Holiday Lemmings 2024

[kaywhyn]

Thanks to @JawaJuice's post, looking back on this topic, I apparently still haven't posted my replays from the time I pre-tested the pack as well as my feedback from last year! Oops! Well, gonna change that now, as I have now gone back and resolved updated levels I backrouted before the pack's release. Also thanks to @Mobiethian for the reminder that a few days ago, on December 1, 2025, was the 1-year anniversary of the pack's release with collaborator Armani!

As way more than enough time has passed, I'm attaching my entire replay collection, which also includes new replays of levels where my pre-testing ones don't work anymore. In particular, I needed to resolve Night 1, Daytime 18, and Daytime 23. I remember Mobiethian made a change to his Night 1 level, but it's been a while, so I'm not sure what changed and caused my pre-testing solution to break. Daytime 7 also had an orange check mark, and it would had helped if I had actually ran a mass replay check on my replays instead of getting a new solve like I did, because my pre-testing solution still works So, in essence the only levels I really needed to resolve were Night 1 and the two levels of Armani's, Daytime 18 and Daytime 23.

General Feedback

Holiday Lemmings 2024 is a collab pack between Mobiethian and Armani. There are 2 ranks of 25 levels each, first the Night rank, followed by what should be the harder Daytime rank. The intention with this pack is to basically mark the 30th anniversary of the original Holiday Lemmings 1994 game. This is Mobiethian's third pack, after his Lemmings Heritage and Lemmings New Worlds, as well as his very first collaboration level pack with another Lemmings Forumer.

I had the honor of pre-testing all of the pack for the authors before they released the pack last year. There were others who did a bit of pre-testing but I believe, for the most part, the levels were beyond their level solving abilities. I was able to solve everything, albeit with a lot of struggling, especially with Armani's levels. Not so much with Mobiethian's, although there's even a few from him which are difficult nuts to crack. Most definitely a sign that Mobiethian has improved somewhat in his ability to make difficult levels, or at least shows he has potential for them to be hard if he knows how to In any case, it was an absolute pleasure to do the bulk of the testing, as well as to lend plenty of guidance to Mobiethian along the way!

Night Rank Feedback

As I sent all my feedback before the authors released the pack last year, I'm just going to copy/paste what I wrote to them. However, I apparently emailed Mobiethian my feedback, and it wasn't all the levels or too much on their solutions, so it's just going to be on Armani's levels for the most part  

Spoiler

Night 2 - Lems Are Playing Freeze Tag! Nice first level from you and not too hard, though I did make the mistake of building from left to right for the final gap instead of the other way around. It might still be a little difficult to be this early in the pack IMO, though I know that Mobiethian did a lot of the level ordering, so I'll make sure I bring this up with him. The only reason I think so is just simply due to everyone being a pre-assigned slider and so the main challenge is just coming up with ways to turn them back from going out the "wrong" way.

Night 3 - Choo Choo, Santa! The main difficulty comes from figuring out the most efficient way to get through the level, but it's not easy to because of the very limited skillset. I think it's clear that one needs to go over the top, but it's not easy to see how to use the skills efficiently here.

Night 4 - Christmas Tree Hunting The main difficulty comes from figuring out the solution. Here, I made the mistake of going through the tree instead of going over it, the one after the water gap. Doing it the second way seems to always leave you a skill short. Very nice red herring, but the level did feel like it's hard for its position.

Night 6 - Silent Night, Holy Night Another one that I didn't find too bad, though I found the final part of the level the hardest, but that's because I tried some incorrect things, such as making sure the gap is completely sealed off at ground level instead of the mining finishing a lot higher so that it's easier to reach the exit. Well done, I think this is the right difficulty for the rank despite the very restricted skillset.

