[+][SUG][PL] Update "Lems Saved" count on skill panel

[Guigui]

This can work. Though make sure the Lems in hatch number is always visible.
Sometimes it disappears behind terrain, or out of the level if hatch is too close from the borders.
Maybe force it to display clearly when player mouses over the hatch ?

[WillLem]

Making the minimal changes necessary to begin with, we now have this:


From L-R: Lems yet to spawn, total lems available, (save requirement - already saved). The last of these now answers 2 questions: what is the save requirement (which can still be viewed by mousing over the icon)? How many are still to be saved? And meanwhile doesn't create any questions like "why is this a negative number"? Good.
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All lems have spawned. 15 are available, 5 have been saved (so 5 have still yet to be saved)
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10 are available, and the save requirement has now been met (we show 0 in green).
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After a single additional lemming is saved, the save count starts to show the total saved. At this point, 5 are still available and a total of 15 have been saved.

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We could probably continue to show hatch lems on the panel tbh, there's not really any need to remove it and create UI junk elsewhere. I'd still prefer to keep it as the first item displayed, because it will normally be the first to reach 0 and become no longer relevant, and it's the first number that possibly can change.

The above could probably be enough just by itself to meet the OP's needs, but perhaps additional UI such as a light-up or checkmarked exit could provide further feedback.

Thoughts so far?

[Guigui]

Thanks for the screenshots WillLem, they allow to better understand how things work 

Thoughts :

* Order of display : oh well it works that way. I dont know why it'd seem more natural to me with Total Lems first, but whatever.

* Total Saved / +Extra Saved I still think that displaying the Total Saved once objective has been fulfilled may create confusion. In the example above if you reach the requirement the displays turn to 0, OK.

But then saving another Lemmings makes the display jump to 11 and creates a discontinuity : 0->11 with a single Lemmings in ? Hard to interpret for the player imo.
Making the display go to +1 sounds easier to interpret. Sure you can not see the required total, but who cares since you just reached it anyway ?

Also reading "Flag +1" makes it quite clear that you have reached the flag and have an extra lemming saved. However : "Flag 11 (blue)" is quite the same as "Flag 11 (green)" but one means "you still have 11 to save" and the other means "you have saved 11". Quite confusing again.

It'd be nice to hear other players thoughts on this ? Or maybe just create an option that allows to choose one or the other ?


* Color Scheme Blue for objective not reached looks weird imo. For now blue is for "description when hovering over something". I'd suggest :
* Yellow while not reached, then turn to green. Need some tests to see if yellow on screen most of the time is not too disturbing.
* Green while not reached, then turn to blue. This way you see all green most of the time and blue for victory. Sounds fine too.


Finally : maybe add a short (blue) description of the numbers when you mouse over them ? The same way you get a skill description when you mouse over them in the skill panel.

[WillLem]

* Order of display : oh well it works that way. I dont know why it'd seem more natural to me with Total Lems first, but whatever.

Another good(ish) reason to have hatch lems first: this is what NL users are used to. Yes, with CE, I'm happy to completely re-work all UI elements if it makes things undeniably better, but in this particular case the status quo happens to support my own judgement and I see no good reason to change it.

"Flag 11 (blue)" is quite the same as "Flag 11 (green)" but one means "you still have 11 to save" and the other means "you have saved 11". Quite confusing again.

It'd be nice to hear other players thoughts on this ? Or maybe just create an option that allows to choose one or the other ?

Well tbf, Dominator_101 previously stated that "+" would be preferable for much the same reasons as you have given, so that's 2:1 in favour of "+".

An idea, then. Get rid of negative save count and instead make the option "count down from SR" or "count up from 0". If "count down" is chosen, we can display "+" and the additional lems saved once 0 is reached (this is actually identical to the current negative save count display except that we're not showing "-" and are instead showing "+" once SR is passed). "Count up from 0" can then always display the total. Both options can also make use of color and icons to denote "SR passed".

Blue for objective not reached looks weird imo. For now blue is for "description when hovering over something". I'd suggest ... Yellow while not reached, then turn to green.

I chose Blue because the time limit is currently Blue when the level has a time limit and is counting down. This seems somewhat consistent, then. I've changed "hover" color to Teal for the SR, which admittedly is less consistent since everything else is Blue when hovered, but honestly it looks pretty good. Yellow just doesn't look that great tbh; it's the current colour used when not displaying negative save count, so you can preview it in the current RC if you want to see how it looks. Let's give the Blue a try in the next RC and see what we think.

add a short (blue) description of the numbers when you mouse over them ?

Yes, good idea. We can do this for sure.


EDIT: Went ahead and added most of the above. Here's a screenshot showing the teal SR when moused-over (plus panel hint):



And, here's the Exit flag with checkmark when SR is met, and "+" showing extra lems saved:



NOTE: The "+" and checkmarked exit flag have had to be added as extra characters to the panel display, so require "ce-" prefixed gfx. These will be embedded into CE.exe, but can also be modded by adding a "ce-" prefixed image to either level pack or gfx/panel folder.


EDIT 2: After testing this for a bit, we can totally do away with the option and the mouseover SR (which is actually now both redundant and somewhat confusing), and instead push reliance on the mouseover panel hints and Exit flag to convey exactly what's happening.

If we all agree that the most useful values are "how many are still left to be saved?" and "how many have I saved in total?", with the former being most important before SR is met and the latter being most important after SR is met, we can do 'count down until 0, switch to total' and change the panel hint from 'TO SAVE' to 'SAVED'. This, along with the Exit checkmark and the change of colour, is clear, simple, uncluttered, and doesn't require an option.

Let's try it this way first, and if people still want to show "+ Extra Saved" then we can add that in later.

[Guigui]

Sounds nice, let's go with the EDIT 2 then !

You can be sure I'll try the new RCE and give my thoughts on the new settings and colors ... and may be the first one to ask for + Extra Saved