Author Topic: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread  (Read 79874 times)

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Offline geoo

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #135 on: June 20, 2010, 11:26:49 AM »
Hahaha, I'm surprised there are so many solutions to such an 'impossible' level. :P

Pretty nifty solution, I didn't expect the rope to reach that far.  :thumbsup:
And yep, I chose the title with that in mind :-)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #136 on: June 20, 2010, 03:02:40 PM »
Hmm, not sure if this is your intended solution or not.  If it isn't, then this is probably way more awesome than your actual solution. :evil:  Either way my jaws drop. 8) :thumbsup:

Quote from: spoiler (additional notes)
The key moves, in sequence, are:
  1) assign the sand pourer exactly as in screenshot A
  2) assign the platformer exactly as in screenshot B
  3) assign the roper exactly as in screenshot C
  4) well before the roper is ready, assign the flamethrower exactly as in screenshot D
  5) aim the roper exactly as in screenshot E

Moves 1-4 are pretty close to each other in time, so be ready to pause immediately after each step.

This makes use of the fact/glitch that both the sand pourer and the platformer can continue working while standing on thin air, as is the case when the flamethrower takes out the ground they stand on.  The flamethrower's purpose is to unblock the flow of sand otherwise blocked by the platformer's 1st brick (while leaving most of the platformer's platform undisturbed).  The rope will catch onto the platformer's 2nd brick, just in time to catch the last bits of sand (screenshot F), leading them down to free the lemmings on the left pit (screenshot G).

The reason moves 3 and 4 are in the order given is because if we assign the roper last, the rope forms too late to catch sand (at least the time I tried it that way; it could just be my mistake).

Offline geoo

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #137 on: June 20, 2010, 03:30:35 PM »
Yep, this is what I intended for this level, thanks for the compliment. :) You seem to have found it pretty quickly. :thumbsup:

The only thing I do differently in execution is that I switch step 2 and 3.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #138 on: July 29, 2010, 09:06:10 PM »
Ok, my latest custom L2 level is finally ready; I've been working on and off on this over the past months or so.  This time I've chosen (originally for puzzle reasons) the Shadow tribe, which actually is pretty good for level design in terms of availability of "straight" pieces.  The only con to working with that tribe, and this is partly a deficiency with GP's editor, is that because everything's in shades of dark blue, it can be very difficult to tell visually what the various tiles look like until you put it into the level.  It's also not a great style to use obviously if you crave color, but I find myself generally pretty uncoordinated color-wise anyway. :P :-\

Gold is save all lemmings.  The title "Mission: Impossible?" actually was inspired by the theme music of the Shadow tribe, but I can easily understand if you think it refers to the level's difficulty. :evil: :P  Actually, I have to say I'm a bit ambivalent about the intended solution.  You know it's worrisome when even the level creator usually takes half a dozen or so tries to successfully execute the intended solution. :o :XD: :-\  Part of it I'll say is necessary evil for the intended solution (which sounded good on paper, I swear :P), although I suppose there are one or two places where it might be possible to ease up on precision, though doing so may require doing things like changing the level's visual design or adding skills, which I decided to be problematic.  At least now that I've introduced a good way to frame-step in DOSBox, hopefully it'll help keep down the frustration level resulting from some of the precision.  I'll also say that this level is not a case of precision for precision's sake, at least not intentionally, so think twice if you find your solution seems to feature precision that exists for no good reason.

I've taken some time at backroute elimination and managed to convince myself that despite a number of potential backroutes, they do not actually work due to lack of skills.  Of course, level creators are the worst when it comes to judging backroutes of their own levels, so feel free to prove me wrong!  I might even feel pity at the slight difficulty at executing the intended solution and give you a free pass on it. :P  (Nah.)

Oh, one more thing:  the Shadow tribe is notorious for having lots of background graphics, and it's not always obvious what is background and what isn't.  Therefore, I've attached a screenshot of the level in GP editor's "reveal mode" so there's no question as to what's what.  You'll note that just as before, I've kept the usage of foreground vs background graphics absolutely consistent with how the official L2 levels do it in the Shadow tribe.  The background graphics are definitely very helpful in this level visual-design-wise, as the general form of the level naturally leads to certain areas that would otherwise be somewhat empty.

Good luck!

[edit: forgot to mention, feel free to PM me if you want to know you're on the right track with a solution that you just have trouble executing]

[edit2: another random thought:  feel free to add a superlemming or two to the level if you feel it helps you explore various areas in the level (obviously any solutions that need the extra skills don't count).  I'd argue you don't really need this because I think you still have enough skills to get at least one lemming to just about anywhere in the level, but hey, whatever helps.]

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #139 on: August 03, 2010, 08:37:01 PM »
So the new version comes without the thrower, and with a new name.

