Hi,

I'm installing RetroLemmini (2.3) for the very first time and I am getting the error:
Missing resource:  resources/gfx/menu/floater_lemming.png
Checking the install folder, the file is missing and wasn't included in the download here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=23403 . If you copy another png to that path and name it to it it boots.

Lots of great feedback there, thank you! (and plenty for me to get on with)

The releases *are* posted in a (theoretically) public place, since the discord channel I post these on is set to be publicly accessible, but I will consider moving these to a web page, instead.

For managing lag, I use input delay, but with a tricksy setup where each player sees other player's lemmings in old positions. For this to work out, I then implemented a thing where there is also a delay (of the same number of frames) before each player's world changes affect the other players.

You can see this graphically, if you look carefully. As your lemmings build bridges, for example, the newest bridge bits are semitransparent to indicate they only affect you, and, as your lemmings dig, the bits they just dug out are semitransparent to indicate that other player lemmings won't fall through this yet.

Thomas

Testers: crispweed (author), geoo, Simon, cobayeshimaru (presumably from crispweed's Discord group).

crispweed's game 0.0.4, received via PM.

Collection of loose ideas, to be split into topics when an idea gets traction.

Distribution:

• Please choose a name for your project! It's hard to call it "crispweed's game". geoo has begun to call it "client", you probably don't want that to stick. I put it into a directory "crisp", which is better but you should still consider if you want that to stick. If you choose a long name, people will abbreviate it. If you stay around and choose no name, I'll be tempted to call the game "Crisp", which isn't searchable, but it's clear at least to me.
  
• Sleep over whether you want to open-source it. There is no need to rush the decision.
  
• Store releases in a public place, then you don't have to upload it several times (e.g, as a PM attachment).
  
• My preferred way to get it would be either to fetch the source from a public git repository and build it myself, or to download binary releases from your public place.
  
• You told me in chat that you're fine with livestreaming (of such playtesting sessions) or with redistributing your binaries (e.g., for troubleshooting). That's helpful to know already.
  

Networking:

• It's smooth, there is no noticeable lag. I wasn't sure whether it's from a good lag-combatting algorithm or whether it's because we're all from Europe (France and Germany).
  
• Game freezes occasionally by design until all everybody's lag-spikes have clearerd. Felt fine, it hasn't been worrisome so far.
  
• There are two classic ways around the lag: Input delay (Starcraft, Clones) and recomputation of history (Lix). Clones's input delay became problematic when geoo and I in Germany played with the Clones devs in Canada. See me on Clones and geoo on Clones: "in the current implementation, the lag affects the assigning player with every single assignment. With the alternative, it only affects the other player when he happens to be watching the morph assignment in this precise moment, poised to react, which is a less frequent occurrence." And L++ was the precursor of Lix.
  
• The Online Players tab miscounts players, you already know about that.
  
• Confusing screen after play: You have two lists, one for players who haven't returned from game to lobby, and another for players who have. It looks like half the players have dropped from the networking altogether. As long as player X is in the room, X should appear on the visible list.
  

Physics:

• The rectangles (lemmings) get stuck in seemingly-traversible terrain. We estimate that your walker ascension height is too strict. Consider: Lemmings-1 lemmings ascend 6 pixels, Lemmings-2-the-Tribes lemmings ascend 4 pixels. Lix ascend 12 pixels but in hi-res, it's equivalent to Lemmings-1 ascension. Clones was overly strict, see geoo's Lend a Helping Hand remix.
  
• Long tunnelling is expensive because bashers/diggers run out of power after X pixels, and need reassignment to continue. That can be desired or a design bug, you decide. As it is, we, as players, plan the route to tunnel where the terrain is thin.
  
• Reassignment is hard. Reassign too early, and you shorten your reach. Reassign too late, then the lemming will have turned, and you waste an entire skill and opportunity (you can't re-turn him forward). If you're sure about running out of power (like builders do in L1 after 12 bricks), consider shrugging.
  
• Builders don't hit their heads, only their feet. That's refreshingly lenient. Makes it easier to get out of nasty holes or nooks. I have a soft spot for your choice. The builder's head bonk in Lemmings 1 is the design oddity here, not your feet-only collision.
  
• Absolute time timit is a simple and clear way to end stalemates. I like it. I expect that there will be problems with it eventually, but everything else is more complicated.
  
• Allow resignation in matches between exactly 2 players/teams.
  
• Free-for-all games have no straightforward resignation without unbalancing play. That's a design problem for later.
  
• Avoid physics options. It makes level design hard when the level author can't control how his level will behave.
  
• Avoid pushing too many design choices to players. If you must, then also pick really good standards, so the players can still avoid design work. Usually for a given multiplayer level, there is one good set of options (how many diggers, what spawn interval, ...) and players will play that setting over and over.
  

UI:

• Please add hotkeys for skills, and make them remappable. geoo and I play Lix with one hand on the keyboard (accessing ~20 hotkeys) and one hand on the mouse.
  
• I forgot that directional select was still on, and missed some assignments.
  
• geoo and I remember that we weren't able to assign because the selection rectangle didn't appear even though the mouse was near a lemming. But I didn't catch this on video: geoo didn't record, and my instance was earlier this week.
  
• Middle mouse button is hard to press. It's hard for me to scroll. Instead, I zoom out and hope.
  
• Map the scrolling also to the right mouse button by default. Better, make it also remappable.
  
