Author Topic: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini  (Read 1519 times)

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Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #60 on: July 30, 2020, 11:00:15 pm »
ok, rank 3 is finished, put notes for levels of rank 3, started from level 16, see page 3 for the notes.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS. Oh boy now comes the hard ones I know. Ultra-violence now (rank 4) of 5.

Notes will always be on page 3. I put them there about levels as I go. So If you want to see progress just go to page 3
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 01:48:00 am by ericderkovits »

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #61 on: July 31, 2020, 04:30:33 am »
slowly making progress already in rank 4 finished 1st 10 levels of rank. To See my progress just look at page 3 to see how I'm doing. also I put down notes about levels such as backroute fixes that icho has in his youtube video. also if there are any issues with a level.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 10:46:35 am by ericderkovits »

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #62 on: July 31, 2020, 07:48:39 pm »
level 9 Drunk Lemmings on their way home I got your solution to work in neolemmix. only difference Is I had to use final builder because the basher bashes like 1 pixel to low under house and wants to keep bashing through slope after that building. (see replay in neolemmix version) I posted it there because I want to see what Icho says about this backroute. only way for the bomber to work at beginning was to get miner to mine just a tad lower than bash and then get another lemming to bomb making it so no other lemmings walk up left and over.

Edit: Icho said he would accept this one in neolemmix as an alternative as a fix would be ugly.
 Good that makes me happy now knowing that Icho would accept it so now we know this solution for superlemmi can be marked as good.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 08:05:54 pm by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #63 on: July 31, 2020, 08:24:09 pm »
See my replay for Ultra-Violence 10 - Engage! It's pretty much the same, except instead of bashing to the left at the top, I bash to the right. The only tricky thing was not knowing if the two lemmings would turn around before the basher in the lower part was done. Note that this is the Lemmini version since the OWW isn't there, but this solution should still work in Superlemmini and NL even with the OWW. Thus, this is simply a timing heavy precise solution and you don't need to increase the RR almost right away, although you'll still need to increase it at some point to avoid running out of time.

Oh, I also appreciate that you credited me with the solution for Hey, Not Too Rough 9 - Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home. Good thing Icho and I had the same thought of simply accepting it as an alternative.

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #64 on: July 31, 2020, 08:43:35 pm »
yes that is different. I do notice your solution ended up with 13 seconds left where Ichos one I followed was 22 seconds but I think yours is easier. also I didn't see the OWW's in the level so I'm going to add them. Yes those OWW would'nt stop either solution. Since i'm adding the OWW it will make my replay invalid. anytime one changes a level the replay fails because the exit will change back again also the traps. I've notice this happens when I added things in previous levels I've edited. So when I try again I'll use your solution and see what happens.

EDIT: I can't seem to find the OWW's in that level in the editor: I'm not sure if it's object 8 and 9 (looks different) but the ones that look like that in the level in neolemmix and youtube are not in the editor. and I don't want to mess up a replay I have if it is not the OWW's so I think I'll just leave them out.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2020, 08:58:53 pm by ericderkovits »

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2020, 05:51:04 pm »
Ok, ranks 1-3 neolemmix music pack for Superlemmini matches.

Also I was thinking again about Kaywhn's NotSoRough level 9 Drunk Lemmings on the way home.

I've decided to add 1 more builder to the level(total 7 instead of 6) to allow for the intended solution. It's just now it takes a 4 builder wall to stop the climber
from climbing the builder wall. But it still allows Kaywhn's solution to work too. So both Kaywhn's solution and the intended one work. intended one uses all skills as intended. Kaywhn's solution just ends up with 2 builders. I think Icho kinda made me think that Kaywhn's was ok as an alternate but he said it was more difficult.(in neolemmix definitely) not in Superlemmini though as the bomber explosion is bigger.  And I'm ok with adding another builder regardless if a
backroute happens. It's is only in the early stages of the 2nd rank anyways.

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #66 on: August 01, 2020, 08:40:46 pm »
I was going through Icho's Regular Lemmini replays 1 rank a day today was HurtMePlenty. In his replays, A christmas journey, as soon as that digger started digging up on top of poles with OWW's it crashed, so what I did was interrupt the replay right at that point and finished level and resaved it. tested it again, replay is now good in Regular Lemmini. also he misspelled Christmas, he spelled it Chirstmas, so I corrected the spelling. also I resaved the .ini file with the new spelling for both regular and Superlemmini.

Anyways if you want the lemmini replay for "A christmas journey" (regular lemmini) and the new .ini with the correct spelling of "Christmas" here they are.

