Simon streamed Lix, Sat, 2024-02-24

[Simon]

Now live with geoo's levelpack:
https://www.twitch.tv/simonnaar

-- Simon

[mobius]

GG on solving Last Laugh! Your solution actually is a tad different than intended but its fine. If you look at the replay you'll see actually you made it a tad more complicated than it needed to be.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'd be surprised that other things are possible but that already happened when people got to the other exit!

I'm honestly still shocked people are finding this level this difficult. Maybe it's just the way the level was created; the solution felt ad hoc at the time, with lots of red herrings. I didn't forsee it being viewed as this creative. I'm glad people liked it and convinced me to leave it be.

also gg on Elixir,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

yes that one build on the right side is the hard part. Initially I had a solution that involved falling through the tiny crack but it was backrouted severely. Geoo came up with that new part and took me a while to solve it.

Like I said during the stream your alternate solution to Five for Fighting is fine.

I'm still rewatching the parts I missed. If there's anything else I'll comment later.

[Simon]

Thanks!

I agree that the proof replay for Last Laugh is even easier, I should have found that, but my route was indeed close enough and not too awkward a complication. Cute level, it looks impossible at first.

For completeness, I've attached my Vicious replays.


Next stream was Thu, 2022-12-22 at 18:00 UTC.

Bonus surprise: In my lunch break today, I've hacked together a Lix version that doesn't cut the replay on assignment. Every assignment will insert into the replay. To cut the replay, I'll have to click air. Let's see how it feels. I'll also start a forum topic around Christmas on this idea. This might be a really awkward change, or it can be the searing beam of reason from the future of singleplayer.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over! Vicious with the replay-insert feature that cuts only the future of the single lix.

Replays are attached:
100-built-by-lixes-Simon-2022-12-22-195422.txt
allaboardthepain-Simon-2022-12-22-215452.txt
allaboardthepain-Simon-2023-01-02-215519.txt
allaboardthepain-Simon-2023-01-02-215658.txt
brutefours-Simon-2022-12-22-194255.txt
brutefours-Simon-2022-12-22-194648.txt
brutefours-Simon-2022-12-22-194803.txt
downamong-Simon-2022-12-22-190945.txt
gethype-Simon-2022-12-22-220038.txt
heedthetrafficlight-Simon-2023-01-02-232609.txt
survivalofthecraft-Simon-2022-12-22-214445.txt
theresa-Simon-2023-01-02-224608.txt
tinkertailorsoldier-Simon-2022-12-22-205523.txt
waltzincsharp-Simon-2023-01-02-212651.txt

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over! Four hours of level solving. I've now solved 39/40 Vicious levels. Only The Circular Ruins is left. Replays are attached for posterity.

Toccata is the alternative solution that Ramond also found and that Proxima decides to keep. We've watched Proxima's proof replay with the intended solution on stream.

Alien Invasion is likely still backroutish, even though it's better than all of my ancient backrouting of Alien Invasion in 2012. I don't know the intended solution.

Dream the Impossible Dream is a backroute fueled by precise timing. I don't know the intended solution.

3111-Simon-2023-01-03-211310.txt
alieninvasion-Simon-2023-01-03-230722.txt
chasm-Simon-2023-01-03-214044.txt
dreamtheimpossible-Simon-2023-01-03-210109.txt
finale-Simon-2023-01-03-212625.txt
halfwaydownthestairs-Simon-2023-01-03-193947.txt
thisisastickup-Simon-2023-01-03-220055.txt
thomastheclimber-Simon-2023-01-03-225827.txt
toccata-Simon-2023-01-03-224952.txt
trapeze-Simon-2023-01-03-222159.txt

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over! Replays are attached.

Hotel in Hell: It's a backroute, and Proxima has already fixed the backroute for 0.10.4. (I played with a Lix version that already called itself 0.10.4 but wasn't released yet, and we added the backroute fix between that version and the 0.10.4 release.)

bipolar-Simon-2023-01-08-154001.txt
closetotheedge-Simon-2023-01-08-155208.txt
crownjewelheist-Simon-2023-01-08-172419.txt
emptyspace-Simon-2023-01-08-153655.txt
evacuatethesinking-Simon-2023-01-08-170514.txt
hopeless-simon-2023-01-08.zip
recyclingplant-Simon-2023-01-08-153030.txt
thehotelinhell-Simon-2023-01-08-164106.txt

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over!

