for some reason I had a hard time explaining myself and wording this post so apologies if it's really difficult to understand
The problem is, that cloners are the only skill you are forced to use up. Depending on the playstyle, one might think of doing this (if one counts the lemmings saved, which depends on using cloners) or not (if one counts the lemmings killed, which does not depend on using cloners).
If I am the only one, who constantly forgets using cloners to just create more lemmings, then nothing needs to be changed (except my solutions ).
I don't see how/why you would be forced to always use all the cloners available.
Like my example, you can have a level with cloners that are not necessary to be used? Granted; like I said, while certain situations may be impossible or difficult to create... Another example is the level I made in which all the cloners used must die, so the count would essentially be the same as if the cloners didn't exist at all. If we went to the trouble of making the counts factor in cloner skills we'd also then have to have further options to account for situations like these.
In any case, unless I'm missing something isn't there an inerrant problem here with enforcing that skill counts be injected into the scoring like this?
If you are talking about adding remaining cloner skills to the final saved score, then: Oops
, you are totally correct. If a level has one lemming coming out of the hatch, 9 cloner skills and a save requirement of 5 lemmings, then the player should certainly
not be able to solve the level just by nuking straight away.
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What I was really referring to was the above. Personally I haven't had any irritating problems with this, but as I've said before; I have not played an abundant amount of cloner levels so I may not be the best person to ask.
For one thing, if I want to replay, this usually happens when I realize the level is cooked long before or shortly before it ends so I just press R, and skip the whole end screen process [which is very nice]. While if I let the level end and go to the end screen, I usually don't want to replay it.
Sorry, different experience here: I frequently arrive at the results screen, because I (mistakenly)
think I solved the level for one reason or another. And whether I want to replay the level and/or my solution, very strongly correlates with the results screen giving a success or a failure message.
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I usually think both ways: of how many saved and how many I can lose. But when I see the cloners I immediately factor this into my count. I can, however see how this could get complicated if say there are 50 Lems, a requirement of 45, and 5 cloners, but it's a given that over 5 lems must die. Let's say 10 lems must die but with the cloners you can make the comeback to 45. But I still am against factoring cloners, or ANY skill for that matter into the count. It would make things much more complicated in unforseen ways I think.
OH: here's a good example. Like how I personally hate the way zombies are currently calculated. Namida's already said he's planning to adjust this, so I'm not trying to sound angry. Currently either on the game screen or menu screen [can't remember which] zombie's are figured into the actual Lem count. Here's why I think it's totally confusing: first of all they are not "Lemmings" they should be treated as an enemy, a separate game element. The level will say 100 lemmings on the menu, but when level starts only 96 lemmings come out because there are four zombie's. This is confusing, and I think having the cloner count be factored this way would be similar. You'd start with the information on the menu screen thinking one thing but then once the level begins and you see the cloners you have to readjust your thinking?... I'm not really sure.
it's a little off-topic but when I tried really hard to make levels using cloners and the other new skills I found it very difficult. But that's probably me just not having ideas...
And here just one more random thought:
What do you think of automatically assigning all remaining cloner skills one frame before the final lemming exits the level?
I'm strongly opposed to that. It really doesn't make any sense to me at all; it simultanously makes the game easier/a little pointless by making the player's job more useless and takes control away from the player. But how would this benefit any situation anyway? That's assuming that it's alright for the cloners to be used at the end.
But this brings up an interesting point; so far, all the cloner levels I've played MAY be able to be played in this exact way as you described. But that's certainlty not the way it has to be. Again, in my own level's example. The cloners must be used at a critical point in the level [not at the end, because they need to pick up pick-skills...]. Using them at the very end wouldn't work.
Wait a minute... cloners turn around, so how would that even work for them to exit? I'm sorry I don't think I understand this at all.
I ran out of time I wanted to explain myself better but have to go.