Lemmini - Lemmings for Java - public Alpha

[0xdeadbeef]

The skill assignment behavior is not negotiable in my point of view, it's way more important than your framerate.  Skill assignment is too fundamental to the gameplay.

Right, and specifically on the problem I pointed out, if there are two lemmings under the cursor and one cannot take the skill (e.g. "builder" is selected and one of the two is already a builder) then the priority MUST pass over to the other lemming. This is absolutely vital to the gameplay. (Yes, the game is still playable, but there are situations where you can't do something you want to and should be able to.)

Calm down guys, I said it's on the list. However if someone gives me the rules for priority handling, it's more likely it'll make it into  a release soon.

About the music problem, if you have fixed the music for each level, then level 17 Fun should have music #17, level 18 should cycle back to music #1 (Cancan), and so the level I was playing, 1 Tricky, should have music #14, no?

You can have a look in the resource directoy in  "levels/orig/orig.ini" (and "levels/ohno/ohno.ini"). There the available music is defined as well as the definition which music to play for which level.
At the moment, level Fun 17 has the following definition line:
# Fun 17 - Easy when you know how (based on "Compression Method 1"/lvl0027.ini)
fun_16 = lvl0027b.ini,CAKHLFLBDU,16

The music is "16" which is defined as:
music_16 = mountain.mod

If there's something wrong with the music order, playe have a look in the ini file and tell me what do change.
Indeed you can change the ini file(s) yourself to test for yourself.

[0xdeadbeef]

And one general thing for those who observe crashes: please download "lemmini.jar" from my site, put it somewhere and start it from the command line (console) with

    java -jar lemmini.jar

If the game crashes, please have a look at the console if there is any error text printed out by the virtual machine.

[geoo]

I had a first look a it, and I quite like it. The name Lemmini doesn't sound that bad IMO (I'm also German)
However there are some problems, or differences to what I'm used to I noticed:

- object animations continue when the game is paused or when fast forwarded, in same speed; that causes for traps, with fast forward more lemmings can pass one trap, it might cause a potential backroute for 'Compression method 1' (Taxing 6) and perhaps also for other levels; pressing pause again can cause that some more lemmings than intended get killed by a trap
- already the first lemmig coming out is affected by the RR, actually the first lemming should come out not depending on the RR
- the climbers seem far too fast to me (twice the speed they actually should have?)
- a climber hitting his head does the 'vaulter' animation (transitioning to walker) at the beginning if his fall; a climber who should actually do this animation (when having finished climbing an object) doesn't do it however
- changing the RR influences the outcoming of the lemmings instantly, at least in the DOS version the RR changes effectively only after outcoming of the next lemming (I actually don't have any problem with it, also, in Cheapo it works the same way, but anyway)
- the 'jumper', a lemming climbing a step of a height 3 - 6 px doesn't have his own animation which causes a skip of a few frames (this problem also appears in the WinLemm version) - actually each 2 px of vertical movement should take one (I think) extra frame *image (jumper) below
- when building on a miner's tunnel or a 45 degree slope (away from it, not into), the following lemmings cannot access the bridge of the builder, might be fixed having the bridge start by 1 px shifted
- it is impossible to assign a builder to a lemming when he would hit his head before setting his first brick
- I did one level with 97% saved (100% needed), and get the "Rock Bottom!" comment, which is (afaik) only meant for 0% saved

Some things I'd like to suggest:
- the scrolling seems a bit slow to me (fortunately there's still the mini-map to scroll), might get a little faster
- the in/decreasing of the RR works also a bit too slow for my taste
- I'd like to have the Enter key for fast forward, as it is used for Lemmings 2 and Cheapo
- the exit in the hell style doesn't have its horns, in the brick style the exit is not completely displayed (the area where the trigger area is located is black), this should be corrected
- it seems a bit strange to me that the numbers of skills/RR is displayed above the button (I don't know about the Amiga version however)

The digger animation, as it was already said, seems a bit strage also to me.
*) here's an image how the jumper looks like in e.g. the DOS version:

[Proxima]

Calm down guys, I said it's on the list. However if someone gives me the rules for priority handling, it's more likely it'll make it into &#A0;a release soon.

I'm perfectly calm. The emphasis was just to distinguish what was the main point I was making and what wasn't.

If there's something wrong with the music order, playe have a look in the ini file and tell me what do change.

OK, I'll do that tomorrow (earliest I can do it, when I'm on my home computer again).

[ccexplore]

However I'm a little perplexed by the phrasing "not negotiable". I mean, at the end I'll have to decide what I can or want to do and what I can't/don't.