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2020, 04:33:16 am »
ok, final rank of Superlemmini, Rank 4 (ultra-violence is finished). got all the replays.

Onto Final rank of pack

Summary of rank 4. I found for the most part this rank easy outside of Level 20 (Lems go cliffjumping-extremely difficult) and
the final level. The hardest to execute of the first 4 final ranks to execute.


Ok on to rank 5(Nightmare), I hope these are not too bad when you know the solution by Icho on his youtube channel or if needed by his Lemmini replays.
I'm looking forward to finishing not only this rank but the pack so i can make a quick final run before uploading it to The Forum.

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2020, 04:53:11 am »
ok also I think I will Use this post for Rank 5 instead of keep adding to other one. so you can check this post for the progress I'm doing for the final rank.
 Also hopefully they won't drag me down. I think more of an issue with the levels is not so much solving them(because I do check Icho Channel but also have his Lemmini replays) but when there are issues with the level that I have to deal with in the editor.

Online kaywhyn

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2020, 06:01:37 am »
Hey eric, I just wanted to voice my congrats on finishing the conversion of the first 4 ranks of Reunion. I been checking up on your progress from time to time by checking page 3 of the topic, and I got to say that's definitely some detailed, copious notes you have on each of the levels. However, I do agree with you that perhaps you should keep all the Nightmare ranking notes on this current page, separate from the others. Now that I think about it, perhaps an even better idea would had been to keep each ranking in a separate post, i.e, all of rank 1 in one post, all of rank 2 in another post, etc. I admit that due to how you have both ranks 3 and 4 in the same post I got really annoyed with having to scroll down so much to find your notes on each new level. Or, perhaps you could even maintain an Excel spreadsheet, but the biggest problem is that you would have to repeatedly keep reattaching the file, so instead of doing that you could maybe just attach when you have a ranking done. Of course, with this way I won't be able to see your own notes on the levels and then I offer my input on the levels if I remember something interesting about them.

Something that I need to point out, though.

Summary of rank 4. I found for the most part this rank easy outside of Level 20 (Lems go cliffjumping-extremely difficult) and
the final level. The hardest to execute of the first 4 final ranks to execute.

I know what you're saying, but just so you know they're not "final ranks." Ranks are not levels, they're difficulty ratings. Instead, the level you're describing is the "final level of the rank," "rank finisher," etc. And yes, I agree with you that the Ultra-Violence rank finisher is much harder than the previous 3 rank finishers. Hey, that sounds like what I said about the rank 4 finisher being the hardest out of the previous 3 rank finishers of United lol. Of course, I have yet to see the final level of the pack, but I'm not going to be surprised if it's way harder than all the other rank finishers. What will be surprising is if I found it easy compared to them.

Quote
Ok on to rank 5(Nightmare), I hope these are not too bad when you know the solution by Icho on his youtube channel or if needed by his Lemmini replays.
I'm looking forward to finishing not only this rank but the pack so i can make a quick final run before uploading it to The Forum.

The Nightmare ranking would definitely take you forever if you didn't have access to replays. Not only are the levels super huge, they're also very complex puzzles that have so many possibilities to try. Of course, I don't have any problems with you taking your time on this project, as I'm not in a hurry to play this pack on Superlemmini, but I still look forward to seeing the finished product. That makes me wonder. In the process of converting Reunion to Superlemmini, how many of the levels have you seen where you have said, "Wow, I never would had come up with that myself while solving the level"? I know you have said over and over that you're very glad that you have replays.

With all that has been said, good luck converting all of of the Nightmare ranking. From what I remember, almost every level in the ranking was a huge time crunch. The biggest one of all would be Rise of a Digital Nation, which I believe is Nightmare 24. You will always finish that level with only a few seconds left. Also, knowing you and if your statement of being lousy at level solving is any indication, you probably will get very frustrated with Nightmare 29, or perhaps being put off altogether and maybe not even attempt solving it due to the sheer huge size of the level and the fact that it has a 16 minute time limit. Luckily, it's not super tight on time, but it can be if you just mess around. I think my best completion time of the level had around 2 minutes remaining. Another thing is that although skills are quite tight, it's still a pretty open-ended level for the end of the Nightmare ranking. You can see this in Icho's replay where he still has some skills leftover. For example, it's definitely possible to save more lemmings than what it requires. If this is the case, if you want I offer to solve the level for you and then I'll send the replay to you. I've completed the level twice over the last 3 years on Lemmini. At the same time, I still encourage you to at least attempt it since then all the replays will be your own. If after a lot of time you cannot get the solution to work, only then will I step in and solve it for you. I know you can do it, though.

