I voted for no repeats at all. Not every pack needs beginner fare.

But Proxima knows that I don't like repeats in general, and I'm not necessarily the target audience here. Count vote as you wish.

I like how you're not re-packaging levels that already are in standalone author packs.

-- Simon

Quote from: JawaJuice on April 11, 2026, 07:48:13 PMI also played through v4 in its entirety (last year) and whilst it's not fresh enough in my mind to comment on individual levels, I'll attach my replays - not sure how useful this is, but if you wanted to check specific levels for backroutes, there's a good chance I found some I suppose the relevant level creator would have to verify that though.

FWIW, I voted to exclude levels duplicated in other packs from the new version of RotL. Personally, if I've played the level in another pack (which would always be the case for MazuLems, Clammings and Insane Steve's World), I'd rather not play them again in RotL - I feel it just makes for unnecessary bloat to an already sizable pack when these other NL packs are all readily available. Just my two cents.

Honestly this is a good point and I can see people actually skipping over levels they've already played in another pack. It feels redundant. I know I'm totally going back on what I just posted the other day but well that's why you can see I shouldn't be in charge of things like this anymore   

Same thoughts as in regards to X-of-each skill levels. Honestly that was the hardest thing with this pack (I've probably said this too many times already) but I know there were a lot of complaints about the difficulty curve but the fact was there just wasn't a huge selection of levels to make it a really smooth curve. But I mean, we know already have the NeoLemmix introduction pack and the a good selection of already easy levels/packs in the community in general now so I don't think it's bad if this pack doesn't have tons of easy levels.

New poll is up. At this point we need to decide what to do about 10-of-each-skill repeat levels.

We have a decent number of easy levels for early on, but, as the gap between 1-1 "9 ways to live" and 1-2 "Through Fire and Flames" suggests, if we don't allow 10-of-each repeats then even the early rank will get tough (from a beginner perspective) pretty quickly.

I also want to know whether people are okay with what mobius termed "ghost repeats" -- creating a 10-of-each skill repeat of a level without using the original level in the pack. On the one hand, that feels a little disrespectful to the original creator; but when we release the pack, we would include a list of such levels, so we wouldn't be misleading players into thinking they were originally designed as 10-of-each. We'd be honest about this being a version specially designed for RotL.

An example of a level we might want to do this with is "Lemmings on the Run", the first level of Ben Bryant's set. It's an easy level, suitable for an early slot, and the original and 10-of-each versions are close enough that we wouldn't want to include both. But I wouldn't include this and other similar levels unless I felt confident that the community was okay with it.

As I am removing the poll and starting a new one, for the sake of transparency, here is a permanent record of the poll result:

What should we do with levels duplicated in other packs (e.g. MazuLems, Clammings, Insane Steve's World)?

Keep them in the level pool and just discard the less good ones - 2
Remove them all (maybe keep just one or two) - 3

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 10, 2026, 09:40:56 PMLevel selection is a very lengthy process, much more than you think, so I'm in agreement here with Proxima that rushing to get a first draft of level selection for Pack 1 isn't the way to go Especially for a project of a large size like this one. Hence I prefer that Proxima and anyone else who wants to help with level selection take time and not rush through it.

Maybe people are misunderstanding what I mean by "First Draft".

My suggestion is simply that we set up a framework on which to build. Levels can be swapped out, moved around, and we get a clear sense of cohesion and direction right from the very start. I'm not suggesting that the first draft be viewed as something that could potentially be released, which is what people seem to think. On the contrary, the first draft should really be nothing more than a list of placeholders. I mean, it could literally say "to be decided" for every entry at this stage!

With that said, the spreadsheet is providing real-time progress updates, which is great. And, Proxima's mentioned that he intends to draft the first rank fairly soon anyway. At that point, things will start to take shape and we'll have a clearer idea of what we're dealing with.

Quote from: kaywhyn on April 10, 2026, 09:40:56 PMAt least personally, I rather do things right the first time around

Impossible. That's why versioning is a thing.

I've been working on remaking all of Ben Bryant's Cheapo's levelset [sg1 and preview sg2]. The levels included in ROTL will be in here as well. This is what's finished so far, I'm still working on the rest. If anyone else wants to contribute, you're welcomed to.

