Ah it was ok no worries! It wasn't your fault - just trying to go halfway up the country on the hottest day of the year

Bristol is a good idea, it's a great place and that's where my sister lives

This topic should have it own board (seriously). It should ideally be the first thing Forum users see.

A quick suggestion for the OP whilst I'm here:

In the SuperLemmix section:

Change this:

"A fork of NeoLemmix tailored towards those who prefer a more traditional gameplay style"

To this:

"A fork of NeoLemmix featuring a Classic Mode, making it suitable for those who prefer a more traditional gameplay style"

Quote from: weirdzod on August 12, 2026, 09:21:42 PMHi WillLem, first of all, I wanted to thank you for your work in the Lemmings community.

Hi wierdzod, thank you for your kind words. It's my pleasure to contribute to this community and it's always good to hear from new players.

Quote from: weirdzod on August 12, 2026, 09:21:42 PMI realized that SuperLemmix is actually the best way to play these levels ... Perhaps it should be suggested somewhere prominent that SuperLemmix is a better option for playing the DMA levels.

As Proxima mentioned, this topic features SuperLemmix quite near the top. The topic should be way more prominent on the Forums, though. It should arguably have its own board!

Regarding SuperLemmix, I haven't actually done anything with it for quite a while now. I certainly will come back to it at some point though. It's by no means perfect but it's tons of fun. Meanwhile, if you're after a truly OG experience with only a handful of modern features and a polished UI, RetroLemmini is also worth a look. It's the only engine I use to actually play Lemmings (as opposed to create levels or experiment with solutions: NeoLemmix/SuperLemmix is better for both).

Quote from: weirdzod on August 12, 2026, 09:21:42 PMOff-topic: The PS3 Lemmings version has a broken music index file, so the music doesn't play... and in one of the packs I mentioned earlier, the *Shadow of the Beast* Mega Drive level plays random music... at least from what I've seen so far.

Thanks for mentioning this. I've put it on the to-do list to get sorted.

Tetris has a good reason for the urgency because your strategy differs toward the end.

Lemmings doesn't have anything like this in the final seconds. What are you expected to do in the last seconds? Click harder? Fast forward faster? Use a consistent color for unwinnable. Unwinnable number of lemmings is red? Then overtime should be red.

If you change this as Proxima and I recommend, you'll have a good chance to get used to the consistent meaning of red. Red means unwinnable state. Time limit hasn't become meaningless. It's the opposite! Time limit is now doing its only job it can ever do: Preventing you from winning.

Since you're looking for examples from other games: Pushover and One Step Beyond have time limits. Both allow you to continue into negative time where you can't win. Positive time is yellow, and negative time is red.

Alternative to minus sign: The yellow hourglass (that has sand in both halves) turns red (together with its number) and has all the red sand in the bottom half.

---

I too have a weak preference for the minus sign in the save requirement, but I can't make a solid case.

The satisfied save requirement is a flag with a checkmark. Consider removing the flag and have only a checkmark in this icon. Makes it easier to see the checkmark, and the switch into the winning state will pop a little better.

Don't introduce options, you're already on the way to make the usual situation non-screaming. Green unmet save requirement is the most important for this. We agree on this already.

-- Simon

It was a still a great meet up despite the smaller group, it felt more personal than usual.

I'm definitely up for meet ups, I'll keep my lieu days free so I can book days off if necessary although if we stick to weekends it should never be an issue for me for the time being.

I feel like meet ups should be more frequent personally, I feel like yearly is just not regular enough. I enjoy every moment hanging out with people at the meet ups, this is honestly the best community I've been part of.

I feel like we should definitely consider other cities for definite for the next meet up. As always, I am up for picking people up for the meet ups if it's remotely feasible, it was actually the first time that I gave someone a lift to a meet up this time (who probably wouldn't have been able to go had I not offered) and it was great fun talking about stuff on the way so I'm happy to do it for future meet ups if it means the difference between someone going or not

Bristol is a good initial suggestion, it's about 2.5 hrs from me though so I think it might be better if it was a multiple day thing. I also think Liverpool was a good suggestion from the previous topic but if we want to go down south to be fairer to those who live down south and find it difficult to get to Leeds, that's fine with me

Quote from: hrb264 on August 13, 2026, 07:58:13 PMThanks to everyone for a great day and props to Flopsy for giving me a lift up to Leeds from Nottingham and back, plus loads of bottles of water! I'd love to come to another meetup especially if you all choose to organise one further south. It was great to put names to faces - great conversation and company

You're very welcome, thanks for coming to the meet up. Like I said above, I'm glad offering you a lift meant you could attend as opposed to not attending. I'm sorry you got home really late though due to your train being delayed

My thoughts:

The fewer colours, the better. In particular, it's nice for the default (most often seen) colour to be green across the board: lemmings in hatch, lemmings alive (when there are still enough to win), lemmings saved (before meeting the save requirement), timer (when there is no time limit).

Colour change on its own doesn't convey any information, unless it's easy to work out from context alone what it means. Number of lemmings going green -> red when there are no longer enough to win is fine (unless you are red-green colour-blind, but we can design the normal feature first and add optional tweaks for colour-blind players later).