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2020, 07:42:34 am »
when solving levels to me it's not so much the size of the level. if the size is huge but the level execution is not so bad then I can deal with the size.
I'd rather have a large easy execution one than 1 small hard one. probably the thing that annoys me the most is Superlemmini doesn't have backward framstepping like neolemmix. because one small error and you have to watch the replay over up to the point you made the error. and if that error is in a huge size level that is extremely annoying. but at least every one you get correct you don't have to do over just have to watch the replay over to that point you messed up. And as far as solving the level if I see it's the same as Icho's youtube ones then what I do is just do every skill one at a time and do it in superlemmini. so I just take my time and do each one in steps. for example: maybe he says here ok lemming 1 do this, so I pause the video and repeat it in Superlemmini, then pause Superlemmini, continue slowing with video and repeat next action, and so forth until the level is solved. I can't just even break it down into say 5, because I'll forget the action.

but what got me annoyed about the rank finsher 4 is It looked the same so when I got to the last part I found out I didn't have a miner. then I realized it had to be lemmini's version so instead of mining the blocker lemming with a miner I had to start over and get in unblocked with a digger instead.
sometimes in his videos he doesn't mention lemmini's is different otherwise I would've just used the lemmini replay to begin with.
 
But I'm not in a hurry either. I'm just going to take my time. and when I start a Level I just don't go into trying to solve it. since I'm testing the exits and traps what I do in the editor is put a hatch near the exit and/or traps and make sure they work because I don't want to try to solve it then at the end the exit fails. Once I know the exit and the traps work, then I go back and remove the hatchs from the editor and resave. then I go and solve it using videos and ichos replays if their different than neolemmix's

Online kaywhyn

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2020, 08:31:10 am »
Not all huge levels are easy to execute, though. If this is the case, then this sounds like the kind of level that is the worst combination for you. Nightmare 29 is such an example. In particular, it's very nightmarish (no pun intended) to pull off in Lemmini/Superlemmini due to no skill shadows and how the miner trick needs to be done several times in the level in different places. Also, without replays it's difficult to say whether a solution is easy to execute or not without having sat through it for some time and played around with it. Most importantly, you need to keep in mind that being able to come up with the solution on your own is very different than seeing it in a replay without having attempted solving the level for a period of time first. I myself get a lot of satisfaction from solving difficult levels on my own before watching replays. That's why I don't mind being stuck on a level for a long time, and I always resist the urge to peek at a replay. I know that you have said several times that you admire my patience and perseverance in solving levels. Then often times, when I watch a replay to a level that I have completed, most of the time I find myself going, "Oh gosh, I can't believe I never thought about doing that. So much easier than what I did." Not always, but most of the time I found myself saying that.

Looking forward to seeing more notes from you regarding the Nightmare levels. You definitely have been working hard on the conversion the last few weeks.

Offline ericderkovits

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2020, 10:48:44 am »
Tested rank 4s music to neolemmix's in that levelpack and it matches



Rank 5 Nightmare

 
  Level 1 From Unrest to Antrophy
            The hardest thing about this level is just making sure to start the diggers on left upper and right upper part before the worker lemming even gets to
            mine the pole that has OWW's on it or you will run out time. also the digger lemming on right side has to be the climber otherwise if you don't pick
            him he'll climb back up back toward water and won't make it back. also he would splat.
            Issues: had to move up that tiny slope by water on right side because that stupid cliimber again wants to climb over that. Tsyu needs to address
                        this.

  Level 2 Castle Rush
            This level has to be precise not only in actions but also timing. What I have to do from now on in Nightmare levels is first check for the differences
             in neolemmix's version to correct backroutes (ie add OWW's,etc) then instead of watching Youtube's video I will have Lemmini and Superlemmini's
             windows open and slowly watch Icho's Lemmini replay and follow exactly it in Superlemmini right down to the finest of details(ie exact placement
             of actions, timing, release rate changes) and use forward framestepping and pause in Superlemmini.
             Anyways as far as solving this level, yes I had to use Icho's Lemmini replays and follow it in Superlemmi right down to the finest of details, I mean
             within pixels, clock management etc. and as long as I did this the level worked. but yes I can see the differences already in the first two levels in
             this rank already over the previous ranks.
             Issues: None

