Author Topic: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12  (Read 11158 times)

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Offline Simon

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Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« on: December 08, 2022, 07:53:16 PM »
Ramond's list of episodes down here in this thread.

All video are preserved for 14 days on his main stream page:
https://www.twitch.tv/paramondox

-- Simon
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 02:29:58 AM by Simon »

Offline Simon

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Re: Ramond is streaming Lix lemforum
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2022, 09:02:25 PM »
Blocked by a Snowball, Climb to Freedom: Two snow levels, they look similar to each other on first sight, and they're immediate successors. Let's consider to separate them.

Beneath the Lab: Rank slightly higher. You can't do much, but it's a trick nonetheless.

Ferry Tale:
1. Rank at least into Quirky. Nontrivial, and invites wrong solutions. Quote Ramond: "What is this doing in the first rank?"
2. Fix the backroute where you cluster the lix and bat them with the landing floater. This saves 8/10. Can we do clearer than merely raising the save requirement to 9/10?

You'll Get Over It: The second-hardest in Lovely. Probably okay where it is.

Road Goes Ever On: First tree's branch doesn't catch falling lix, but only barely. Make it clearer.

One song (which? Will fish it from the 5 in-level tracks) sounds like it loops/restards wrongly in the beginning.

Can't Reach It: Uprank at least slightly.

Box Set: Ramond didn't attempt it near the end of the stream, felt out of energy, and this looked precise. It's not hard in theory, but it's fidgety to solve without insert-into-replay, and Lix doesn't support that yet. Candidate for slight upranking if we need another one.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 11:51:21 PM by Simon »

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2022, 11:45:07 PM »
nice! I didn't know Ramond was German. I don't have time to watch all of that now or maybe ever. Please let me know if any major issues are seen.

He solved "Slaughterhouse" in a sligthly unintended way... I might do something about that.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2022, 02:29:16 AM »
I've fixed the "trolling" tree branch in The Road Goes Ever On, and its repeats Any Way You Want and Just Stop the Bleeding.

The bug was: In The Road Goes Ever On, The first tree's branch didn't catch falling lix that went over that tree. The lix looked like they would land on that tree branch, but the lix fell by ever so barely.

Moved the branch further right by 4 pixels and up by 2 pixels, and z-ordered it into the background. Now, the branch catches the lix and you can build from it.

Earmarked for 0.10.2.

mobius, yep, Slaughterhouse is a slight backroute. I'll take any fix you send me.

So happy with all the Lix work these days. We had three singleplayer streams: darkshoxx's, mine, and now Ramond's. When I'm not busy at my day job or sleeping, I'm working on these long-standing Lix singleplayer issues that everybody exposed. Delightful.

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Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2022, 03:55:45 AM »
thanks. Well I lied and ended up watching most of that, even if I can't understand most of what he's saying I've spotted some issues I'll post in the coming days.

Can't Reach It: I don't know why that level's so difficult.... it looks really simple; it *is* really simple once you solve it... yet it took me forever..
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline Simon

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2022, 12:33:57 AM »
Can't Reach It (click to show/hide)

From IRC earlier today:

15:04 <Ramond__> last stream i sat 30 mins on Snowjump and couldn't wrap my head around it before I moved on
15:04 <Ramond__> now I went into the level and 5 seconds in i try something new and it is the solution
15:04 <Ramond__> the brain works in mysterious ways

16:32 <Ramond__> and Watch Ye Step! in Cunning is definitely underranked
16:33 <Ramond__> while I didn't take much too long to figure it out, I was totally lost in the beginning and the solution is very clever, sort of hard to come up with it

-- Simon
« Last Edit: December 11, 2022, 02:50:22 AM by Simon »

Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2022, 01:50:26 PM »
Oh nice, didn't realize you posted about my playthrough in here. Thanks, Simon!

I have had 3 on-stream Lix sessions so far, and I have also highlighted them now so they won't expire.

Episode 1: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1676239466 --- All of Lovely and Quirky, except Quirky 32 (Box Set)
Episode 2: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1676239560 --- Quirky 32 (Box Set) and Cunning 1-12
Episode 3: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1676239662 --- Cunning 11 + Cunning 13-26
Episode 4: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1679143789 --- Cunning 27-40 + Daunting 1-6
Episode 5: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1679986898 --- Daunting 7-24
Episode 6: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1682701909 --- Daunting 25-34
Episode 7: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1682702085 --- Daunting 35-40 + Daunting 18 (finally!) + Vicious 1-5
Episode 8: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1685074707 --- Vicious 6-21
Episode 9: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1698690404 --- Vicious 21-29
Episode 10: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1709098362 -- Vicious 23 + Vicious 30-40

I might just keep editing in the new episodes as they appear. Might take a while until the next episode.