Night 7 - Lighter Than a Snowflake This on the other hand IMO is too difficult for its position. The solution is quite obvious in that one needs to get a non-glider to the very far right in order to land at the bottom safely without dying to the fire trap, but how to achieve it is very hard. It's a very nice trick with jumping with a glider and then cloning him at the right spot in order get the stoners in place, but it's the hardest part of the level. It's also not easy to judge whether a non-glider is able to get to the next snowflake with jumping. So, this level definitely needs to move later in the rank, but I'll let Mobiethian know. You also have just the right amount of jumpers to do so and therefore cannot waste any of them at all.

Night 10 - Party Time! Very nice builderless level! Even then, it's still a little difficult to figure out the way through to the pickup and back. I did finish with some skills leftover, but my solution is likely still acceptable. This I feel is the right difficulty for the rank as well

Night 11 - 23:58:30 12/24 Nice title, being a reference to 1.5 minutes before Christmas Day and therefore the 1:30 time limit This was a really great level, I like it a lot The most clever part was having a worker on the far right flip all the splitters to allow another through in one smooth go. The hardest part to see here was where the digger needs to be used, as well as realizing that every Lemming goes to his own exit: Floater to the far left one, climber to the middle, and finally the regular one to the far right one. Also because I kept thinking the digger goes in the upper part of the level on the far right and that two need to use that exit I made the mistake of having one Lemming be both the floater and climber. Nice red herring! I love how everything falls into place once one realizes the solution. Well done!

Night 12 - Lost and Found Another nice level, though the hardest part was rescuing the shimmier that was stuck in an endless loop. I can definitely see similarities to David's Jasmine level from DavidLems here!

Night 13 - Claustrophobia 2 Aha, the sequel from your Xmas 2021 pack but with a very good use of the time limit! Very nice trick with leaving a step past a thin enough wall to have a worker land on it and build the rest of the bridge to catch the others from the other side. I managed to finish with just a second remaining, phew!

Night 15 - Happy New Year! Wow, great level from the both of you The hardest part was seeing the mining on the first 2 in order to rescue the one trapped at the bottom. That part is pretty precise, especially as you have to take care to make sure you don't leave a gap in the platformer bridge. There's a lot of wrong ideas that look like they can work but they don't. In particular, the hardest part was figuring out where you need to do the bridges and which ones you can afford to not use a constructive skill. I think the gap before the exit is a given that a constructive needs to go there. It was also not easy to figure out how to get the button where the water is, but I had more trouble figuring out how to get both to the exit with the 1-of-everything skillset provided. Well done, gentlemen!

Night 16 - All I Want For Christmas is... Not too hard of a level, though I incorrectly kept trying to fiddle around where the OWW is where the stomper trap is. I knew that we had to go through it, but what wasn't right was thinking that all the diggers go there. I did think about going through the huge water pond on the right side, but it took me a while to figure out that it was the correct way and how to get the swimmer out of there without also putting the non-swimmer in danger. It's quite easy to think the left Lemming needs to the swimmer instead of the one from the right. The correct way actually has the swimming digger go all the way to the very bottom instead of trying to interrupt him. As a result, this one might possibly be too hard for its position, but it's a bit more than halfway through the rank, so it might be fine.

Night 17 - Living in a Fairy Tale Seems open-ended, especially given that one can lose plenty here. Even then, it can still be difficult to work out the best way to go about the level, especially each section. In particular, there is a splat fall to deal with and just being able to get the right entrance over to the left. I think I could had been more efficient with the middle part by stoning higher so that one only needs to platform, though maybe then I would be wasteful with them if they're needed elsewhere. Even then, I think the builders/platformers are interchangeable for the most part. Just the right difficulty as well IMO.

Night 23 - Moondance Another great level that I was impressed with. I saw the solution almost right away, and it's really nice how it all comes together timing-wise. Nice trick with shooting a laser and interrupting the climber basher who frees the top entrance!

Night 25 - The Bear Necessities Nice level to finish off the rank. This was a bit hard to figure out, but I expected that. I managed to save a digger, so I don't know if that's a backroute or if I was simply efficient here. I think it just depends on how one does the building at the start so that it determines whether two or three slip on by. Thinking of how to contain the crowd and releasing them later is not easy!