For the save requirement, NL goes from negative to positive, so no colour change is needed. NLCE adds a tick to the flag, which is also good. (I would still prefer the negative numbers, as "-5" conveys "5 short of the requirement" a lot more easily than just "5" does, but maybe there's already an option for this?) Anyway, no colours needed here and that's great.

The timer needs to indicate (at least) three possible states: infinite; time limit counting down; overtime. There is already a different timer icon for the "infinite time" case, but I guess we are worried that with time limits being uncommon, a stronger reminder is needed. I am tentatively okay with using colours here, such as the suggested cyan for "there is a time limit" and blue or red for overtime. Of the two, red seems better as it's more consistent: the same colour for "not enough lemmings left" and "not enough time left". Both tell you that the level is failed and you need to rewind. Will argues that red shouldn't be used for overtime because red conveys urgency, while you can remain in overtime as long as you want; but the same is true for "not enough lemmings left" and we're fine using red for that. (Or should we change it to blue for both?)

Completely agree with Simon that there is no need for any "15 seconds left" indication. I grew up playing Repton 3 and I've had enough "15 seconds left" indications to last a lifetime    The player can tell time is close to running out because it says a number that is less than 15.

Quote from: Simon on August 10, 2026, 06:50:30 AMIt's normal to not have yet met the save requirement. Keep it green, it shouldn't stand out.

I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right. In fact, making it green when the SR is met is a reversion to 'default green', which doesn't seem right. So - agreed, let's make it green for 'not met' and change it (and/or use icons) when it's 'met'.

Quote from: Simon on August 10, 2026, 06:50:30 AMI value non-screaming panel colors more than avoiding such a clash.

As well as improving the colour scheme, we could also add an option ('Use colour scheme for panel text' or something). Unchecking it keeps everything green. We make sure that symbols, icons, and the text itself conveys all the important stuff (which it mostly already does).

Do we think such an option is necessary? Or would improving the colour scheme to be 'quieter' be sufficient?

Quote from: Simon on August 13, 2026, 04:38:41 AMOvertime is one case of having insufficient time to win.

I disagree. Overtime is not so much 'you don't have enough time left to win' as it is 'the game is already over'. It's a subtle but important distinction that I don't think red text would convey as clearly as something a bit more neutral (like purple/blue).

Overtime in NL serves 2 primary purposes:

1) Allow the player to continue exploring the level

2) Allow the player to rewind into 'playable' time

In either case, we need to let the player know that they are in Overtime. Purple/blue does this without conveying urgency (which red arguably does more so) or normality (for which we are using green).

Quote from: Simon on August 10, 2026, 06:50:30 AMFix the design bug where the engine guesses that 15 seconds is somehow an important threshold. Ditch the entire threshold feature. Zero is the important threshold. Either you can win (depending on other things) or you can't win. When you can't win anymore based on the clock alone, you have a reason to recolor from yellow to red.

It's a fairly standard design practice for a descending timer to change to red, or orange, or some other 'urgent' colour, when time is close to running out, but not actually fully run out yet. Another design choice I've seen is to make the timer flash, but - let's not do that!

15 seconds is somewhat arbitrary, agreed, but we do need to provide the player with some visual feedback that the timer is close to running out, especially since time limits only tend to be used in custom levels when they're an actual feature of the level - most levels use infinite time. The player therefore needs to be reminded that the time limit (a) exists - the icons do this, and (b) is critical - if not with colour, and definitely not with flashing, then... what would you suggest?

Quote from: Simon on August 10, 2026, 06:50:30 AM#3 But what is confusing with this?
yellow > 0 seconds
red < 0 seconds

If I see a timer turn red, I'm more likely to think 'time is about to run out' rather than 'I'm out of time'. Indeed, most games just end when time is up (the only other video game (than NeoLemmix) that I can think of that uses Overtime is Tetris!).

Also, the use of red arguably conveys urgency, as previously mentioned. There is nothing necessarily urgent about the 'Overtime' state. Quite the contrary: the timer no longer matters once it's run out. This is why purple/blue is better.

Quote from: Simon on August 10, 2026, 06:50:30 AMPrint a minus sign!

IMHO, this is more visually noisy than colour. I'd honestly rather not do this if we don't absolutely need to.

We need others to chime in.

Thanks to those who attended the meetup. It was great to see everyone again, even if the group was a bit smaller than usual.

Perhaps we could arrange another one for the Autumn, somewhere further south (someone mentioned Bristol which I think would be a great place to meet) so that it's a bit more central for everyone to travel to.

I'll post a topic for it soon (or, anyone else is of course free to create one in the meantime).

This bug has arisen again. The newly-implemented check is in the correct place, but didn't account for 2px vertical movement at frame 0*. This has now been fixed.

Fixed in RLPlayer commit bd398f8.

*Note to self: Why is the Miner moved 2px downwards at frame 0?

Thanks to everyone for a great day and props to Flopsy for giving me a lift up to Leeds from Nottingham and back, plus loads of bottles of water! I'd love to come to another meetup especially if you all choose to organise one further south. It was great to put names to faces - great conversation and company