Community pack ratings

Started by geoo, July 19, 2012, 12:30:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

geoo

See these posts for more up-to-date information: http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=648.msg17098#msg17098" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=648.msg17098#msg17098 and http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=648.msg17105#msg17105" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=648.msg17105#msg17105



I'm not arraging levels just now, and you can still submit new levels. But I still want to think about difficulty rating names, and level ordering. And I'd like your input.


Firstly thing, there will be 6-8 ratings. So we have to come up with names for them. Of course, not knowing the number of ratings makes it hard to fix them, but some brainstorming to get names to pick from could still help. In the end, I'd like a somewhat consistent naming scheme, where the names are also sufficiently indicative of the difficulty, i.e., given two rating names, it should be possible to tell which of the two is the harder one.

Possible names:
Trivial, Easy, Medium, Hard, Difficult, Devious, Harrrrrrd, Vicious
Proxima's suggestions: Simple, Quirky, Zany, Lunatic, Manic, Carnage
[your ideas here]


Secondly, rating the difficulty of individual levels. My ratings are subjective, and especially unreliable when it comes to my own levels. If you want, you can input your ratings of the levels. I got a spreadsheet, in MS Excel and Open Office format, that you can use for this purpose.
https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true
There are two empty columns, Difficulty and Quality, both are on a scale from 0.0 to 4.0 in steps of 0.1. I don't know whether I'm going to use the latter, so it's definitely less important than the Difficulty rating.
There are columns for ratings and hints. I was thinking if there was agreement on some level being not that good, we might think of taking some out. You don't have to rate every single one.
I could average the data, or feed it to a database should something like this ever happen.

I just wanted to get this out, as perhaps you have some spare time while I'm away.

Simon

I'm in favor of the well-known Easy, Medium, Hard. Trivial is a good name for something easier than Easy. Difficult and Devious sound equal to Hard. Extreme and Vicious both sound much harder than Hard. Harder might sound easier than the above two, but of course harder than Hard.

Most of Proxima's harder names don't seem to be naturally ordered.

A possible order is thus Trivial, Easy, Medium, Hard, Harder, Vicious.

I'd refrain from using too many ratings. There will always be the pitfall of placing too hard a level in a lower category, and the chance for this is higher with more ratings. If you use 8 ratings for 200 levels, you have to use the 2nd page in the level browser anyway. You might as well put 40 levels in each category, exhausting the 2nd page fully, and go with 6 ratings.

-- Simon

chaos_defrost

I don't really like Trivial as a name at all -- it carries a slight sense of arrogance to it and will put off newer players if they find they can't pass even the "Trivial" set. I like "Simple" for the easiest set -- it gets the point across but doesn't make new players look bad if they get stuck.

Legit laughing at "Harrrrrrrrd" but I don't think anyone but us would get the in-joke. But I mean it isn't like that's stopped people from putting them in games in the past so yea

Something like "Simple, Easy, Moderate, Hard, Very Hard" for the first five, very basic titles that get the point across, and something very foreboding for the hardest set. I like "Lunatic" or "Carnage" -- that said, I also have a particular fondness for my 4th notebook set's "Hopeless" even though that might not be the most fitting name  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

If I get Lix up and running I'll run through the submitted levels and offer my input on difficulties. I think rating them, if we have 6 sets, from 0-6 instead of 0-4 might be better -- 0-1, lowest difficulty, 1-2 = 2nd lowest, ... 5-6 = highest.
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

mobius

Do we have to use the system of decimals; 1.0 to 4.0? It seems unnecessarily complicated. Something like 1-6 or 10 or whatever would be more straightforward. (or just what Steve suggested)
I would propose either have the ratings be the number of difficulties, or, if you want it more detailed just do a 1-~10 rating and divide the rating up accordingly.

I also think trivial is a kind of offensive term when it comes to describing any Lemmings level. And I don't think there should be any trivial levels; even if a level is "fun" and easy it still shouldn't be trivial. Trivial means it was "of very little importance or value; insignificant: Don't bother me with trivial matters" -from the dictionary.