Daytime Rank Feedback

Intended to be the harder rank of the pack, though this seems a bit questionable since it sounds like from what both Guigui and JawaJuice have stated that the Night rank is just as hard or even feels a bit harder in some places. Same thing, most of the feedback I'm copying/pasting is on Armani's levels. Daytime 18 and Daytime 23 should both be intended now and if so great levels!

Spoiler

Daytime 1 - Walking Bearfoot in the Snow Very nice level to start the rank! That's super clever with having one Lemming jump into the ice machine trap so that the swimmer/disarmer doesn't die to it. Before I had figured that out, I had all the level figured out except how to get a Lemming in position to platform the water gap, which can only be done from the right side. I remember the solution came to me as I went out to get some late night fast food with the jumping into the ice machine so the worker survives That trick alone IMO makes the level difficult to be the first one for the rank, but IIRC the remaining ones for the rank are all harder, and so this one is probably fine where it is.

Daytime 2 - Wake Me Up When It's Christmas Open-ended and just the right difficulty and hence it seems fine for the second level of the rank.

Daytime 4 - Angels We Have Heard On High Another nice one from the both of you. It's a bit hard to figure out how to bridge the gaps, though once I tried a builder for the first one and saw that one isn't enough, then the solution became a lot clearer. For example, for the tip of the iceberg that immediately screams out land there with a glider by cloning it and then build/clone, and therefore stack and then clone a platformer for the first gap. The hardest part then was the middle part, as I thought fencing would work but it wouldn't since he would stop before getting through the last part of the next wall, but I saw that I have a digger to spare and hence it was clear to me that you're supposed to dig and then fence. That part is pretty precise, though. It's obvious that it needs to be that, since a laser stops way before the second wall.

Daytime 6 - Skating on Thin Ice Wow, another great level! I especially love that trick of bashing with one and the next Lemming goes on ahead to platform to turn around and then the basher cuts off the platformer bridge to allow the one that turned around to fall before the snowman I had figured that out somewhat fairly quick, but then the hardest part was seeing the platforming and then stopping him with a basher before he seals the gap off in order to punch a hole in the wall so that he can climb into it and bash again. Might be a bit hard for its position due to these tricks, but I think it might be fine.

Daytime 8 - Fluffy Snow vs Rock Hard Ice Another great level! It was very hard to figure out how to do the building over the water gap in the bottom middle. I kept thinking that the worker needs to be the one to do both sides and also the gap before the exit, but turns out that after you release the crowd you have more than enough time to build from the left and the final gap before you lose too many thanks to very low RR. That was really hard to see, and before I realized the solution I thought I had the solution but then realized I'm probably not using the shimmiers properly. It was also hard to see building over the water gap on the left side, as I kept thinking to use shimmiers there due to the terrain setup Also needing to bash through the OWW on the right caused me to keep overthinking the solution It's another one that might be difficult for its position as well.

Daytime 9 - Amphibious Operations I was quite impressed here as well! This one really reminds me of the Prerequisite level from Xmas 2021, which I nominated IIRC It was clear where the cloner needs to be used in order to get the rest of them out of the water pit near the top right. I have two solutions, where the miner hits the steel to turn and then digs but luckily everyone makes it out before the wall becomes too high. I didn't realize that you can scoot the miner over a little and the swimmers would still be able to get out of the water pit. I especially love the lasering from the bottom right in order to release the crowd. Before I realized this, I kept thinking to dig and then either fencer or laser out, but then this causes everyone to fall and splat later. The fencer at the start is a bit precise, especially as it almost nearly doesn't release the crowd. I do like how the disarmer turns around before all the crowd does so that you can bomb the final swimmer in the bottom middle to allow the clone disarmer through.