Replays are attached. Yuki Muon and Division of Labor are backroutes. Division of Labor, I've already fixed it with another steel cube in the central high wall. I don't know the intended solutions to either; I'll see how Proxima fixes Yuki Muon.

ascending-Simon-2023-01-11-222334.txt
divisionoflabor-Simon-2023-01-11-212210.txt
fromtheotherside-Simon-2023-01-11-224606.txt
panicattack-Simon-2023-01-11-221543.txt
parkinggarage-Simon-2023-01-11-223650.txt
stuffintheway-Simon-2023-01-11-225509.txt
systematicsep-Simon-2023-01-11-214805.txt
yukimuon-Simon-2023-01-11-011740.txt

-- Simon

[mobius]

Division of Labor, aha Pieuw even made this (or very similar fix) in his own level, I recognize it now. Should've thought of this before, but then I wasn't really working on Lix, so it's okay.

Good job on solving so many hopeless levels in one sitting!

[Simon]

Stream is over! Thanks for watching. Replays are attached.

Division of Labor is a backroute that abuses the peculiar basher stopping conditions.

Hopeless/bashingandbuilding-Simon-2023-01-20-204914.txt
Hopeless/bashingandbuilding-Simon-2023-01-20-205109.txt
Hopeless/divisionoflabor-Simon-2023-01-20-203616.txt
Hopeless/nomoreheroes-Simon-2023-01-20-215858.txt
Hopeless/thehotelinhell-Simon-2023-01-20-201938.txt
Hopeless/trading-Simon-2023-01-20-213152.txt
Vicious/downamong-Simon-2023-01-20-194036.txt
Vicious/theresa-Simon-2023-01-20-195947.txt
Vicious/tinkertailorsoldier-Simon-2023-01-20-195601.txt
Vicious/waitwhyisthereatree-Simon-2023-01-20-195305.txt

-- Simon

[chaos_defrost]

Just watched - thanks for a dope stream! At this point, I do have to skip a fair amount due to not wanting to spoil solutions for some levels

Thoughts on levels I wrote:

WhyTree:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not exactly as I did this, but I think the real backroute designator is "is the two drillers/imploder" way to turn some number of Lix on top not needed? You sent fewer climbers both over and under than I did, but I think I overcomplicated this, and the skills essentially went where they needed to. Think this level's now good, but might be a bit easier than its current position due to the new terrain clue?

No More Heroes:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pretty much as intended. The floater is a decoy skill iirc. When I wrote this, time limits in levels were still allowed, so may want to re-visit because it was originally lose 3 but a blocker was needed to beat the timer.

[Simon]

Thanks for the feedback!

I think WhyTree is ranked well as is; I could live with a downrank to mid-Vicious in a pinch:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I turned the walker with a digger's dent in a working digger's pit. This is is reasonably straightforward after you know that the digger can stand on either of 3 lo-res pixels (6 hi-res pixels), unlike most skills that can only stand on a single lo-res pixel.

But if you don't know that, you must time the second digger to sync perfectly with the first. Unsynched second diggers will lose ground (caused by the first digger) before they reach the digging frame, which is the final frame of the digger's cycle. Synching is hard or maybe impossible in WhyTree. The spawn interval and starting area generates clusters, not spread-out lix; you have little choice here.

Other solutions, if you're forced to find them (because you don't know about my method of turning walkers with two diggers), again qualify for late Vicious where WhyTree already is.

Thanks for creating this rich set of puzzles! Most of lemforum came together ten years ago, and I've only attacked the harder puzzles in the past few months.

-- Simon

[Simon]

I streamed for 2 hours today and didn't announce it beforehand because I merely wanted to experiment with backroute-fixing Division of Labor.

In the end, I solved 3 levels: Division of Labor (with my proposed backroute fix, a little triangle), One Step Off, We're in This One Together. I've attached the replays.

-- Simon

[mobius]

ah I was away from my PC most of the weekend, sad I missed. I will have to catch up. And take a closer look at that strange basher behavoir; don't know if I knew about this.

No More Heroes; still haven't solved this level 10 years later, despite giving it a decent attempts along the way O_o .

[mobius]

after listening to your latest stream; I agree with your comments on graphics. I think I like graphics that aren't too plain but not too busy either. This is why I like the sets like the Tapir and abstract and construction sets a lot, despite them appearing kind of plain at first glance compared to old Lemmings, I like them quite a bit.

-----

as I said somewhere; the backroute fix to Division of Labor is fine, but I still think that basher behavior should be addressed, unless this is the very first time this has come up then maybe it's a rare corner case. ??
I feel like this maybe has come up before but now it appears I've spent so much time in this community that I'm easily getting old things like this mixed up and my memory is too fuzzy.

yes; your solution was 95% intended btw. The solving replay does it slightly differently, I think by having

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the basher mine into the stair from above and the builder turns and builds the final bridge. But your way is less precise and requires no guess work.

[Simon]

Thanks for the feedback! Yes, that spoiler said exactly what I figured it would probably say.

