Lemmings Forums
Other Lemmings Projects => Lemmini => Topic started by: ericderkovits on July 24, 2020, 09:53:43 PM
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I downloaded icholotots v1.5 lemmings reunion for Lemmini. I have his levels, music and styles all put into my correct Superlemmini folders. I have it converted to Superlemmini already. I'm using 1.43f-c to correct the Superlemmini levels that dont have lemmings exiting. so this will be slow process. and even his special tiles already have been working. half way through 1st rank already (with replays). I think the music sounds better in Superlemmini's version than Neolemmix. Of course right now I'm just fixing the levels so they play. will be using replays I have from neolemmix's version and also with Icho's youtube channel, since I'm not good at level solving.
And as far as back routes I will use the neolemmix's last version of it after I just get this version to work.
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I noticed icholotots styles are affecting my other packs in Superlemmini. ie trap issues and exit issues that were not happening before this.
But not an issue for me as I save everything to my Googledrive.
so what I'm doing and did is when converting reunion to Superlemmini
1) temporarily using Icho's styles(named just "Styles") folders to convert Reunion to Superlemmini and when I'm finished with every rank and level
2) rename this one: "Styles-altered for Reunion" and put back the original one just named "Styles" from my googledrive
and whenever I want to play reunion on Superlemmini, I'll just name the altered one as "Styles" and rename original one "Styles-normal"
and whenever I want to play any other pack, I'll rename Icho's one back to "Styles-altered for Reunion" and rename "Styles-normal" back to just "Styles"
for Superlemmini to work, one has to do this as Superlemmini just looks for the folder named "Styles" not "Style-altered for Reunion" or "Styles-normal"
So for your Info. If you want this conversion pack for Superlemmini, Make sure before(A must) you extract this conversion pack, to backup your "Styles", "Levels" and "Music" folders and rename them something else for your other packs like I did above.
Also Icho warned about this in the Thread about his Reunion pack (although was for regular Lemmini),but still this must be done or it will affect your other packs, and this is very difficult to fix. Luckly I noticed this early on and did this above. Also I'm very good about Superlemmini's Structure, so I know what I'm doing.
Finally I'm almost finished with first rank (25 of 30 levels done)
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onto the 3rd rank (hurt me plenty) all the 1st and 2nd rank are done. I have all the replays saved by using icholotot's youtube channel. It's quicker than using replays from neolemmix. And of course no crashes so far. also have been testing the traps, I think there only is a problem with the traps because of Icho's styles. This wouldn't happen with the normal styles.
ok did the 30 levels of rank 2. saved replays
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I've been watching Icho's Youtube Channel for his solutions. In Hurt Me Plenty's (Rank 3)-"And here comes the Lemming Train". he discusses backroutes in this level. i noticed the Lemmini version
had 2 extra builders and a save requirement of 59 of 60. In his youtube channel the solution most likely had a backroute fix thus changing the builder count and save requirement. So I changed it to be like the video (the level I have now shows 2 less builders and changed it to 60 of 60). And I already have the replay saved for this level according to Icho's solution. I'm guessing originally having 59 of 60 one had to use a bomber, but now he changed it.
EDIT:
in level 6 (Winter Soldiers) rank 3 there is a trick with a builder that he mentioned only works in Lemmini(also works in Superlemmini) but not in neolemmix, thus in neolemmix save requirement is 9/10 but in Lemmini(and now Superlemmini) it's 10/10. I solved it though (10/10). Also his channel deals with solutions in neolemmix.
EDIT2:
In level 10 (Did everyone turn left) rank 3 the level is different than neolemmix's version so It took me awhile to solve. There is a beartrap on bottom in Lemmini's version. Not in neolemmix. because of the beartrap in Lemmini's version there was 1 extra digger. Also +1 basher. and -1 miner.
so I finally figured to use that extra digger on weed hanging down when a lemming is facing left then bash just under beartrap with that one when is on bottom level(facing left of course)
and Icho didn't mention difference with the Lemmini version on his youtube channel so I didn't change it to neolemmix's version, but I solved it anyways.
And I wonder why he didn't use Lemmini version of it in Neolemmix. I think Lemmini's one is a tad harder. and it is the 3rd rank. the neolemmix one is too easy for a 3rd rank one. (unless there is a backroute somewhere that Icho didn't use it in neolemmix)
here are the 2 different levels:one is neolemmix version and one is lemmini version. Included replays for both versions.
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In level 10 (Did everyone turn left) rank 3 the level is different than neolemmix's version so It took me awhile to solve. There is a beartrap on bottom in Lemmini's version. Not in neolemmix. because of the beartrap in Lemmini's version there was 1 extra digger. Also +1 basher. and -1 miner.
so I finally figured to use that extra digger on weed hanging down when a lemming is facing left then bash just under beartrap with that one when is on bottom level(facing left of course)
and Icho didn't mention difference with the Lemmini version on his youtube channel so I didn't change it to neolemmix's version, but I solved it anyways.
And I wonder why he didn't use Lemmini version of it in Neolemmix. I think Lemmini's one is a tad harder. and it is the 3rd rank. the neolemmix one is too easy for a 3rd rank one. (unless there is a backroute somewhere that Icho didn't use it in neolemmix)
Great job on actually solving a Reunion level! However, there's a much easier way in Lemmini thanks to a miner/blocker trick that only works in Lemmini. See my replay I attached. My solution consists of blocking at the top with the first lemming after he walks for a bit, and then digging with about the last lemming. After a few strokes, mine to release the blocker. The pit should be deep enough so that the blocker turns around. Once the blocker is released, assign a blocker to the miner after the miner finishes a stroke but before he starts moving. Instead of blocking, the miner will fall, walk, and turn around. Thus, the bottom of the level doesn't even get used. That's because in Lemmini, if you look closely, the miner is actually hovering in the air, which explains why assigning a blocker to the miner immediately releases it. If the miner starts moving, he will momentarily be on the ground, and so he'll block as normal if this happens. Thus, the blocker needs to be assigned at the right time. Since this doesn't happen in Superlemmini/Neolemmix, you can't do this miner/blocker trick, and in the other versions you have to use the bottom of the level anyway.
In any case, I appreciate the work you're doing in converting the Lemmini packs to Superlemmini. Once I'm done with United, I'll definitely try out your Superlemmini conversion packs. I'm similar to you in that I pretty much prefer the classical way of playing lemmings, i.e, the classic 8 skills, time limits, and, most importantly, timed bombers. This was why it took me so long to transition to Neolemmix since Lemmini and Superlemmini pretty much have all I wanted. I especially love the directional select feature, i.e, holding down the left/right arrow so that only a lemming in that particular direction gets selected, which was how I found out about Lemmini.
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Yes I see your replay. I tried to do it in my conversion of Superlemmini, I don't think your way works in Superlemmini. And I can't do my Superlemmini solution in Regular Lemmini. I think it's because Lemmini doesn't have forward or backward framstepping. although Superlemmini has forward. so at least I uploaded 2 versions in neolemmix. I altered neolemmix version to match my solution of Superlemmini's
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Did you watch the replay on actual Lemmini? If you don't have it, you'll need to set up Lemmini in order to view it. Like I mentioned above, the miner/blocker trick is exclusive to Lemmini. It doesn't exist in Superlemmini, and so my replay will not work in Superlemmini. Therefore, don't watch Lemmini replays in Superlemmini or vice versa. And yes, you're right about forward and backward framestepping being completely absent in Lemmini.
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yes I have Lemmini. I've played the original ones before. I saw your replay actually in Lemmini.
I also have Reunion in Lemmini and Dovelems too. Although I now have Dovelemms in Superlemmi
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All rightie, sounds good. Just thought you be interested in seeing a shortcut that somehow got overlooked in Lemmini. Of course, if one knows about the miner/blocker trick in Lemmini then yea you can cheese the level the way I did. Again, doesn't work in Superlemmini because the miner is not hovering in the air like it is in Lemmini. Carry on with the conversion, then. Got to love the rank finishers! ;)
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oh and by the way I'm slowly making my way through the conversion of Superlemmini's Conversion of Reunion. I've been saving the replays according to Ichos Youtube Channel. although his are in neolemmix. I just hope I don't come across a Level in Superlemmini that is different and I won't be able to solve it. 95% of the levels I have to move down the exit by 1 or 2 pixels so the lemmings can exit. also the traps too have to be moved down 1 or 2 pixels. for some reason Icho's Styles change it in Superlemmini vs Regular Lemmini.
I know you've played Reunion in Regular Lemmini so If I find a Level I can't solve in Superlemmini because Icho's neolemmix version is different. then you can send me a replay in regular lemmini. But for now, Not yet. but I will let you know. just daily check in the posts for Updates on my Superlemmin version of Reunion. Sometimes I dont do new posts. sometimes edits which can be missed. I think I saw Icho post something about doing a new post not just an edit
or he will probably miss it.
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Just posting to show that I am aware of the project. ;)
I am not agaist this, so you got my official permission to move on. On the other end don't expect any greater support from my side as I simply don't want to put effort/time into SuperLemmini right now. So you are free to move on, just don't expect with extra work from my side.
If you need any "official" replays/solutions for reference though simply ask, that should not be a problem. :)
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yes, Thanks Icho. I do notice differences in neolemmixs version in your Youtube channel. If I need help in Lemmini's version, I will be sure to get a replay from you(but in Lemmini) so when I do it in Superlemmini I'll have a replay. Of course any notes you want to add be sure to do that.
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Your Awesome Icho. Thanks for the P.M. of the old Lemmini replays. I knew a German person like you is great. Also I really respect people trying to learn English there unlike where I live in California, many people here from Mexico don't even try to learn english.
These replays(although for Lemmini) will greatly help me in my conversion into Superlemmini. Super, Toll, Grossartig, Wunderbar. Danke sehr wieder, Icho
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Your Lemmini replays have already made a difference. In rank 3 level Redeeming of the Dead Lemmings, I didn't think it was possible to do with only 9 builders, so I changed my Superlemmini one to your youtube neolemmix one. But after watching your P.M. replay of it, I changed it back and solved it now in Superlemmini.
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Also Kaywhn Icho's solution of "Did every turn left?" is my solution in Superlemmini.
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oh and by the way I'm slowly making my way through the conversion of Superlemmini's Conversion of Reunion.
I know you've played Reunion in Regular Lemmini so If I find a Level I can't solve in Superlemmini because Icho's neolemmix version is different. then you can send me a replay in regular lemmini. But for now, Not yet. but I will let you know. just daily check in the posts for Updates on my Superlemmin version of Reunion.
It's fine, eric. You can go at your own pace and take as long as you need. I'll still be more than happy to send replays upon your request. However, I am missing most of the replays myself, as I didn't bother to save them when I solved them. Compared to Neolemmix, Lemmini doesn't automatically save replays upon successfully solving a level. Thus, one needs to remember to click on "Save replay" every time instead. Nevertheless, it's not a huge problem if I ever need to open up the level and solve it again, as I can easily solve them again. It just won't be as fast since there are no time skips, just fast forward. However, I see that Icho already managed to send you replays, so for the most part I won't need to.
Still, if I see you discussing a level(s) that I think you might be interested in seeing, I'll gladly send mine by replaying them again. I know a couple in the Nightmare rank that have terrible backroutes, although one of them is not really one, just one where I used a glitch to solve it, and it happens to be the very last level of the pack. I was so amazed by my own solution that I saved a replay of it. I did have to solve it again at one point, because for some reason the replay didn't work when I loaded it. It's probably because a new version of Lemmini was released a few years ago and it broke the replay. In any case, I do have a new replay of the level saved from some time ago. It probably still works. I'll need to check.
edit: confirmed. My replay for Nightmare 30 still works. Of course, it'll need fixing when converting to Superlemmini anyway, since the glitch doesn't work in Superlemmini and plus it has a lot of backroutes in its current Lemmini state. I have even forgotten that I managed to save 1 extra.
The other one is easily fixed, but is quite amusing that it got overlooked. It's going to be a while before you get to the Nightmare ranking, so I'll hold off on those for the time being.
Also Kaywhn Icho's solution of "Did every turn left?" is my solution in Superlemmini.
