@Guigui

Wow, nicely done with Whiteout 13 with the save all! My pleasure on the level help and yup, that's exactly the way to save way more time to get the level done within the original 10 minute time limit.

Sometime last year, I was able to get in contact with Dragonslover on YouTube and asked him about The Snow Palace level. He tells me that he doesn't remember what's intended for the level anymore, as he made it a really long time ago, when he was only a pre-teen, and that he likely didn't test it enough. Hence why for a long time I thought the level wasn't solvable and that either the time limit was a mistake or if not that, then maybe the skillset wasn't right. Indeed, it's likely a mixture of both, as on the Dos version (what the level was originally for) the icicle trap is misplaced and doesn't kill the Lemmings. Then, early last year, I was finally able to find a solution on SuperLemmini, which was the engine that jkapp76 originally made this pack for in the 2010s prior to porting it over to NL with assistance from me a few years ago. I tried to replicate the SuperLemmini solution I found to the NL version, only to find out it would work if the player was given 1 additional digger. My speculation here is that it's not that digger pits are wider in SuperLemmini than they are in NL, but rather Lemmings are able to walk further into walls on the former before turning around. Then again, I just tried the Dos version and the level works as is with the original 50 builders and 10 diggers. This here would definitely be a difference in the digger mechanics between Dos and NL, as you can make it through with the remaining 7 diggers in the former but not in NL.

Since you were able to save everyone, I'll probably just restore it to the original 50 builders then while just providing the 1 extra digger. Thank you for showing me that it's possible to optimize my solution at the start with one less builder!

Whereas for a pack recommendation to play next, how about Deceit's Lemmings? Excellent classic 8 skills pack which does get hard later on, especially near the very end, but it doesn't get crazy hard like most packs do around the end.

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=2731.0   

Quote from: Nota_Steve on April 18, 2026, 07:25:29 PMI am really humbled that you chose to play through my level pack, thank you so much, and thank you so much for your feedback, your critique (all of which is fair) and your compliments have really given me an incite into not only how I can make this level pack better, but how I can improve on my ideas for the second pack I am currently working on.

My pleasure I'm always so grateful for new level packs to play and for all the creators who make them to entertain the community! I'll certainly be up for playing your second level pack when it's done.

QuoteI have watched your replays and again, much as the same with a couple of my friends and kaywhyn, I would like to address a couple of the levels in the next coming days and release a smaller little pack with just the reworked levels on. I would like to know how difficult it is to achieve the intended solution (or one of the few in many levels cases).

From what I've seen, it seems to be standard practice to make successive versions of the same pack - i.e. v2, v3 etc. - with a few levels updated and the rest unchanged. The problem with extracting certain levels to make another smaller pack is that if those also get backrouted, are you going to keep making smaller and smaller packs with updated levels? I would've thought it would be easier if you just released a NotaLems v2. Up to you though; your updates will be played either way, I'm sure!

QuoteAlso, thank you for being very welcoming to me and even taking the time to offer as much as you have to me, it really means a lot.

Very well played!

Cheers! I was made to feel welcome by forum members when I joined not so long ago after being a lurker for many years, so glad you feel the same way!

Quote from: Guigui on April 18, 2026, 09:21:52 PMI'd also like to play the pack. But will there be some updates ? I'd rather play after updates since everyone already played before...

Hi Guigui,

Yes, I'm currently working on a few reworks on some of the levels, I should be done within the next few days.

@Proxima The 1-20 draft is looking good so far. I have only these comments to add:

Quote from: Proxima on April 19, 2026, 02:03:20 AM1-7 The Small Jail: From v4. Should we cut out one group of lemmings?

I would say don't cut a group of lemmings. The level's symmetry is part of its aesthetic and appeal.

Quote from: Proxima on April 19, 2026, 02:03:20 AM1-19 Lem Dunk: From v4. Increased RR and lowered save requirement, since we can't use (NeoLemmix) RR below 50.

We can use RR <50 for the NeoLemmix version, no need to change it. IMO, the RetroLemmini version can be different in this regard.

Quote from: Proxima on April 19, 2026, 02:03:20 AMPipe Dream: Not sure about including this, but if we drop "Gotta Save 'em All!" this could replace it so we still have a bubble level in the first 10.

Of the two, Pipe Dream is easily the better level, but "Gotta Save 'em All!" has a better title. Feels like it (the title) should be used somewhere.