Next Hopeless stream will be in a few weeks. I'll be busy this weekend. Next week, geoo will visit me for a few days, and there is already a multiplayer session.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over. lemforum/Hopeless: Metal City Mayhem and Las Ranas Hermanas, both still unsolved. I showed some bugs in the reworking towards the scissors button. Lots of things to do.

-- Simon

[Simon]

The UI bugs from the previous stream (Sunday, May 21st) are now fixed.

For the next stream: I'm still not sure if the scissors button is really the best UI. We'll see. The main point of the stream is to test the scissors button myself more. Maybe the levels are getting too difficult for your entertainment, I can't promise anymore that I'll solve anything.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over.

I spent another hour on Metal City Mayhem, haven't solved it. I think I've sunk 2-3 hours total into it so far, plus subconcious brainstorming between streams.

I solved Behind Bars in 1 hour and 20 minutes, minus a few side conversations with the stream chatters. Replay attached. I remember how I helped Proxima backroute-fix Behind Bars 8 (?) years ago. Since then, I've completely forgotten the solution. I re-solved it today from scratch.

Next, I think I'd like to work on alternate ideas for replay cancelling than the scissors button: More user options on how/when to cut or insert based on whether the tweaker is open or not. Maybe you always want to insert, or only when the tweaker is open, we'll have to see what good default options are. I'll post it all in the scissors button topic.

-- Simon

[Proxima]

Congrats Solution to Behind Bars is correct. I like the way you interpreted "behind bars" to refer to

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the lix getting stuck in the top of the left chamber

...that had not been on my mind at all, but it fits perfectly!

[Simon]

Thanks for the feedback!

-- Simon

[Dullstar]

I thought I'd let you know this is a thing, but it's up to you if it's worth the effort or not: apparently, if you make a highlight out of a VOD, the VOD will still disappear after 14 days but the highlight won't; assuming they haven't changed anything about it since I tried it and just didn't update the system to delete the old highlights, as far as I know there's nothing that stops you from making a highlight that's just the entire VOD.

[Simon]

From the 2023-05-24 stream, I've highlit:
User Interface Design Ramblings: Scissors Button, Replay Editing (5 minutes, twitch)

Instead of highlighting entire streams, I'd rather summarize and post the replays here. But it's not a dilemma. If you want, I can start highlighting entire solving sessions to subvert the 14-day purge. Ramond did that for Lovely through Daunting.

-- Simon

[mobius]

It's already too late but I would appreciate the saving of the whole thing as I didn't even know about this session until now.

[Simon]

I'll livestream more singleplayer tomorrow, Sunday 18th, 17:00 UTC, which is 19:00 German DST.

We'll see if late Hopeless is too hard. Most likely, I'll jump around more Hopeless. Eventually, I want to solve Rubix's pack, Clamlix, and Nepsterlix.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Solved two Hopeless levels on yesterday's stream:

Devil's Right Hand
Lix Lies down on Broadway

Replays attached. Nepster isn't around, who else (geoo?) knows Devil's Right Hand to judge the solution? Lix Lies down on Broadway looks very much intended.

-- Simon

[Forestidia86]

Solution to Devil's Right Hand is different to both lemforum-replay-solutions.

[mobius]

Good job on Lix lies down; intended.

Devil's right hand; somehow shocked yet not really that's there's more solutions.. Still one of the hardest, if not the hardest level I've ever solved, and I no longer remember my solution. Could not solve it last time I tried some months ago after an hour or so.

[Simon]

Now live. Stream is over!

It was a short stream, 1 hour 30 minutes. I've played geoo's 3 levels for Level Design Contest 28. I've solved Frog Clog and Underground Club. I haven't solved Fast Food Forest yet.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Winter time is ideal for developing and playing games. Let's have more of it.

I streamed singleplayer Lix on Sunday, Nov 26th 12:00 UTC.

I'll solve more singleplayer levels: Lemforum Hopeless 2nd half, or, if that proves too hard, other Lix singleplayer packs (Rubix, Nepster, Clam). I have to create entries for the level design contest, but the contest rules forbid showing the levels in advance apart from sending it to 1-2 playtesters. Can't build a contest entry on stream. Thus, more solving on stream. Share your solution ideas in chat freely, unless you remember the exact solution.

I'm on the lovely early rhythm where I go to bed in the early evening and sleep until after midnight. But streaming in early European morning is bad for both Europeans and Americans. I'll wait until Sunday noon.

-- Simon

[mobius]

nice! thanks for the heads-up.

By chance, I've recently been feeling like puzzle solving again, so I might try some myself.

[Simon]

Stream is over. Recording will remain for 14 days at:
https://www.twitch.tv/simonnaar

I solved mobius's Eye of the Needle -- two lovely ideas, excellent puzzle! Replay attached.