That's fine. You do as you like. I simply wanted to show you the Lemmini miner/blocker trick that makes the level so much easier. Since we have already verified that the trick doesn't work in Superlemmini, it has to be solved another way. The intended way uses all skills anyway rather than so many skills leftover.
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I just wish I didn't have to fix the levels using 1.43f-c for superlemmini (Exits, traps) otherwise my Superlemmini one would be ready to upload. but since this isn't the case I have to slowly go through them making sure exits works as well as traps.
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Yes, unfortunately it's a real pain. That's because trigger areas are so much bigger and wider in Lemmini, which explains why, eg, it's so much easier for lemmings to exit. At the same time, this also makes it much harder to avoid traps by building over them, for example. That's why one needs to build up from either the outer left or right in Taxing 4, because it's not possible to solve the level by going through the needle traps area due to the unforgiving trigger areas.
In Superlemmini, I think the trigger areas are smaller and are moved down, which is why most of the levels one needs to adjust the position of the exit so that the lemmings can exit. Similarly, for traps they need to be adjusted so that they function as usual.
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Also now instead of watching his youtube neolemmix replays, i will just watch Icho's pm replays, as they were for Lemmini and not neolemmix
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Also now instead of watching his youtube neolemmix replays, i will just watch Icho's pm replays, as they were for Lemmini and not neolemmix
Yes, it's better this way, as there's so many differences between the levels. I remember a few times from years ago when I wanted to see and compare my solution to a Reunion level, only to find that the NL version is much different from the Lemmini version, and so I couldn't. Also, I remember so many of the Nightmare levels being so tight on time that I wondered whether there are better ways to solve the levels than how I did them by saving more time. Since so many of the timers were removed on the NL version, I can't know for sure if the solution is supposed to be so tight on time in Lemmini. This is where I would love to see his replays for Lemmini, but I'll worry about that later.
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If you ever want Icho's ones he sent me, I could p.m them to you. just let me know. Even if you don't have time to watch them currently. at least you will have them for future reference use.
EDIT: I P.M.d Icho's ones look in your personal messages.
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also Now I started rank 3 Go West in Superlemmini. in neolemmix's version it is different too. Lemmini's version is more difficult. Now I'm glad to have his P.M. ones
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Thanks a bunch! Indeed, now that I have seen some of the replays several of the levels I really overcomplicated compared to Icho. I like to keep solutions simple, yet it seems that I have the bad tendency to overcomplicate them lol. That's why I like comparing solutions, because then sometimes I'm like, O.o, didn't think of that, oh, the other person's solution is much easier and better than mine, etc. Not always, though. Sometimes I feel like mine is only slightly better, but in most cases I have seen that my solution is much harder. Of course, as I have mentioned many times, I don't consider myself an extreme puzzle solver to the likes of the masters here, I'm just good enough to beat hard levels given enough time. Seems like many here consider me to be really good at solving, yourself included, and I'm honored that people think that, but again I don't consider myself elite status.
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Your Welcome. Once you get done with United and Icho is happy with your solutions, then I could P.M. you his United ones. But I want you to finish it so the backroutes will be taken to the Satisfaction of Icho. Then You can see his ones, just like the Reunion Ones. I know you mentioned you beat Lemmini's Reunion that is why I figured it was O.K. to give the Lemmini reunion ones.
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I appreciate it, but that won't be necessary. I'll ask Icho himself to send me them once I manage to get through United. Not to mention that it's a big IF. I'm starting to have doubts that I'll make it to the very end even though I'm now at the halfway point of the final main rank. Of course, you're more than welcome to still collect my replays as I continue to post in his topic, just for comparison. Probably going to take a while anyway. Anyway, I digress, and I look forward to reading your discussions on future Reunion levels and offering my input where necessary since I've seen and beaten all the levels at least twice on Lemmini (I revisited and went through the pack a second time on Lemmini about a year or two after I first beat it). Looking forward to seeing the finished converted pack on Superlemmini.
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ok, anyways it will still be a while to finish this Superlemmi conversion since I'm only in the 3rd rank and the levels are starting to become harder to do even though I have his Reunion replays. trying to get them exactly to work is somewhat harder. A lot of times precision is a must and sometimes just getting through it with his solution can be a little tricky. I can imagine the last 2 ranks will even be harder.
Note: Also I switched the music pack to neolemmix ones while i'm trying to do the levels. This way I know the neolemmix pack music works. So far so good.
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Again, it's your project, so take as much time as you need. I'm not in a rush to play this pack on Superlemmini. If I do get through United, I will most likely take a major break or even play other packs by other authors. Yes, a lot of the Reunion levels are nightmarish to pull off on Lemmini/Superlemmini compared to NL, largely thanks to how there's no skill shadows. Most of the time, the difficulty is not in the solution, but rather the execution of it.
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yes I will post comments about levels as I go along. but probably as edits. I don't want to make new posts for small comments. So If you want to see anything I would check here sometimes even though it will show farther down the line in the most recent posts.
and at least for now I don't have to deal with timed bombers. that at least will make it easier
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Yes, I've noticed that you tend to simply edit posts, which I don't have any problems with. Others might have issues with that, but rest assured I don't have problems with you doing that. Like you, to me it feels silly to simply make a new, small post, but that's just me personally. Anyway, I'll stop this back and forth posting and leave you to work on your project in peace. I'll be sure to come back to check on your remarks on the levels from time to time and offer my input/comments on them as I feel necessary. Happy solving and converting! ;)
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I'm going to still also watch his youtube channel ones as there might be backroutes fixed that I want in levels that are not different between neolemmix's and Lemmini's and are not in his Lemmini packs (ie level 3 rank 3 that I changed to have 2 less builders with a 60/60 save % where his pack was still 59/60).
The Level is the same just that a backroute is fixed. if the level is really different ie should everyone turn left then that's different then I will just go with the Lemmini one.
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ok
Level 16 (rank 3) Green Hill Zone only difference in Lemmini's version from neolemmix is Icho put a small white pole on top of the Big Sega A(backroute fix),
so I put that in Superlemmini's (I solved so have replay).
Level 19 (rank 3) To Hell and Back only difference is the diagonal steps near left exit have left facing one-way walls which will now be in Superlemmini's version (backroute fix)
Level 21 (rank 3) Field Trip he mentioned in youtube he added the one-way walls and steel plates(one-way walls are already there) but the 5 small steel plates weren't so I put in Superlemmini's version. There above 2 darts near left block of 2 sets of OWW's (sports tile set) (backroutes fixes).Also added 3 square steel plates at left of ones there already near top hatch. and I noticed 1 small one at end rightmost part where lemmings start. There are 2 bouncing ball traps above horizontal dart near leftmost OWW. So I added those.
issues: had to adjust certain spots of terrain to get this level to work as climber 2nd climber wouldn't work properly. Extended vertically terrain in 1 spot and had to adjust a couple spots of slanted slopes so climber wouldn't climb over. and one spot of slanted slope had to adjust so a basher would bash through.
This level was the problem child with issues in this rank.
Level 23 (rank 3) Sternenhimmel (which is the german word for sky full of stars) awesome a german title, and ZimtSterne (cinnimon stars) are german holiday christmas cookies which I still have some in my house I bought on amazon.com (not fond of them though). But this level is horrible to solve it requires absolute razor thin and I mean razor thin accuracy at the start of the level. I think it should be removed. especially in Lemmini and Superlemmini, maybe not neolemmix but here yes. this level isn't even a puzzle. it's just trying to get the first part right. too bad a german one turns out to be like this.
Level 25 (rank 3) Metropolis. I added another miner as the 1st climber when trying to bash that diagonal spot in icho's solution doesn't work in Superlemmini. so the miner will help him start then can bash. slope isn't steep enough for the basher.
Level 26 (rank 3) Evolve. Nothing too much here. probably the easiest level to execute in entire 3rd rank. did it 1st try. only 4 lemmings too. Just that this level is lengthy, otherwise, easy.
Level 27 (rank 3) Whispers and Lights. had to move hatch up so 1st two floaters can be slowed so first few lemmings were closely together so only 2 lemmings that go through the traps get squashed and 2 go through. of course this level had to start of at 99. put 1st 2 as floaters and as soon as 3rd lemming out of hatch lowered release rate back to min while paused of course. this one i had to use forward frame stepping slowly by just hitting left mouse button.1 frame at a time. but at least this one works. just had to get the timing. otherwise easy level.
added small left facing OWW on 2nd gate (backroute fix according to icho on youtube) and added 2 tiny slopes near right wall (acting as a blockade) so when bombing the first climber, 2nd lemming that made it through traps can hit wall before climbing turning left hitting 2 slopes then come back right to climb. I know this was added so 2 closing tight lemmings will have enough room so 1st one can bomb with 2nd one being able to build left on hole that 1st one made. (watch icho's youtube on this level to see what I mean).
Level 28 (rank 3) Dirty Work this level is difficult only because of the Multitasking. Using pause almost the whole level since there is so much going on. but after several attempts I got the replay. Not particular difficult in precision or even timing as long as you are prepared to pause alot to do multitasking skills through the level. As long as you pause all the time, level will not be that difficult to do. and there are no issues with the level either.
Level 29 (rank 3) Controlled Release had to expand level by 50 pixels so basher will exit screen and die. also the terrain there, the basher kept stop bashing because the terrain had some spaces, so made terrain solid. That basher is supposed to die as the save % is 20/30. I kept getting 21/30.
As far as solving the level. Not extremly difficult just had to make sure the blockers are far enough apart so that the builder will have enough time to build at least over the lower parts of gaps.
Level 30 (rank 3) only issue in this level was the traps had to be adjusted(especially the 3 not so visible ones to make sure they worked). I had to of course add the ,1 to epic styles for them.
As far as solving the level. of the first 3 rank finishers, this one was by far the easiest to work. Not really any problems. as long as you follow icho's solution this one is easy.
on to rank 4 (ultra-violence).
Notes for rank 4 (ultra-violence)
Level 1 Empyrean. according to Icho's youtube neolemmix version he added 2 blocks of left OWW above pole left of exit. also 1 block of steel left of exit on
same block of terrain
also Icho added a zapper on bottom floor near entrance on bottom floor right of the little "X"(probably a backroute fix) thus
changing save % from 39 to 38 out of 40 as the digger at beginning gets zapped as well as the bomber used above pole where added
OWW were added.
Issues: None
Level 2 As above so below. Really an easy level. took only 3 tries and thats only because I forgot to mine left low enough where digger goes down digging.
Issues: None
Level 3 Deadly Heights. Not Too Hard of a Level to Execute following correct solution.
Issues: had to slightly adjust traps where the builders build because they kept getting destroyed. I think in Superlemmini these traps have a bigger
Kill zone than Lemmini's
Level 4 Knights of the Round Table
Now this belongs in this rank. very tight time limit here. finished level with only 6 seconds left.
solving the level was tricky in the mining spots. the miners had to be in correct spots.also had to send the correct climbers from both sides.
the 4 on the left had to be 1st 2 climbers skip 1 then next 2 climb.(had to give enough time for first climber to mine when getting on 1st block.)
right side was 1st 2 climb(1st one to float and build to exit) 2nd one to mine far enough back to give builder enough time to build toward exit.
3rd climber on right side was 6th lemming(again had to give time for 2nd climber on right to mine so 3rd climber on right can turn around to mine
left) This level was a multi-tasking level too.
Issues:none
level 5 Sharing the World This level was not too difficult just had to get timing right of exploder from 1st climber and correct placement of builder on top
right so he leave a tiny space so other can land on 2nd climber on lefts tiny builder step through exploders pole.
Issues: none
Level 6 Tryhardlon This level is real different then neolemmix's version but I decided to keep the Lemmini version as Icho mentioned something about
changing the level for neolemmix because he thought the releasing of a blocker with the digger wasn't possible at first in neolemmix.
Also he thought it might be too precise in neolemmix.
As far as solving the level the only tricky part was the builder building toward the exit had to extend his builds in order to reach
platform.
The only thing I changed for Superlemmini's version was adding the OWW on the pole on bottom level below entrance. the other steel
I didn't add because the trick was using the diggers in 2 spots to release 2 different blockers and the steel would prevent the digger
action.
