3D Lemmings is getting weirder then I thought...

[Mikex62]

When I looked up video on Youtube about 3D Lemmings, I saw 3 consoles had them. DOS, PlayStation 1, and Sega Saturn. I saw each console had a difference. Dos was completely different then both the PlayStation and Sega Saturn. As it ran more efficiently then all the others. The movies had sound (WOW!) and music running at the same time, plus different sounds. Playstation ran MUCH slower and had no sound on the movies, just music. Sega Saturn was SIMILAR to the PlayStation. Unlike the PlayStation, the Sega Saturn was able to run movies and gameplay faster. The controls take getting used to. The loading SO SLOW! My choice would be the Sega Saturn version or the Dos version. Hey, it's better then the Playstation version...

[ccexplore]

link to youtube video(s)?

I'm somewhat surprised that the DOS version has the best performance.  Then again, it may not be an accurate depiction of performance if they were running it on modern PC hardware, as opposed to the hardware available on PCs back in the days.  Or whoever did the console ports didn't do a very good job.

Slow loading times is a consequence of the games running off of CDs I think.  I don't remember but I think the DOS version makes you install the whole game onto your hard drive, right?

[Pooty]

I didn't have much luck finding decent Saturn footage on YouTube. All I could find was two frustrating-to-watch videos where the player probably wasn't patient enough to understand the controls. That said, it is true that the controls for the game are difficult because there are more camera actions than there are buttons on the joypad. If only twin stick controls were around back then...

[Prob Lem]

I started off with the MS-DOS version, and to be honest, I find the controls in the PlayStation port to be pretty intuitive - I can't imagine any way that they could have been done better... (Not only that, but, rare as it is, they're fully redefinable if you don't like any of the alternate options, either.)

Anyway, I would imagine that much of the footage on YouTube is not an accurate representation, as it's often taken from emulators. Running the MS-DOS version of Lemmings 3D in DOSBox, for example, usually results in something that runs *MUCH* faster than it really did on hardware of its time. Not only that, but I know that there are some Lemmings 3D videos that show up if you search YouTube for footage of the Saturn version, which are actually of the MS-DOS version (one of them mentions this in the description).

Having run the MS-DOS version on a contemporary PC of that time (the game was bundled with the first x86 box that my family got, in fact; The machine was equipped with a Pentium 75-level CPU, 8MB of RAM, a 1GB hard disk drive, and ran the first revision of Microsoft Windows 95), in reality it originally ran about the same as the PlayStation version does. The loading times were pretty similar, too - and it's a shame to note that the lemmings who appeared on the loading screens, holding the word "LOADING" in the Lemmings font, are absent in the PSX and Saturn versions.

As a point of note, the MS-DOS and PlayStation versions were coded by the same company (Clockwork Games), whilst the Saturn version was not (it was handled by Perfect Entertainment, instead), so I'd have expected far more differences between the MS-DOS and PSX originals, next to the third-party Saturn port, myself.

Also;

Slow loading times is a consequence of the games running off of CDs I think.  I don't remember but I think the DOS version makes you install the whole game onto your hard drive, right?

As far as I remember, it didn't, no. It just saved your settings to the HDD.

[Pooty]

As a point of note, the MS-DOS and PlayStation versions were coded by the same company (Clockwork Games), whilst the Saturn version was not (it was handled by Perfect Entertainment, instead), so I'd have expected far more differences between the MS-DOS and PSX originals, next to the third-party Saturn port, myself.

Perfect Entertainment? Bloody hell! Before I started my university course, I'd hardly heard of them (just Discworld Noir), but I've got a lecturer who used to work for that company and on Discworld Noir, and now I learn that they were responsible for the Saturn port of 3D Lemmings. 3D Lemmings is indeed getting weirder than I thought.

So now there's no way I can't have the Saturn port of 3D Lemmings (and also because I'm interested in seeing the port differences first-hand), it's time to increase my Lemmings collection.

[Prob Lem]

Wow, that's uncanny. Any idea if your lecturer was involved with the Saturn port of Lemmings 3D?

[Pooty]

Wow, that's uncanny. Any idea if your lecturer was involved with the Saturn port of Lemmings 3D?

Sadly not. He was involved with Krazy Ivan and Manx TT SuperBike for the Saturn, but not any other games for that system.

[Pooty]

3D Lemmings for the Sega Saturn popped through my letterbox today. Yay!

So naturally, the first thing I did was play it. I did enjoy it, but I feel it pales in comparison to the PlayStation version. A few reasons why.

• The in-game frame rate is much lower. I don't think it affected the real-time speed of the lemmings much, but it did make controlling the game more difficult.
• The PlayStation version uses transparency for the mini-map and the spinning 3D icon on the title screen. The Saturn version uses dithering.
• When you complete a level on the PlayStation version, there is an image in the background that waves like a flag. On the Saturn version, the image seems to spin around on its X, Y and Z axes. This is probably subject to personal preference, but I think the flag wave is better.
• The controls are similar, so I didn't have any trouble with the controls. However, the PlayStation controller's face button positions match the camera movement better, and the PlayStation controller has an extra button (Select), which is used as a shortcut for fast forward. That said, the controls are entirely customizable, so it's a minor point.
• Pausing the game stops the music on the Saturn version. Then again, this could be a strength, depending on your opinion of the game's soundtrack.

On the other hand, the intro FMV seems to run a bit smoother than the PlayStation version, and there appears to be no sign of Jelly Belly.

These are the differences I've noted playing the PAL versions of 3D Lemmings for the Saturn and PlayStation. I've no idea how different it is for the NTSC versions, though.

[Mikex62]

Found some videos on YouTube, all the versions are here plus the Sega Saturn controls.

Dos: Intro + Game play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqPKF9D993w

PS1: Intro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZZu1DDERbw
PS1: "Take A Dive" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W28lyXJyAEM

SS: Intro + Demo controlled levels http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBQNUdpEC-g
SS: Controlled levels http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXfDnBNcqZc

[namida]

link to youtube video(s)?

I'm somewhat surprised that the DOS version has the best performance.  Then again, it may not be an accurate depiction of performance if they were running it on modern PC hardware, as opposed to the hardware available on PCs back in the days.  Or whoever did the console ports didn't do a very good job.

Slow loading times is a consequence of the games running off of CDs I think.  I don't remember but I think the DOS version makes you install the whole game onto your hard drive, right?

I can say 100% for sure that it does not. To the contrary, you're not even given that option properly (though you can simply copy the files manually).