I backrouted Proxima's Continuum Hypothesis, even though it felt correct. Replay attached.

Proxima asked for geoo's replay of Continuum Hypothesis; it's in the proof collection:
https://github.com/SimonN/lemforum-replays/tree/master/lemforum/Hopeless

-- Simon

[geoo]

As Proxima mentioned, Continuum Hypothesis is a backroute. Given my solution, it could be fixed by cutting a bomber, but my hunch is that this would eliminate Proxima's solution (which I expect is a variation that's less tight on execution).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I assume you're compressing between two blockers, and bombing one of them?

For Eye of the Needle, your solution differs from the intended one quite significantly. Removing the feature that Simon exploited on the left, or bumping up the requirement to 8/10 (at the cost of slightly trickier execution) could work here.

Edit Simon 2024-02-05: I've split this discussion into a separate topic for Eye of the Needle.

[Simon]

Next steam: Wednesday, February 7th, 2024, starting 17:00 UTC, which is 18:00 German/Austrian local time.

I'll play geoo's singleplayer levels. This is a new pack that we'll ship with Lix in the future. Some levels I've seen, many levels I haven't seen. Help solve, give pre-release feedback.

-- Simon

[geoo]

If you want to watch some of the stream without getting spoiled, I'm posting the levels here, so you can have a look already (you can also find them on github if you prefer: https://github.com/geoo89/LixD/tree/geoo-levelpack). Simon has already played some of the levels, I'm not sure if he's planning to skip those or demonstrate the solutions.
Many levels are short (more than half have 5 skills or less), and they are sorted thematically rather than by difficulty. In particular, there is a rank exploring ideas around the wrap around mechanic, and one about dynamic crowd control.

I will make a proper release thread after the stream, with backroute fixes for any levels that may have backroutes. If you don't plan on watching Simon's stream, maybe you can hold out until the proper release

[Ramon]

Ohh is there potential to turn this into another race

[geoo]

Hah, sure! Do you happen to be free at that time? (Of course, unless Simon wants to have a chill stream.)

Otherwise I can also see how far Simon makes it, and then compile a level progression from those levels that Simon hasn't played for you to race

[Simon]

We can race if we accept all of the following:

• We have unequal pre-race knowledge. In the Vienna 2023 race, you solved levels that I didn't solve.  (I still have to document more from Vienna 2023 with text and photos.)
• I'll fast-forward more and explain less.
• I won't reshow solutions. Normally, after solving, I replay the solution in one continuous go and reexplain the core ideas. It's easier to understand the big picture from that than from watching the gory details during the preceding live solving.

For backroute testing, I don't know if the race will be better or worse than untimed play.

My hunch is that untimed play is better for overall playtesting. Still, I'm up for a race.

-- Simon

[Ramon]

Ahh, yeah I don't want to take away from the quality and content of your stream by doing this in a timed manner. I'd be up for playing the pack as well and would possibly be available at the time, however I don't have a proper Lix stream setup yet. I might just "tag along" through a couple of shorter streams in the next couple weeks and try not to spoil myself in your stream!

A race is also slightly less exciting online than locally.

[geoo]

Current plan is to have a short session tomorrow (Wednesday 7th), about 1 hour, and a longer one on Thursday 8th, also 17 UTC.

Ramond: Let us know if you're around! If you're streaming separately on some other day, let me know and I'll try to join as well.

[Simon]

Correct, I confirm that I will stream twice: Wed, 7th, 17:00 UTC and Thu, 8th, 17:00 UTC.

-- Simon

[Ramon]

I'm probably not going to stream Lix tomorrow, but I can give a heads up once I plan to stream the pack. Also don't want to keep hijacking this thread

[Simon]

Stream is over! See you tomorrow (Thu, Feb 8th) again at 17:00 UTC.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over.

-- Simon

[mobius]

will watch this recent one in the coming days. I was watching some of the multiplayer streams and it's made me want to play again. Perhaps I'll try to join next time.

https://clips.twitch.tv/InnocentMotionlessDunlinDatSheffy-TZDhVrM3Iu0VzqxG
(clip from one of the recent sessions)

[Simon]

mobius, thanks for clipping!

Next singleplayer stream is this Wednesday, February 14th, 17:00 UTC. Let's solve more of geoo's upcoming pack. geoo sent me backroute fixes, we'll test them, too.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over. We played geoo's new pack, third stream so far.

Recording will remain for 14 days at:
https://www.twitch.tv/simonnaar

-- Simon

[Simon]

Next stream: Tomorrow, Sat 24th, starting 17:00 UTC.

I'll playtest more singleplayer levels by geoo. This will be the 4th stream with geoo's pack.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Stream is over! Recording will remain for 14 days at: https://www.twitch.tv/simonnaar

-- Simon