I can't believe it took me this long to realize the meaning behind the new name. :XD:  It only hit me today when I was browsing through the official (mostly) levels for design ideas, and by chance ran into one of the levels I previously replaced with a version of ATS with that title, and for no particular reason*, finally noticed a little detail (no pun intended, but whatever) about it:

Quote from: spoiler
Compare the dog on geoo's level with one from the official level.

I'm amazed how well that tile substitution works, it looks completely seamless. 8)

*Actually that's not entirely accurate.  I actually first looked at the dog from an official level to study some pixel-level details related to walkability, when I noticed that the tail should've prevented me from walking up the dog like I could in geoo's level.  And that's how I was led to compare the two.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #140 on: August 05, 2010, 05:45:33 AM »
Yet another new level!

It may be surprising that I ended up picking the cursed Highland Tribe for this.  But the more surprising thing is that it may well be the most suitable style for my level--it seems my original level idea puts a lot of requirements on what terrain and objects the style needs to offer.  In any case it works out for the best, as using the Highland style actually helped led me to come up with a trickier solution than what I originally planned.

Gold is saving all lemmings.  Some pixel precision required (but not arbitrary) so feel free to frame-step, and to PM me if you want to avoid wasting time on "the wrong track".  No outrageous glitches, but you do need to know (or discover during play) the subtleties of some of the skills offered.  You also shouldn't need to make moves that require "luck"--if you find yourself doing that, try varying the details of other moves to eliminate the need for such "luck".

Despite Highland's poor track record, hopefully there are no backroutes this time--we'll see......

Oh, and clouds are background while everything else are terrain.  The dog is also terrain which, while not consistent with many of the official Highland levels, does have a precedent in Highland 8, not to mention various custom levels of other people.  Good luck!

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2010, 07:14:51 AM »
Here's something a little different.  I figure that since there are so few people designing custom L2 levels at the moment, in the interest of fairness and diversity, we need to offer some more, well, down-to-earth levels.  At least once in a while.  Something more like ClamSpammer's "Throw the Switch" level, say, or Dullstar's "Cascade II", to balance out some of the more brain-twisting levels.

Thus this level.  Not sure how I'd rate the difficulty, but it should be a breather compare to my previous two levels.  Gold is saving all lemmings, and it should be obvious what's terrain and what's not (just check with the level preview).  Enjoy!

Since the level wasn't designed on the outset with a single solution in mind, it's possible that there are multiple solutions to the level (though perhaps not, given the limited skillset and simple design).

Offline weirdybeardy

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #142 on: August 07, 2010, 07:01:33 PM »
Hi guys. I haven't been here for a while so I'm really glad this thread is still alive!  :thumbsup: You might not remember me; about a year ago when the L2 custom thread was young I designed a couple of mediocre levels. "The Diptych" was one of mine; probably my least-crappy.  :P I've also got some L1 levels in the Archive, but some of those are even worse!

Anyway, I'm loving being a lurker! And yes, I'm still downloading the levels that appear up here. @ccexplore: Looks like you're on a roll!  :)

Bye for now.
My projects:

Lemmings in Weirdyland (NeoLemmix):
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6135.0

My levels for Lemmings 2 The Tribes can be found here:
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=990.0

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #143 on: August 08, 2010, 02:13:14 AM »
Any chance you'll make another level sometime?  I don't think your levels were mediocre at all, they might not be brilliant but they're still fun to play.  Perhaps you should talk to geoo about his L++ levels--he might not advertise it heavily, but there are definitely some "late night" levels he has made that are deliberately more on the silly side.

I don't know if I'll say the thread is still alive, it's really only alive at this point by virtue of me and geoo :-\; I do wish more people would participate in this. :(

Offline geoo

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #144 on: August 09, 2010, 01:30:24 AM »
Yes, finally got that final twist to get 60/60 in 'Hi Nessie':
Quote
Stomp away a bit of the ball, and then have one lemming from the crowd rope forward at the very edge of the ball. The anchor will make the lemmings walk through the ball, while the rope will go through the ball as well. Ensure that no lemming drowns before the rope is set.
This level sure is a box of tricks.

'Mission Impossible' looks exciting, as the general route is not as clear here. There's a lot of possibilities to examine. Still got to have a proper look at it (though preferably not before Wednesday), I didn't see a viable approach on first glance yet.

Nice to see you again weirdy! I remember enjoying your levels, in particular the circus and shadow level gave me some trouble back then, and 'The Diptych' was pretty tricky as well.
I think your levels might be appealing to a broader audience than the ultra-hard levels ccexplore and me have been challenging each other with lately (except for TAGC, which is a nice and elementary puzzle, and perhaps 'Recycling Plant' mainly focusing on one central idea). So don't hesitate to get going again, perhaps this will draw some more interest into this thread again.

You remind me, I think I haven't really played your L1 packs yet (I remember 'Death or Glory' for some reason though). Some of them seem a bit builder-heavy, but I like the designs (not just the visuals, but also the underlying ideas). I think I should still give them a whirl.

