kaywhyn's L2 Playthrough, Full Gold

[kaywhyn]

Hello,

Over the last few weeks, I've recently played through and completed Lemmings 2 again after so long. Link to my playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbp2m4KlFpJsv0QLnAXBn3CwIMDbm-5Tl

This is my full gold medal playthrough of the Dos version of the game on Dosbox. Also, I figured outthe mixer master command to reduce the volume to a comfortable level so that the music wasn't blasting in my ears. I did 25:25 instead of 20:20, but this was still fine. I didn't realize that Simon and kieran documented this, but thanks for the tip!

I first played L2 back when I was a high schooler in the mid-2000s, when I was either a junior or senior. That time, I completed all 120 levels with the gold standard and hence got the "good ending." Since then, I've played and completed L2 at least once, with the last time before my most recent LP of it probably being sometime in the 2010s.

I must say, it felt really nice to play through L2 again after so long even if plenty of the levels caused me a lot of frustration due to the fiddly execution and/or I really overcomplicated the solutions While it isn't my top favorite Lemmings game of all time, it's not that bad of a game either. It's a semi-decent direct sequel to Lemmings despite there being so many more skills, most of which are redundant. I've forgotten so many of the levels, so it was really nice to see and play most of them again after so long.

Quite honestly, I really don't remember all those sacrifices you're allowed and still be able to get the gold standard for the levels. Yes, I know it's been proven that save all's are possible for all 120 levels, but I am not knowledgeable or patient enough to pull them off. After all, it did take more than 20 years to get the final save all's on a couple!

In any case, L2 is still worth checking out IMO. I did miss framestepping and rewinding while playing L2, but there hasn't been word from RavenNine regarding the L2Player for a while, and it currently seems far from complete. So, I had to play through the game on Dosbox. However, playing through L2 in way more recent times like how I did it does allow me to make comments such as "the jumper and slider being added to NL" and making comparisons of the L2 skills to NL.

One of the things I totally forgot about in L2 is the shimmier making a diagonal jump rather than a straight vertical jump like it does in NL. Similarly, there's no wall jumping while climbing in L2, just like Lix, but there is jumping from the ground to attach to the wall to climb. I do know about the vertical laser blaster of L2 being changed to a diagonal one in NL.

Another skill in L2 that acts similarly to Lix's is the platformer. However, I definitely got to see how much backroute power the skill has as a result of it adding height AND the fact you can platform anywhere, even on flat, smooth ground. Not sure if that is why NL's platformer was changed so that it doesn't do either one, though.

Eventually, I would like to play through both kieran millars' and Ste Woz Ere's L2 packs (link for latter's here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5664.0), but this likely won't be for a while. Am I prepared for them as a result of playing through the L2 base game after so long? Not necessarily, but I'm sure they did a great job showing off way more interactions of the L2 skills with one another! As a matter of fact, I started playing millar's L2 pack several years ago but didn't get too far with it. I stopped after only two levels, the last one being Shadow 2 but wasn't solved. I knew the idea there, I just didn't carry it through at the time.

I think what's in order here is a break from LPing before taking on Lemmings 3. As of summer 2021, the only official Lemmings games I haven't played or completed are L3 and Lemmings Paintball. I've completed all the other official Lemmings games, including Lemmings 3D, which I played for the first time back the summer of 2021. I'm not sure if I'll like L3 very much in the end, but I guess I'll see once I get into it!       

[Simon]

Well done!

Full gold is already finnicky.

platformer
backroute power the skill has as a result of it adding height AND the fact you can platform anywhere

Yes, platforming anywhere is powerful, and the bricks are thick, they gain 2 pixels of height. I'm still undecided if the NL platformer or the L2 platformer is better. If the L2 platformer is better for its versatility, Lix's platformer should really have been as thick as the L2 platformer.

Even more powerful is that the platformer enables geoo's crawling setup. Bash into a wall, cancel. Seal off the top of the basher hole with 1 or 2 platformers in such a way to leave a 1x1 hole that the lemmings can enter. When lemmings enter such a 1x1 hole, they crawl vertically through the terrain. Or make a wider hole, let the lemmings enter, then narrow/fill the hole with a platformer brick. Again, the lemmings will crawl.

The only skill that's even better for crawling is the roper.

kieran millars' and Ste Woz Ere's L2 packs

I'm sure you'll enjoy Kieran's and Ste's levels. Out of the two, I've only played Kieran's pack, and it shows previously unrealized puzzle potential in the 51 skills. It's harder than vanilla L2, but that's expected, and the full gold playthrough is ample preparation.

-- Simon

[kaywhyn]

@Simon

Thanks for splitting my post from the How to Play L2 on Dosbox topic and moving it to the Reviews board! 100% agree on the new title and thank you for the compliment on my playthrough! Indeed, I wasn't sure where to post my L2 playthrough, and for some reason it never occurred to me to make a new topic

Yes, I know how you and geoo did L2 speedruns with one another. Of course, there are some other L2 enthusiasts here, such as kieran millar, Ste Woz Ere, and Icho.