  Level 3 Lemming City Stories
             Again used Icho's replay and slowly did everything precise in Superlemmini. This one wasn't so bad because I had 57sec left when level finished.
             probably the most difficult thing is making sure digger on far left is close enough to edge below so he can be released by a blocker. other than that
             there wasn't too many difficult things about it.
             Issues: None   

  Level 4 Stop and Go!
             This level has a major problem with diggers unblocking blockers (I think it's Superlemmini's physics that are not the same as Lemmini's)
              kinda like the climber climbing over 1 pixel ceilings. I've spent hours on this level. There are times the blocker is practically on i pixel where his
              one foot is hanging is space. I don't think that is supposed to happen. but finally i got a funky replay where the blocker is supposed to block on
              left diggers pit until builder to left exit is almost done building then release that blocker with a digger.
              my replay is where there is a super thin(almost looks like a piece of thread) barrier and the blocker in the middle with lemmings on both sides)
              Kinda looks like the one in SterneHimmel where the blocker is in the middle with lemmings on both sides blocked by thin barriers.then i release
              the blocker with the digger(on left side of blocker). I know this is not the intended solution but since it worked I'll take it since I think the physics
              in Superlemmini may not work correctly with the diggers unblocking blockers. I had no problem with the other ones just for some reason with the
              blocker in left diggers pit could never get unblocked no matter what I did.

              I'm just going to move on from this level, at least I have a replay that worked(even a funky one)
              also I saw Icho's Lemmini replay on this level to see where blocker is there. I've had the blocker in that position before and Superlemmini
              wouldn't let me unblock him there, because it's too close to steel.

             Edit: i'm thinking of maybe exchanging a basher for 1 of the diggers in this level. but i'll hold off for now. I'll think about for a while. and I
                     reported this behavior to Tsyu

             Edit 2: I've just noticed neolemmix's version is different. I'm going to use neolemmix's version since their Icho mentioned something about this
                        level having a lot of patches.

              UPDATE:
               Ok Superlemmini will now use the Neolemmix version of Level 4 stop and Go. This is much better as now there are no Issues
             This version has a different skill set (still must use them all to solve). Now 3 miners are in this version. also this one has added steel to terrain
              Now there is less time to solve from 3 minutes to 2 min 40 sec. but this isn't even an issue as I finished level still with 30 seconds.

           
   Level 5 Four Pals
               Ok this one is a super easy one. the only thing you have to make sure of is miner mines right 2 small poles back instead of right at edge of
               barrier and basher bashes right at lowest part of snow at bottom area to keep lemmings somewhat close together as this is a must so builder
               has time to build over gap toward exit.
               Oh Added right facing OWW's on pole lemmings land on according to Icho's video
               Issues: None

    Level 6 Brick Confusion
               ok what makes the level hard is the timing of the floaters. 1st let the 1st lemming float, then pause set RR to 99 do framestepping and as soon as you 
               see the next one out the set RR back to 1 so the  2 will be close together as only 1 can get sucked by the sucker. And the only other part
               that gave me trouble is getting that blocker on end of builders step so builder will turn right(after several attempts I finally got it). all the other
               steps in icho's solution not that hard. and if you do everything correct time won't be an issue as I finished level around 38 seconds left.
               Issues:None

    Level 7 Tactical Foul
                Ok, I have one question for you, why is this in Nightmare rank? Should be maybe only beginning part of 2nd rank or end of 1st. the puzzle is
                super easy to execute. did it 1st try. Not even a time cruncher. I didn't even find 1 part tricky.
                maybe only to make sure athlete builds not at edge to reach barrier there to build so the released lemmings don't splat.
                Maybe this level is here in this rank because the're on their way home drunk. (which is harder than this puzzle)
                Issues: Level doesn't belong in this rank.

    Level 08 Up and Down the Shafts.
                ok. This is a nice puzzle. This one isn[t too tough to execute. probably the trickiest parts were the 2 mining actions. 1st one at upper hatch
                when its time to mine that blocker away so upper crowd can drop down to lower level. Again it's so crowded up there sometimes its hard to get
                the miner to mine right also back enough so no lemmings splat(in neolemmix would be easier because of skill shadows) and the other miner
                action near the exit. must mine left down close to that square steel block(without hitting it) because if you don't get close to steel block miner
                will continue mining through floor. other than those 2 things rest of level is easy to execute.
                Issues: None

    Level 09 Pipe Grid Puzzle
                Ok this level is just a timing puzzle. everything must be timed just at the right time. also the group of non-worker lemmings have to be
                released early enough so you don't run out of time as there is only 2 minutes. the puzzle part is easy. it's just timing everything right. It took
                several tries. But I got it. Probably the trickiest part is when to make a lemming a climber so last 2 builder lemmings will get to exit.
                Issues: None. Of course I made sure all the suckers work.
                UPDATE: I watched Icho's youtube video on this level. He said it was problematic with so many backroutes to fix. So I made these fixes for
                              for Superlemmi. This isn't a different version, it's just backroute fixed. Solution is the same and skillset is the same.
                UPDATE2: This level is still a problem level as it still can be backrouted.