Well duh, you can make the lemmings fly and we can't stop you, but you know what I mean. &#A0;I'm sure there are more pressing matters at the moment, but it definitely did not square with me that you were at one point almost trivializing the skill assignment issue when you actually spent more time getting the game second to be perfect. That's all.

I still haven't gotten around to trying it out, but from what I'm hearing it sounds good so far.  Keep up the good work!

[0xdeadbeef]

- object animations continue when the game is paused or fast forwarded; that causes for traps, with fast forward more lemmings can pass one trap, it might cause a potential backroute for 'Compression method 1' (Taxing 6) and perhaps also for other levels;
pressing pause again can cause that some more lemmings than intended get killed by a trap

Indeed I liked the idea to let the animations run because it looks a little silly if e.g. the flames stop to flicker just because pause was pressed. Then again, I agree it might be a problem with traps. I think, I will change that. Also the particles of an explosion are not influenced by pause mode. Will change that too, I guess, though it doesn't influence game play.

- already the first lemmig coming out is affected by the RR, actually the first lemming should come out not depending on the RR

I know. It's already on my todo list, but at some point, I wanted to release the Beta. Will be fixed.

- the climbers seems far too fast to me (twice the speed they actually should have?)

Climbers climb at one pixel per frame (I compensate the doubled resolution with a doubled refresh rate) just like Walkers walk one pixel per frame. I think this should be ok...

- a climber hitting his head does the 'vaulter' animation (transitioning to walker) at the beginning if his fall; a climber who should actually do this animation (when having finished climbing an object) doesn't do it however

Oops, I must admit I considered this animation to be a "climber to faller" animation  .  But you're right. Will be fixed.

- changing the RR influences the outcoming of the lemmings instantly, at least in the DOS version the RR changes effectively only after outcoming of the next lemming

Phew, well, this doesn't sound like a major issue to me. Does this affect gameplay?

- the 'jumper', a lemming climbing a step of a height 2 - 6 px doesn't have his own animation which causes a skip of a few frames - this problem also appears in the WinLemm version: each 2 px of vertical movement take one (I think) extra frame *image below

Hm, if lemmings for windows doesn't have this animation, I'd have to draw it myself, which will most probably look worse than skipping it. But I'll put it on the list (which is already terribly large).

- when building on a miner's tunnel or a 45 degree slope (away from it, not into), the following lemmings cannot access the bridge of the builder, might be fixed having the bridge start by 1 px shifted

With miners, this is probably a problem of pixel alignment as (almost) everything in Lemmini is pixel accurate vs. 2 or 4 pixel accuracy in the "original" versions. Builder vs. builder is strange since builders only start at even positions and the step has an even width. You don't have a screenshot of this, do you?

- it is impossible to assign a builder to a lemming when he would hit his head before setting his first brick

True, but what would be the correct behaviour? Build the first brick anyway and then stop?

- I did one level with 97% saved (100% needed), and get the "Rock Bottom!" comment, which is (afaik) only meant for 0% saved

True. I was too lazy too find out all comments - there are much more missing. But I'll add them later.

- the scrolling seems a bit slow to me (fortunately there's still the mini-map to scroll), might get a little faster

Scrolling is limited to screen updates. So I could only increase the step size.
There's a little trick however: if you scroll with keyboard (cursor keys) and mouse in parallel, the speed is doubled.

- the increasing of the RR works also a bit too slow for my taste

Yeah, I might rework this. It's so slow at the moment to allow changing it by one step without adding a more debounced delay.

- I'd like to have the Enter key for fast forward, as it is used for Lemmings 2 and Cheapo

Now that was easy.

- the exit in the hell style doesn't have its horns, in the brick style the exit is not completely displayed (the area where the trigger area is located is black), this should be corrected

Phew, the hell exit should look exactly like in the Windows version and I can't follow you with the brick style exit. The exit area is not black for me. The exit consists of two parts: a static part "styles\brick\bricko_0.gif" and an animated part "styles\brick\bricko_9.gif". Looks ok for me!?

- it seems a bit strange to me that the numbers of skills/RR is displayed above the button (I don't know about the Amiga version however)

It was displayed on the button, but there's not enough space on my buttons for this since the images are larger. Also the current font wouldn't work on the buttons.

The digger animation, as it was already said, seems a bit strage also to me.

Could you substantiate this? The animation is "misc/lemm_13.gif". As far as I remember, it cycles once from first to last frame, than applies the dig mask, than starts with frame 0 again.