Oh, and I think weirdy's levels are definately not in the realm of silliness that ours (i.e mostly mine and Simon's) late-night levels are... But if you (weirdy) are interested regardless, give me a note.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #145 on: August 09, 2010, 02:04:33 AM »
Oh, and I think weirdy's levels are definately not in the realm of silliness that ours (i.e mostly mine and Simon's) late-night levels are...

Yes, sorry if someone misread my comment, but I wasn't trying to compare weirdy's levels to something like geoo's "what a carsome level".  Instead I just mean that even someone like geoo is perfectly capable of levels like "what a carsome level" ;P, so there's absolutely no reason for anyone to feel the need to hold back on this thread.

And good job to geoo :thumbsup:; Nessie's very happy to finally be visited by all 60 lemmings from across the pond. :D

Offline weirdybeardy

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #146 on: August 09, 2010, 11:26:53 AM »
Well, you guys are definitely encouraging!  :D I have to say, I decided to make a re-appearance because every few months I do tend to re-catch the Lemmings bug and become very enthusiastic for a while. I was hesitant to say "Yeah, sure I'll do some more levels" because I know from past experience that when I decide to put the effort into something fun like building some custom L2 levels, everyday-life has an annoying tendency to drop a truck-load of everyday-life stuff in my lap to deal with which just gets in the way or totally zaps my motivation. I always figured it was better to give a non-commital "maybe" and see what happens than tempt fate and say "definitely" and then have nothing materialise at all.

I have no idea if that paragraph made any sense!  8) Having said that, you fellas are being very encouraging, as I mentioned above. Encouraging enough to change my "maybe" into a "probably". It'll take me a little time to get to grips with GuyPerfect's excellent editor once more, but with the right attitude I'm sure I can scrape something together.

I like the open, free-for-all attitude when it comes to level designing. It inspires people instead of alienating them. You guys are the masters, I'm more of a padawan learner.  ;P But I still feel like I can put together the kind of level that wouldn't look out of place in a L2 fan-game, if you catch my drift. My levels might not meet the uber-challenging standard of a lot of the custom-level supremos you find on these boards, but if they're fun to play and cause a few minutes of head-scratching, then I'm good. Plus I like levels to look pretty.  ;P Backroutes don't bother me so much.

You guys make the hard levels, I'll do the medium ones.  :D

And yes, I think I'll see what I can come up with. I wouldn't be writing this rambling message if I wasn't interested...!  :thumbsup:
My projects:

Lemmings in Weirdyland (NeoLemmix):
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6135.0

My levels for Lemmings 2 The Tribes can be found here:
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=990.0

Offline weirdybeardy

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #147 on: August 09, 2010, 11:35:59 AM »
Oh dear, I just remembered how embarrassing some of my L1 levels are.  :( ;P Eh, I guess it's not for me to judge. But yeah, "Death or Glory!" is my best. "Riddle Me This" ain't bad either.

I wonder if more would come to this thread if they didn't feel pressured to create amazing levels right off the bat. Case in point: Giga. Despite what you may or may not think about his approach to things (  ;P ), you can't deny his enthusiasm, and any enthusiasm for a classic computer game that's two decades old is a good thing if you ask me.

Oops, I didn't meant to get all soap-boxy just then. What I mean is, less pressure to make levels that are very difficult might broaden the L2 custom thread. Some of my favourite levels from L2 itself are actually some of the easier ones... You get me?
My projects:

Lemmings in Weirdyland (NeoLemmix):
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6135.0

My levels for Lemmings 2 The Tribes can be found here:
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=990.0

Offline weirdybeardy

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #148 on: August 09, 2010, 11:45:40 AM »
One more thing: at the moment my gaming time is divided between Lemmings and Killzone 2 on the PS3.  ;P Which might not help. But I dunno if I'm really feeling the FPS vibe these days. I only started playing it 'cos I bought it with the PS3 and it's been sitting on my shelf gathering dust for months and I never actually played it yet.  :D  Playing a game because you feel like you should isn't always an altogether fun experience...!
My projects:

Lemmings in Weirdyland (NeoLemmix):
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=6135.0

My levels for Lemmings 2 The Tribes can be found here:
https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=990.0

Offline ccexplore

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Re: custom levels for Lemmings 2 thread
« Reply #149 on: August 09, 2010, 07:05:09 PM »
I have no idea if that paragraph made any sense!  8)

Actually it makes a lot of sense.  The fact is, the time I spent in making levels tends to cut into time that I should've been working, socializing, and to say nothing of sleeping. :XD: :-\

It's good to know that you've merely been distracted with loads of fun non-Lemmings stuff, as opposed to have totally moved on. :P  Actually I think the same (ie. distraction) goes for a lot of people on the forum.