Here's a first draft for what the first 20 levels of Picnic might look like. This is very rough, and I welcome all feedback for changes to the selection and ordering. Notes on my reasons for selecting each level, and any changes I've made:

1-1 9 ways to live: We agreed this was perfect as a first level.
1-2 Roadblock: From v2. Originally the blocker tutorial, repurposed as a 10-of-each.
1-3 It's a long, long way to fall: From v2.
1-4 Rise through the ranks: From v2, where it is the climber tutorial. Repeat of "A step too far" from Clammings (which I think is okay because I suggested a maximum of 5 levels from each of Mazu, Clam and I.S. could stay, and that was more because I wanted to keep those levels available for filling gaps like this, not because I want to keep the best five of each).
1-5 Lemmings on the Run: From Ben Bryant's pack, skillset changed to 10 of each. I shrunk the level to 160 pixels tall, which has meant that if the player lets the lemmings walk straight forward, they land on the rock instead of splatting; I think this is okay for such an early level.
1-6 Seeing red: From mobius's Outtakes collection.
1-7 The Small Jail: From v4. Should we cut out one group of lemmings?
1-8 Dig for Victory!: From v2, originally the digger tutorial. Placing it here makes it the trap introduction level (there is one in 1-5 but it's out of the way), and also means the first 10 levels include each tileset once.
1-9 Gotta Save 'em All!: From v2 and another Clam level. See above regarding tilesets.
1-10 Over or Under: From v4. Save requirement reduced to 15/20 (from 20/20) to make it more suitable for early placement; we could add a talisman for saving 20.
1-11 Through Fire and Flames: From v4. See above discussion for moving this later than its previous placement at 1-2.
1-12 In the cavern...: From v4.
1-13 Magnetic Area: From v4. Mobius didn't like this one much but I think it's an interesting way to get used to the mesh terrain and dealing with traps at RR 99.
1-14 Neighbors: From v4.
1-15 Somewhere Under the Rainbow: From v2. Easy repeat of Changing of the Guards. Since I haven't included Lemmington Spa (see below for why), I thought this could be a good replacement, as it has a similar "float down and build up" theme.
1-16 Nothing Gold Can Stay: From v4.
1-17 Let's Play Lemmings!: From v4.
1-18 The Fearsome Foursome: From v4.
1-19 Lem Dunk: From v4. Increased RR and lowered save requirement, since we can't use (NeoLemmix) RR below 50.
1-20 Minesweeper Lemmings: From v4.

The levels in v4's first 20 that are not included are:

Snowy Caves: Long and has more hazards, so it could come later in the rank.
Pipe Dream: Not sure about including this, but if we drop "Gotta Save 'em All!" this could replace it so we still have a bubble level in the first 10.
Lemmington Spa: Especially since we can only include five weirdybeardy levels, I favour keeping the original version of this rather than the 10-of-each version.
Surrealism: 10-of-each version is trivial. WillLem suggested making it 2-of-each, which is possible, but then it would come later.
Hedonist: Not sure about this one, still might include it.
Biosphere: Builder-heavy. Could still include it in the last 10.
Patience, Young Grasshopper: I need to solve the harder version before making a decision, and the 10-of-each version is not easy and would come later.
Himalayan Lemmings: Large and not very interesting.
Crystal Caves: I'm considering using the original (harder) version instead, in which case it would come later.

And the Blizzard of Lemm pack has fallen. All in all a very nice trip in the cold, many interesting levels of medium+ difficulty. Thank you for the compilation jkapp 

Now I'll move onto something hotter, recommendations welcome : not too big and not too hard pack ?

The poll has now closed. Results:

Should the pack contain any 10-of-each-skill repeat levels?

Yes, even if the harder version isn't used - 5
Yes but only if the harder version is also used - 1
Not at all - 3

Accordingly, we will keep 10 (or N)-of-each repeats in the pack. This doesn't mean we have to keep exactly the set of repeat levels we currently have; I plan to add some new ones and remove some existing ones, and I'll post a concrete proposal for the first rank as soon as I can.

Thank you for the replays MASTER-88.
Unfortunately the glod talisman replay breaks on my NeoLemmix installation, because at 3.44, the worker dies in the water. At the beginning you isolate the zombie on the bottom left part (which I did not find, clever), then you open the path to the trap, come back. But then you mine and just die in the water, I'm joining a screenshot just before the worker dies.

Maybe we are not using the same version of the level ?

I'd also like to play the pack. But will there be some updates ? I'd rather play after updates since everyone already played before...

Seems like I have to give this pack a try soon. 

I'll be away the next two weekends, but in the meantime it looks like some patching will be done and then I can see if I find some backroutes the others have missed.