The only skill that's even better for crawling is the roper.

Indeed, I got this to work on Outdoor 5: https://youtu.be/j2v8NRevTLU?si=n7_J9RtoSOjhLyRc&t=1312. I think this is the first time I ever got it to work on any L2 playthrough. I have no idea why this happens, it took me by complete surprise!

Similarly, this crawling that happens for Polar 6 also took me by complete surprise! https://youtu.be/U5bqeyy4Xe8?si=H6MdCc17MD927oUm&t=1429

I'm more than happy to defer to you L2 experts who know far more about the L2 mechanics than me. Don't get me wrong, I've seen crawling happen before, most often after using the sand pourer skill.

Also, what is the maximum amount of pixels before a wall in L2 turns Lemmings around? It seems way less than the maximum of 6 pixels in the other official Lemmings games. In my L2 playthrough, I often found this highly irritating, where visually it looks like the Lemmings should be able to get over it just fine because it doesn't appear high enough to prevent them from slipping by. On the other hand, it does mean that it's much easier to contain the crowd in L2.

I'm sure you'll enjoy Kieran's and Ste's levels. Out of the two, I've only played Kieran's pack, and it shows previously unrealized puzzle potential in the 51 skills. It's harder than vanilla L2, but that's expected, and the full gold playthrough is ample preparation.

Thanks for your input! Indeed, my plan was to play through the base L2 game in preparation for taking on custom L2 packs later on down the line. In the same way, it was suggested to me to play through the base L3D game first before playing namida's LP3D pack, and that's exactly what I ended up doing: Played L3D for the first time summer 2021 just so I get a feel for the game, having never played it before, and then 2.5 years later near the end of 2023 I played LP3D. The base L2 game likely won't help much in terms of learning new L2 skill synergies since it doesn't really do much there for teaching players the various skill interactions, but still, some L2 exposure from the base game helps. The difference here is prior to my L2 LP, I've already played and completed L2 at least a few times.

Any recommendations on what tribe to start with for kieran's pack? Something tells me that my pick of Shadow is a poor choice for a first tribe, which probably explains why I didn't play much beyond two levels of the pack.   

[Ste Woz Ere]

In any case, L2 is still worth checking out IMO. I did miss framestepping and rewinding while playing L2, but there hasn't been word from RavenNine regarding the L2Player for a while, and it currently seems far from complete. So, I had to play through the game on Dosbox.

There is a version with savestates, the link to it is here. (I recommend it for playing both mine and Kieran's pack)

Eventually, I would like to play through both kieran millars' and Ste Woz Ere's L2 packs (link for latter's here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5664.0), but this likely won't be for a while. Am I prepared for them as a result of playing through the L2 base game after so long?

The difficulty change is big...the original was more about showing off the skills, as such there were not many "hard" levels like in L1. Most of the difficulty came from execution, the only one that sticks out puzzle-wise is Sports 10. (also tricky execution, but reliable once you've learned how to use the archer like that)

Both custom packs are what I would call "hardcore Lemmings 2" (for the difficulty) and "Lemmings 2 how it should've been" (for the theming). There are a LOT of skill combos and interactions that you don't see in the original game - Kieran's pack has lots of clever puzzles, and inspired me to do the same a few years later.  (there is soo much puzzle potential that was never explored in the original)
Execution is easier most of the time though, as the puzzle was the main focus in both packs.

Also, what is the maximum amount of pixels before a wall in L2 turns Lemmings around?

I believe it's 4 pixels, probably the biggest difference you'll notice when playing the Classic levels. (along with the builder offset when facing left)

I'm not sure if I'll like L3 very much in the end, but I guess I'll see once I get into it!

You'll definitely need the DOSBox with savestates for L3 (both the original and Kieran's pack), as the controls are so awkward due to the engine. An interesting take on the Lemmings format though.

[kaywhyn]

@Ste Woz Ere

Wow, a pleasure to finally meet you! Thanks so much for the advice and tips on kieran millar's and your custom L2 packs and L3 I'll make sure to use the Dosbox that has save states then. It definitely would had saved me a lot of frustration when I was playing through L2 recently

I'll be following up with a playthrough of L3 next, now that I'm done with my LP of the base L2 game I will likely start that in about a week or so.

Both custom packs are what I would call "hardcore Lemmings 2" (for the difficulty) and "Lemmings 2 how it should've been" (for the theming). There are a LOT of skill combos and interactions that you don't see in the original game - Kieran's pack has lots of clever puzzles, and inspired me to do the same a few years later.  (there is soo much puzzle potential that was never explored in the original)
Execution is easier most of the time though, as the puzzle was the main focus in both packs.

Ah, nice to know about the execution being easier most of the time for the custom L2 packs That was something I was worried about, given that custom packs tend to be many times harder than the official games, but I can rest easy there Even then, I much rather prefer the main difficulty comes from figuring out the puzzle and not the solution also being hard to pull off. Doesn't prevent myself from resorting to messy and overcomplicated solutions when I'm playing though, as I have a bad tendency to do that!