Issues: I exchanged a miner for a basher so (-1 miner +1 basher) because the miner when mining through OWW pole would turn around in
Superlemmini but not in Lemmini. so I used a basher there instead of the miner thus exchanging of the miner, basher.
Level 7 Choose a Side... Easy level. Quick one here. Just follow Icho's solution. Nothing else to say here. only thing different I did was mine the blocker before the basher so the top right lemmings landed on entire bridge before the basher got there.
Issues: none except I think should be in 1st rank.
Level 8 Ten Friends. A little tricky but still not that hard of a level. The trickiest part was mining inbetween those 2 steel blocks before the exit without
hitting steel.
Issues: None
Level 9 Specialists. This part with the blocker digger basher part on left part of screen was very tricky. took me many times to get it. the trick was to block
the 1st lemming then when the next lemming got into pit dig him when facing right releasing the blocker and immediatly bash the digger then both lemmings and all the others (floaters of course) will turn right. otherwise the rest wasn't too hard.
Issues: None
Level 10 Engage! Oh my Gosh, now that is hard. but got it. only had 22 sec remaining. the first few things to do were easy but almost immediatly, the release rate had to be put to 99. also that builder to provide a splat platform had to be placed exactly for the lemmings to land on last brick otherwise splat. and all the remaining lemmings barely make it to turn around from bashers spot at far left of level. other parts were not that hard but that level
definitely belongs in this rank. compared to some of the previous ones not really but this one definitely.
Issues:None
Level 11 It's closing time at the mall
ok a breather level not much to this level after the previous one. only tricky part was making sure the 2 lemmings going toward exit are not too
far apart and that the digger leaves more than 1 pixel above his dig (so 2nd climber won't climb over) so 2nd one can turn around and climb
digger pit back toward other lemmings to mine them home.
Issues: None
Level 12 The Bubble Cave
Not much to this level either. I can't even say what part was tricky as I don't think any part was. A short level too. Are we sure we are in Rank 4
Ultra-Violence(although I shouldn't open my mouth). Outside of levels 4 and 10 so far all these ones in this rank have been rather easy.
Issues:None. Just made sure to test all the suckers that they work, and they do.
Level 13 Electric Prison
again not much to this level as well. easy to execute. perhaps the only thing tricky is making sure to up release rates so remaining lemming don't
splat in digger pits.
Issues:None
Level 14 Neuschwanstein (Castle in southern germany, which disney used for the castle in the disney parks)
This level is very tricky, especially Lemmini's version which is different than neolemmix as he uses here the releasing of a blocker with digger(facing left toward lemmings) then immediate builder. Unlike the neolemmix one which is easier because he doesn't use this trick. Icho just adds a builder to turn one around (much easier). I decided to keep the Lemmini one (harder) also this is the 4th rank. I think in neolemmix's version as in Level 6 tryhardlon he mentioned he didn't think the trick would work, so it's easier in neolemmix's. and the reason for this trick here in Lemmini is because he had 1 less builder to use, so one had to do this trick to spare a builder. also when the builder lemming that goes towards others lemmings return with first lemming, he barely makes it onto 1st builders platform(also he had to extend the builds for the 2nd lemming to make it-very tricky). And then to finish level, the lemming who digs near exit(facing left) gets near left facing OWW's he builds a little way back but not too far as when he hits the OWW's he needs to bash low enough so left digger from digging on pole and being released by a blocker is just barely lower so lemmings can get over from left side of OWW's. also the left lemming barely finishes build into OWW's when right one lands on brick. very tricky. and the left digger has to be released at the exact moment for him to beat the right one. also just enough down when released by a blocker that the height needed is to keep remaining lemmings from splatting. Also this level I finished with only 19sec left.
Icho loves making his german titled ones difficult for some reason just like Sternenhimmel and I found Maschendrahtzaun, kinda hard too although only the 2nd rank.
Issues:None other than being hard
Level 15 Night of Nights.
I just love watching the solution of this level. probably one of my favorites once you solve it. a beauty.
but that ending part was so tricky. had to build last build spot on tiny edge to steel then after he turns around dig in such a spot that after he digs
far enough down to provide a splat ledge he gets blocked to be released from digging and then climbs back up and had to use frame skipping once
on top mine diagonally down left till he reaches last lone lemming. and the bridge at that spot has to be just left of the edge so that lone lemming
can get up on to miners opening. very tricky. other tricky part was at very beginning. one had to mine down right so it goes just on top of bridge
steps and continues bashing diagonally down the horizontally thru small poles and of course a 2nd climber comes to the spot just after 1st basher
finishes. the middle building part was easy. just the first and last parts were tricky.
Again watching this in action is a beauty of a level.
Issues:none
Level 16 The Three Seals of Memphis
This level is kinda dull 4 lemmings only 1 to be saved basically its just making sure to get the 3 small seals blown up with 3 of the lemmings
using a few skills to get them to each one. Nothing particular hard or interesting about this level.
Issues:None
Level 17 Generation Gap
This level was a moderate multitasking level. a few spots can be tricky if your not paying attention. had to restart several times because I forgot
to do a particular thing. But if you pause and see whats happening in level and take your time and follow the correct solution, the level is not that
difficult.
I noticed for some reason they gave you 12 builders(I think it was supposed to be 11 like neolemmix's) because the save % is 90/100 but by
having that 12th builder I got 91. maybe Icho put the wrong number of builders by mistake.
Issues:None
Level 18 Comming Through!
This level was rather easy as long as one follows icho's solution. the only thing to make sure is the 3 diggers going up to top right dirt is that the first climber is climbed but then don't send the next 2 as climbers until they make one trip to dirt turn around hit blocker then you can send the next 2.
the 1st climber needs a little time to dig so next 2 climbers dont go past digger.
Issues: None
Level 19 A.M.
this one only had 5 lemmings each comming out of 5 different hatches. a multitask but not too hard. just pause again so you don't
miss using a skill on a lemming.
Issues: had to add a small piece of terrain near leftmost hatch by that "T" because the lemmings couldn't get over that spot shown in
Icho's Youtube video. They kept turning around and stayed in that area.
Level 20 Lems go Cliffjumping
This level is the hardest level so far. This level belongs near the end of Nightmare. And this level is bad design. Needs to be fixed.
solving this level is not only extremely difficult, but requires extreme precision. Level must be done while pausing and using framestepping.
I can't even image doing this level in Regular Lemmini without framestepping. Also Multi-tasking to the extreme.
As far as solving the level, this one is too hard to even explain. The only thing I can say is the diggers at top have to be placed at exact spots
otherwise level fails. This level even when you know the solution and try to execute it even with pausing and framestepping is extremely difficult.
Issues: had to adjust OWW's. In editor had to move left ones left a few pixels and the right ones right a few because the bashers wouldn't bash
thru far enough when hitting the other OWW.
Also level is bad design.
Level 21 Rescue Team
This level wasn't too hard. It's just I spent more time editing this level as the OWW kept giving me fits because the bashers weren't bashing far
enough finally I got it to work. Just doesn't look the greatest. but it least they function. I think Superlemmini ones must work different than
Lemmini's. whenever there are OWW meeting but in different directions they seem to not work as intended, so editing them is more of a problem
Anyways as far as solving, for me the only part that was tricky was making sure the 2 climbers are not too close together so the 1st climber has
enough space to bomb for the 2nd climber up on left wall below left hatch. Just make sure to float the one that's going to be with the 1st climber.
This will make it so there will be time.
Issues: Again the issues are editing the opposite facing OWW's. This was the issue for making the bashers work right there. I spent too much time
getting this to work. but I finally made it work, just not the greatest looking.
Level 22 The Face of Evil
This Level is pretty easy using Icho's solution mainly because there are only 3 lemmings. Nice Puzzle. Now this is a level that should be a level
that could be a level up for votes as a level of the year(maybe it was, don't know). Awesome looking face too(although it's supposed to be evil i
guess)
Issues: had to expand level both vertically and horizontally (vert by 8 pixels-because climber lemming when climbing at beginning fell back
down) and (horiz by 50 pixels because lemmings would turn around right before exit).
Level 23 Eaten!
When Icho said in his Youtube channel this would be one of the easier levels in the rank. He sure wasn't kidding. Not only easy but quick.
No explanation needed here how to solve. This definitely is out of rank. should be in 1st rank.
Issues: None
Level 24 Heroes Of Lemkind
Icho said this was the Level of the Year for 2015. (In neolemmix can see it since in neolemmix it has unlimited time, but in Lemmini,
Superlemmini no). I would vote for it being a great level if Lemmini's version if it had 1 more minute because it is a good puzzle, but since here
in Lemmini it's a time cruncher that alone makes it not worthy. I finished level with 10 sec. and barely blew up last bomber before lemming
arrived. I couldn't really afford to release the lemmings with the miner much later as I would have run out of time. But as far as the puzzle
part of it, it wasn't too bad. The hardest parts were getting the lemmings to build on the chains at precise spots. Had to use forward
framestepping and pause. The only other hard part was trying to get the miner to release the lemmings. I had to do many times there because
it's so crowded. it seemed I always had the miner mine left instead of right onto builder steps. in neolemmix would be easier because of the skill
shadows.
Issues: None
Level 25 No Blocker Zone
This level wasn't too bad. I think the 1st part was harder than lining up the miner to mine through steps. that part just took a little practice to find
where to mine and how far down the digger needs to dig at first block. The 1st part was trickier for me, Trying to find the right height and time to
up the release rate so no lemmings splat. other than that this level was short.
Issues: None
Level 26 The Worship of the Pickaxe
This level was difficult because of the multi-tasking(although if you take your time using framestepping and pause it's not so bad).
what makes this level the hardest is the precise placement of the miners. If your off even a little bit either the miner won't get to the lemming in
the spot needed for the lemmings to get over the block where mined or the miner will mine past where he won't stop(ie down into the floor and
die especially the one going down left by rightmost squasher(miner must be almost right before edge of squasher or he will continue mining to
bottom floor without stopping. otherwise not so bad.
Issues:None
Level 27 Please Remember Us
This level is not so bad as long as you follow Icho's youtube solution. Just make sure to change the release rates at appropriates times to have the
proper lemmings turning left (6 from hatch turning left plus the basher so 7) and to make sure to bash left column with appropriate lemming.
I think those 2 things are the only 2 tricky parts. Also I like this level too.
Issues: added the right-facing OWW's on house just below hatch shown in Icho's Youtube video. No other Issues.
Level 28 Tomb of Ramses III
This is a Repeat Level Map of I'm Too Young Too Die Level 26 Tomb of Ramses II. But this one only has 8 lemmings but fewer skills to work
with. I don't think this one is extremely difficult either. Probably the trickiest part is mining down left through builders steps in the right spot so
the miner doesn't mine through floor. that part is precise. other than that the rest of the level is rather easy.
Issues: None
Level 29 Lemming Boxes
I just love this level. One of my favorites to watch the replay. not too hard to solve as long as you follow Icho's solution. Just use pause and
forward framestepping. the trickiest parts are to just make sure the all but 2 of the diggers on digging on edges of small poles so they can be
released by a blocker. if you dig just right on pole they'e will just turn into a blocker. other than that not hard to execute. kinda a time cruncher
but still finished with 29sec so not much of one as long as you follow correct solution.
Issues: None
Level 30 Only Nightmares Ahead
Ok, final level of rank. This one gave me the most trouble because first Lemmini's version is harder than neolemmix's. Here they give you one less
miner. so I was trying to get the blocker at start released by a digger instead. This was giving me fits. finally got it though. and the only other part
that was difficult was getting the builder lined up after digger built to right so miner can mine down to lower level near start. finally I solved it.
It's the precision of this part that makes the level difficullt and of course getting the blocker released by a digger. Neolemmix definitly easier. also
the mining onto the builders bridges is easier in neolemmix because of the skill shadows.
Issues: None other than being the hardest final rank so far. Although I know Nightmares will probably be harder.
Ok On to rank 5 (Nightmare) , final rank of pack
I think I will use this post to update level comments. so if there are further comments about levels just look for this post.
