Author Topic: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)  (Read 1882 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« on: August 09, 2020, 10:47:37 PM »
Ok, For anybody that has ever played Lemmings Reunion for Lemmini, It's now here For Superlemmini. Now one can play Lemmini's Reunion but now for
Superlemmini with untimed bombers(makes level a little easier). Also now with 2 choices for music. I have in the Levels folder two levelpack.ini's
currently set for neolemmix's but if you want to hear lemmini's music just rename levelpack.ini to something like levelpack(neolemmix music).ini and change the one I have in the levels folder. it says levelpack(lemmini music) to levelpack.ini.

also make sure (this is extremely important as other packs you have will be affected) to backup your styles folder to another name before extracting my upload. no need to backup your music folder because I just have 2 music folders just for the pack "reunion music lemmini" and reunion music neolemmix".
the corresponding levelpack.ini will reflect these folders.

Also most levels are lemmini's version which tend to be more difficult than neolemmix's. Also Lemmini and Superlemmini are based both on java so I wanted to keep the lemmini version. This also means these levels all have timers unlike neolemmix(easier)

The one thing I did do though is try to use Ichotolot's backroute fixes (like OWW, Steel, etc). The only ones I couldn't do are ones that have pickup skills in
neolemmix. But these backroute fixes are if the level is otherwise the same. Some lemmini levels were different (ie ultra-violence level 6 Tryhardlon)
so backroute fixes weren't used.

Also I've included replays to show that every level is solvable(2 levels I have 2 replays for Nightmare 12 Ways into Madness (lemmini solution and neolemmix's solution) but is still lemmini's version. Also Nightmare 25 (The Flameout). Icho's intended one and one shown to me by Kaywhyn.

Just extract this to Your Superlemmini main folder. consists of levels, styles, and music. again backup your styles folder first before extracting(very important).

So at last here it is: Now with untimed bombers and 2 choices for music(lemminis or neolemmix's). Enjoy


UPDATE: I am now using the Superlemmini mod feature to handle to Lemmings Reunion styles, so now longer need to backup your original styles folder.
UPDATE 2: I now changed level 02 09 Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home to match neolemmix new update (except it is 6 builders instead of 5 in neolemmix)


download from my dropbox
music: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1j2v6u0py14zcpo/AACoaaFJA6-42gbWr9TCKT-3a?dl=1
levels: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4of8fk3560leh3h/AABLW21EckzUdeR4WC5g9diea?dl=1
mods: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qpdr2l4lqz8fjlk/AADA7lwXEePGdR-Xy_3TMX4ra?dl=1
replays: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fio723dc2uabaif/AAB74o5iMlKzXvkZISNh2Z7Aa?dl=1
UPDATE: 1/1/2021 Updated my mods file link(to put the EPIC style in there since it was previously missing(for some reason). Also removed the unneeded styles for reunion
              as noted by WillLem(thank you).

Edit: sorry I posted this before adding my replays so went back to my dropbox and corrected.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 09:36:17 PM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2020, 12:30:43 AM »
Congratuatlions on finishing the conversion of Lemmings Reunion to Superlemmini. Though it was tough, you managed to do it. So here's a suggestion on the download, as it takes some time to wait for the DL to finish. Similar to how you sent me different files to download via PM, you could do the same here. The reason why it takes so long is because both the music and the styles tend to inflate the download size considerably (especially the music, and according to the zip/rar contents, they are almost 200 and 9 times bigger than the level pack itself, respectively, with the NL music being way bigger than the Lemmini one), therefore increasing the time to wait for the DL to finish. Thus, pack authors generally don't include the music and the styles together with the pack download. Instead, they usually provide multiple DL links, one link for the pack, another different link for the styles, and finally another link for the music. This should speed up the download considerably. Just a suggestion, though.

Glad to see that you found the replays I sent helpful for some of the levels. I definitely didn't expect problems for so many of the levels on Superlemmini, judging from the notes that you provided during the conversion process. I thought I even knew most or all of the little quirks, but apparently not. I was definitely not aware of bashers having trouble bashing on a gentle slope in Superlemmini, for example. Or any of the climber issues you found and we reported to Tsyu.