[0xdeadbeef]

... when you actually spent more time getting the game second to be perfect.

Maybe you got me wrong there. I stumbled across a lot of problems regarding timing reaching deep into the Java virtual machine and even the Windows core. Because of bugs or strange implemenation on both sides, I had all kind of issues from semi-freezes to a speed up of the system clock by the factor of 2 when running Lemmini.
That's why I listen closely if someone complains about wrong speed.

[Jazzem]

First of all I'd like to congratulate you. This is a very impressive piece of work, and one that I'm sure took plenty of time and patience. So kudos

Just a few things though...

-The music starts straight away instead of beginning right after the trapdoor opens.
-The RR increases/decreases at a much slower rate than usual.
-I tried to build towards a wall sloping at 45 degrees above me, but I simply got the chink sound. The lemming would bang his head, but he should at least make one step before turning away.
-http://www.rocketsoft.gm-school.uni.cc/uploads/Lemini%20mistake.JPG If you look at that, the digger seemed to finish off with just a little gap instead of the usual size, leaving that bit of terrain which the lemmings respond to.
-Just something of preference really, but I think you should use the classic toolbar instead of the Cheapo one.
-Speed up is a bit jerky, and occasionally makes the music stutter.
-If you make a lemming in a small, huddled group a blocker, all the others will instantly react and change their direction. As ridiculous as this sounds (And I'm sorry for being so picky), the lemmings should really ignore it.

Apart from those quirks I'm very impressed, and I look forward to the complete release  

[Proxima]

- it is impossible to assign a builder to a lemming when he would hit his head before setting his first brick

True, but what would be the correct behaviour? Build the first brick anyway and then stop?

You can always build one brick. The most important consequence is that when the lemming would hit his head after one brick, you can use the builder skill to make him turn round. A second consquence is that you can use many builders to get higher and higher until you get right up into the ceiling (or through, if it's thin enough). Indeed, this is the key to the normal solution to Mayhem 2: The Boiler Room.

[Mindless]

- the exit in the hell style doesn't have its horns, in the brick style the exit is not completely displayed (the area where the trigger area is located is black), this should be corrected.

The hell exit does not have horns in the Win95 graphics.  If someone designed a hires horned exit, 0xdeadbeef might add it to his patches.

Other in game keys:

• S - SuperLemming mode?
• F - Fast Forward
• P - Pause

Edit:

The digger animation, as it was already said, seems a bit strage also to me.

Could you substantiate this? The animation is "misc/lemm_13.gif". As far as I remember, it cycles once from first to last frame, than applies the dig mask, than starts with frame 0 again.

My lemm_13.gif: Animated:

[0xdeadbeef]

At last someone noticed my ingenious patching framework  ;D

And about the keys: "superlemming" mode is just available in cheat/debug mode (enabled by "c"). In cheat mode, there are some more keys, but I wouldn't advice to press them since they can mess the level data.

[ccexplore]

Indeed I liked the idea to let the animations run because it looks a little silly if e.g. the flames stop to flicker just because pause was pressed. Then again, I agree it might be a problem with traps. I think, I will change that.

Very low priority, but it might be possible to avoid/minimize/mask the stroboscopic issue (ie. "flames stop flickering") with some manner of alpha-blending the skipped frames. &#A0;Though no doubt it'll either increase the CPU load (if done dynamically) or memory footprint (if you pre-generated the blend frames beforehand and store them in memory), to say nothing of more code.

Climbers climb at one pixel per frame (I compensate the doubled resolution with a doubled refresh rate) just like Walkers walk one pixel per frame. I think this should be ok...

Too fast. &#A0;In the actual game climbers only move, in effect, every other frame, so it sounds like it's moving twice as fast in lemmini unless I misread your description above.  (Your walkers sound okay.)

Do keep the climber speed close to the real game. &#A0;It's hard enough for a player to time climber explosions (which is necessary in a few levels) without a speedier climber magnifying the variance.

- it is impossible to assign a builder to a lemming when he would hit his head before setting his first brick

True, but what would be the correct behaviour? Build the first brick anyway and then stop?

Yes, that's correct. &#A0;Please keep to the original's behavior on this. &#A0;It affects Mayhem 2. &#A0;Probably not enough to make it unsolvable, but definitely affects the usual solutions such as the one described here.

Phew, the hell exit should look exactly like in the Windows version

You would not believe how many people would scream out at this. (Though admittedly, I didn't know the Windows version's hi-res hell exit are also missing horns like the Mac, and I don't really care too much myself.) &#A0;But since this is just a graphics issue, you don't really need to fix this yourself. &#A0;I can try uploading an alternative graphics with the horns at some point, once I go back to review how WinLemm stores its graphics......