Daytime 14 - Sky Shield Hard one, especially with figuring out how to release the crowd and whether you're supposed to keep the crowd moving or can contain them. Also if the latter then if you release with either the basher or bomber. I did realize the middle part with getting a shimmier through, but this was also the hardest part to see with bombing it in order to allow the slider to shimmy through. I kept thinking you needed two shimmiers here, but then I would run out or the slider slides down the stack instead of going over like I want him to in order to make another round on the right side. I especially love the timing here of the slider and climber and they do work separately on the right and left sides, respectively, in order to help the crowd later. It was very satisfying seeing the solution all come together Would the title here be a reference to SC2: Legacy of the Void? I remember that one was a pretty fun mission.

Daytime 18 - INside OUT Nice level. Here it was very hard to see what the glider is used for. Here it's quite important to figure out when to platform up the gaps, as doing it in the wrong order will cause you to fail. It was also clear that one needs to mine at the top of the huge wall in the middle first, as otherwise the crowd has no way to get to the exit later. All the complications come from platforming up the gap on the top right first because I was wondering how would you platform the gap at the bottom right first before releasing the crowd.

Revised feedback since this needed to be resolved: Took me a while to see that the water at the top is important so that the crowd can still walk to the exit later. This should be intended now and if so great level! Definitely had a hard time working out how to get around the issues that arise when making the tunnels in the huge middle structure. 

Daytime 20 - Watch Your Step! Another one which appears to have been inspired by that level of David's from DavidLems with collecting the right pickups. Even then, it was pretty hard to figure out the solution. Before I realized the correct way, I kept thinking to release everyone to the bottom right, but the problem is more gaps than you have skills to have all of it covered. I think once I realized stoning at the top to keep a basher going the solution was a bit clearer. That was really clever with putting a blocker at the far left to bounce the miner despite the small gap. I kept thinking that it needed to be timed so that the blocker blocks in front of the miner as he's going. The mining is really precise, though. I like how other the corner ones which are complete red herring pickups all need to be collected except for the slider in the top left and the two pickups over the water on the left side.

Daytime 22 - Warm Cozy Basement This one wasn't too bad at all, though how to contain the crowd and where the building needs to be done were not easy to figure out. I think I could had made the timing less tight if I had the released the crowd at the right time better. I have a shimmier to spare, but this seems to be acceptable, as I was probably simply efficient. Nice level.

Daytime 23 - Constructus Interruptus As you mentioned, this is the hardest level of the pack, and I would agree with you here. The closest I came to a working solution but it failing was due to me wanting to get a builder to release the crowd from the right side by finishing at a point so they can get over the stack. After seeing all possible positions, I kept wondering how to do the level as it seems that I needed to rethink my approach. I saw that a fencer is able to cut off the platformer bridge, but the problem here is that getting him in the middle of the level the fencer finishes too far away from the platformer bridge is. Also, I kept thinking he would need the help of a stacker to reach it, but I saw he always stops before he gets close to it no matter how the stacker is placed. When I saw that a platformer does allow a Lemming through with a one-pixel gap, I thought hmm, perhaps I can time this in such a way so that I can stack with a Lemming before the platformer lays one final brick to be one pixel away from closing off the gap and have one Lemming get through. It was also very hard to see that one needs to go through the water gap at the very top and fence through the trees to get the upper entrance down. I kept thinking that it has to be the case of bashing/cloning at the bottom middle to release the bottom entrance and to reach the exit, but what I couldn't phantom was the far right with closing off the gap with two constructives, one which needs to be a platformer, but then I wouldn't have a platformer to get over to the middle part because I used a platformer at the top. A lot of very appealing red herrings here makes for a very hard level.

Overall, this is a great level, just with too much precision, though if this is intended then yea, no way to avoid the trick platforming and stacking to stop the platform and then be able to build to get over the stack without the stack closing off the gap completely. However, the precision with fencing through the trees can be reduced easily, as there are some holes that can stop the fencer.