      Level 10 Shadowrun
          Wow I had 1 second left when last lemming exited. Of course I saw Icho's replay for regular Lemmini his replay only had 3 seconds.
          and his neolemmix replay had 6 seconds. He mentioned in his channel as long as you do his solution, time will not run out but sure cuts it close
          He must have spent some time on designing this one. I found only 1 tricky part though (getting the right lemming to start digging from hatch)
          I found out when framstepping and pausing as soon as you see 12 lemmings out dig the starting lemming. That will make it so 2 lemmings are in pit
          1 will go right and 1 left. The rest of the level was easy to execute, just had to use pause since it's a minor multitask (left side lemmings and 2 right 
          side ones) I can't even see a backroute on this one since time is extremely tight
          I added the small right-facing OWW's on upward slope just left and below hatch that's in neolemmix(he said that part was a backroute fix)
        Issues: again climber issue: had to raise that tiny slope near right-most OWW's where lemming digs before exploding as stupid climber wants to
                   climb instead of being contained. and one cant have that I mean he could make it to exit but since time is an issue I had to fix.

  Level 11 The Chosen Lemmings of Ra
               ok, This one is kind of a timing one too. The tricky part for me is It seemed like the lemmings heading left from the trap at bottom right would
                keep beating the lemming that came down after digging above exit where he builds right accross small gap. The other parts I had no problem
                with. I had to play around with the timing with the floater at top right, when to float him. finally got it. also I increase the RR to 99 as soon as
                see the 3rd lemming coming out of hatch. I finished level with 9 seconds. Man your right, no playing around, every one of the actions have to
                be spot on or time runs out. In neolemmix, Icho's version is easier as he has more levels with unlimited time.
                Issues: Again I had to raise that tiny slope just to the right of that small water gap as the climber who mined left at top left wall climbs that.
                           This is really annoying. Climbers shouldn't be doing that.

  Level 12 Way into Madness
                ok this one was easy to execute. nice puzzle. I've been noticing in this rank he has some nice puzzle ones. basically the solution is just
                making sure lemmings have builder steps to walk on over small fire pits and a couple spots where a lemming makes a bash so lemmings
                won't fall over (right side sloping terrain and digger part on left side.). Finished with 3 seconds left. Icho's lemmini replay was 2 seconds.
                Note:Neolemmix's version is different. a little bit different terrain on left side upper level and solution was different in neolemmix from
                        Lemmini's..But I always try to keep the Lemmini's version in my Superlemmini. (Nightmare 4 Stop and Go was the one exception
                        since it had a problem) I do though add backroute fixes if the level is the same. In this one the only thing I added was the 3 fireblowers
                        on the right upper level (Icho mentioned a backroute).
                Issues: 3 of the firepits I had to adjust, because instead of lemmings dying, they were just walking back and forth on them.

                      Update: I have saved 2 replays for this level. I wanted to see if Icho's neolemmix solution would work in this one since this one is Lemmini
                                  version map. Terrain a little different in my Superlemmini(I kept Lemmini's version). but his neolemmix solution(slightly different)
                                  also works (finished with 6 seconds vs 3 in lemmini's solution). both solutions use all skills.

  Level 13 Face Down and Pushing Through
               ok This level according to Icho was changed to a solution that Namida used thus getting rid of 1 miner and 4 diggers. He said he changed it to
               Namida's because it was backrouted too much, so I did the same. so when playing my Superlemmini to solve one must use the Namida solution.
               And yes it works. I saved the replay with the change in skill set.
              As far as solving the level the only tricky part was getting that last build to OWW. The builder must be back far enough so build can reach near
              high part of OWW so miner can mine left down without hitting steel. also the builder steps go more into OWW so miner will go through it without
              leaving a tiny gap.
              Issues: None