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Ok, sounds good ;)
edit with a tip for Hurt Me Plenty 21: Try adjusting the timing of when you assign the floaters. For example, instead of both near when they hit the ground, try when one is almost near the ground while the other one maybe before he falls off the starting platform. Also it might not be necessary, but you can also try adjusting the position of the first basher. That should help turn the second climber around.
edit 2: My bad. I realized that I could simply edit this post, not make a new one. I removed it and copied and pasted what I wrote to here. Weird. Also, I said to adjust when you assign the floaters, not the climbers. If you can't get it to work, perhaps I can take a look and try it myself if you're willing to send me the level file.
edit 3: Confirmed that it's possible for a climber to turn around in a basher tunnel in Superlemmini. I tested this on a Sublems level. Thus, you'll need to play around some more with the floater assignments. Like try assigning at some point while they're falling. All rightie, send it my way. In return, I'll give you a successful replay if I get it to work.
edit 4: Ok, sounds good. I'll be more than happy to help out, although my contributions will mostly be limited to solving the levels. I'll leave the level editing to you since it's your project, but on the level solving end I'll be glad to help out there wherever possible if you're not able to solve it yourself.
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yes i've done that because that is what Icho's video shows. both climbers are timed right. its just when he hits the bashers terrain he wont turn around.
I've tried adjusting terrain. nothing seems to work. I think it's the Superlemmini engine. also no matter where i bash the 2nd one either keeps wanting to climb up but fails or if I adjust the basher he will just climb over.
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yes i've done that with the floaters. 1st one right before he hits bottom and 2nd one right after he starts fall. when I said climbers are timed right I meant there in correct position after the floaters timing.
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if you want i can give you my whole level 21 along with all of Icho's styles required. music not an issue. just make sure to make a backup of your original styles folder or it will mess up your other packs. also if you want i can give you my 1.43f-c which has all the styles already so you can use that editor to fix it.
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actually i've .rar the whole reunion pack, icho's styles, and 1.43 i can upload this may have to do 3 post at least 2 since it will go over the 32.7mb. and if your willing may help me out to finish the pack but i'll leave that up to you.
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ok look in your personal messages. i pm you those(icho's styles, reunion pack and 1.43 with icho's styles in it). also original 21 since mine i've been playing with.
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also there are other issues with this level. climber will climb over ledge left of fall point. also he doesn't want to bash a diagonal slope.
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Ok yea, you're right, I can't get the second climber to turn around either. I also tested this on an ONML level, and indeed same thing happens when there's one pixel of ceiling above. A climber should not be able to climb through it. In this case, yea I think providing an extra miner is the best way to go about it. Alternatively, an extra basher can also do. Or, you can simply keep the Lemmini version and get rid of one floater and all but two of the diggers. Or, you can simply expand the terrain vertically so that when the basher bashes there'll be more ceiling above and then the climber will turn around properly.
Nevertheless, you gave me something to report to Tsyu about. I'll post the replay and ask him if this climber behavior was intended or not. Thanks for catching this. Of course, I'll credit you since you are the one who caught this first.
edit: All rightie, I have reported the behavior to Tsyu. Let's see what he says.
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also in other levels where you have 3 builders building a blockade the climber will still climb over the 3. I had to do a adjustment on 1st rank's final level also another level i cant remember now (i know it was a shadow one) he does the same thing. had to do an adjustment.
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I can confirm a climber still goes over the builder wall, but an adjustment shouldn't be necessary for the rank 1 finisher. See attached replay. Not sure why the steel isn't working, but if you position the builder and the miner correctly so that the miner goes through the builder bricks, you can get the miner to mine into the steel and turn around, and thus no need for any other adjustments.
edit: Also, the other level you made adjustments on is Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home. However, no adjustment is needed there either if you use my solution. See attached replay. This is the solution I used in Lemmini. If the climber doesn't climb over the pit I made at the beginning, then I would have two builders leftover, but since he does, that's why I used a spare builder to turn him around and hence I have one builder leftover.
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ok I finally got Field trip to work. there were spots again the stupid climber kept climbing over where he shouldn't be. 1 near where the floaters fall just too the left of bash area. another spot below pool table. sloped terain he climbs over. I slightly adjusted those spots so he would just turn around. and then of course I added the 1 extra miner. also on bottom left before rightmost oneway wall barrier the slope he can bash through so i made an slight terrain adjustment there so he would bash.
now that you have my pack and ichos style and 1.43 here is my level 21 field trip and replay
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yes i remember now the drunk lemmings on the way home(i knew it was a shadow level). I was only following icho's youtube video solutions. that's why I made those adjustments for those 2 levels with the 3 builder blockade.
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i downloaded the 2 replays, but neither work in Superlemmini(says Level in specified replay file doesn't exist) and in Lemmini says (wrong format) so I cant see yours at all.
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Odd. In Superlemmini, my replays loaded just fine for me. However, in Lemmini, they also come up with the Wrong Format message. So, not sure why they're not working for you. In any case, let me try them in Lemmini and then I'll send those. Just a moment.
edit: reattached the replays. See my previous post. Also not sure if you saw it, but I also suggested simply expanding the terrain vertically up for Field Trip.
edit 2: attached the replays for Lemmini as well. For the Disturbance in the Matrix level, it's not what I wanted to demonstrate, but if you're able to view the Superlemmini replay the miner should hit the steel and turn around. The steel doesn't work for me for some reason. Also, note that for Drunk Lemmings on Their Way Home level that that won't work in the current updated version of the level in Superlemmini due to the OWW. In any case, instead of doing it the way I did in Lemmini, I simply mined with the lemming and bombed the miner at just the right moment so that they can't climb out to the left. Hopefully you're able to see the Superlemmini replay this time.
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this message has happened to me before Not sure why?
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I redownloaded your new attached ones and reloaded original levels but for some reason only the drunk lemmings on the way home works. you didn't even use the 3 builders. you used a miner and a bomber and basher at beginning.
you had 1 builder left over at end of level
in neolemmix's version icho put right faceing arrows up to 1st building so I wanted to see if your replay still worked using that one in Superlemmini. yes it still works.
the disturbance in the matrix starts off doing a few things but then nukes.
Also I used the original 2 levels since I think by using the altered ones that is why they say level doesn't exist in replay
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Also the replay I used in Superlemmini for Drunk Lemmings on the way home is the same replay in neolemmix's version which uses 3 builder one. in Superlemmini this solution wouldn't work. I think the one with 3 builders is the intended solution one because it's not only in neolemmix's version of reunion. but also if you watch icho's on youtube he mentions the 3 builder solution at beginning. that's why I altered it.
also if you watch icho's pmd one in lemmini I gave you it also shows the 3 level builder one. so in Superlemmin, Tsyu needs to fix this too as this solution doesn't work in Superlemmini
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I redownloaded your new attached ones and reloaded original levels but for some reason only the drunk lemmings on the way home works. you didn't even use the 3 builders. you used a miner and a bomber and basher at beginning.
you had 1 builder left over at end of level
in neolemmix's version icho put right faceing arrows up to 1st building so I wanted to see if your replay still worked using that one in Superlemmini. yes it still works.
the disturbance in the matrix starts off doing a few things but then nukes.
Also I used the original 2 levels since I think by using the altered ones that is why they say level doesn't exist in replay
For the Disturbance in the Matrix, there's nuking because I nuked the level. For some reason, the steel doesn't work on that level, but if you want you could simply use my replay and finish off the level as usual. The purpose of my replay is to show you that there's no need to modify the level even though a climber is able to get through the builder wall, because if you position the builder and the miner correctly, the miner will go through the builder bricks and hit the steel, turning him around. Just make sure to release the blocker with a basher before the climber hits the blocker and turns around again.
For the Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home, again the purpose of the replay is to show you a different way of solving the level. That's the solution I first used on Lemmini, and interesting that it still works even with the OWW on Superlemmini. Unfortunately, there's not really anything that can be done to block off my solution, and so it'll just have to be accepted as an alternative.
Ultimately, it's your call at the end of the day. Glad to hear that you finally got Field Trip to work.
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yes i think I have made the decision for Drunk Lemmings on the way home. I will put original one back and accept yours as the solution. but I forgot to add the OWW to it which I will do. why not. Superlemmini has the climber issue and basher issue in Field trip on sloped terrain anyways, so that is altered. so I might as well use your solution. also I think I like that solution too better. I think fewer people know about the 3 builder thing anyways and it is only in the beginning of hey not too rough (rank 2)
Edit: I now have the OWW's in it. this will still fix a different backroute. just not yours.
Edit2: I have officially put level back and put your replay in my replays folder for HeyNotTooRough as the solution and deleted the 3 builder one.
so when this pack gets uploaded for others. people will have to use your solution. it's better this way anyways since 3 builder one wont work.
I'm going to do your solution in neolemmix-reunion and post it in see if Icho mentions anything about that solution(he may not even deal with it since reunion I think is no longer in his radar). and yes probably nothing can be done with your solution anyways unless he does something using pickup skills so one doesn't have the miners until after getting through first building. but even if he fixes it that way in neolemmix, I will not deal with that backroute fix in Superlemmini since pickups are not in Superlemmini.
Edit: i tryed to do yours in neolemmix but after starting miner and exploding him other lemmings still won't be blocked from going left. I think in neolemmix bombers explosions are not big enough compared to Lemmini's or Superlemmini's so nevermind about posting yours for Icho.
Ok here is my level 9 (Rank 2) Drunk Lemmings on the way Home and replay. I had to solve again using your solution because it wasn't playing the shadow music. since your replay is the same solution but you don't have the music yet, it played random level music. not sure what music my replay will do in yours, but in mine the Icho's neolemmix reunion11(shadow music)
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and for rank 1 level 30 I just added an extra builder to original level and deleted my altered one. by adding the extra builder the climber won't climb past a 4 builder one.(i think this solution is more intended for the builder wall). and if by adding an extra builder creates a backroute I'm not worried about it since it's only rank 1 and usually Icho gives more freedom in the 1st rank levels anyways)
ok i've included the original level but with an extra builder and my replay for last level (rank 1). I will just go with this one for the pack.
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also I really appreciate your help in the solving of levels as I want this Superlemmini pack to be a joy for everyone, especially when they can choose to play it with untimed bombers and music from neolemmix's version(superlemmini allows more options.). It's just too bad Superlemmini still has these issues with the climber and the basher not bashing on mildly sloped terrain. hopefully the next release by Tsyu will be better in this regard.
also I've changed level 21 hurtmeplenty (field trip) to extend vertical terrain so 2nd climber will turn around. I think this one is the best choice. so I removed 1 miner now to match level as it originally was.
Level ends up with 1 climber, 1 floater, 1 digger.
here is my level 21 and replay
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so in Superlemmin, Tsyu needs to fix this too as this solution doesn't work in Superlemmini
Ah yes. In the process of reporting the climber goes through one pixel ceiling bug, I totally forgot about reporting the builder wall to Tsyu as well. I'll do that in a bit. Again, I will credit you for discovering this.
edit: done!
and for rank 1 level 30 I just added an extra builder to original level and deleted my altered one. by adding the extra builder the climber won't climb past a 4 builder one.(i think this solution is more intended for the builder wall). and if by adding an extra builder creates a backroute I'm not worried about it since it's only rank 1 and usually Icho gives more freedom in the 1st rank levels anyways)
Good call! :thumbsup: The turning around upon hitting steel is really inconsistent anyway. In Lemmini, the lemming doesn't turn around when mining/bashing into steel, but he does in Superlemmini and NL. Also, with the extra builder, one could simply build with the climber to turn him around rather than add a 4th layer to the builder wall, ie, let the climber build just before reaching the builder wall so that he hits his head and turns around. Nevertheless, this should be ok since it's close enough to the solution of adding a 4th layer to the builder wall anyway.
yes i think I have made the decision for Drunk Lemmings on the way home. I will put original one back and accept yours as the solution. but I forgot to add the OWW to it which I will do. why not. Superlemmini has the climber issue and basher issue in Field trip on sloped terrain anyways, so that is altered. so I might as well use your solution. also I think I like that solution too better. I think fewer people know about the 3 builder thing anyways and it is only in the beginning of hey not too rough (rank 2)
Edit: I now have the OWW's in it. this will still fix a different backroute. just not yours.