There are some assessments that I do disagree with, though, especially in regards to difficulty. For example, because you had access to a replay and simply copied most of it in your attempt to solve it, your difficulty assessment for Nightmare 29 is definitely skewed. Even Icho thinks the level is hard, and pretty much everyone who has attempted this level have said it's hard, and I agree with all of them. Once you do know the solution, then it doesn't seem as hard, but it doesn't really change the fact that it's a hard level overall. It's really difficult because of how there's so many possibilities to try out, and there's not really a way to know for sure if a certain way will work out without having played most of the level. Especially on first glance it would appear that you have plenty of extra skills but you really don't. Even then, one could kind of deduce that it's necessary to find ways to preserve the skills due to the training one builds up through the previous levels of the pack and how by this point one has been super familiar with the miner tricks due to them being used so much, for example. Once one does find what he/she thinks is the solution, the next is executing and setting it up. In other words, the level is really difficult because both finding a solution is hard AND executing it can be difficult due to getting the setups right. This is especially true with those who have never even seen a replay and are simply seeing and solving the level for the very first time without any aid whatsoever. Especially in Lemmini with the bombing timing, but I think I only used one or two bombers, one which was really difficult. If I remember correctly, Nightmare 29 took me a couple of hours to solve.

Then you said that Nightmare 30 was hard, and I completely agree there. It's hard mostly due to how there's multiple entrances to work with (8, if I'm not mistaken) and how to split the skills for the entrances correctly and efficiently. This level also took me a few hours, although I think it didn't take me anywhere near as long as the level before it.

Once again, congrats on finishing the conversion. Now we just need to see what Tsyu says about the bugs we reported, but that all depends on when he comes on and addresses them if he decides they are indeed things that need to be fixed. Until then, nothing you can really do.

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2020, 01:00:53 AM »
Thanks Kaywhyn I have 4 links now , 1 for Levels 1 for styles: 1 for music, and 1 for replays.

and yes level 29 is hard. but what I mean,  it's not hard to execute since I knew the replay. also because of the square blocks are easier to work with. This is what I meant.
 
and level 30 is harder to execute even when I had the replay
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 01:18:58 AM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2020, 01:30:34 AM »
Perfect, separating the DL links helped tremendously. Only the styles folder took a while, but there's a lot of them, so that was expected.

Quote
and yes level 29 is hard. but what I mean,  it's not hard to execute since I knew the replay. also because of the square blocks are easier to work with. This is what I meant.
 
and level 30 is harder to execute even when I had the replay

Smooth terrain does make it easier, but the whole point is that without a replay, these final two levels alone are even more difficult on top of already being hard themselves, both in terms of finding a solution (due to not knowing the solution ahead of time) and the execution (it's more due to getting the setups correctly). There is still some leeway, but getting the setups correctly can be very tricky. It doesn't help that you can't recover if the setup wasn't right, as there aren't really any extra skills that allow one to salvage the solution and continue. Just be glad there aren't any levels in the pack that require tricks with even harder setups and timing. For example, which destructive skills can cross one another (Pimolems and Sublems both have examples of levels with them).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 01:45:22 AM by kaywhyn »

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2020, 03:51:57 AM »
oh I also want to thank Ichotolot for not only supplying the levels and styles but also his lemmini replays which helped in many levels especially ones that were different than neolemmix. Also I want to thank him for his Youtube on these levels. I found these not only helping in solvimg levels but also I enjoyed info on the levels such as mentioning backroute fixes. So I tried to use these in Superlemmi's levels unless the levels were different or had pickup skills.
Also I want to thank Tsyu for Superlemmi's features over Lemmini's including allow more options for music(ie .ogg,mod,etc). Although there still some issues
such as the ,1 with sound files or climbers climbing 1 pixel ceilings, or climbing slopes and the basher issues thru mild slopes and the 3 builder one, although
maybe that one isn't an issue since he is trying to imitate Amiga.
And of course Kaywhyn for helping in some levels such as "The Flameout" which I did find easier than the builder hitting blocker and turning.
And most importantly I'm glad this project is finished. As there were times I spent hours on editing and solving levels especially the last 2 ranks.

« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 04:45:38 AM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2020, 04:20:16 AM »
Quote
And of course Kaywhyn for helping in some levels such as "The Flameout" which I did find easier than the builder hitting blocker and turning.
And most importantly I'm glad this project is finished. As there were times I spent hours on editing and solving levels especially the last 2 ranks.

You're welcome. It's important to note that when I first solved Nightmare 25 a few years back, I too used the solution of bouncing a builder in progress on a blocker. Then I found out that one could make it easier and simply interrupt a basher midstroke from a comment Icho made in a Youtube video that featured namida solving the level.

Really, I was more than happy to send you my/alternative solutions to some of the levels of the pack. I felt you would be interested in seeing other solutions of the same level, and indeed that is the case, as you have definitely expressed interest and appreciation of the replays I have sent for United. In this way, you can be the judge and decide oh, I like kaywhyn's solution better than Icho's or vice versa. Or depending on if other people have sent replays, you can compare mine with them as well. Once I'm done with United, I'll definitely be playing other packs, and you can be assured that I'll be posting in the level pack topics and then you can collect my replays for those too. Most of them are probably much easier than Icho's packs though, so you might be able to handle them.

Out of curiosity, have there been any custom level packs that you managed to beat? Or even any you have played a bit? I know you said that you done the original games, but here I'm asking about custom packs. You already know from my responses that I have completed so many custom packs, including Pimolems, Dovelems, and Reunion on Lemmini, as well as some slightly easier NL packs.

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2020, 04:39:54 AM »
I've tried a few levels in custom packs, but I'm a lousy puzzle solver. but I do have replays for many packs. The world tour pack Icho had some replays but he stopped. I think the last 2 ranks and 1/2 the rank before he stopped. But Icho's intro pack I started, those ones maybe I can handle. And as far as Superlemmini replays I have the original ones. I just need to continue gathering the ohono's holidays and others. Although I do have all the replays for Dovelems and the Genesis ones. I can't even image playing united. That one you have to have extreme patience and skill abilities.
I try to gather replays for other custom packs, like lemmings destination or mitagation I have all the replays. also Icho changed 2 bonus levels in his united
pack but I still have those 2 levels and replays. I don't know if your'e going to play the lost ones but I have those 2 levels and replays, so if you ever want to try his subtracted ones, let me know.

Also when I said in my conversion some of the levels weren't hard, that's only because I had or saw replays. If I didn't have these, even Reunion would be hard for me

also I want to continue with my neolemmix Angry lemmings as i'm up to taxing 25. I just haven't had the time to do as Reunion's conversion took alot of
my time. Remember Namida couldn't solve that Feast of a level one that you did. some of the levels I have are nice.


Also you should look at the replays that I have for reunion , especially Nightmare 29 and 30. Also I like neolemmix music for this better than lemmini's for level 29. I think it's the tetris music.
and now looking back at reunion i'm kind of surprised I was able to solve using replays because you still have to do the level yourself with so many of Icho's tricks
« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 05:39:42 AM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2020, 08:27:04 AM »
Quote
I've tried a few levels in custom packs, But Icho's intro pack I started, those ones maybe I can handle. And as far as Superlemmini replays I have the original ones. I just need to continue gathering the ohono's holidays and others.

Sounds like you mostly stuck to custom packs that are closer in difficulty to the original games. That's perfectly fine, as those are closer to your skill level. Of course, you're certainly more than welcome to take on the hard custom packs if you want, but you don't have to. As for Icho's NL tutorial pack, I'm quite certain that you'll be able to get through it. You shouldn't have any problems. The only very tricky ones I remember were near the very end of the last few ranks, especially the ones that don't have any pre-text. In any case, I plan to send him my replays for that pack once I'm done with United, so be on the lookout for my post and you can collect my replays. At the same time, I do need to resolve some levels due to an update he released sometime ago. I think there's also a new rank, but I don't remember. Before the update, I had completed the pack, but since the update I haven't done any resolving of levels that have changed, so I'll need to go back and do that. Once I do that, then I'll send replays.