  Level 14 Justice for Heroes
              Ok this level wasn't too tricky to execute either. the trickiest part was the blocker near the exit. In Superlemmi if a lemming is too close to the exit
              it won't allow one to become a blocker. I managed it though. This is the only part that has to be precise because of Superlemmi's engine.
          I added the OWW's that were on big block left of entrance where 1st miner mines shown in neolemmix (backroute fix). The blocker pickup skill obviously
          can't be used in Superlemmini, so there probably will still be a backroute as Icho added one in neolemmix where he said he put the blocker pickup
          skill because the blocker was being misused at the beginning.
          Issues: None

  Level 15 Try Die Cry
               Ok this is a nice puzzle too. Not hard to execute either. In the neolemmix version Icho mentions he had to add 3 blocker and 2 basher pickup
               skills as a backroute fix, but obviously Superlemmini doesn't have pickup skills, so here there's probably a backroute. But I solved just using
               Icho's solution. As far as solving, nothing  is that hard to execute, probably the trickiest is just making sure a builder is
               used correctly hits barrier without turning around right before small water gap on bottom floor because he needs to climb there so he can
               continue right to upper floor. if he turns around he'll just exit.
              Issues: I had to put a small vertical barrier right before small left diagonal stairs near upper right because again a stupid climber climbs over
                          that. so annoying. also I had to go to pillars style file and add the ,1 for the spikes as it crashed. this is the first level that uses spikes.

   Level 16 Another Brick in the Wall(Pink Floyd)
               ok this one wasn't hard to execute either. the trickiest part was probably to make sure that digger on on top of that big block digs near left edge
               so when he gets to bottom and breaks thru just at very bottom to open gap he can be blocked and released. This level I finished with 25 seconds 
               Icho's Lemmini replay he finished with 7 seconds left because when he built over small water gap at far right bottom near exit the lemming
               turned around and he didn't bash the right barrier with the 1st lemming where I did.
               Note: this level is exactly the same as neolemmix's including same skill set, but save % in neolemmix is 97 where in Lemmini it's 96. so I
               changed it to 97. This is because in Icho's Lemmini replay he forgot to turn 2nd lemming into a climber(he did 3rd one so he lost a lemming that he
               shouldn't have-he messed up). In neolemmix he got it right-he didn't lose a lemming, so was 97.
               Issues: same ol' same ol' stupid climber issue. a climber wants to climb over statue right below leftmost hatch so i put a tiny piece of terrain on
                           his head so climber will turn around there.

Level 17 Frozen Mind
             This is a a Nightmare(pun intended). I hate this level. I just couldn't get that lemming to bash thru the 2 placed builders steps.  of course there
             was timing of when to send the climbers. Send  the first one but then must wait till you see the 13th one out to send the next 3. and the final one
             after 37th lemming come out of hatch. also that digger has to be real low because the lemmings that are not doing anything are low, so that was
             a problem. Everything else was easy. its just the 2 builders have to be super precise where they start building also the basher has to be at a
             perfect spot to bash so he will go through the builders steps into the left area where remaining lemmings are. finally after hours of trying I did it.
             Issues:None

Level 18 Under the grinning Moon
             This level was easy to solve but an editing nightmare. Stupid way the shadow traps work. they have too big of a trigger zone. Spent a few hours
             just fiddling with it to get it to work. Not a perfect one but at least the traps work.
             Also Icho made a lot of backroute fixes in the level. He added a tiny bit of steel below hatch, left facing OWW on big block left of exit, along with
             some steel on top of that block. also a middle-sized block left of exit. Not a fun level at all to edit.
             But as far as solving this level it was a nice puzzle. The only real tricky part was lining up the builder miner trick Icho loves to use. but this trick
             isn't nearly as difficult as that one in the previous level. I hate those ones, especially when the basher is far from builder steps. These tricks are
             easier to do.
             Issues: editing nightmare with the traps as they have too big a trigger zone.

  Level 19 Balls Ahead!
               ok this is a nice puzzle, very easy to execute. The only tricky parts again were Icho's builder miner trick near exit and also to make sure 3rd
               climber is sent a little later so a lemming can build left at blocker near top of map.
               Issues: just had to lower a little bit of those steel blocks near top of map close to entrance as climbers fell back down instead of continuing over.
                          also again a tiny slope that climber climbs over where he shouldn't have (although climber could still make it to exit in time, but since he
                          isn't supposed to climb the slope I raised it again.)

