A quick comment regarding numbers.

I'd like us to aim for 120 levels (4 ranks of 30) for packs 1 and 2, but if push comes to shove I can concede that it might end up making more sense for one of the packs to have 100 levels. I'd probably suggest that we flip the script here, though, and make pack 1 the 100-level pack with 5 ranks of 20 levels. Reason: pack 2 is supposed to be the more difficult pack. There are more difficult levels than there are easy levels, and there will be less of an upward difficulty curve between ranks for pack 2. Ergo, it makes more sense for pack 2 to be bigger, and have fewer ranks.

The alternative is to keep RotL as a single pack, albeit with fewer levels than the existing version. This is the least preferable option IMHO. I'd rather source some duplicates from packs made around the same time as the original RotL (essentially making the 2-pack version something of a "best of" collection) rather than end up with what would essentially just be a slightly less bloated version of the existing pack.

It shouldn't come to that though. Hopefully, between myself, mobius and kaywhyn, we'll be able to re-approve enough of Proxima's shortlisted levels to make the numbers up without it feeling too much like we're keeping levels just for the sake of it. If at least one of us genuinely likes the level, that's good enough for me.

-reminder to change "minimac"'s name to "Minim"

-Perhaps we should alter the title of "we go separate ways" [originally Dangerzone] as it might spoil the solution for some.

<in replay to the comments on the google doc> :: also found here :: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gSs0lsAdHntkJ8ffSTbwg2yBkmqZFFTNGA07KD9LjEI/edit?gid=874540697#gid=874540697

I honestly agree with most of the decisions here and right now I'm leaning toward; "if we want more levels, bring old ones back/use them from the big packs (A notable example I'd propose is "Rhapsody" by ISteve. It's a great level on its own and fits with the harder "repeat" Rhapsody in Blue).
atm, I'm still on the fence about this. I'll give it more thought and review the pack.


notable disagreements/comments: (for now)

Crossing Paths: I agree to move it later but I'm as surprised as I was early on that so many people struggle with this level. Kaywhyn resorted to using a very advanced trick that is *not at all necessary* to solve it. If you look at my replay its actually quite simple...

10 is a magic number - this one looks simple but requires more than a little thought. I found it quite a challenge actually for it's placement and I think it might ought to be placed later.

Crossing Paths part 2 [likely be made part 1?] - imo this is one of Minim's best levels, its not difficult but fairly unique.

Stop look and listen [I don't remember finding this one too fiddly and I don't find multitasking a bad thing... (necessarily)]. But if it is fiddly it could probably be fixed?

Wing It: I also really like this one; maybe can be ranked lower a bit tho?

Ups and downs - I like these compact but non-trivial levels and this one has at least a few solutions requiring some mildly out of the box thinking.

Spoiler

making a faller a bomber isn't something newbies find obvious

There is also t3tesla's level original called "ice ice lemming" which is supposed to be a cheesy level

Spoiler

direct drop

but is solvable by normal means, and isn't even that precise on DOS, not a bad level imo, this could potentially replace it?

Let's Split - is it the multitasking you don't like? Again, I enjoy the unique challenge this level presents and it's not too difficult imo (good for an earlier rank placement)

A small problem: same comments about multitasking. I know it's builder heavy but it isn't a typical "L1 style long walk builderfest". Every level that's builder heavy (or involves multitasking) isn't necessarily bad imo. This one presents a bit of a unique (not super difficult) of splatform stacking/building challenges that isn't just "simply build over this pit). EDIT: This doesn't actually require any multitasking or timing what so ever. I actually forgot this re-watching my replay and I was reminded of some of Clam's amazing builder levels. (which of course if we ultimately decide to include levels by him there are several good candidates there as well)
I will add however; to make the final assignments to free the crowds less annoying; make the starting pits shorter to require fewer builders by adding steel there. I feel like I did this already or wanted to do this in 2022, not sure why its not already done.

Quote from: Proxima on April 27, 2026, 08:57:55 PMA reminder to anyone who wants to contribute: the most helpful format is a description (video link will do) of both the backroute and the intended solution -- not just a fix suggestion, because if we can all see the backroute, we can all put our heads together to come up with the best fix.

And indeed "Cry for me" is a perfect illustration of this, because mobius's suggestion doesn't fix the backroute at all.

Spoiler

Intended solution: First top lemming builds to the red terrain; bash and mine to the exit. Two will slip past; make them floaters. One climbs up, builds to the exit; link the bottom crowds with a basher, build over the bash tunnel, and make everyone climb.