Edit2: I have officially put level back and put your replay in my replays folder for HeyNotTooRough as the solution and deleted the 3 builder one.
so when this pack gets uploaded for others. people will have to use your solution. it's better this way anyways since 3 builder one wont work.
Sounds good! ;) Truth be told, it never occurred to me to even use the builder wall when I first solved the level on Lemmini years ago, and the miner/bomber was the very first solution I found. However, there is also an inconsistency here, and that is my Superlemmini solution appears to not work in Lemmini. It appears that the bomber hole in a miner tunnel is just like NL's in that lemmings will still walk out to the left. So, this would mean that Superlemmini's physics is very inconsistent compared to the other two engines. Therefore, the only way the solution will work in Lemmini is by mining to the left and then bombing, but when the OWW is added then my solution won't work. Also, in Lemmini's case, my solution is much harder to pull off due to timing the bomber at the right time and the positioning of the miner. At the same time, IIRC Superlemmini physics is based off of Amiga's, and I'm not sure if these inconsistencies also show up in Amiga. However, it's important to note that it's based off of Amiga, which doesn't mean that it's supposed to emulate Amiga in every single aspect and so it's ok for it to be slightly different.
also I really appreciate your help in the solving of levels as I want this Superlemmini pack to be a joy for everyone, especially when they can choose to play it with untimed bombers and music from neolemmix's version(superlemmini allows more options.). It's just too bad Superlemmini still has these issues with the climber and the basher not bashing on mildly sloped terrain. hopefully the next release by Tsyu will be better in this regard.
also I've changed level 21 hurtmeplenty (field trip) to extend vertical terrain so 2nd climber will turn around. I think this one is the best choice. so I removed 1 miner now to match level as it originally was.
My pleasure. I enjoy Superlemmini just as much as you do, and it's still my preferred engine of choice out of the others, so I really appreciate all the packs you have converted to Superlemmini. Granted, I haven't played through any of the converted packs yet, but I certainly will once I'm done with some NL packs. Really, the solutions I sent you were merely meant to demonstrate that it won't be necessary to make other adjustments and thus saving you some unnecessary work, as well as provide you with a different solution to the level that I myself found. That's why it's so much fun to compare solutions with others imo. In any case, I'm glad that they have been helpful in helping you make informed decisions on some of the levels. Ultimately, it's your call at the end of the day as to what you do with the levels, since it is, after all, your project, and I have to respect your decisions. In a way, you can say I'm like a "pre-tester."
I certainly didn't mean to drag out the conversation like this and slow your progress, so forgive me there. I just occasionally see comments on some of the levels you're working on and then I think, hey, I think eric would be interested in seeing an alternative solution that I found when I played the pack on Lemmini back sometime ago. Hopefully, there won't be any further levels that will differ significantly from Icho's intended NL solution. Not to mention a lot of my solutions wouldn't work anyway with the updated pack in NL.
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I have a little program that plays all the amiga versions of Lemmngs. a nice little one I found online called Lemmings anthology. it's just a single executable file. I would post it but I'm not allowed to because Namida mentioned it has a donate button. and it got removed in the past.
anyways i started it up again to test the builder wall in a random fun level (origins and lemmings) entered the password to access level and build a builder wall. I found it does take 4 builders to stop a climber so I think maybe Tsyu's answer to that question is yes it is intended since he wants Superlemmini to be close to Amiga's version. But I'm not totally sure. maybe he'll come back and say it's not intended. of course Tsyu seldom comes online much. so the answer could come after a long time. but who knows. once I posted something and Tsyu responded within 2 hours.
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Oh, that's what happened to it! I remember the program being posted here but then one day I couldn't find it anymore. Well, no worries about it. I managed to find an amiga emulator so I can fire that up anytime I wish. Thanks for confirming the climber/builder wall.
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if you google it, you can get it. just enter lemmings anthology in search bar. it will say it's by "The Company" you can download it there. it's cool. it plays all the amiga ones. orig, ohno, xmas 91,92 holiday93,94, demo version, it even plays new years lemmings (5 levels), lemmings tribes. and lemmings 3.
anyways just finished level 24 so far so good. but level 23 Is horrid. shouldn't even be a level. it's not even a puzzle. it's just trying to get the diggers placed extremely in exact positions on poles otherwise level fails. it took many tries to get that first part right, then rest of level is easy.
the level is Sternenhimmel(what a german title being that bad). anyways Sternenhimmel means in english sky of stars. Sterne means stars.
Zimtsterne(cinnimon stars) are german christmas cookies. I bought some on amazon.com. don't really care for them though.
anyways that level I think is ridiculous, not even a puzzle. Shouldnt even be in Superlemmini or even Lemmini. To Me that level just for that first part should be in last rank since it's extremely difficult just to get started.
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if you google it, you can get it. just enter lemmings anthology in search bar. it will say it's by "The Company" you can download it there. it's cool. it plays all the amiga ones. orig, ohno, xmas 91,92 holiday93,94, demo version, it even plays new years lemmings (5 levels), lemmings tribes. and lemmings 3.
Got it. Thanks! :thumbsup:
anyways just finished level 24 so far so good. but level 23 Is horrid. shouldn't even be a level. it's not even a puzzle. it's just trying to get the diggers placed extremely in exact positions on poles otherwise level fails. it took many tries to get that first part right, then rest of level is easy.
the level is Sternenhimmel(what a german title being that bad). anyways Sternenhimmel means in english sky of stars. Sterne means stars.
Zimtsterne(cinnimon stars) are german christmas cookies. I bought some on amazon.com. don't really care for them though.
anyways that level I think is ridiculous, not even a puzzle. Shouldnt even be in Superlemmini or even Lemmini. To Me that level just for that first part should be in last rank since it's extremely difficult just to get started.
Oh gosh! When I saw the title of the level, I was like I definitely will comment, because eric's going to love my story here. When I first played that level on Lemmini, I would learn that I ended up considerably overcomplicating the solution years later. So rather than bash to free the blockers, my setup is extremely difficult to pull off in that I had the digger pits and builders all set up so that I could use one miner to free all of them. The problem of course is that since there are several poles you would have to do it all correctly, because one too high or too low and the miner won't get through all of it. Now that I have seen the solution, much easier to just bash all the blockers free. Given how my solution is very difficult to do, I'm not even sure if I want to do it ever again, but if I ever do play it again and I get it working, I'll definitely send you my replay. Too bad I never saved it, though. Perhaps if it's still possible, I'll just do it on NL since it's much easier due to skill shadows. Amazing how that's the first solution I even came up with for the level.
edit: the heck? Challenge accepted! See replay. This is for Lemmini.
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yes i see that. at least that's 2 lined up builders so miner can miner through middle pole. that part reminds me of the 2nd to last level of neolemmix's franlems sadistic level 9 (Queztalings) that i did from dodochacalo. that one I think is the hardest one in the pack to line up the builders steps so miner can mine through 2 stairs going through middle pole. and that is for neolemmix too. It took me 3 days to get the solution to work exactly
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I can definitely tell that you get a kick out of seeing my solution replays. Another thing they do is they show you other ways of solving the same level. Having multiple solutions is not necessarily a bad thing, but rather they can potentially show you what can be done on a level. It's important to keep an open mind. After all, the more ways you know to do the same thing, the better. I see this in my students all the time. I show multiple methods of solving the same math problem, and then the students can simply take their pick on what they think is easiest for them to do the problem. It's the same thing with solving levels in lemmings. Unless one intended solution has been specifically enforced, it's very unlikely people will solve the same level in the exact same way.
yes i see that. at least that's 2 lined up builders so miner can miner through middle pole. that part reminds me of the 2nd to last level of neolemmix's franlems sadistic level 9 (Queztalings) that i did from dodochacalo. that one I think is the hardest one in the pack to line up the builders steps so miner can mine through 2 stairs going through middle pole. and that is for neolemmix too. It took me 3 days to get the solution to work exactly
I have definitely forgotten about this level. It's been a really long time since I've played Franlems. Now that I have taken a look at the level again, yes it's one of those that's very difficult to set up correctly. It's not a hard level, because the solution is easy. It's the execution of the solution that's very difficult. Thus, this is a really good example of a level where finding the solution is easy, but the execution is very hard. I likened this to computer problems. Often times, it's much easier to identify the problem, but finding a fix/solution is much harder.
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just finished with last rank of neolemmix music level pack into superlemmini. was doing 1 rank a day as it takes a bit of time to do. will test 1 rank a day of superlemmi's music compared to neolemmix version(up to rank 3 of course since I'm almost done converting up to rank 3 only). just to make sure it matches neolemmix version. Of course I have lemmini's version music level pack too. so when this pack gets finished being converted and tested one last time, it will be uploaded. One can then play the pack with either Lemmini's or Neolemmix's music
EDIT: 1st rank done, Matches (tomorrow will test rank 2).
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ok, rank 3 is finished, put notes for levels of rank 3, started from level 16, see page 3 for the notes.
ONWARDS AND UPWARDS. Oh boy now comes the hard ones I know. Ultra-violence now (rank 4) of 5.
Notes will always be on page 3. I put them there about levels as I go. So If you want to see progress just go to page 3
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slowly making progress already in rank 4 finished 1st 10 levels of rank. To See my progress just look at page 3 to see how I'm doing. also I put down notes about levels such as backroute fixes that icho has in his youtube video. also if there are any issues with a level.
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level 9 Drunk Lemmings on their way home I got your solution to work in neolemmix. only difference Is I had to use final builder because the basher bashes like 1 pixel to low under house and wants to keep bashing through slope after that building. (see replay in neolemmix version) I posted it there because I want to see what Icho says about this backroute. only way for the bomber to work at beginning was to get miner to mine just a tad lower than bash and then get another lemming to bomb making it so no other lemmings walk up left and over.
Edit: Icho said he would accept this one in neolemmix as an alternative as a fix would be ugly.
Good that makes me happy now knowing that Icho would accept it so now we know this solution for superlemmi can be marked as good.
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See my replay for Ultra-Violence 10 - Engage! It's pretty much the same, except instead of bashing to the left at the top, I bash to the right. The only tricky thing was not knowing if the two lemmings would turn around before the basher in the lower part was done. Note that this is the Lemmini version since the OWW isn't there, but this solution should still work in Superlemmini and NL even with the OWW. Thus, this is simply a timing heavy precise solution and you don't need to increase the RR almost right away, although you'll still need to increase it at some point to avoid running out of time.
Oh, I also appreciate that you credited me with the solution for Hey, Not Too Rough 9 - Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home. Good thing Icho and I had the same thought of simply accepting it as an alternative.
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yes that is different. I do notice your solution ended up with 13 seconds left where Ichos one I followed was 22 seconds but I think yours is easier. also I didn't see the OWW's in the level so I'm going to add them. Yes those OWW would'nt stop either solution. Since i'm adding the OWW it will make my replay invalid. anytime one changes a level the replay fails because the exit will change back again also the traps. I've notice this happens when I added things in previous levels I've edited. So when I try again I'll use your solution and see what happens.
EDIT: I can't seem to find the OWW's in that level in the editor: I'm not sure if it's object 8 and 9 (looks different) but the ones that look like that in the level in neolemmix and youtube are not in the editor. and I don't want to mess up a replay I have if it is not the OWW's so I think I'll just leave them out.
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Ok, ranks 1-3 neolemmix music pack for Superlemmini matches.
Also I was thinking again about Kaywhn's NotSoRough level 9 Drunk Lemmings on the way home.
I've decided to add 1 more builder to the level(total 7 instead of 6) to allow for the intended solution. It's just now it takes a 4 builder wall to stop the climber
from climbing the builder wall. But it still allows Kaywhn's solution to work too. So both Kaywhn's solution and the intended one work. intended one uses all skills as intended. Kaywhn's solution just ends up with 2 builders. I think Icho kinda made me think that Kaywhn's was ok as an alternate but he said it was more difficult.(in neolemmix definitely) not in Superlemmini though as the bomber explosion is bigger. And I'm ok with adding another builder regardless if a
backroute happens. It's is only in the early stages of the 2nd rank anyways.