  Level 20 Pachelbel's Canon
               ok got this level to finally work the stupid miner builder trick wouldn't work with the terrain so I altered it slightly so it will now work. spent hours
               on this again.
               anyways, solving this level's is a multi-task between the upper level and lower level not really hard to solve if you take it slowly. I had no
               problem in this one with the basher builder trick but the minor builder one failed every time because of the terrain.
               I noticed the song it play's. I think it is only used in this level (from neolemmix). I like the music. also Lemmini also play another version
               of this song. I like Lemmini's too.
               Issues: builder miner trick wouldn't work so I slightly made it work with fixing terrain. This was the only issue.

               Edit: I watched the Lemmini one of this one. when the miner hits steel he doesn't turn around. In Superlemmini he does. This was another
                       problem I was having. That is another reason I altered Superlemmi's terrain.

 Level 21 Rockbiter
              ok this one was a multi-task level. the trickiest parts for me, I think were making sure the miner mines 3 times in big middle block by having
              blockers at each edge to turn the miner. 1st one was simply a climber from top left hatch then next 2 were sent up by climbers timed just right to
              block then the miner will be low enough so all lemming can get home. of course have to build the gaps miner left but that was easy.
              also top right lemmings got home by 2 floaters falling then climbing right thin column. 1st floater-climber explodes about 1/2 way up pole then
              2nd one just puts a single step in bomber hole so the top right ones can land on it after a builder land on pole.
              Issue: None

Level 22 Kairo
      First of all, this level Icho fixed in his last neolemmix reunion update, which I went back to solve because I wanted all the replays for neolemmix's
      So I kinda already remembered the solution to this one. This puzzle is kind of a Beat the Clock level. Basically you do a few skills to lead the lone lemming to open the path to the exit (with help from a 2nd one who made it past traps(send 5 and block the 6th) at the end you will have your lone lemming leading way. then it's a matter of race to last crusher all the lemmings that were released from the blown up blocker and lone lemming pretty much have to be at last crusher almost simultanionly but just an instant before the lone lemming has to be crushed and while that happens the others sneak past the last crusher to the exit.
Note: I fixed this to match neolemmix's as the level and solution are the same with changes Icho made in his last update.
Issues:None

 Level 23 You have to Believe!
       ok this level requires extreme precision with the miner builder steps so miner can zig-zag down before bashing right to free lower level lemmings
       also at the beginning, it's the same way where miner from right hatch has to mine down left thru builders step that were placed there from the digger
       at start. also was very difficult to get the miner to mine left since it's so crowded there.
       This level is the most difficult level in game so far not because of the solution per say, but because of extreme precison.
       Also this is the Lemmini's version of the level which is more difficult than neolemmix, also neolemmix has a different solution. But I always try to keep
       the Lemmini version even though it's way more difficult than neolemmix's

       Issues:
       Ok this level has a problem with the thickness of the builders steps. in the 2nd zig-zag mining area the thickness causes the miner to aways break the 
       one going down left near where left wall starts so I decided to add 1 more builder to level to have a double builder there so the puzzle can be solved.
       Maybe it's Superlemmini engine(not sure). I saw Icho's Lemmini replay. this part is so extreme that I don't believe other people will enjoy this problem
       so that is why I added 1 builder. The level should be based on the puzzle not the builders steps.
       UPDATE: i just saw Icho's youtube on neolemmix for this level and yes he mentions this problem with the builder steps, so he also added an extra 
                    builder..

Level 24 Rise of a Digital Nation
             Ok this level I finished with 3 seconds. Since neolemmix's version is exactly the same, I just followed Icho's solution on Youtube. Not really a hard
             one, just make sure to pause and see what's going on in level and follow it precisely. Not too many difficult things, the trickiest was just that 2nd   
             gap(the one after electrical trap) the lemming has to be just on very edge of block so he builds and turns around. had to use forward
             framestepping and do a few times. but managed it.
             Issues: None

  Level 25 The Flameout
                ok this level wasn't too bad. the trickiest part was getting that blocker at very far right near exit. he practically was just as far as he can go,
                because even though I got builder to hit him and turn and make it left. it was difficult because blocker has to be far enough right after builder
                builds so other lemmings get on the step and turn and head for exit instead of hitting blocker and not going up. that was very difficult.
                rest of level was not very difficult.
                Issues: None

  Level 26 The Master System
                Ok this level Icho used his builder miner trick 2 times, I accomplished both by looking precisely at his youtube channel the placement.
                the first one it took 3 tries as I was just a tad off. The 2nd one near the exit I managed to do it the 1st try.
                There was no problem though in these tricks as long as there flat or near flat surfaces unlike pachebel's canon. That level's dirt area was just
                too ruged. The only other tricky part (and not really that tricky) was bombing the crowd at the right time so they won't splat on diggers ledge.
                I added the tiny OWW's on the compartment sides where the rightmost lemmings are shown in the neolemmix level(backroute fix according to
                Icho)
                Issues: None