The reason I didn't want to attempt Box Set is I remember the level layout thinking there were very precise skill placements to be made. But in hindsight I think I probably remembered the "hard" version of it, which will probably come later.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 01:34:47 PM by Ramon »

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2022, 02:27:52 AM »
I agree on Watch Ye Step. I was surprised when it was initially place that early in the game.

Also while watching Ramon play this one I noticed the annoytance of not getting the miner right; did you know you can use the replay tweaker; (F4 by default) to change skill assignments; you can nudge them left/right etc. this is a lot faster and really handy!

----
also awesome music you got in your stream :thumbsup: And I'm enjoying the streams; hope you're having fun with the pack!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2022, 02:54:14 AM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2022, 09:48:39 PM »
Just finished Episode 4: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1679143789 --- Cunning 27-40 + Daunting 1-6

The most obvious outlier to me was "Backslash", Daunting 5. It feels way too easy because there hardly is anything but the solution you can realistically attempt with the given skills anyway.
The second one is "Mice in the Pipeline", Cunning 38, which - while being a very cute level - is pretty simple to figure out and more an execution exercise than a brain teaser.

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2022, 12:32:15 AM »
Just finished Episode 4: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1679143789 --- Cunning 27-40 + Daunting 1-6

The most obvious outlier to me was "Backslash", Daunting 5. It feels way too easy because there hardly is anything but the solution you can realistically attempt with the given skills anyway.
The second one is "Mice in the Pipeline", Cunning 38, which - while being a very cute level - is pretty simple to figure out and more an execution exercise than a brain teaser.

I agree I think Backslash is good but could be much better if the solution was hidden within a larger/more elaborate layout.

oh and btw: brilliant solution to Tick Toxic! :lix-laugh: :thumbsup:
I recommend leaving that one in.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline Simon

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2022, 01:34:06 AM »
Thanks!

Mental Process: It's possible that your first attempts ran into airwalk, which I consider a bug but which has been forever in both Lix and Lemmings 1. Haven't come around to removing it so far.

outlier to me was "Backslash", Daunting 5. It feels way too easy because there hardly is anything but the solution you can realistically attempt with the given skills anyway.

I'd be happy downranking Backlash by, hmm, 0-50 levels. Yeah, the lack of red herrings helps.

Quote
"Mice in the Pipeline", Cunning 38, which - while being a very cute level - is pretty simple to figure out and more an execution exercise than a brain teaser.

With Mice, I'm not so sure.

Reason: (spoiler) (click to show/hide)

oh and btw: brilliant solution to Tick Toxic! :lix-laugh: :thumbsup:
I recommend leaving that one in.

Happy to leave it in, even though it's moderately far from the proof replay. If you want to find a different solution: Solve it with the proviso that the batter may hit at most half of the total lix in the level.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 01:58:58 AM by Simon »

Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2022, 09:04:14 PM »
Episode 5: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1679986898 --- Daunting 7-24

Did not solve mobius' "Lixes in Motion" (Daunting 18), will attempt it again next stream!

Most levels here feel good with their position in the pack. I don't think I had anything special or out of place happen this session.

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streamed lemforum Lovely-Quirky, 2022-12-08
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2022, 12:16:14 AM »
do you keep records or playlist of the music you used in your stream? In particular I'm curious about the second song that played; during Variety Day.

I just now noticed the marquee under the video! :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 16, 2022, 12:32:13 AM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2022, 09:01:25 PM »
Re: Lixes in Motion.

Let me know if you want hints.

Back then I didn't expect people to find this level this puzzling!
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2022, 09:53:53 PM »
Episode 6: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1682701909 --- Daunting 25-34
Episode 7: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1682702085 --- Daunting 35-40 + Daunting 18 (finally!) + Vicious 1-5

Yeah I finally had an epiphany and did it! :D Thanks for the offer though. It is easy to get on the wrong track and lose your thought process within.
Of these levels, there was just one I think felt out of place (too simple), which was Vicious 4 (Low Profile).

Offline Simon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2022, 04:35:38 AM »
Low Profile: I agree to downrank it. I'd argue that batter puzzles are rare enough to make it feel harder than it really is, and a moderate downrank is okay. Then it will rank how it feels, which I think is good, even though it could technically downrank more.

Lixes in Motion: Yes, a wonderful a-ha puzzle. Hard to see without hints, indeed. I'd be fine with upranking it.