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I was going through Icho's Regular Lemmini replays 1 rank a day today was HurtMePlenty. In his replays, A christmas journey, as soon as that digger started digging up on top of poles with OWW's it crashed, so what I did was interrupt the replay right at that point and finished level and resaved it. tested it again, replay is now good in Regular Lemmini. also he misspelled Christmas, he spelled it Chirstmas, so I corrected the spelling. also I resaved the .ini file with the new spelling for both regular and Superlemmini.
Anyways if you want the lemmini replay for "A christmas journey" (regular lemmini) and the new .ini with the correct spelling of "Christmas" here they are.
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ok, final rank of Superlemmini, Rank 4 (ultra-violence is finished). got all the replays.
Onto Final rank of pack
Summary of rank 4. I found for the most part this rank easy outside of Level 20 (Lems go cliffjumping-extremely difficult) and
the final level. The hardest to execute of the first 4 final ranks to execute.
Ok on to rank 5(Nightmare), I hope these are not too bad when you know the solution by Icho on his youtube channel or if needed by his Lemmini replays.
I'm looking forward to finishing not only this rank but the pack so i can make a quick final run before uploading it to The Forum.
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ok also I think I will Use this post for Rank 5 instead of keep adding to other one. so you can check this post for the progress I'm doing for the final rank.
Also hopefully they won't drag me down. I think more of an issue with the levels is not so much solving them(because I do check Icho Channel but also have his Lemmini replays) but when there are issues with the level that I have to deal with in the editor.
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Hey eric, I just wanted to voice my congrats on finishing the conversion of the first 4 ranks of Reunion. I been checking up on your progress from time to time by checking page 3 of the topic, and I got to say that's definitely some detailed, copious notes you have on each of the levels. However, I do agree with you that perhaps you should keep all the Nightmare ranking notes on this current page, separate from the others. Now that I think about it, perhaps an even better idea would had been to keep each ranking in a separate post, i.e, all of rank 1 in one post, all of rank 2 in another post, etc. I admit that due to how you have both ranks 3 and 4 in the same post I got really annoyed with having to scroll down so much to find your notes on each new level. Or, perhaps you could even maintain an Excel spreadsheet, but the biggest problem is that you would have to repeatedly keep reattaching the file, so instead of doing that you could maybe just attach when you have a ranking done. Of course, with this way I won't be able to see your own notes on the levels and then I offer my input on the levels if I remember something interesting about them.
Something that I need to point out, though.
Summary of rank 4. I found for the most part this rank easy outside of Level 20 (Lems go cliffjumping-extremely difficult) and
the final level. The hardest to execute of the first 4 final ranks to execute.
I know what you're saying, but just so you know they're not "final ranks." Ranks are not levels, they're difficulty ratings. Instead, the level you're describing is the "final level of the rank," "rank finisher," etc. And yes, I agree with you that the Ultra-Violence rank finisher is much harder than the previous 3 rank finishers. Hey, that sounds like what I said about the rank 4 finisher being the hardest out of the previous 3 rank finishers of United lol. Of course, I have yet to see the final level of the pack, but I'm not going to be surprised if it's way harder than all the other rank finishers. What will be surprising is if I found it easy compared to them.
Ok on to rank 5(Nightmare), I hope these are not too bad when you know the solution by Icho on his youtube channel or if needed by his Lemmini replays.
I'm looking forward to finishing not only this rank but the pack so i can make a quick final run before uploading it to The Forum.
The Nightmare ranking would definitely take you forever if you didn't have access to replays. Not only are the levels super huge, they're also very complex puzzles that have so many possibilities to try. Of course, I don't have any problems with you taking your time on this project, as I'm not in a hurry to play this pack on Superlemmini, but I still look forward to seeing the finished product. That makes me wonder. In the process of converting Reunion to Superlemmini, how many of the levels have you seen where you have said, "Wow, I never would had come up with that myself while solving the level"? I know you have said over and over that you're very glad that you have replays.
With all that has been said, good luck converting all of of the Nightmare ranking. From what I remember, almost every level in the ranking was a huge time crunch. The biggest one of all would be Rise of a Digital Nation, which I believe is Nightmare 24. You will always finish that level with only a few seconds left. Also, knowing you and if your statement of being lousy at level solving is any indication, you probably will get very frustrated with Nightmare 29, or perhaps being put off altogether and maybe not even attempt solving it due to the sheer huge size of the level and the fact that it has a 16 minute time limit. Luckily, it's not super tight on time, but it can be if you just mess around. I think my best completion time of the level had around 2 minutes remaining. Another thing is that although skills are quite tight, it's still a pretty open-ended level for the end of the Nightmare ranking. You can see this in Icho's replay where he still has some skills leftover. For example, it's definitely possible to save more lemmings than what it requires. If this is the case, if you want I offer to solve the level for you and then I'll send the replay to you. I've completed the level twice over the last 3 years on Lemmini. At the same time, I still encourage you to at least attempt it since then all the replays will be your own. If after a lot of time you cannot get the solution to work, only then will I step in and solve it for you. I know you can do it, though.
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when solving levels to me it's not so much the size of the level. if the size is huge but the level execution is not so bad then I can deal with the size.
I'd rather have a large easy execution one than 1 small hard one. probably the thing that annoys me the most is Superlemmini doesn't have backward framstepping like neolemmix. because one small error and you have to watch the replay over up to the point you made the error. and if that error is in a huge size level that is extremely annoying. but at least every one you get correct you don't have to do over just have to watch the replay over to that point you messed up. And as far as solving the level if I see it's the same as Icho's youtube ones then what I do is just do every skill one at a time and do it in superlemmini. so I just take my time and do each one in steps. for example: maybe he says here ok lemming 1 do this, so I pause the video and repeat it in Superlemmini, then pause Superlemmini, continue slowing with video and repeat next action, and so forth until the level is solved. I can't just even break it down into say 5, because I'll forget the action.
but what got me annoyed about the rank finsher 4 is It looked the same so when I got to the last part I found out I didn't have a miner. then I realized it had to be lemmini's version so instead of mining the blocker lemming with a miner I had to start over and get in unblocked with a digger instead.
sometimes in his videos he doesn't mention lemmini's is different otherwise I would've just used the lemmini replay to begin with.
But I'm not in a hurry either. I'm just going to take my time. and when I start a Level I just don't go into trying to solve it. since I'm testing the exits and traps what I do in the editor is put a hatch near the exit and/or traps and make sure they work because I don't want to try to solve it then at the end the exit fails. Once I know the exit and the traps work, then I go back and remove the hatchs from the editor and resave. then I go and solve it using videos and ichos replays if their different than neolemmix's
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Not all huge levels are easy to execute, though. If this is the case, then this sounds like the kind of level that is the worst combination for you. Nightmare 29 is such an example. In particular, it's very nightmarish (no pun intended) to pull off in Lemmini/Superlemmini due to no skill shadows and how the miner trick needs to be done several times in the level in different places. Also, without replays it's difficult to say whether a solution is easy to execute or not without having sat through it for some time and played around with it. Most importantly, you need to keep in mind that being able to come up with the solution on your own is very different than seeing it in a replay without having attempted solving the level for a period of time first. I myself get a lot of satisfaction from solving difficult levels on my own before watching replays. That's why I don't mind being stuck on a level for a long time, and I always resist the urge to peek at a replay. I know that you have said several times that you admire my patience and perseverance in solving levels. Then often times, when I watch a replay to a level that I have completed, most of the time I find myself going, "Oh gosh, I can't believe I never thought about doing that. So much easier than what I did." Not always, but most of the time I found myself saying that.
Looking forward to seeing more notes from you regarding the Nightmare levels. You definitely have been working hard on the conversion the last few weeks.
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Tested rank 4s music to neolemmix's in that levelpack and it matches
Rank 5 Nightmare
Level 1 From Unrest to Antrophy
The hardest thing about this level is just making sure to start the diggers on left upper and right upper part before the worker lemming even gets to
mine the pole that has OWW's on it or you will run out time. also the digger lemming on right side has to be the climber otherwise if you don't pick
him he'll climb back up back toward water and won't make it back. also he would splat.
Issues: had to move up that tiny slope by water on right side because that stupid cliimber again wants to climb over that. Tsyu needs to address
this.
Level 2 Castle Rush
This level has to be precise not only in actions but also timing. What I have to do from now on in Nightmare levels is first check for the differences
in neolemmix's version to correct backroutes (ie add OWW's,etc) then instead of watching Youtube's video I will have Lemmini and Superlemmini's
windows open and slowly watch Icho's Lemmini replay and follow exactly it in Superlemmini right down to the finest of details(ie exact placement
of actions, timing, release rate changes) and use forward framestepping and pause in Superlemmini.
Anyways as far as solving this level, yes I had to use Icho's Lemmini replays and follow it in Superlemmi right down to the finest of details, I mean
within pixels, clock management etc. and as long as I did this the level worked. but yes I can see the differences already in the first two levels in
this rank already over the previous ranks.
Issues: None
Level 3 Lemming City Stories
Again used Icho's replay and slowly did everything precise in Superlemmini. This one wasn't so bad because I had 57sec left when level finished.
probably the most difficult thing is making sure digger on far left is close enough to edge below so he can be released by a blocker. other than that
there wasn't too many difficult things about it.
Issues: None
Level 4 Stop and Go!
This level has a major problem with diggers unblocking blockers (I think it's Superlemmini's physics that are not the same as Lemmini's)
kinda like the climber climbing over 1 pixel ceilings. I've spent hours on this level. There are times the blocker is practically on i pixel where his
one foot is hanging is space. I don't think that is supposed to happen. but finally i got a funky replay where the blocker is supposed to block on
left diggers pit until builder to left exit is almost done building then release that blocker with a digger.
my replay is where there is a super thin(almost looks like a piece of thread) barrier and the blocker in the middle with lemmings on both sides)
Kinda looks like the one in SterneHimmel where the blocker is in the middle with lemmings on both sides blocked by thin barriers.then i release
the blocker with the digger(on left side of blocker). I know this is not the intended solution but since it worked I'll take it since I think the physics
in Superlemmini may not work correctly with the diggers unblocking blockers. I had no problem with the other ones just for some reason with the
blocker in left diggers pit could never get unblocked no matter what I did.
I'm just going to move on from this level, at least I have a replay that worked(even a funky one)
also I saw Icho's Lemmini replay on this level to see where blocker is there. I've had the blocker in that position before and Superlemmini
wouldn't let me unblock him there, because it's too close to steel.
Edit: i'm thinking of maybe exchanging a basher for 1 of the diggers in this level. but i'll hold off for now. I'll think about for a while. and I
reported this behavior to Tsyu
Edit 2: I've just noticed neolemmix's version is different. I'm going to use neolemmix's version since their Icho mentioned something about this
level having a lot of patches.
UPDATE:
Ok Superlemmini will now use the Neolemmix version of Level 4 stop and Go. This is much better as now there are no Issues
This version has a different skill set (still must use them all to solve). Now 3 miners are in this version. also this one has added steel to terrain
Now there is less time to solve from 3 minutes to 2 min 40 sec. but this isn't even an issue as I finished level still with 30 seconds.
Level 5 Four Pals
Ok this one is a super easy one. the only thing you have to make sure of is miner mines right 2 small poles back instead of right at edge of
barrier and basher bashes right at lowest part of snow at bottom area to keep lemmings somewhat close together as this is a must so builder
has time to build over gap toward exit.
Oh Added right facing OWW's on pole lemmings land on according to Icho's video
Issues: None
Level 6 Brick Confusion
ok what makes the level hard is the timing of the floaters. 1st let the 1st lemming float, then pause set RR to 99 do framestepping and as soon as you
see the next one out the set RR back to 1 so the 2 will be close together as only 1 can get sucked by the sucker. And the only other part
that gave me trouble is getting that blocker on end of builders step so builder will turn right(after several attempts I finally got it). all the other
steps in icho's solution not that hard. and if you do everything correct time won't be an issue as I finished level around 38 seconds left.
Issues:None
Level 7 Tactical Foul
Ok, I have one question for you, why is this in Nightmare rank? Should be maybe only beginning part of 2nd rank or end of 1st. the puzzle is
super easy to execute. did it 1st try. Not even a time cruncher. I didn't even find 1 part tricky.
maybe only to make sure athlete builds not at edge to reach barrier there to build so the released lemmings don't splat.