An appropriate title to a rating is good but it can also be fun and catchy without distracting.
I'd suggest looking through the thesaurus for names;
1 (easy)- painless, picnic, accessible, elementary

a few other names in no particular order; baffling, absurdity, frenzy, preposterous, confounding. 
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Proxima

Well, we do have two levels that could legitimately be called trivial -- Insane Steve's "Any Way You Want" can be passed with just one skill in so many different ways that it's hard to fail, and "Lix Potion Number Nine" can be passed with zero skills, making it trivial once you know this trick. Of course, in both cases it's entirely intentional, so I wouldn't say calling these levels trivial is offensive; but I agree that it's not appropriate for the first category. Even really simple levels like geoo's "Minimalism" series take some thought to solve. And considering what the overall difficulty of our levels is like, definitely only the first category should have a name that means "easy".

I still cast my vote for the series I suggested earlier (taken from my Cheapo sets). I think they cohere as a series, and considering that Lemmings and ONML both have excellent memorable names for their categories, I'd be very disappointed if we went with something as bland as "Easy, Medium, Hard". Also, "Carnage" would be particularly appropriate for the last set as its literal meaning is the same as "Mayhem" and "Havoc".

I'll make an attempt at rating the levels when I have time. Unfortunately I don't have any spreadsheet software so I can't view yours.

geoo

Open Office is free and should work on various operating systems for viewing/editing the tables.

I don't see how a linear scale between 1 and 10 is any less complicated than one from 0.0 to 4.0, especially as it starts with 1 for no apparent reason, but whatever. 0.0-6.0 or whatever the rating number might be could work, though I think you won't manage to rate the levels in such a way that there's the same number of levels between any two consecutive integers, meaning the values aren't necessarily representing the rating the level will end up in, but if it makes rating more comfortable for you, that's fine with me too. I'll probably just scale all ratings into the 0.0-4.0 or 0.0-ratings.0 range in the end.

Proxima

#6
I'd rather not install new software just for this 

Anyway, here's my list, containing nearly all the levels I currently have. I left out some that I don't feel merit inclusion -- a few of minimac's, and TM's harder version of Any Way You Want (since IS made a much better harder version of the level). I left out levels I haven't solved, or have been updated since I solved them -- except for a couple in category 7, since I don't need to have solved them to recognise a cat-7 level when I see one These are indicated with italics.

It turns out there are fewer than 240 levels, since some in my "wip" folder were duplicates of levels in the main folder. So cutting it down to six categories would be a possibility -- fortunately, I wouldn't have to restructure my list much in that case, since categories 2 and 3 are completely full, 4 is nearly full, so it would just be a matter of merging 6 and 7 and siphoning off any overflow into 5. However, I know there are a few levels I haven't downloaded, and a few I've played but don't currently have, so... yeah, this is only an overview, not a really serious attempt to arrange the levels.

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.

mobius

here's my pathetic list:

100% Built By Lixes - 3
100 Ways to Die - 1
A Towering Proposition – 2.5
Bobbed-Bobbed-Boo – 1.5
Come on Down - 1
Get Hype - 3
Logging your progress – 1.5
Logging your progress2 – 2
Thomas the Climber – 2.8
Top Gear - 4
No more Heroes – 3.5
Digging the Air – 3

notes: I understand it starts at zero, I just didn't find any to be zero so far.
(again, I know digging the air is easy to us. But I highly doubt it to a newcomer (may as well call me a newcomer) and it is difficult to execute).
-I'm not going to rate my own levels.

