Author Topic: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels  (Read 24974 times)

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Offline geoo

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2020, 08:29:37 PM »
One-Lix Showdown -- This looks like a backroute, albeit a quite smart one. I'm attaching a modified version which (hopefully) eliminates this shortcut, in case you want to look for the intended solution (I don't think it's that much harder though).

Betcha Can't Save Just One
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Simon

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2020, 08:55:18 PM »
Earmarked for next release unless namida suggests something else. This One-Lix Showdown by geoo is already covered by Proxima's solution in the proof collection.

-- Simon

Offline mobius

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2020, 01:30:57 AM »
Thanks for all these detailed comments! It's nice to see someone having fun.

IMO that solution to Duality is really yucky. (I say that about any solution using builders like that). Putting a small saw half hidden under the steel block may work to fix it? Or readjusting the steel but I think that might effect the good solutions. Readjusting the terrain might have the same problem.

On Two for His Heels;
While I'm not great at giving hints here's an attempt;

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On Betcha Can't Save Just One:

In English (at least where I'm from) saying 'can't save just one' can be identical to 'can't save only one' or 'even one'. A lot of words are interchangeable like this. The original level (going back to Custlem) was meant to look difficult to save *even* one lemming,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 02:00:50 AM by mobius »
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline Wibble

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2020, 05:14:08 PM »
I agree that the solution to Duality is, shall we say, inelegant? And I've got a few more inelegant (imo) solutions below too!

Thanks for the hints for "FHH, will look back at that to see if I can finally solve it.

Dances With Lixes - Spotted what to do with this level fairly quickly, the bridging doesn't even need to be that precise as my solution shows. Bit of a breather!

Five For Fighting - One of those "easy if you know how" with few skills levels - my track record on these isn't great but I spotted this one quickly enough.

This is a Stickup - An inelegant solution, I like the level in principle (must admit it felt in style like an Insane Steve level but isn't).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Gr8 Escape - Stuck on this one. My best attempt has I think 35 saved, can't see how to do all.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Trapeze of Weird Blue Blocks - Took ages and this solution is not very elegant making me think it may not be intended
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Toccata - Now there's some familiar graphics - 2 favourite childhood games merged into 1! The only things that made me take a while on this was
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's now as many levels as I have solved, so Two for His Heels, Changing of the Guard, and Gr8 Escape are the 3 I am stuck on for now. I will see if I can solve the first using the given hints. Back at work soon so won't have as much time, that plus the levels getting harder will make this slower progress.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2020, 06:45:24 PM by Wibble »

Offline Wibble

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2020, 07:04:43 PM »
Finally! Good puzzle overall, I should have seen that solution more quickly.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Simon

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2020, 08:23:10 PM »
Back at work soon so won't have as much time, that plus the levels getting harder will make this slower progress.

It's all good. You've been plowing through lemforum at amazing pace, and are giving quality feedback. Many thanks already!

Proxima prefers easier levels at start of rank n than at finish of rank n − 1, and Proxima prefers varying looks/tilesets among consecutive levels. Thus, there is taste to the sorting of lemforum, it's not purely a strict ordering.

Interesting that Changing of the Guards is so hard and a candidate for upranking. I believe I've never solved it either.

-- Simon

Offline geoo

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2020, 08:39:47 PM »
Earmarked for next release unless namida suggests something else. This One-Lix Showdown by geoo is already covered by Proxima's solution in the proof collection.
I would consider waiting for Wibble to give the update a try, and/or Proxima's approval, as this was just a quick-fix which I didn't test thoroughly (same for the other two fixes I posted in this thread). I think Duality also warrants a fix.

This is a Stickup -- I think there are a very different solutions, but I haven't found any that I'd consider elegant.

Trapeze of Weird Blue Blocks
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Changing of the Guards -- This is another one which seems impossible at first but once you know you wonder why you didn't think of that. :) I made a follow-up "All aboard the Pain Train" which I placed later in Vicious, but I'm curious how you feel about the placement as I don't think I got any feedback on whether it belongs in late Vicious (iirc it gave Proxima troubles).

The Gr8 Escape -- Funnily enough, I remember this being one of the earlier solves for me of tseug's 10-level Lemmix pack. Goes to show how insanely hard his levels are...

Offline Wibble

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2020, 07:54:44 PM »
Update on Changing of the Guard - I am now at 4 out of 10 as opposed to 1 from before.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
. No idea how to get that 5th one though. I did notice there is a thread on this level and read it but do want to complete it the proper way. I honestly would not of thought of that backroutish method mentioned though!