Maybe this level is here in this rank because the're on their way home drunk. (which is harder than this puzzle)
Issues: Level doesn't belong in this rank.
Level 08 Up and Down the Shafts.
ok. This is a nice puzzle. This one isn[t too tough to execute. probably the trickiest parts were the 2 mining actions. 1st one at upper hatch
when its time to mine that blocker away so upper crowd can drop down to lower level. Again it's so crowded up there sometimes its hard to get
the miner to mine right also back enough so no lemmings splat(in neolemmix would be easier because of skill shadows) and the other miner
action near the exit. must mine left down close to that square steel block(without hitting it) because if you don't get close to steel block miner
will continue mining through floor. other than those 2 things rest of level is easy to execute.
Issues: None
Level 09 Pipe Grid Puzzle
Ok this level is just a timing puzzle. everything must be timed just at the right time. also the group of non-worker lemmings have to be
released early enough so you don't run out of time as there is only 2 minutes. the puzzle part is easy. it's just timing everything right. It took
several tries. But I got it. Probably the trickiest part is when to make a lemming a climber so last 2 builder lemmings will get to exit.
Issues: None. Of course I made sure all the suckers work.
UPDATE: I watched Icho's youtube video on this level. He said it was problematic with so many backroutes to fix. So I made these fixes for
for Superlemmi. This isn't a different version, it's just backroute fixed. Solution is the same and skillset is the same.
UPDATE2: This level is still a problem level as it still can be backrouted.
Level 10 Shadowrun
Wow I had 1 second left when last lemming exited. Of course I saw Icho's replay for regular Lemmini his replay only had 3 seconds.
and his neolemmix replay had 6 seconds. He mentioned in his channel as long as you do his solution, time will not run out but sure cuts it close
He must have spent some time on designing this one. I found only 1 tricky part though (getting the right lemming to start digging from hatch)
I found out when framstepping and pausing as soon as you see 12 lemmings out dig the starting lemming. That will make it so 2 lemmings are in pit
1 will go right and 1 left. The rest of the level was easy to execute, just had to use pause since it's a minor multitask (left side lemmings and 2 right
side ones) I can't even see a backroute on this one since time is extremely tight
I added the small right-facing OWW's on upward slope just left and below hatch that's in neolemmix(he said that part was a backroute fix)
Issues: again climber issue: had to raise that tiny slope near right-most OWW's where lemming digs before exploding as stupid climber wants to
climb instead of being contained. and one cant have that I mean he could make it to exit but since time is an issue I had to fix.
Level 11 The Chosen Lemmings of Ra
ok, This one is kind of a timing one too. The tricky part for me is It seemed like the lemmings heading left from the trap at bottom right would
keep beating the lemming that came down after digging above exit where he builds right accross small gap. The other parts I had no problem
with. I had to play around with the timing with the floater at top right, when to float him. finally got it. also I increase the RR to 99 as soon as
see the 3rd lemming coming out of hatch. I finished level with 9 seconds. Man your right, no playing around, every one of the actions have to
be spot on or time runs out. In neolemmix, Icho's version is easier as he has more levels with unlimited time.
Issues: Again I had to raise that tiny slope just to the right of that small water gap as the climber who mined left at top left wall climbs that.
This is really annoying. Climbers shouldn't be doing that.
Level 12 Way into Madness
ok this one was easy to execute. nice puzzle. I've been noticing in this rank he has some nice puzzle ones. basically the solution is just
making sure lemmings have builder steps to walk on over small fire pits and a couple spots where a lemming makes a bash so lemmings
won't fall over (right side sloping terrain and digger part on left side.). Finished with 3 seconds left. Icho's lemmini replay was 2 seconds.
Note:Neolemmix's version is different. a little bit different terrain on left side upper level and solution was different in neolemmix from
Lemmini's..But I always try to keep the Lemmini's version in my Superlemmini. (Nightmare 4 Stop and Go was the one exception
since it had a problem) I do though add backroute fixes if the level is the same. In this one the only thing I added was the 3 fireblowers
on the right upper level (Icho mentioned a backroute).
Issues: 3 of the firepits I had to adjust, because instead of lemmings dying, they were just walking back and forth on them.
Update: I have saved 2 replays for this level. I wanted to see if Icho's neolemmix solution would work in this one since this one is Lemmini
version map. Terrain a little different in my Superlemmini(I kept Lemmini's version). but his neolemmix solution(slightly different)
also works (finished with 6 seconds vs 3 in lemmini's solution). both solutions use all skills.
Level 13 Face Down and Pushing Through
ok This level according to Icho was changed to a solution that Namida used thus getting rid of 1 miner and 4 diggers. He said he changed it to
Namida's because it was backrouted too much, so I did the same. so when playing my Superlemmini to solve one must use the Namida solution.
And yes it works. I saved the replay with the change in skill set.
As far as solving the level the only tricky part was getting that last build to OWW. The builder must be back far enough so build can reach near
high part of OWW so miner can mine left down without hitting steel. also the builder steps go more into OWW so miner will go through it without
leaving a tiny gap.
Issues: None
Level 14 Justice for Heroes
Ok this level wasn't too tricky to execute either. the trickiest part was the blocker near the exit. In Superlemmi if a lemming is too close to the exit
it won't allow one to become a blocker. I managed it though. This is the only part that has to be precise because of Superlemmi's engine.
I added the OWW's that were on big block left of entrance where 1st miner mines shown in neolemmix (backroute fix). The blocker pickup skill obviously
can't be used in Superlemmini, so there probably will still be a backroute as Icho added one in neolemmix where he said he put the blocker pickup
skill because the blocker was being misused at the beginning.
Issues: None
Level 15 Try Die Cry
Ok this is a nice puzzle too. Not hard to execute either. In the neolemmix version Icho mentions he had to add 3 blocker and 2 basher pickup
skills as a backroute fix, but obviously Superlemmini doesn't have pickup skills, so here there's probably a backroute. But I solved just using
Icho's solution. As far as solving, nothing is that hard to execute, probably the trickiest is just making sure a builder is
used correctly hits barrier without turning around right before small water gap on bottom floor because he needs to climb there so he can
continue right to upper floor. if he turns around he'll just exit.
Issues: I had to put a small vertical barrier right before small left diagonal stairs near upper right because again a stupid climber climbs over
that. so annoying. also I had to go to pillars style file and add the ,1 for the spikes as it crashed. this is the first level that uses spikes.
Level 16 Another Brick in the Wall(Pink Floyd)
ok this one wasn't hard to execute either. the trickiest part was probably to make sure that digger on on top of that big block digs near left edge
so when he gets to bottom and breaks thru just at very bottom to open gap he can be blocked and released. This level I finished with 25 seconds
Icho's Lemmini replay he finished with 7 seconds left because when he built over small water gap at far right bottom near exit the lemming
turned around and he didn't bash the right barrier with the 1st lemming where I did.
Note: this level is exactly the same as neolemmix's including same skill set, but save % in neolemmix is 97 where in Lemmini it's 96. so I
changed it to 97. This is because in Icho's Lemmini replay he forgot to turn 2nd lemming into a climber(he did 3rd one so he lost a lemming that he
shouldn't have-he messed up). In neolemmix he got it right-he didn't lose a lemming, so was 97.
Issues: same ol' same ol' stupid climber issue. a climber wants to climb over statue right below leftmost hatch so i put a tiny piece of terrain on
his head so climber will turn around there.
Level 17 Frozen Mind
This is a a Nightmare(pun intended). I hate this level. I just couldn't get that lemming to bash thru the 2 placed builders steps. of course there
was timing of when to send the climbers. Send the first one but then must wait till you see the 13th one out to send the next 3. and the final one
after 37th lemming come out of hatch. also that digger has to be real low because the lemmings that are not doing anything are low, so that was
a problem. Everything else was easy. its just the 2 builders have to be super precise where they start building also the basher has to be at a
perfect spot to bash so he will go through the builders steps into the left area where remaining lemmings are. finally after hours of trying I did it.
Issues:None
Level 18 Under the grinning Moon
This level was easy to solve but an editing nightmare. Stupid way the shadow traps work. they have too big of a trigger zone. Spent a few hours
just fiddling with it to get it to work. Not a perfect one but at least the traps work.
Also Icho made a lot of backroute fixes in the level. He added a tiny bit of steel below hatch, left facing OWW on big block left of exit, along with
some steel on top of that block. also a middle-sized block left of exit. Not a fun level at all to edit.
But as far as solving this level it was a nice puzzle. The only real tricky part was lining up the builder miner trick Icho loves to use. but this trick
isn't nearly as difficult as that one in the previous level. I hate those ones, especially when the basher is far from builder steps. These tricks are
easier to do.
Issues: editing nightmare with the traps as they have too big a trigger zone.
Level 19 Balls Ahead!
ok this is a nice puzzle, very easy to execute. The only tricky parts again were Icho's builder miner trick near exit and also to make sure 3rd
climber is sent a little later so a lemming can build left at blocker near top of map.
Issues: just had to lower a little bit of those steel blocks near top of map close to entrance as climbers fell back down instead of continuing over.
also again a tiny slope that climber climbs over where he shouldn't have (although climber could still make it to exit in time, but since he
isn't supposed to climb the slope I raised it again.)
Level 20 Pachelbel's Canon
ok got this level to finally work the stupid miner builder trick wouldn't work with the terrain so I altered it slightly so it will now work. spent hours
on this again.
anyways, solving this level's is a multi-task between the upper level and lower level not really hard to solve if you take it slowly. I had no
problem in this one with the basher builder trick but the minor builder one failed every time because of the terrain.
I noticed the song it play's. I think it is only used in this level (from neolemmix). I like the music. also Lemmini also play another version
of this song. I like Lemmini's too.
Issues: builder miner trick wouldn't work so I slightly made it work with fixing terrain. This was the only issue.
Edit: I watched the Lemmini one of this one. when the miner hits steel he doesn't turn around. In Superlemmini he does. This was another
problem I was having. That is another reason I altered Superlemmi's terrain.
Level 21 Rockbiter
ok this one was a multi-task level. the trickiest parts for me, I think were making sure the miner mines 3 times in big middle block by having
blockers at each edge to turn the miner. 1st one was simply a climber from top left hatch then next 2 were sent up by climbers timed just right to
block then the miner will be low enough so all lemming can get home. of course have to build the gaps miner left but that was easy.
also top right lemmings got home by 2 floaters falling then climbing right thin column. 1st floater-climber explodes about 1/2 way up pole then
2nd one just puts a single step in bomber hole so the top right ones can land on it after a builder land on pole.
Issue: None
Level 22 Kairo
First of all, this level Icho fixed in his last neolemmix reunion update, which I went back to solve because I wanted all the replays for neolemmix's
So I kinda already remembered the solution to this one. This puzzle is kind of a Beat the Clock level. Basically you do a few skills to lead the lone lemming to open the path to the exit (with help from a 2nd one who made it past traps(send 5 and block the 6th) at the end you will have your lone lemming leading way. then it's a matter of race to last crusher all the lemmings that were released from the blown up blocker and lone lemming pretty much have to be at last crusher almost simultanionly but just an instant before the lone lemming has to be crushed and while that happens the others sneak past the last crusher to the exit.
Note: I fixed this to match neolemmix's as the level and solution are the same with changes Icho made in his last update.
Issues:None
Level 23 You have to Believe!
ok this level requires extreme precision with the miner builder steps so miner can zig-zag down before bashing right to free lower level lemmings
also at the beginning, it's the same way where miner from right hatch has to mine down left thru builders step that were placed there from the digger
at start. also was very difficult to get the miner to mine left since it's so crowded there.
This level is the most difficult level in game so far not because of the solution per say, but because of extreme precison.
Also this is the Lemmini's version of the level which is more difficult than neolemmix, also neolemmix has a different solution. But I always try to keep
the Lemmini version even though it's way more difficult than neolemmix's
Issues:
Ok this level has a problem with the thickness of the builders steps. in the 2nd zig-zag mining area the thickness causes the miner to aways break the
one going down left near where left wall starts so I decided to add 1 more builder to level to have a double builder there so the puzzle can be solved.