  Level 27 Unsecure Area
                Ok this level was the 2nd of 2 levels Icho updated in his latest release in neolemmix. So again I was already familiar with the solution as I
                corrected the solution for his neolemmix pack. The only difference between neolemmix's version and Lemmini's is he exchanged a basher
                for a digger in neolemmix. but either one was used in the same spot, so it really doesn't matter which one is there. The solution is the same
                either way. The only thing That I added for Superlemmini is the ton of stompers at beginning because I fixed a backroute Icho mentioned
                where if one does any kind of building the lemmings will get stomped as building there is to prevent a backroute.
                As far as solving, I think this level is not too hard. The trickiest part probably is again Icho's famous builder miner trick. but after a few tries
                I got it lined up. Just had to make sure digger at OWW's was far enough left so when miner gets down there to finish mining he doesn't leave
                a gap.
                Note: in Neolemmix's version Icho added 2 climber pickup skills but since Superlemmini does'nt have pickups there might still be a backroute
                         possible here in Superlemmini.
                Issues: had to vertically adjust map because climbers fell back down trying to climb those steel blocks near top of screen.

               
               


                 


             


       


 








 








                                 

                   
   
   

           


« Last Edit: Today at 08:27:58 am by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2020, 10:13:21 am »
Absolutely agree with your assessment of Nightmare 7 being really easy for the rank. Just a standard puzzle with a new idea that isn't too tricky to figure out, and probably doesn't take too long to realize it. Nothing wrong with that, though. The entire Nightmare rank isn't all very hard levels. It's nice to have the occasional easy level in the final and most difficult ranking. Consider it a break from all the hard levels before and around it. I said the exact same thing in my feedback to United. Both the 3rd and 4th levels, imo, are really easy for the Genocide rank. Similarly, look at L1 and ONML. Both the Mayhem and the Havoc ranks had the occasional very easy level compared to all the other difficult ones around them. Thus, the idea is that no level pack is perfect going from easy to hard all the time. It's perfectly fine to throw in an easy, breather level here and there every now and then just so the player doesn't get frustrated from all the really hard levels. Just as it's fine to start hard in the rank and stay hard throughout or have an occasional breather level. Also, as is most often the case, the difficulty curve can be very wonky and be all over the place. You can encounter an easy level but then all of a sudden the next level is a huge jump in difficulty. Then maybe the next level after that is easy again, or it could be followed by a few difficult levels and then after a while you encounter an easier than usual level after all the hard ones.

Almost a third of the way through the Nightmare rank. Nice job!   

Online IchoTolot

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Re: conversion of Icholotots lemmini Lemmings reunion into Superlemmini
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2020, 10:59:40 am »
Quote
    Level 7 Tactical Foul
                Ok, I have one question for you, why is this in Nightmare rank? Should be maybe only beginning part of 2nd rank or end of 1st. the puzzle is
                super easy to execute. did it 1st try. Not even a time cruncher. I didn't even find 1 part tricky.
                maybe only to make sure athlete builds not at edge to reach barrier there to build so the released lemmings don't splat.
                Maybe this level is here in this rank because the're on their way home drunk. (which is harder than this puzzle)
                Issues: Level doesn't belong in this rank.

Let's go on a trip back in time. In 2015 the trick to use the miner/basher stroke to especially make a hole on the other side of a gap was considered way more difficult than now. With that in mind the level was more difficult back then than now.


Regarding timers: Lemmini required timers , so that's the reason why many of them were there in the first place. NL removed a lot of them where the timer became an issue even though the level was not about the timer. There are still a bunch of levels in NL with a not needed timer, but it doesn't get in the way there. If the pack was made fror NeoLemmix in the first place the ammount of timers would be even lower now.

Regarding execution:
The lack of skill shadows and framestepping held me back while creating Reunion and it always felt like a straitjacket for me. I tried to held back precision and timing at some points, but did not care much in other points (especially in nightmare levels). With NL finally the precision factors did not matter as much anymore (they still matter though) and that's why I still consider the Lemmini version to be a very poor choice for playing this pack, but I still keep it up for archive purposes. At the point of the Reunion NL conversion I completely switched to N and only updated that version from then on. That's why it's still a bit surprising to me why you go through all of this execution madness when you don't have to. ;P