Revised feedback due to needing to be resolved: The clicking moment came to me when I remembered a Lemmings Uncharted level which required the building in such a way to release the crowd over the stack from the other side. Nice! Also helps that you released a contest level in the previous LDC which required something similar with interrupting constructive skills. So really, the level title is kind of a big hint to the solution even though you told me it's a reference to Team Fortress Overall, an excellent level with a hard to find solution but can still be worked out logically!  

Daytime 24 - Where Angels Dwell Definitely not as hard as the previous level but still difficult. I can definitely see inspiration from my level "Snow Way!" here with the first icicle trap I kept thinking that two workers need to simultaneously build over the water gap in the middle, when in fact only one worker needs to do it. It was also hard to see where to put the blockers and the route to take through the small rings and terrain at the bottom. I really like the fencing at the end with the crowd going under and to the right to get redirected by a blocker to then use the 3 builders to reach the exit. Before I saw this, I kept thinking to go through and over, but in fact there is a tiny wall that doesn't allow you through, no matter how you use a bomber. Great level and very nice design!

Daytime 25 - And They Lived Happily Ever After I literally LOLed at the part where a lot of the neutrals and Lemmings make the heart and HAPPY XMAS text just fall and drown in the water at the start That's really clever and neat, though A very nice conclusion to a wonderfully made pack by the both of you. It took me about 5 mins to realize that it needs to be a very long basher through by putting a platformer at the right spot to extend it. A nice level with a few surplus skills.

All rightie, in the coming weeks I'll get on doing a video series covering the pack with my commentary when running my replays on them. That I been meaning to do for a long time, just haven't gotten around to doing it yet

This was a pack I started playing back in July, but gave up on Armani's levels quite quickly, only completing Mobiethian's. Having recently played and solved quite a few of Armani's levels from the Random Level Sharing topic and the upcoming LDC #33, I realized he's not so scary In fact, I like his levels a lot! So, I thought with the festive season on the horizon, this would be the perfect time to dive back into the pack!

In my experiences, I generally tend to struggle with Armani's levels more than Icho's, and that's saying a lot! However, I'm in agreement with the former's levels being great for the most part!

Firstly, if I were to assign a difficulty level to this pack, I'd probably go with Medium. Alternatively, it could be Easy-Hard as it runs the gamut. The difficulty curve is kind of all over the place, and the Daytime rank is only slightly harder than the Night rank overall. Medium seems like a good median though. What @Guigui said is 100% accurate:

The actual pattern I found for the difficulty in your Holiday Lemmings 2024 pack is rather simple :
* created by Mobiethian : fair difficulty, have fun. I loved the living-room themed levels, with the trap-cat
* created by Armani : get prepared for brain burning.

I'm in agreement with you on Easy - Hard being the most accurate difficulty classification for the pack, with the upper range possibly even inching into Very Hard, but it's pretty close IMO. You are correct that the difficulty curve is currently very wonky, but let me tell you why. Mobiethian did all the level ordering before the pack's release and hence it was very hard for him to place a lot of these levels. For example, I currently say Night 7 is too difficult for its position, and even Armani agrees here, being his level and all. Similarly, Night 4, one of Mobiethian's levels, I think is also too hard for its position.

I was able to solve the whole pack without hints with three exceptions: All I want For Christmas Is..., Sky Shield and Constructus Interruptus. These I will go ahead and say are the hardest levels of the pack imo. The first two I was 95% of the way there and just needed a final push, courtesy of Armani. The latter, I had the right idea but I think an action to do near the end is so critical, it's more than a 5% thing. It never would have occurred to me without Armani's hint. INside OUT I also struggled with, but that was just me being stupid and the solution was obvious coming at it afresh the next day.

Wow, that's still pretty good with how much of the pack you were able to solve before you needed hints for the final push towards the solution! Yea, I agree with you on the 3 levels of Armani's you mentioned above, as they were also the hardest ones for me. I was able to solve them without hints after a lot of struggling, though with a backroute for Constructus Interruptus as already mentioned Also agree with INside OUT being a hard one, though I also solved that one with a backroute when I pre-tested the pack for the authors.