Maybe it's Superlemmini engine(not sure). I saw Icho's Lemmini replay. this part is so extreme that I don't believe other people will enjoy this problem
so that is why I added 1 builder. The level should be based on the puzzle not the builders steps.
UPDATE: i just saw Icho's youtube on neolemmix for this level and yes he mentions this problem with the builder steps, so he also added an extra
builder..
Level 24 Rise of a Digital Nation
Ok this level I finished with 3 seconds. Since neolemmix's version is exactly the same, I just followed Icho's solution on Youtube. Not really a hard
one, just make sure to pause and see what's going on in level and follow it precisely. Not too many difficult things, the trickiest was just that 2nd
gap(the one after electrical trap) the lemming has to be just on very edge of block so he builds and turns around. had to use forward
framestepping and do a few times. but managed it.
Issues: None
Level 25 The Flameout
ok this level wasn't too bad. the trickiest part was getting that blocker at very far right near exit. he practically was just as far as he can go,
because even though I got builder to hit him and turn and make it left. it was difficult because blocker has to be far enough right after builder
builds so other lemmings get on the step and turn and head for exit instead of hitting blocker and not going up. that was very difficult.
rest of level was not very difficult.
Issues: None
Level 26 The Master System
Ok this level Icho used his builder miner trick 2 times, I accomplished both by looking precisely at his youtube channel the placement.
the first one it took 3 tries as I was just a tad off. The 2nd one near the exit I managed to do it the 1st try.
There was no problem though in these tricks as long as there flat or near flat surfaces unlike pachebel's canon. That level's dirt area was just
too ruged. The only other tricky part (and not really that tricky) was bombing the crowd at the right time so they won't splat on diggers ledge.
I added the tiny OWW's on the compartment sides where the rightmost lemmings are shown in the neolemmix level(backroute fix according to
Icho)
Issues: None
Level 27 Unsecure Area
Ok this level was the 2nd of 2 levels Icho updated in his latest release in neolemmix. So again I was already familiar with the solution as I
corrected the solution for his neolemmix pack. The only difference between neolemmix's version and Lemmini's is he exchanged a basher
for a digger in neolemmix. but either one was used in the same spot, so it really doesn't matter which one is there. The solution is the same
either way. The only thing That I added for Superlemmini is the ton of stompers at beginning because I fixed a backroute Icho mentioned
where if one does any kind of building the lemmings will get stomped as building there is to prevent a backroute.
As far as solving, I think this level is not too hard. The trickiest part probably is again Icho's famous builder miner trick. but after a few tries
I got it lined up. Just had to make sure digger at OWW's was far enough left so when miner gets down there to finish mining he doesn't leave
a gap.
Note: in Neolemmix's version Icho added 2 climber pickup skills but since Superlemmini does'nt have pickups there might still be a backroute
possible here in Superlemmini.
Issues: had to vertically adjust map because climbers fell back down trying to climb those steel blocks near top of screen.
Level 28 Cranking the Stress
ok, Now I know why he calls it this. Everything in this level is hard.(still I think "You have to believe" and "Lemmings go cliffjumping" are harder)
For me the hardest part of the level is the very first part timing the floaters just right. Also the bomber climbing there has to be in a precise
spot so when miner mines down right, the builder steps are placed correctly. Still for me not so tricky(saw in Icho's replay precisely where to
bomb. I got the all the placements correct. Just timing the floaters was for me the hardest part.
Issues: None
Level 29 Lemtris Version X
Wow what a level very lenghty but not as hard as some previous levels. Just had to take my time with the placements of the builder miner
Tricks and follow Icho's solution although the last few things I didn't as I could see the final touches which I did on my own.
At least the lemtris blocks are square so the builder minor tricks are much easier to do once you just get it placed correct.
Used every skill except for 4 blockers. I know Icho had a few others, but I'm just glad to finish it (had 1min 42sec left).
Issues:None
Level 30 NOW YOUR NIGHTMARE COMES TO LIFE(OR AKA "A Living Nightmare" in neolemmix)
Ok this has now become the most difficult level in the pack. Every placement is extremely difficult. The most difficult part was the last blocker
was never far enough left so builder could get to top of bashed slope(in Superlemmini blockers can't be put down near fire like lemmini's
(lemmings will just walk past-I saw in Icho's Lemmini one the replay where it lets you) so I decided to push inward the leftmost blue block
before exit so there will be slightly more room to get builder up to bashed slope). Also the spot where a bomber explodes and the builder needs
to build right thru hole to some hatched lemmings, the exploding hole is just not big enough to get him to right in 1 build(he always hit his head
so I decided to add 1 builder to help here.
As far as solving the level, I had no trouble with the builder miner trick on leftside, where miner releases the blocker down left.
the basher 2 builder trick was difficult because one had to time this so the builder steps are at a spot where when the basher from leftside will
release the hatched lemmings. But the most difficult of all was the last blocker on left before exit. Didn't have enough room like Lemmini's so I
needed to push that left blue block a tad right to help with this. Also this Level is a time cruncher. Finished level with 17 seconds not counting the
Nuke.
Issues: see above
Pack is now finished. There are no Java issues in any levels so there shouldn't be any crashes including the traps, (i fixed any with Tsyus ,1). Also
all the issues with the exits are now solved.
Soon I will get the Pack Uploaded. Just going to check a few other things, then I will upload it.
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Absolutely agree with your assessment of Nightmare 7 being really easy for the rank. Just a standard puzzle with a new idea that isn't too tricky to figure out, and probably doesn't take too long to realize it. Nothing wrong with that, though. The entire Nightmare rank isn't all very hard levels. It's nice to have the occasional easy level in the final and most difficult ranking. Consider it a break from all the hard levels before and around it. I said the exact same thing in my feedback to United. Both the 3rd and 4th levels, imo, are really easy for the Genocide rank. Similarly, look at L1 and ONML. Both the Mayhem and the Havoc ranks had the occasional very easy level compared to all the other difficult ones around them. Thus, the idea is that no level pack is perfect going from easy to hard all the time. It's perfectly fine to throw in an easy, breather level here and there every now and then just so the player doesn't get frustrated from all the really hard levels. Just as it's fine to start hard in the rank and stay hard throughout or have an occasional breather level. Also, as is most often the case, the difficulty curve can be very wonky and be all over the place. You can encounter an easy level but then all of a sudden the next level is a huge jump in difficulty. Then maybe the next level after that is easy again, or it could be followed by a few difficult levels and then after a while you encounter an easier than usual level after all the hard ones.
Almost a third of the way through the Nightmare rank. Nice job!
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Level 7 Tactical Foul
Ok, I have one question for you, why is this in Nightmare rank? Should be maybe only beginning part of 2nd rank or end of 1st. the puzzle is
super easy to execute. did it 1st try. Not even a time cruncher. I didn't even find 1 part tricky.
maybe only to make sure athlete builds not at edge to reach barrier there to build so the released lemmings don't splat.
Maybe this level is here in this rank because the're on their way home drunk. (which is harder than this puzzle)
Issues: Level doesn't belong in this rank.
Let's go on a trip back in time. In 2015 the trick to use the miner/basher stroke to especially make a hole on the other side of a gap was considered way more difficult than now. With that in mind the level was more difficult back then than now.
Regarding timers: Lemmini required timers , so that's the reason why many of them were there in the first place. NL removed a lot of them where the timer became an issue even though the level was not about the timer. There are still a bunch of levels in NL with a not needed timer, but it doesn't get in the way there. If the pack was made fror NeoLemmix in the first place the ammount of timers would be even lower now.
Regarding execution:
The lack of skill shadows and framestepping held me back while creating Reunion and it always felt like a straitjacket for me. I tried to held back precision and timing at some points, but did not care much in other points (especially in nightmare levels). With NL finally the precision factors did not matter as much anymore (they still matter though) and that's why I still consider the Lemmini version to be a very poor choice for playing this pack, but I still keep it up for archive purposes. At the point of the Reunion NL conversion I completely switched to N and only updated that version from then on. That's why it's still a bit surprising to me why you go through all of this execution madness when you don't have to. ;P
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See replay for Nightmare 9. This isn't the solution I first came up with when I first solved it in Lemmini, but this one works in the NL version as well. In any case, both of my solutions avoided the right half of the level completely. However, in NL one needs to use a builder in the first digger pit since a lemming still climbs out to the left. This solution allows a faster completion time, as well as have a few spare builders in the end. IMO, this solution is a little easier than the intended route. I wonder if Icho wants to block this or let it slide.
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hi Kaywhn I managed to do this as well both in neolemmix and my Superlemmini where the right side isn't even used but mine doesn't even use a climber at all. I had 3 builders and a climber left over and 12 seconds left over. I have the replay I'm sending to neolemmix reunion board to see what Icho says.
and since I copied the neolemmix version in my Superlemmini, the level will be bacrouted too.in my Superlemmini. Oh well, I think Icho should dump this level as he mentioned in his Youtube channel the was a very problematic level.
here is my replay for neolemmix Nightmare 9 Pipe Grid puzzle (no cliimber used). I repeated this replay in Superlemmini too. So if you play my Superlemmini
you will be able to backroute it
Also I guess this is why United always comes out with opdates also, you always manage to find backroutes
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hey eric, I saw your NL solution. See my post in the Reunion topic to clarify the misunderstanding, as I too don't use the climber, just a builder so the lemming that can slip out to the left gets contained in the digger pit.
Also I guess this is why United always comes out with opdates also, you always manage to find backroutes
From my understanding, Armani is the only person so far who has completed the entire United pack completely to Icho's satisfaction. Thus, this would mean I'm the second person to test out the later ranks, which are way more problematic in terms of backroutes. Somehow, these backroutes remain and were missed. It makes me wonder whether Armani simply sent in solutions that he thinks are intended rather than other possible solutions as well. As for me, I'm simply sending in the first solution I found and not bothering with other possible solutions. That's why I'm quite surprised that backroutes still remain, because I thought all of them have been fixed because Armani was first to finish the pack.
Finally, something that I take great issue with, and that is I'm noticing that you are constantly misspelling my user name. Please get it right. It's kaywhyn. Not kaywhn (most common misspelling I'm seeing from you), kaywhen (this one I noticed in your Reunion post), or anything else. The correct one is the first one.
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Fun trivia fact about Nightmare 16: Another Brick in the Wall. Out of all the levels in the Reunion pack, this one had me stuck the longest. No joke, I was stuck on this level for 3 weeks. Turns out I failed to spot the ever so crucial digger placement at the very beginning of the level with the left-most entrance. I had all of the level solved except for the digger part. And yes, I was able to save 97, one more than the actual requirement on Lemmini. Not a super hard level, just I couldn't figure out the actual purpose of the digger for a couple of weeks. When I finally did spot it, I was in disbelief of how I never ever saw it earlier. I was nearly tempted to peek at namida's solution on Youtube that time, but I resisted and was able to solve the level without consulting a video walkthrough.
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Alternatively, instead of doing what you did at the very end of Nightmare 25, you could do this which is much easier and completely eliminates the timing. Interrupt the basher midstroke with a builder, but make sure that the land isn't destroyed so that the lemmings can still get up the slope to the exit. Then just block with the first lemming that gets past the wall.
edit: see replay. This won't work in Superlemmini, as the lemming that was close to the blocker will go past, and so to get this to work you would need to work out the timing of the crowd.
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I have your version as a 2nd replay and it did work. and yes there can't be any other lemmings near there. but even in my replay I had it timed so no other lemmings were there,and I just altered my replay and changed it to that at the very end. So now I have Icho's intended version and your's as a replay.
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Yea, I didn't feel like solving this level again, and so my replay is Icho's, I simply modified the end part of his solution. I was going to suggest to you to simply use your Superlemmini replay solution and just modify the end part like I did with Icho's at the end, but it looks like you did that anyway. It's easier because you avoid the whole thing of having to place a blocker on the builder staircase. It's fine in Lemmini, as lemmings can be very close but will always turn around when a blocker is placed (thus, the pass through blocker, i.e, turn a lemming into a blocker immediately from an entrance and lemmings can still go through the blocker, doesn't work in Lemmini). However, it works in Superlemmini, just like NL, and so when blocking the lemmings need to be a bit further apart in order to bounce off and turn around on one.