-----------------
In another note; I don't care if you want to discard Leap of the Locust--I think it's pretty dumb now. Besides you've already got tutorial levels.
Also, since ccexplore is not here right now, (if I get time (big if)) I'd like to try and fix his brickout. I know it seems doubtful for me to accomplish something which ccexplore couldn't but won't hurt to try.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Proxima

http://www.lemmingsforums.com/index.php?topic=648.msg14268#msg14268">Quote from: thick molasses on 2012-07-22 17:00:54
(again, I know digging the air is easy to us. But I highly doubt it to a newcomer (may as well call me a newcomer) and it is difficult to execute).
That's why I rate "The Razor's Edge" so much harder than geoo does -- it requires a lateral thinking leap that may not be easy even if you're good at solving "normal" Lemmings puzzles. But I think you're jumping to the other extreme with "Diggin' The Air" -- it's not that hard, because there's not much to try, the solution is an obvious consequence of the main functions of the skills involved, and the high number of builders is pretty conspicuous.

Leap of the Locust was never a good tutorial level -- too difficult in execution for that. But it's a good early-main-sequence level, so I definitely vote for keeping it.

I already made a suggestion for fixing Brickout: replace the skills used in the controversial turning manoeuvre with a single walker. (It would still be hard enough to be in the last 5 or 10 levels!) Possibly, doing so would mean some of the ad hoc backroute-fixes could be removed. I hope I'll have time to look further into this -- it's a really good level and we should made sure it goes in.

geoo

#9
List of rating names in level packs

Thanks for bringing this up and compiling such a list, and belated happy birthday, Akseli! :)

Yeah, I thought about it a little more, and while I still think that it's important to be able to tell which names are which difficulty stage just from the names, maybe it can still be achieved while using more creative names than just easy/medium/hard/...
And I'll definitely be going for 6x40 levels, so 6 stages.

I definitely like the start from Proxima's list with Simple and Quirky. Carnage is pretty neat too, but I think Steve's Hopeless just beats it. I think Lunatic and Manic are a bit hard to tell apart difficulty-wise, so I'd rather use just one of these, and I kinda like Vicious as a stage name. I came up with Taunting and Elusive, both of which I quite like too, probably more than vicious even. So here's some suggestions:
Simple, Quirky, Zany, Taunting/Manic, Elusive/Vicious, Hopeless
Simple, Quirky, Taunting, Elusive, Vicious, Hopeless (too much of a difficulty jump from Quirky to Taunting?)
I also like about these that they are all adjectives, and none is overly long. Any opinions on these?

Proxima

Vicious is a good name. Less keen on Elusive, since it doesn't mean the levels are elusive, it's a roundabout way of saying the solutions are. The first list -- Simple, Quirky, Zany, Manic, Vicious, Hopeless -- gets my vote, though would still prefer Carnage for reasons stated earlier.

chaos_defrost

Thing is, I like Vicious, Carnage, and Hopless (in that order) for level sets, and really when you consider the difficulty cliff we've invented with our customs, they can all work.

I'd go: Simple -> Quirky (actually the 2nd easiest set is the one I'm having a hard time naming) -> Cunning (I'd imagine in set 3 is about where your lateral thinking skills are going to have to step it up) -> Gutsy (A harder name, but a good lead-up to what to expect in the last three sets) -> Vicious -> Carnage -> Hopeless (again, self-bias here, but come on you are making a puzzle game and you have the gall to call the hardest difficulty "Hopeless" -- this is going to make the very good players of your game just WANT to pass the hardest levels to prove you wrong  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

geoo

As in the other thread for the Lemmini/Lemmix pack topic it was suggested I should finally get this done, and to avoid overlap with the names, (and I actually sorted a little more through the level recently), here goes...

I actually really like Steve's suggestion, but it has 7 stages. But that works out perfectly, as it seems Carnage will be used for the other pack, and what's left are all adjectives, so unless there are big objections I'll just go with:
Simple -> Quirky -> Cunning -> Gutsy/Taunting -> Vicious -> Hopeless

Proxima

Möbius hasn't yet responded, so at the moment my suggestions in the other topic are no more than suggestions. But both "Carnage" and "Hopeless" can only be used for the last set, so we can shelve that question and decide on the first five  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

I still would rather not use anything that's been used before, but if you insist on "Cunning" over "Zany", it's not a bad name.