Buy One Get One Free Part 2: You had fewer problems with it than I or Flopsy had with it. We consider to uprank it, and I think it still warrants some upranking even after your success.



After you've solved Lixes in Motion, you ran into github #428: Next-level cache should update after solving. The level cache behind the next-level dialog decided to show you Gomen Ne earlier during the same run as next unsolved. Until you restart Lix, that dialog will then keep believing that Gomen Ne is unsolved, and will present it again and again. Whenever you solve levels out of order without restarting Lix, you can run into this bug.

With all the singleplayer solving on stream, this bug has become more important. It's now common to have Lix running for several hours and solve levels out of order.

I'll look into this caching bug.

-- Simon
« Last Edit: December 19, 2022, 05:37:33 AM by Simon »

Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2022, 06:07:17 PM »
Buy One Get One Free Part 2: You had fewer problems with it than I or Flopsy had with it. We consider to uprank it, and I think it still warrants some upranking even after your success.

This is one level where I do need to mention I feel like my first community pack solve (was it around 2015? not sure) did help me with this, because
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Thus my solution process for this level definitely had bias. Indeed! Verily, I say... Ergo!

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2022, 02:15:11 AM »
I loved your solution to Diving Three by Two; which was much simpler than mine or Simon's solution. ...Don't know why I didn't see that thd day Simon was streaming..

In your streams I see music from "Madelein's World OST" I couldn't find that on youtube; what is that?

Great job on the pack so far! :thumbsup:
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2022, 09:10:59 AM »
In your streams I see music from "Madelein's World OST" I couldn't find that on youtube; what is that?

Glad you asked :D Madeleine's World is a private romhack for Super Mario World which I created, and with it I sequenced the complete soundtrack myself using the SNES music engine. It's a mix of original compositions, songs from bands I've played with and other internationally known pop songs or video game tracks. If you're interested in any of the tracks, I could link you the originals or even the soundtrack itself.

I'm on a great Lix roll - having a blast with solving the levels, and have yet to encounter another big stumper like Lixes in Motion! Maybe Changing of the Guards is going to be the one; I definitely remember that one being pretty hard for me in my first playthrough as well!

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2022, 02:07:33 PM »
In your streams I see music from "Madelein's World OST" I couldn't find that on youtube; what is that?

Glad you asked :D Madeleine's World is a private romhack for Super Mario World which I created, and with it I sequenced the complete soundtrack myself using the SNES music engine. It's a mix of original compositions, songs from bands I've played with and other internationally known pop songs or video game tracks. If you're interested in any of the tracks, I could link you the originals or even the soundtrack itself.

I'm on a great Lix roll - having a blast with solving the levels, and have yet to encounter another big stumper like Lixes in Motion! Maybe Changing of the Guards is going to be the one; I definitely remember that one being pretty hard for me in my first playthrough as well!

I would like that link; I liked what I heard there, great job! I may also have to try that SMW hack as long as its not too kaizo for my ability :lix-dead:

Great job on the lix pack as well; its no easy task!
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline geoo

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2022, 08:54:14 PM »
Glad you asked :D Madeleine's World is a private romhack for Super Mario World which I created, and with it I sequenced the complete soundtrack myself using the SNES music engine. It's a mix of original compositions, songs from bands I've played with and other internationally known pop songs or video game tracks. If you're interested in any of the tracks, I could link you the originals or even the soundtrack itself.
I was wondering the same, that song stood out to me but I couldn't find any information. Thought maybe it was a Celeste mod or something. Would be happy to have the soundtrack as well :)

Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2022, 03:32:01 PM »
Episode 8: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1685074707 --- Vicious 6-21

I realized the new release of Lix fixes a backroute of a level I played in the stream, which means I will probably need to go back to that level after the update to check my replay.

About the OST: I am considering to put it up officially somewhere, stay tuned for more information.

Offline geoo

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2022, 09:14:02 PM »
Managed to skim through the recordings. A few notes:


Stairs bro: Interesting alternative solution which I'd argue is trickier than the intended one.
Merge Sort: Interesting to see you struggle, and somehow finding a solution without fully understanding why it works. There's a key observation about merging (which I thought was obvious, but seeing different people struggle I guess it's not) which, once realized, makes it very clear where and when to place the miners.
Downpour: Used to have timed bombers, so I set the requirement low to make the level not too annoying. Now with instant bombers, it's quite trivial so maybe the save requirement could be raised a bit.
Impetus, Prelude, Lix Cannon: Look like backroutes?

