Author Topic: Eye of the Needle  (Read 950 times)

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Offline Forestidia86

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Eye of the Needle
« on: November 27, 2023, 07:14:31 PM »
Edit Simon 2024-02-05: Split off Simon streams Lix, 2023-11-26

Quote from: Simon
I solved mobius's Eye of the Needle -- two lovely ideas, excellent puzzle!

For Eye of the Needle, your solution differs from the intended one quite significantly. Removing the feature that Simon exploited on the left, or bumping up the requirement to 8/10 (at the cost of slightly trickier execution) could work here.

Removing the terrain piece wouldn't prevent the core of Simon's solution.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have attached a solution which saves 8/10 and is very well doable timingwise. It has a variation to the replay of the collection though.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2024, 08:26:16 PM by Simon »

Offline mobius

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2023, 02:20:53 AM »
I was sadly too busy that day to watch. I'll have it a look over soon.

I'll wait until I watch Simon's replay to comment but having designed Eye of the Needle but finding the solution to be quite precise and fiddly, I'll likely be open to other solutions or variants, but we'll see.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline mobius

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2023, 04:44:47 PM »
Ill let it up to someone else to decide about Eye of the Needle. Im okay with leaving it as is, Simon seemd to enjoy the level so thats important to me.

But to remove those routes simply;

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 25, 2023, 12:21:41 AM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Simon

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2024, 08:33:40 PM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

See attachment for how Eye of the Needle would then look.

But now, it will be even easier to turn a worker near the exit. In Lix, when you're walking on steel, you can be assigned miner without further preparation and immediately turn.

Second attachment: An exit platform that is too thin to turn with mining, even if you cancel the miner with a platformer. Is that better?

-- Simon
« Last Edit: February 05, 2024, 09:06:32 PM by Simon »

Offline Proxima

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2024, 10:16:12 PM »
geoo's suggestion was to require saving 1 more, leaving all else unchanged. I haven't had a second look to check if this works.

Offline mobius

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2024, 03:50:22 PM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

See attachment for how Eye of the Needle would then look.

But now, it will be even easier to turn a worker near the exit. In Lix, when you're walking on steel, you can be assigned miner without further preparation and immediately turn.

Second attachment: An exit platform that is too thin to turn with mining, even if you cancel the miner with a platformer. Is that better?

-- Simon

:forehead: I forgot turning on steel worked in Lix. Good thing I'm not actively doing this myself anymore. Second attachment should be fine. Off the top of my head I don't know how saving 1 more is possibly without changing the solution.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Simon

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2024, 07:24:14 PM »
For 0.10.20, I'll use the version with the thin horizontal exit platform. It's horizontally shorter than the 0.10.19 Eye of the Needle. Forestidia covered the fix with Proxima's 2017 solution.

Reason: geoo worries about ease of execution for 8/10, and mobius approved this thinner platform.

Proxima, if you eventually disagree, we can change it later.

-- Simon

Offline Proxima

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2024, 05:52:01 AM »
Sorry to have taken so long to follow this up. Here's a replay showing how 8/10 can be saved with a variation of the intended solution.

The variation in question:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If the terrain fix works, then we can leave it, but this solution is here if we need to refer to it later 8-)

EDIT: Had a look at Forestidia's solution (first post of this topic). This might be preventable by making the first wall thicker; I'll have to look into this another time.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 06:04:40 AM by Proxima »

Offline mobius

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2024, 01:27:26 AM »
I should've been more clear and commented specifically on Foristedia's old replay; and the same goes for the one Proxima just uploaded:

These are acceptable alternatives to the main solution. They are essentially the same solution really, just places certain parts in different places and cutting a few corners but generally speaking the tricks are the same. I'd prefer to keep them in. Saving one more doesn't matter. Simon's solution however was different and we already fixed that, it looks like the next version will have the the thin horizontal exit platform. So atm the level should be good. :thumbsup:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Proxima

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2024, 01:29:48 AM »
Okay. Since you've viewed the replays and are happy, I'm happy to call this closed.

Offline Simon

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Re: Eye of the Needle
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2024, 01:39:56 AM »
Cool! Thanks to all of you for the feedback.

-- Simon