Definitely not "Gutsy", it's too colloquial and doesn't fit well with the other five.

geoo

Yeah, Gutsy was definitely the one from the list I was least fond of, that's why I suggested taunting as an alternative (which I actually like quite a lot, though didn't get any feedback on). Could also play on taunting/daunting.

Hopeless technically is a repeat too, but I'm not too concerned about repeats as long as it's not a repeat of some other Lix set, in the end few people will even be aware that something is a repeat.

The reason I prefer cunning/taunting over zany/manic is that I feel they fit the scheme better, they are more descriptive of the actual difficulty, while zany/manic are attributes going into a different dimension. So yeah, overall my current (strong) preference is Simple -> Quirky -> Cunning -> Taunting -> Vicious -> Hopeless.

Proxima

That seems like good reasoning to me. I'm not wild about "Taunting", but it's not bad, and that set does go well together as a series.

chaos_defrost

A bit late to the party. I think I like "Daunting > Taunting" for the 4th set. As Cunning suggests that you're going to have to step up your thinking skills to clear the set (which is about right for a Tier 3 level aimed at Lemmings fans), "Daunting" suggests that you're going to have to start to quell those "How on earth?!" initial reactions to a puzzle that seems impossible at first glance but can be reasoned (which is about right for a Tier 4 level).

So: Simple -> Quirky -> Cunning -> Daunting -> Vicious -> Hopeless for me.

Also: Even though it's a somewhat easy level for the last set, definitely suggesting "Just Stop The Bleeding" as Hopeless 1. The metaphorical parallel between the absolute easiest non-tutorial level in the game being ramped up to your introduction to Hell is just too perfect, in my opinion.

The other tiers I like as they are:

Simple: A mix of tutorial levels, very easy Fun-type levels, and later a few basic puzzles. Gets the point across that this isn't a particularly hard set, but is also not super-condescending towards new players who will struggle with even set 1 at times.
Quirky: This set is going to wind up being an eclectic mix of higher-end Tricky X-of a skill levels, slightly more difficult puzzle levels, and a couple levels that require lateral leaps but have a limited enough skillset to where a player will eventually stumble upon the right method in a reasonable time. In other words, it's a mixed bag of moderate difficulty levels.
Cunning: [explained earlier]
Vicious: Pretty self-explanatory. It's very hard. All around. And yet, there's one set even worse...
Hopeless: "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here." As opposed to avoiding a smug rating for the easiest set, I like a smug rating for the hardest set. It gives an additional push to an expert player to beat us just to show that no, it's not Hopeless after all. But at the same time, it basically is telling everyone who isn't skilled enough to attempt the set "Yea, try a lower tier. You WILL get obliterated by these puzzles." Last, it's very absolute: "Vicious" is a pretty graphic word, but it's possible to think of even more gratuitous synonyms. What on earth can you describe as more imposing than "Hopeless?"
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

Proxima

Ooh. "Daunting" is much better. Nice one.

RubiX

Daunting is a good fitting word for sure.  Nice!

geoo

I think I'm pretty much going to follow Steve's outline and naming scheme.
The only thing I'm not fully sold on is "Just Stop The Bleeding" as Hopeless 1. I definitely like the idea you're getting at, and everyone instantly falling off a cliff is a nice twist too. But difficulty-wise it'd maybe fit for Vicious, but for Hopeless I think it's just too easy (unless you can significantly ramp up its difficulty via some modifications). I was having Recycling Plant in mind for Hopeless 1. As a level that's hopeless until you get the main idea, I think it's representative of a lot of levels in the category, while the main idea is not that obscure that it'd belong further back in Hopeless.

On a different note, I added Proxima's and mobius' ratings into my spreadsheet so I have them immediately in sight when ordering the levels.

Proxima

I also think "Just Stop the Bleeding" is not tricky enough for Hopeless 1 -- although in my ordering I put it as Set 6 Level 1 out of 7 sets, and the last two sets were incomplete, so it may seem I was ranking it as the 34th-hardest level -- my ordering did leave out a few levels I haven't solved yet, Recycling Plant being among them.