Backroute: First top lemming builds to the middle pillar, then to the exit. Four will slip past; make them floaters. Do the rest as in the intended solution.

(I don't remember exactly how I know the above-described solution is intended, but I remember the level from the Cheapo days, and I distinctly remember that at some point this was confirmed.)

A better fix is to reduce the floaters to 2, or increase the RR so that more lemmings fall past if you attempt the backroute. In Lix, the spawn interval is 15, corresponding to RR 88; in RotL v4 the RR is 80.

Thank you for getting this started 

A reminder to anyone who wants to contribute: the most helpful format is a description (video link will do) of both the backroute and the intended solution -- not just a fix suggestion, because if we can all see the backroute, we can all put our heads together to come up with the best fix.

Link to kaywhyn's LP of version 4

Link to kaywhyn's LP of version 2

I have a couple of backroutes of my own to contribute:

1-39 Access Denied (Ben Bryant):

Spoiler

Intended solution: Bash right. Climb up, mine down the stack of three white blocks. Mine down the one-way wall. When the climber returns, mine to the enclosed exit; build over it. Bash left and mine to release the crowd.

Backroute 1: Bash right twice (under the enclosed exit) and interrupt the basher to get up.

Backroute 2: Bash right. Climb up; mine down from the top-left corner of the one-way wall so the lemmings will checkerboard through to the exit. Mine and bash under the exit; build up to the first miner tunnel.

3-36 Pyramid Puzzle:

Spoiler

Haven't found the intended solution, but this is almost certainly a backroute. Hold the crowd between two blockers, both on 2-brick bridges, while one builds off to the left (4 builders) and becomes a blocker. Release the left blocker, then release the right one with the last lemming. The newly released blocker mines to turn around; the other lemming can build to the right wall to turn. Build to the exit.

Will this be in the next update?

Ah. In fairness, the Lemmings Plus series is huge: 6 main packs, 2 Omega packs, Alpha, Holiday, and 3D. It took me about 3 years to play all the packs, including 3D. This includes Doomsday Lemmings, but that's not considered a Lemmings Plus pack. Still, it is a level pack by namida

Thank you for the honesty with needing to look up some solutions for LPO2. This is understandable, as it is one of the hardest packs in the series. Alpha is supposedly harder, though this is debatable. In my experiences, I found LPO2 to be harder than Alpha, though in fairness it's likely because I backrouted some of the levels in the latter

Anyway, glad to hear your problem of the "skill blueprint guide" not showing for the Lemmings is solved!    

Quote from: Guigui on April 23, 2026, 04:37:18 PMIm currently playing the Tough rank of this pack (I started by hardest rank as per my stupid habit, I like to end with soothing levels )

I can confirm that Tough 4 No Justice is hard and requires a lot of precision. One will definitely struggle to save those left-side Lemmings if not pixel-precise.
I do have a solution that saves 47/46 :

Spoiler

One extra Lem saved, certainly by sparing a bridge over what's intended to stop the miner before it falls to the bottom.
To achieve this you have to place the bomber, miner, and 2 builders in pixel-perfect places. See solution if interested.

Excellent solution, really, really good, well played! No Justice was designed to be a bit of a blocker. I've seen 3 different solutions now, and I know I'm dealing with some SERIOUS god tier Lemmings players here, haha.

 

well it has taken me 4 years to get thru the packs to this point - and  I confess sometimes I was so stuck that I cheated and looked up answer on youtube.

but thank you so much!!

not sure how I accidentally changed that but fix was so simple!

just untick hide skills shadows  

 a

Hello @Helen,

You're almost done with LPO2? Wow, that's a big accomplishment, considering it's one of the hardest level packs and that only 3 people, along with myself, have been able to solve all of the pack. And namida of course, but does he really count, since he's the pack author?

Sounds like you're referring to the skill shadows in NL? There is an option to enable/disable them in the options menu in the game. When you're on the main menu, press F3 or click on the F3/settings menu card, go to the Interface tab, and in the middle under Interface Options, there is an option called "Hide Skill Shadows." If you don't see them when mousing over a Lemming, it means the box is checked. If it is, uncheck it, and you should be able to see them again in-game

edit: Proxima posted while I was typing, but yea, same thing, check to make sure the box for hiding skill shadows isn't checked in the settings/options menu and if it is uncheck the box. Only thing I would add to his post is that it's NL for sure, AFAIK LPO2 has only ever been made for NL