I'm no further at all on Gr8 Escape. Even when I complete it I will still have a bit of a thing about that use of the number in the title. ;)

Thomas the Climber - Slight breather compared to most. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Buridan's Lix - Not a clue for either exit. Best attempt is there, saving a mere 6. I can also see how to complete it if I had 1 more bridge, albeit saving all on the rhs for that. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm back to struggling big time on levels where there are only a few skills to allocate so theoretically the options to completion are fewer. Clever level in that it presents options a la Can't Even Save One so I'm sure I won't feel it is fully done until I can save through either sanctuary.

The Circular Ruins - A relatively quick one to solve, but a lot of rewinding and frame by frame needed for me. A bit like Now This is Fun in that I wonder if the puzzle elements could have been incorporated into a smaller level. That said, the sense of scale makes it feel a bit bigger when you do complete it. 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Merde, Merde, Merde! - I liked this level even though it took a good number of attempts. Whilst the allocation of the first skills is obvious, you then have a lot of different options, some of which looked to me good at first
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but don't work. The minimalist art style plus impossible look of the level appealed as I have mentioned for other levels earlier. However, I shudder to think what this would have been like on the old Archimedes version of Lemmings where you couldn't allocate actions when paused!

Alien Invasion - Another one I liked, it looked impossible at first
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but was good because it was a short level so each attempt didn't take long.

A Matter of Perspective - I'm 1 lix away, and can get to being 1 lix away using many slight variations on my method
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
. Only a few seconds out but I can't see how to optimise those.

Any level not completed but mentioned by name here is a level I have been struggling with for some time now, hints of even the vaguest nature would be appreciated. In terms of difficulty level I'd say the rankings are pretty accurate so far (that said, there are a couple towards the end of vicious that I solved very quickly, namely Triangle Inequality which feels more like Quirky rating, and 3.1.1.1).
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 06:43:02 PM by Wibble »

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2020, 09:55:10 PM »
In terms of difficulty level I'd say the rankings are pretty accurate so far (that said, there are a couple towards the end of vicious that I solved very quickly, namely Triangle Inequality which feels more like Quirky rating, and 3.1.1.1).

I agree that 3.1.1.1 felt easier than Vicious rank.

A Matter of Perspective - I'm 1 lix away, and can get to being 1 lix away using many slight variations on my method
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
. Only a few seconds out but I can't see how to optimise those.

Yeah needed long to get it solved as well, happened rather by accident.

Hint 1 (click to show/hide)
Hint 2 (click to show/hide)
Hint 3 (click to show/hide)
Hint 4 (click to show/hide)

Update on Changing of the Guard - I am now at 4 out of 10 as opposed to 1 from before.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
. No idea how to get that 5th one though.

Hint 1 (click to show/hide)
Hint 2 (click to show/hide)
Hint 3 (click to show/hide)
Hint 4 (click to show/hide)

I can give more hints if you need more, good success.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 10:49:43 PM by Forestidia86 »

Offline Wibble

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2020, 06:19:37 PM »
Thanks as always for the hints. Just realised I didn't attach my unsuccessful method for Changing of the Guard - all skills are used in there apart from the climber (if I assign one it won't save them anyway for that method).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

A Matter of Perspective is now done.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 04, 2020, 06:29:36 PM by Wibble »

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2020, 06:55:02 PM »
Thanks as always for the hints. Just realised I didn't attach my unsuccessful method for Changing of the Guard - all skills are used in there apart from the climber (if I assign one it won't save them anyway for that method).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you still can't find an approach after some thinking further hints:

Hint 5 (click to show/hide)
Hint 6 (click to show/hide)
Hint 7 (click to show/hide)
Hint 8 (click to show/hide)

Offline Wibble

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2020, 10:37:12 AM »
Couple more unsuccessful replays of Changing attached.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2020, 11:03:59 AM »
Hint 9 (click to show/hide)
Hint 10 (click to show/hide)

Offline Wibble

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2020, 07:32:25 PM »
Still on COTG -
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Offline Forestidia86

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Re: Wibble's thoughts on Lix Lemforum levels
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2020, 07:44:15 PM »
Concerning "backroute" (click to show/hide)

Hint 11 (click to show/hide)

Since Simon and Wibble had/have such problems with the level it would be maybe a candidate for higher ranking.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 07:49:16 PM by Forestidia86 »