This seems an appropriate place to give my rationale for my other choices for Level 1s:

1.1 Any Way You Want (I.S.) -- obvious choice, I don't think there's any dispute here.
2.1 The Adventure Playground (Proxima) -- unique level with all skills unlimited, but quite a bit of tricky terrain to traverse. Placing it in the second set, but as the very first level of that set, seems a good way to accommodate it.
3.1 LIX (Proxima) -- not a very serious level, but as it's based on the name of the game, I thought it would be a fun way to start a set.
4.1 Rhapsody (I.S.) -- Insane Steve's signature piece, so to speak, and a good introduction to his harder levels. Also, placing it at the start of a set makes it more memorable, which gives more impact when the player reaches "Rhapsody in Blue"!
5.1 Dividing Three By Two (Proxima) -- Seems appropriate as this level is based on Taxing 1 of the original game. As it might be a bit unfair of me to give three Level 1 slots to my own levels, an alternative would be "Variety Day" (namida).
7.1 Don't Catch Me if You Can (geoo) -- Very simple but completely impossible until you spot it, which is exactly what you want for the starter level of the last set!

chaos_defrost

Yea, even I'll admit putting Just Stop the Bleeding in set 6 is a stretch, but I both have a weird fetish for ironic symbolism and like putting levels slightly easier than the average difficulty of the set near the start of a set so that something like Taxing doesn't happen.

That said, given that the levels can be played out of order and that Hopeless is meant to be a gigantic kick to the groin all around, I can concur JSTB is too easy for set 6. First levels from me:

Simple: Any Way You Want. This level was DESIGNED to be as easy as a non-tutorial level gets.
Quirky: The Adventure Playground. It actually fits the title of the set perfectly, being (I think) the only level which gives you infinitely many skills, but is still not easy.
Cunning: (at the risk of sounding self-centered) The Razor's Edge. There's not much to try, but the solution requires a bizarre lateral leap, worthy of this set's title. I like LIX in late Quirky, because it is a quirky level after all.
Daunting: Rhapsody. It's my magnum opus (pun intended), son, I'd love this to be the first in a set, and this is about the right difficulty for it.
Vicious: I'll concur with Dividing Three By Two here, for symbolism.
Hopeless: Thinking perhaps either Path of Wickedness or Tinker Tailor Soldier Lix for this one. Don't Catch Me if you Can, honestly feels a bit too hard for the intro level. An earlier Hopeless level, sure, but not quite 1. And I've looked for at while a Recycling Plant without getting it, so I also think it's a bit hard for the first level.

As with Proxima, though, this puts three of my own levels as openers. Granted I wrote Simple 1 for the explicit purpose of being too easy to fail, but...

also, geoo, can you put a complete list of every level submitted to the pack? The list in the OP is a bit outdated. Thanks.
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

geoo

I put a few hours into it today and updated the files and the list.

All levels and level list in an archive:
https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/archive/gh-pages.zip" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/archive/gh-pages.zip
If you want the levels sorted approximately by difficulty, put this file in your lixlfpack folder: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43603680/_order.X.txt" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43603680/_order.X.txt (There are five levels at the end that don't belong there, but I'm not fixing that now.)

Level list only: https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://github.com/geoo89/lixlfpack/blob/gh-pages/lixlfpack.xls?raw=true
As html: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43603680/index.html" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43603680/index.html

That's 241+2 levels (Want to remake Stroke at Retirement Age, and probably a time limit level I had in mind). I also want to add 4 or 5 more tutorial-like levels for the first rating that present some tricks for later levels, and to smooth out the difficulty curve at the start. There are a few levels that have been posted that aren't in there yet, I'll post a folder with them probably sometime tomorrow for discussion. So either way we will have a slight surplus of levels. The number of levels per rating will stay at 40 (that's two pages in Lix). I'm rather reluctant to add a new rating, so rather than adding 40 more levels, my intention is to ask you for input on levels that you are not too hot about and think may be worth taking out. I suppose this will also guarantee that the levels included are of really good quality.