[geoo]

I forgot to say: Everytime I say 'pixel' I mean a low-res pixel, i.e. you'd need to calculate with 2 px.

The digger animation, as it was already said, seems a bit strage also to me.

Could you substantiate this? The animation is "misc/lemm_13.gif". As far as I remember, it cycles once from first to last frame, than applies the dig mask, than starts with frame 0 again.

I dunno exactly, but comparing with Winlemm or DOS, it is different. It seems to me that, when digging the first layer away, the animation is shown as usually, and when digging the second layer, the animation is shown horizontally mirrored.

Phew, the hell exit should look exactly like in the Windows version and I can't follow you with the brick style exit. The exit area is not black for me. The exit consists of two parts: a static part "styles\brick\bricko_0.gif" and an animated part "styles\brick\bricko_9.gif". Looks ok for me!?

Well, the horns also don't show up in WinLemm high-res, however in low-res.
An a little high-res-like looking option is rendering it with '2XSAI Kreed's Engine", here's an image of the Genesis lemmings exit: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Hell_exit.PNG; however it doesn't match well to the other style (colors etc.)
The Bricks exit, I just noticed, the problem doesn't appear in all levels: e.g. in Tame 1 it doesn't appear, however it appears in most of the other levels, e.g. Havoc 5, Crazy 2.; again, here's an image: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/Brick_exit.PNG

- changing the RR influences the outcoming of the lemmings instantly, at least in the DOS version the RR changes effectively only after outcoming of the next lemming

Phew, well, this doesn't sound like a major issue to me. Does this affect gameplay?

Not drastically, at least I don't have problems with it; the player just needs to change the RR a little later the way it is now.

- when building on a miner's tunnel or a 45 degree slope (away from it, not into), the following lemmings cannot access the bridge of the builder, might be fixed having the bridge start by 1 px shifted

With miners, this is probably a problem of pixel alignment as (almost) everything in Lemmini is pixel accurate vs. 2 or 4 pixel accuracy in the "original" versions. Builder vs. builder is strange since builders only start at even positions and the step has an even width. You don't have a screenshot of this, do you?

No problem, here's a little image showing the situation: http://207.58.177.175/~geoo89/lemmings/slope_builder.PNG


I somehow managed to have a lemming survive the nuke, I don't know how. But it happened twice, both times in the level "It's all a matter of timing".

Then I noticed some things in Wild 16: Five alive:
- The bomber, who also breaks through the thinned brick in the WinLemm version, doesn't break through; in the solution on the Lemmings solution page it is actually not needed, but iirc I used it when I solved the level and it also seems intended.
- The miner doesn't turn around when hitting steel
- The miner doesn't take out its mask completely when getting on steel, however I don't know whether it is intended to work that way, it firstly also works that way in Cheapo and is secondly more exact

[ccexplore]

-Just something of preference really, but I think you should use the classic toolbar instead of the Cheapo one.

The Cheapo toolbar is actually the toolbar graphics of WinLemm, despite looking very different from the toolbars in other versions of Lemmings.

Actually I take that back.  They are not identical, but it's still true that the two are very similar, especially in the graphics of the lemming skills.  (Wikipedia's entry on Lemmings have a screenshot of WinLemm's toolbar.)

Again, all graphics issues can theoretically be resolved once someone write a tool to convert from bitmaps to the format used by WinLemm.

[0xdeadbeef]

Very low priority, but it might be possible to avoid/minimize/mask the stroboscopic issue (ie. "flames stop flickering") with some manner of alpha-blending the skipped frames.  Though no doubt it'll either increase the CPU load (if done dynamically) or memory footprint (if you pre-generated the blend frames beforehand and store them in memory), to say nothing of more code.
Dunno if I got what you mean here. I was talking about how silly it look if the flames stop moving just because I press the pause button. You talk about stroboscopic issues? Hm  :-/

Climbers climb at one pixel per frame (I compensate the doubled resolution with a doubled refresh rate) just like Walkers walk one pixel per frame. I think this should be ok...

Too fast.  In the actual game climbers only move, in effect, every other frame, so it sounds like it's moving twice as fast in lemmini unless I misread your description above.  (Your walkers sound okay.)

Ok, will be fixed, builders as well I hope.

I can try uploading an alternative graphics with the horns at some point, once I go back to review how WinLemm stores its graphics......

I just need a gif or something. Maybe I'll have a look myself, but my list of things to do kinda exploded lately