Lemmings re-make

[Proxima]

Another thing: if the climbing trough terrain trick (yes,I still see it as a trick and not a glitch) isn't allowed for this remake, is building to get up trough terrain OK?

Building through terrain is obviously acceptable (c.f. Mayhem 2). If you are referring to the device used on that level, that is.

[ccexplore]

The trigger area of the water is fine,but not that of the acid from the pink set...it seems to be offset about 4 pixels too high...

I just checked it out but I'm not convinced that it's too high.  The trigger area starts 4 pixels below the upper-left corner of the bounding rectangle.  That is about where the liquid boundary is visually.  I think you need to check the y-coordinate of your object.

One thing to note is that the vertical size of the acid is 25, so to align it to the bottom of the level area and yet maintain a y-coordinate that's multiple of 4, the bottom-most row of pixels of the water will be off the level's boundary (it'd be ok, the game won't crash).  That is, you should set the y position to be 136 rather than 135.

[ccexplore]

Another thing: if the climbing trough terrain trick (yes,I still see it as a trick and not a glitch) isn't allowed for this remake, is building to get up trough terrain OK?

Building through terrain is obviously acceptable (c.f. Mayhem 2). If you are referring to the device used on that level, that is.

I should note that the main reason you can build thru the terrain in Mayhem 2 is because the platform there is thin enough.  You should find that if the platform there were 7 pixels thick instead of 6, you will get stuck, and once you are stuck, further building won't help.

That's the critical difference.  You can proceed upwards while you're not yet stuck, but once stuck, you can't proceed upwards.  With the climber the way it is now, it's actually the opposite:  you need to get stuck first, then the glitch will let you proceed upwards.

[tseug]

Are you talking about the modified version? That was sort of confusing.

The OWW/steel glitch is what levi said. The basher glitch is that bashers don't remove terrain in a blocker field.

[ccexplore]

I should note that the main reason you can build thru the terrain in Mayhem 2 is because the platform there is thin enough. &#A0;You should find that if the platform there were 7 pixels thick instead of 6, you will get stuck, and once you are stuck, further building won't help.

Whoops, my memory is incorrect apparently.  It is possible to keep building to go upwards.

Well Leviathan, you might have a point here I guess.

But I'm still not convinced that the glitch should be allowed.  After all, the game explicitly sets the climber to a faller when he hits his head, unlike the case with the builder where the game merely reverts it to walker.  That seems to speak the intentions pretty clearly to me.

[ccexplore]

The basher glitch is that bashers don't remove terrain in a blocker field.

Are you sure about this?  I just tried testing it out in CustLemm but didn't get the result you described.  Give me the steps you used if you can recall them.

[tseug]

Maybe it's only terrain on the opposite side of the blocker field, I'm not sure.

EDIT: It turns out that bashers do remove terrain in a blocker field. So what I had in mind is actually a really weird trick!

[ccexplore]

I can't find anything in the code that could possibly lead to the behavior you alleged.  The game doesn't take into account steel areas either when applying terrain-removal masks, so I find it unlikely that it would somehow take into account blocker fields.

So until you find a good way to reproduce the glitch, I tend to think you remembered or observed incorrectly.

[ccexplore]

EDIT: It turns out that bashers do remove terrain in a blocker field. So what I had in mind is actually a really weird trick!

Ok, now that we cleared that up, feel free to PM me (even if vaguely) what trick you have in mind that somehow caused you to think the basher doesn't remove terrain in a blocker field.

[tseug]

I sent a PM. It looks especially weird when you do it in a digger pit.

[Leviathan]

Another possibility to be able to involve the climb-trough-terrain trick/glitch is to implement a level into the fun or tricky cathegory like this one:

http://it.travisbsd.org/lemmings/lemmingswelt/index.php?cmd=get&file=levelpacks/climb.dat

I could rename the level to "Get stuck and climb" if it still isn't obvious enough

[tseug]

Maybe we could just keep most of the glitches and make levels like that that teach them. That would be an interesting "fun" set....

[ccexplore]

: Well all right I can see why you have so much stake in this since your levels' are at stake.

I guess we'll have to wait to see how people vote on this.

I haven't looked at your level, but the best trainer level would be to have the entrance be embedded inside a wall, so that the lemmings come out stuck already.  Then make climbers the only available skill.

[ccexplore]

Maybe we could just keep most of the glitches and make levels like that that teach them. That would be an interesting "fun" set....

I have to admit that is an interesting idea, and definitely adds a whole new dimension to the discussion about glitches.

I would still think that some glitches are probably not worth keeping even with a trainer level, for example the nuke glitch.

[tseug]

I haven't looked at your level, but the best trainer level would be to have the entrance be embedded inside a wall, so that the lemmings come out stuck already.  Then make climbers the only available skill.

That would qualify as "Lame".