You can still rate levels, for that either fill in the column after Proxima's rating with your ratings in the spread sheet, or post a .txt file in the following format: each line contains the ID of a level (see list), followed by a space and your rating.

Furthermore, Lix is going to get a hint system like Cheapo. So a level can have a first hint, second hint, and so on, as many hints as you like. The later hints should give more information than earlier hints, no guidelines apart from that, be creative http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />. I encourage you to submit hints to your levels. For that purpose, either use the columns in the spreadsheet at the very end (there are a few samples in there, for e.g. Cold Iron's Bound), or submit a .txt file in the following format: An entry contains the level ID, and a list of hints, each on a separate line. Leave a blank line between the entries for different levels.


I like the suggestions for the first levels of each rating, I definitely concur with the 4 levels you two got a consensus on. As for Recycling Plant, I think it fits Proxima's description pretty accurately: "Very simple but completely impossible until you spot it, which is exactly what you want for the starter level of the last set!". I have no idea how hard it is to spot though, I didn't try to hide it in particular. I remember Simon seeing the idea pretty quickly in the L2 version of the level (which is arguably harder), so I didn't think it too hard. I initially rated it 3.0, but I removed my rating later. I'm very fond of that level (I think it can be seen in the effort I put into decoration http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />), it's probably the favourite of my own levels. I guess we shall see whether there are 30-40 harder levels in the pack or not.
I hope Akseli will give this entire pack a go once I put a preliminary level order down.

Akseli

I hope Akseli will give this entire pack a go once I put a preliminary level order down.
Definitely I want to. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" class="smiley" />

I've been lurking Lix Community Level Set at times and thinking that I could give my input by testing levels and rating them, if there aren't too many people doing that already. But then I wondered if I want to play this whole levelset when it'll be already completed. Because, I've recently been beta testing and helping with so many levelpacks and projects. I thought that I'd like to play entirely myself even something without seeing it beforehand, and Lix Community Level Set seemed very, very promising.

So, is there still lots of work with the backroutes, the difficulty curve etc.? Or will it be so complete set that I can just lay back and enjoy playing it and then give my thoughts and solutions, for example?

RubiX

 http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" />   yay to continued work on this project http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/smiley.gif" alt=":)" title="Smiley" class="smiley" />

geoo

I just realized that there were 13 levels that I forgot to include (will update files within the next hour), so we're at a total for 254+2 now, which makes things a bit tricky, as while scrapping around 5 existing levels wouldn't have been too hard, scrapping about 20 might be a bit harsh considering that pretty much all of the levels are of decent quality. I have to come up with a solution, so I'm going to ask for your input. I see three possible solutions here:
1. Go ahead and scrap 20 existing levels to get down to 240.
2. Have 7 ratings instead, meaning we have to come up with a new rating name (before or after cunning maybe? maybe stunning? http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />) for a whopping total of 280 levels. Getting 20 more levels shouldn't be an issue, considering I want to add some more easy first-stage levels and there are also minimac's levels none of which are included yet.
3. Go for 7 ratings (again, have to come up with a new name), but have Hopeless only contain 20 levels, so it really lives up to its name containing the 20 most difficult levels.

To me all options have advantages and disadvantages, so I don't quite know what to do (and I've grown quite fond of our naming scheme for the 6 stages).


So, is there still lots of work with the backroutes, the difficulty curve etc.? Or will it be so complete set that I can just lay back and enjoy playing it and then give my thoughts and solutions, for example?
I'd let you wait to try it until it is pretty much complete.
As of now, most levels have been thoroughly backroute tested, however the difficulty curve is something I still have to work on.
For this purpose my plan is to try to set up a preliminary version for the previous testers to have a look at (especially with regards to the difficulty curve), and once I incorporated the suggestions release a second (near final) version for you to play. Near final meaning I'll take you commentary into account and maybe do changes accordingly, e.g. with respect to the difficulty curve or backroutes.