• I don't see bridge holes when I zoom out. But you can consider this a physics bug, not a visibility bug, and make your bridges thicker.
  
• On the contrary, I see bridge holes where there are none, because the zoom will hide the tiny white bricks.
  
• I forgot on which team I am, and, once, what color I play.
  

-- Simon

Quote from: Simon on October 09, 2025, 12:13:25 AMThe 0.0.2 from your PM fixes it, thanks! It connects, the lobby works, and the level plays and displays smoothly. Scrolling works both with the middle mouse button and with the keyboard keys. Looks like all SDL 3 features work in Wine.

More feedback on the weekend.

-- Simon

Nice one. Thanks!

Thomas

The 0.0.2 from your PM fixes it, thanks! It connects, the lobby works, and the level plays and displays smoothly. Scrolling works both with the middle mouse button and with the keyboard keys. Looks like all SDL 3 features work in Wine.

More feedback on the weekend.

-- Simon

Thanks for the report. Great to hear that it runs in wine.

Quote from: Simon on October 08, 2025, 12:13:00 AMAfter 0.2 seconds, the same window tells me: "Fatal Error: Client version not accepted by Server, please update your client."

Sorry! I posted a new release on discord but forgot to send this to you, as well.
(Sent, again, by PM)

Quote from: crispweedoriginal lemmings in 2 player mode
I woke up in the night recently with the idea of making a 3 player version
I am now really enjoying working on the project, and feeling really productive. Not sure about final goals

Ah, then you're still in the middle of it. Good luck, and enjoy the development!

I'll plow through the old topics and find some good high-level discussions. (Many topics are individual issues with too much detail and too little of a high-level picture.) And there are some high-level ideas that I take for granted, but that I've never written down. It's a good opportunity for me to write more. No worries.

Nonetheless: You, because you're still unbiased, are going to solve some design problems in a much better way than what exists. Looking forward to what you'll do!

Quotewhat distribution and distribution version you are using

I run Arch Linux. (No particular version, it's rolling-release). I'll file technical issues in separate topics (server rejects client 0.0.1), then you can continue to have the topic here for onboarding new testers.

-- Simon

crispweed's game 0.0.1, I received binaries via PM.

Running client.exe in Wine 10.12 on Arch Linux. Arch is a rolling-release distribution and has no particular versions. Steps:

• Extract archive into new directory. I have client.exe, entry.png, ..., all in same directory.
  
• I copied the credential file 'credentials.bin' (received via PM) into the same directory.
  
• $ wine client.exe
  
• Client starts without problems. It presents a graphical window titled "SDL3 application" and asks me to enter my name.
  
• I type "Simon" without quotes, with this exact capitalization, into the blue text entry box.
  
• I press Enter.
  

After 0.2 seconds, the same window tells me: "Fatal Error: Client version not accepted by Server, please update your client."

Expected instead: Probably access to the lobby? Something else than version mismatch. I've used client 0.0.1 to which you've linked me via PM earlier today. My internet connection is up.

But at least, yes, it looks like SDL 3 Windows binaries will run well in Wine.

-- Simon

(I sent you some things by PM, also.)

Quote from: Simon on October 06, 2025, 09:35:09 PMYou haven't shared the background of your project yet, thus: What's your vision? Simply make this kind of game more convenient to play (rather than via networking emulator)? Or do you have new design goals for gameplay/physics/rules/...?

So I played the original lemmings in 2 player mode, way back in the day, and really loved this.
I remember loving the whole chaos of this, and the feeling of there being many possibilities in terms of actions and strategy where streams of lemmings meet, and the feeling that it should be possible to get very good at this.

I woke up in the night recently with the idea of making a 3 player version of this, not having played any of the lemmings clones I see here.

I am now really enjoying working on the project, and feeling really productive. Not sure about final goals, with various possibilities there, but for now I really want to get to the point where it is something that is enjoyable and people want to play.

Quote from: Simon on October 06, 2025, 09:35:09 PMI run Linux. I'm happy to build from source myself. Or I run your binaries (Linux binaries directly, or Windows binaries through Wine).

So I would say try running the Windows binaries through Wine, as it would be great to know if this works, and then I will also look into making a native Linux build. (For this, please let me know what distribution and distribution version you are using.)

Quote from: Simon on October 06, 2025, 09:35:09 PMgeoo and I are experienced Lix players. I'm the author of Lix, and both of us have given extensive feedback for the Clones developers. I'm happy to write some longer posts here for you about the design background of Lix and Clones. Let me know what interests you!

So yeah, there is lots of material I should look at here, but maybe it should be up to me to do my research a bit better, with regards to lessons learned by other lemmings clones. Don't hesitate to point me to stuff, for this!

Quote from: geoo on October 06, 2025, 04:55:30 PMI'm curious to see what you've developed. Back in 2008 we tried to play Amiga Lemmings over network through emulators (and it was laggy and the gameplay wasn't great either, still good fun for the first time trying). Since then I've played a lot of networked multiplayer through Lix (and in the early days also Clones), and I think both engine and level design has come a long way since then!

Simon, the dev of Lix, might also be interested.

I'll probably be free the next two weekends. Only got Linux.

Ok, great stuff!
I've sent you some things by PM.

I'll look into making a Linux build, hopefully before the weekend, but for this please just let me know what distribution (and release version of that distribution) you are using..