Indeed, you're definitely seeing that the best way to get better at level solving is to simply play a lot of custom levels. Don't worry, even I struggled and had so many roadblocks when I first started playing NL back near the final quarter of 2019. It didn't help that I immediately dove into Lemmings United as my very first NL level pack to play! To be fair, I felt like I was prepared to take it on, after having beaten DoveLems, PimoLems, and Lemmings Reunion on Lemmini, as well as SubLems on SuperLemmini Nope, took me an entire year to solve all of United while also getting whooped in the behind very badly!

The Lem is Home Alone! - Another joint effort that required a pretty long solve time!

Just to be clear, I had absolutely no part in making the level I was simply credited because I gave Mobiethian the idea to put zombies in the level to have them be Harry and Marv from the Home Alone movies chasing the Lemming (Kevin) around    

[JawaJuice]

@kaywhyn Interesting reading your notes - I'm guessing neither of us have the time to look at all of each other's replays, but it sounds like we came up with similar solutions for most levels and quite different ones for a few! In particular, if you had a digger left over, I'm guessing we must have hit on exactly the same solution for The Bear Necessities. 

EDIT: I checked your replay for this level and indeed, your solution is identical. Also checked a few other levels and again, identical solutions, so I'm guessing there actually isn't much chance of backrouting these levels and the intended solution is pretty much the only solution.

In my experiences, I generally tend to struggle with Armani's levels more than Icho's, and that's saying a lot! However, I'm in agreement with the former's levels being great for the most part!

Yeah, it's the opposite for me. I might struggle more with some of Armani's earlier stuff, like Uncharted, but my his own admission, he used to use more obscure tricks back then. Now, he says he prefers to focus on problem-solving. I dig Icho's level design and I did finish Reunion (a very enjoyable pack!), but I think - perhaps - I'm more on Armani's wavelength in terms of how he designs his puzzles than Icho. That's a personal thing and everyone will have authors they click with more than others. I actually find Crane's levels harder than either, based on my experiences play-testing LDC 33 and also participating in the Levels by Crane topic.

I'm in agreement with you on Easy - Hard being the most accurate difficulty classification for the pack, with the upper range possibly even inching into Very Hard, but it's pretty close IMO. You are correct that the difficulty curve is currently very wonky, but let me tell you why. Mobiethian did all the level ordering before the pack's release and hence it was very hard for him to place a lot of these levels. For example, I currently say Night 7 is too difficult for its position, and even Armani agrees here, being his level and all. Similarly, Night 4, one of Mobiethian's levels, I think is also too hard for its position.

OK, that makes sense. I think that makes three of us in agreement that Night 7 is too hard for its position in the rank. As I say, it's the one that originally caused me to give up on trying to solve Armani's levels in the pack and even coming back to it with a lot more experience under my belt and better solving chops, it was still far from a doddle!

Indeed, you're definitely seeing that the best way to get better at level solving is to simply play a lot of custom levels. Don't worry, even I struggled and had so many roadblocks when I first started playing NL back near the final quarter of 2019. It didn't help that I immediately dove into Lemmings United as my very first NL level pack to play! To be fair, I felt like I was prepared to take it on, after having beaten DoveLems, PimoLems, and Lemmings Reunion on Lemmini, as well as SubLems on SuperLemmini Nope, took me an entire year to solve all of United while also getting whooped in the behind very badly!

I think I've mentioned before, maybe on my first post on the forum, that I have a long history with Lemmings. I picked up the original release on the Atari ST back in '91 or '92. Like you, I started playing NL in 2019. Unlike you, I didn't really test myself  - I just focused on completing easier packs. You're right; it's only by playing a lot of custom levels and actually testing yourself against the hardest stuff out there that you will improve as a solver, learning tricks of the trade along the way. I plateaued for a long time and it's only actually in the last 6 months or so, where I've focused on NL quite intently, that I've seen my solving ability really kick into higher gears, but there's still a ways to go