Proxima

I'm all in favour of including more levels, especially as I still have some more that I want to make, and now that my course has finished, I should finally have enough free time to do that.  http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" />

In the column with "backroutes", "which version" etc., what do the dots mean?

Halfway Down the Stairs has to be scrapped unless the climber/bomber bug gets fixed. I hope it does, because I think it's one of my best levels.

Finale still needs fixing -- as do Seven Pillars of Lixdom/It's all about survival, which aren't on your list.

chaos_defrost

Talking a bit in chat about first levels, and I'm on board with Recycling Plant as Hopeless 1 now. Mainly because it's such a beautiful level, and I like the idea of the first levels all looking good. Meaning I'd need to add some more refined terrain to Rhapsody[--].

...and Any Way You Want. I half-jokingly said there should be 3 screens of completely pointless decorative terrain on both sides to make it pretty (and then totally jokingly suggested Proxima be the one to do it because of how amazing Goblin City et.al. turned out), and then not at all jokingly suggested a 20 of all skill level where the exit is moved to one (or both) ends of the decorative terrain for Quirky.

Anyone on board? I'm not the I.M. Pei of level design (Exhibit A: The Hole in the Head Gang). So, yea.

Speaking of which, if this were done, the decorative terrain for Just Stop the Bleeding would be given the Hole in the Head Gang treatment for shock and comedic value. I'd be on board to be the ultimate corrupter myself.
"こんなげーむにまじになっちゃってどうするの"

~"Beat" Takeshi Kitano

Akseli

So, is there still lots of work with the backroutes, the difficulty curve etc.? Or will it be so complete set that I can just lay back and enjoy playing it and then give my thoughts and solutions, for example?
I'd let you wait to try it until it is pretty much complete.
As of now, most levels have been thoroughly backroute tested, however the difficulty curve is something I still have to work on.
For this purpose my plan is to try to set up a preliminary version for the previous testers to have a look at (especially with regards to the difficulty curve), and once I incorporated the suggestions release a second (near final) version for you to play. Near final meaning I'll take you commentary into account and maybe do changes accordingly, e.g. with respect to the difficulty curve or backroutes.

Oh, wow, that's so kind, thanks! http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/thumbsup.gif" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbs Up" class="smiley" /> I hope I didn't seem too selfish with my wish.

I'm definitely looking forward to play this Lix pack. I think I haven't mentioned yet anywhere, but yeap I have been playing Lix a bit at times during the last year and getting used to it. I'm still far from a good player, practising myself still to use better skills like Cuber and Batter. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> I've played Clam's and Rubix's sets to Arcane and Perplexing ratings, having many troubles there. So, maybe it's useful, that when I'll play the Lix Community Level Set, I see it through eyes of a more casual player perhaps than you, because I don't know the coolest Lix tricks yet. http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/tongue.gif" alt=":P" title="Tongue" class="smiley" /> But of course you don't need to wait for my input for the near final release (if I'm too slow or something http://www.lemmingsforums.com/Smileys/lemmings/laugh.gif" alt=":D" title="Laugh" class="smiley" />) if you don't find it necessary.

Btw, should I remake my contest level, "Feel the Pressure", or has someone done it already? I recall that someone recommended remaking contest levels for this Lix pack. Or do you have better/too similar levels there already?

Proxima

Btw, should I remake my contest level, "Feel the Pressure", or has someone done it already? I recall that someone recommended remaking contest levels for this Lix pack. Or do you have better/too similar levels there already?

You certainly can if you wish. I've remade my "Brute Fours" in Lix, and geoo is doing "Stroke at Retirement Age".

Proxima

#30
Quote from: Insane Steve on 2013-07-23 21:40:07
Quote...and Any Way You Want. I half-jokingly said there should be 3 screens of completely pointless decorative terrain on both sides to make it pretty (and then totally jokingly suggested Proxima be the one to do it because of how amazing Goblin City et.al. turned out), and then not at all jokingly suggested a 20 of all skill level where the exit is moved to one (or both) ends of the decorative terrain for Quirky.
Like so?

Mod Edit: Restored attachments.