I also played through v4 in its entirety (last year) and whilst it's not fresh enough in my mind to comment on individual levels, I'll attach my replays - not sure how useful this is, but if you wanted to check specific levels for backroutes, there's a good chance I found some I suppose the relevant level creator would have to verify that though.

FWIW, I voted to exclude levels duplicated in other packs from the new version of RotL. Personally, if I've played the level in another pack (which would always be the case for MazuLems, Clammings and Insane Steve's World), I'd rather not play them again in RotL - I feel it just makes for unnecessary bloat to an already sizable pack when these other NL packs are all readily available. Just my two cents.

I'm working through the Frenzy (rank 3 of 6) levels now, updating the spreadsheet as I go. I've had to increase the number of colours to indicate more possible degrees of satisfaction, and I'm also going back and adding new colours to earlier levels.

Bright green: a favourite level, definite keep
Green: good level, almost definitely staying in
Yellow: I like this level but it may have issues (see column H for details)
Blue: I like this level but not enough to make it a definite keep
Grey: I could take or leave this one
Pink: I want to remove this level

you only learn about the universal languange of shutting up

4 CHICKEN EGG THROWN EXACT AT ONLY WILLLEM

Quote from: Proxima on April 10, 2026, 03:54:02 PMSo (although I didn't vote) I am mostly inclined towards excluding these levels. But I don't think we should just blanket ban them, in case they help to make up the numbers or smooth out the difficulty curve. Instead, I think what I'll do going forward is stipulate that for each author that has their levels in a separate NL pack, at most five may be repeated in RotL. That isn't set in stone, of course; we'll see how it works out going forwards.

I too didn't vote, but I had more or less the exact same thought as you in that I also lean towards not including the Mazu/Clam/IS levels in the v5.0 RotL but that they shouldn't be excluded entirely. So, nice to know that you and I had the exact same thing in mind here with including at least one of their levels if it's needed! Just the ones in our opinion we think are their best levels of course.

Quote from: WillLem on April 10, 2026, 06:04:54 PMThanks for sharing the spreadsheet, Proxima! This is a great way for everyone to see what's going on with the pack in real-time.

After speaking with Proxima on Discord, it's become clear that Goal #1 is to curate the pool of levels.

Level selection is a very lengthy process, much more than you think, so I'm in agreement here with Proxima that rushing to get a first draft of level selection for Pack 1 isn't the way to go Especially for a project of a large size like this one. Hence I prefer that Proxima and anyone else who wants to help with level selection take time and not rush through it. Look at Lemmings Redux, for example I didn't take part in any of the process while the pack was in development, but I know it took quite a while to decide on plenty of things, including what levels to put into the pack. As for why I wasn't involved, it was largely because I wasn't too well-known in this community yet at the time, but also I definitely remember I was still on my quest to solve all of Lemmings United and hence was busy with that.

At least personally, I rather do things right the first time around, and if it means taking the time to properly do stuff to minimize errors as much as possible, even if it means taking a while, then the wait was worth it. For example, any level pack conversions I do, I pretty much never release it unless and until I have solving replays for every level So yes, it does mean that it takes longer before pack release, but I'm ok with that  

QuoteThe best thing anyone can do to help right now is to play through this version of RotL and provide feedback, share replays, list your favourite levels, list your least favourite levels, and comment either here in topic or directly on the spreadsheet.

The ones who haven't played through it at least To my knowledge, probably mobius and I are the only ones who have played through the entirety of v4.0 RotL, though I know there were some levels where mobius couldn't find a solution to and hence why there was plenty of volunteer testers before release. I don't think the pre-testers did the entire pack before release and instead a handful of levels that mobius posted for testing. In my case, it's now been nearly 3.5 years since my LP of v4.0 RotL, so I will definitely need to skim through the levels again to refresh my memory. I will hopefully have my own list of which levels I think should be included and which can be excluded sometime this weekend, but the last several days/weeks have been quite rough for me with balancing everything I would like to or need to work on on top of extenuating circumstances.

Anyway, it's been wonderful working alongside members of the Lemmings community on this project!