire pit is not deadly where the fire is
<namida42>(iirc)
<namida42>the rotate change works well, but maybe the invert one should be reduced (or removed altogether)...
<IchoTolot>maybe only +5
<IchoTolot>although I would say only +5 and move it to 0 (so a little stretch)
<namida42>no, there's no reason why an inverted object's trigger area should get any larger
<IchoTolot>so fire stays deadly where the fire actually is
<IchoTolot>that's also true
<IchoTolot>the + 5 down on rotate seems also weird
<IchoTolot>the top part of the fire pit is not deadly again
<IchoTolot>I would try removing the adjustments
<namida42>hm
<IchoTolot>as inverted traps are rarely actively used
<IchoTolot>only deco
<namida42>but then, if you build up to a fire pit against a roof, you're probably going to hit your head before getting burned, which is probably not the desired effect...
<IchoTolot>I have some inverted water actively used but that can be adjusted
<IchoTolot>that is alays the case
<IchoTolot>with normal traps
<IchoTolot>like fire blowers
<IchoTolot>i think that that would be ok
<namida42>triggered traps inverted doesn't really make that much sense anyway... primary focus here i think should be on fire and water objects, yeah
<namida42>they're the most likely to actually be used inverted
<namida42>maybe also exits in some weird designs
<namida42>but less likely than fire/water
<IchoTolot>as it is always the case that the lems body/head does not count
<IchoTolot>even in the normal terrain case
<namida42>yeah, that is a good point
<IchoTolot>then it shouldn't fir through 1 pixel hih gaps
<namida42>in the next major update (ie: V1.48n, not V1.47n-D), or an experimental for it, i'll try removing these adjustments altogether
<IchoTolot>a few levels would need a bit of adjustment but I doubt that the number is higher than 10 in total
<IchoTolot>over all designers
<IchoTolot>I think I have 2 or 3 maybe
<namida42>i don't know if i have any at all
<IchoTolot>as water works as a glider trap
<IchoTolot>inverted at a ceiling
<IchoTolot>with updrafts
<namida42>yeah
<namida42>fire can work for this too now
<namida42>in V1.43n-F it wouldn't work because you couldn't have an updraft trigger area and a fire trigger area on the same pixel, but you can in V1.47n
<namida42>(water would work even in V1.43n-F)
<IchoTolot>most of the inverted stuff is more decorative than anything anyway
<IchoTolot>I have used water before yes that worked
<IchoTolot>spider dance and another Reunion 2 level would need adjustments
<IchoTolot>I know that for sure
<namida42>yeah, in V1.43n-F, most objects shared a single trigger map that only allowed one object per pixel; water was on a seperate one to allow exits or pickup skills etc that were only accessible via swimmers
<namida42>but V1.47n has seperate maps for every object type, and in the case where the exact object needs to be identified, a way to do this even when more than one such object exists on the same pixel