I agree with your assessment that Lovely and Quirky contain some levels which seem too complex for the rank, and maybe it'd have been sensible to make these ranks a bit easier than their are overall. For example, Lovely could contain a few more levels with small skillsets that reinforce the behaviour of certain skills (like Beneath the Lab reinforces that builders turn while platformers do not).
Time to change the road: Used to have a time limit, enforcing a specific idea. Now it's easier, so I think it could be moved down to Lovely. (Could also fix it enforce my initial idea, but in line with the assessment above I'd also support the simple downrank).
100 ways to die: Should this maybe go into Lovely as well?


Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2022, 04:34:23 PM »
Time to change the road: Used to have a time limit, enforcing a specific idea. Now it's easier, so I think it could be moved down to Lovely. (Could also fix it enforce my initial idea, but in line with the assessment above I'd also support the simple downrank).
100 ways to die: Should this maybe go into Lovely as well?

100 ways to die: Hard to assess as an experienced player. I re-solved it quite fast, could be different for a new player. But downranking seems ok.

Time to change the road: I actually struggled to re-solve this though there exists an easy solution. I think I solved it close to geoo's original idea (the more difficult way) -
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline chaos_defrost

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2023, 02:03:57 AM »
Heh, I said I wouldn't really ask for many backroute fixes to my levels, but Wait Why Is There A Tree is far enough from intended to where I'd call it one.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fortunately I think the fix is pretty easy:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice work finding it, though! Also, terrific job solving so far! Looking forward to the future vids (especially Hopeless)!
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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2023, 04:26:52 PM »
Thanks! You created some of the most memorable levels from the lemforum pack for me personally, especially the slapstick level names but also the unique puzzle style. Each time I reach a new Insane Steve level on stream I smile in jolly anticipation and mention it.

To reiterate, I have solved all but 2 levels of the lemforum pack back in 2015, but I don't really remember the solutions. They might still be lingering in my subconscious though, so part of my success could possibly be attributed to that.

Episode 9 is out, by the way! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1698690404 - Vicious 21-29
« Last Edit: January 06, 2023, 04:33:58 PM by Ramon »

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2023, 07:04:36 PM »
Managed to skim through the recordings. A few notes:


Stairs bro: Interesting alternative solution which I'd argue is trickier than the intended one.
Merge Sort: Interesting to see you struggle, and somehow finding a solution without fully understanding why it works. There's a key observation about merging (which I thought was obvious, but seeing different people struggle I guess it's not) which, once realized, makes it very clear where and when to place the miners.
Downpour: Used to have timed bombers, so I set the requirement low to make the level not too annoying. Now with instant bombers, it's quite trivial so maybe the save requirement could be raised a bit.
Impetus, Prelude, Lix Cannon: Look like backroutes?

regarding Lix Cannon;
I think the video is past 14 days, I can't find it anymore, could you describe his solution?  I don't remember seeing anything that felt extremely backrouty; just a slight difference in placement of 1 skill but the same general idea is realized, I think. (If memory serves). Don't know offhand how to fix this anyway.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
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Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2023, 09:03:30 PM »
I think the video is past 14 days, I can't find it anymore, could you describe his solution?  I don't remember seeing anything that felt extremely backrouty; just a slight difference in placement of 1 skill but the same general idea is realized, I think. (If memory serves). Don't know offhand how to fix this anyway.

Here's a direct link to the start of Lix Cannon: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1676239560?t=00h38m06s

I highlight all my vods so they should be permanent; you can find all the links in my first post of this thread.

Offline mobius

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2023, 11:49:38 PM »
I think the video is past 14 days, I can't find it anymore, could you describe his solution?  I don't remember seeing anything that felt extremely backrouty; just a slight difference in placement of 1 skill but the same general idea is realized, I think. (If memory serves). Don't know offhand how to fix this anyway.

Here's a direct link to the start of Lix Cannon: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1676239560?t=00h38m06s

I highlight all my vods so they should be permanent; you can find all the links in my first post of this thread.

ah thanks! Yes; as I said, imho I don't see a huge difference. Actually considering the original (which has no cuber but a blocker and digger) this solution is closer to what's done there.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

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Offline Ramon

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Re: Ramond streams lemforum, 2022-12
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2023, 01:36:41 PM »
Episode 10 is up: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1709098362 -- Vicious 23 + Vicious 30-40

I felt like I made good progress here, though I actually had a little help from chat with fresh ideas and perspectives. One or two levels felt backroute-y (especially Theresa). I will be going back to the fixed levels after going through the pack, I believe.