Quote

also Icho changed 2 bonus levels in his united
pack but I still have those 2 levels and replays. I don't know if your'e going to play the lost ones but I have those 2 levels and replays, so if you ever want to try his subtracted ones, let me know.

It's fine. I think they're all like collab levels or something like that and are like design contest levels, so I will probably likely find them lurking around somewhere on the level design board.

Quote
Also when I said in my conversion some of the levels weren't hard, that's only because I had or saw replays. If I didn't have these, even Reunion would be hard for me

Yes, we have established that without replays the conversion project would had taken even longer, especially the last 2 ranks. You wouldn't be anywhere near done with the project. Probably would had taken at least another two months or so. Like United, Reunion isn't for the faint of heart either, but compared to United it's still far easier, particularly since it only uses the classic 8 skills. The pack has a really nice difficulty curve throughout, starting off easy and then ramps up the difficulty steadily. I definitely agree with others that the last few levels of the first rank had a huge jump in difficulty, especially the rank finisher. That one was a major roadblock for so many, myself included.

What I suspect went on is that while watching the replays you had a lot of "I never would had come up with that on my own when solving the levels." If that was the case, a lot of the levels would had had you stumped.

Quote
Also you should look at the replays that I have for reunion , especially Nightmare 29 and 30. Also I like neolemmix music for this better than lemmini's for level 29. I think it's the tetris music.
and now looking back at reunion i'm kind of surprised I was able to solve using replays because you still have to do the level yourself with so many of Icho's tricks

The fact that you even was able to solve Nightmare 29 is amazing in itself. Without a replay, you might not had been able to. I could be wrong here, and I want to say that I am, since I feel you're more than capable of level solving than you're giving yourself credit for. As for me, I remember feeling very relieved and super satisfied that I was able to solve the level and get through it. Especially on Lemmini, it's a nightmare (no pun intended) to pull off, especially with timed bombers. I don't mind them, though. In the same way I don't mind time limits either.

That reminds me. I think I promised you a replay for Nightmare 30 that involves me glitching the level on Lemmini. If you want I can still send it to you. Not helpful for Superlemmini/NL's versions, since the glitch doesn't even work and the latest Lemmini version doesn't even closely resemble the updated versions on the other engines since it's missing so much steel and the OWW. Just a replay I think would be interesting for you since it offers another way of solving the final level, but only in Lemmini and the way the skill amounts are given. 

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2020, 05:03:51 AM »
Oh one last thing. I forgot to save Kaywhyn's version of Drunk Lemmings on their way Home. So I went back and played this level over to do. Didn't need help on remembering the solution on this one. So I did it by myself. This time I saved it, as the replay I had was Icho's intended one. so if anybody wants this replay here it is. just put into into the HeyNotTooRough folder. This replay is already numbered as 09 Drunk Lemmings on their way Home. also this replay isn't in my entire replay set from dropbox. I didn't feel like creating a new link. I just kept it seperate in my dropbox.

And thanks again Kaywhyn for this alternate solution.

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2020, 05:58:50 AM »
Thanks again for the acknowledgement and credit. Now it's my turn to return the favor. Here's my replay for Nightmare 30. Again, not helpful for fixing the level, since the glitch doesn't work in Superlemmini, just an interesting solution where I use a glitch to solve it. Only works in the unpatched Lemmini version.

edit: Now that you have my replay, since it's not relevant for this topic, I have removed the file. Enjoy.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 06:07:58 AM by kaywhyn »

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2020, 06:13:04 AM »
yes, I see that glitch. when I converted Dodochacalo's Dodopack Level 9 Secret Laboratory. to neolemmix I had to recreate the solution. Yes Dodochacalo uses that glitch in Lemmini. You even saved 1 more lemming too.

How did you manage to find the solution using the glitch.

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2020, 06:19:41 AM »
Before I played Reunion, I played through Pimolems and Dodochocalo's packs on Lemmini. There were levels in each one that had the climber glitch, so I thought about using it on Nightmare 30 after having played the level for a while. Since you managed to convert all of Dodochocalo's packs, I'm guessing you're going to convert Pimolems to Superlemmini next? Be aware that many of the levels use glitches that are exclusive to Lemmini. The nice thing, though, is that Pieuw included a very detailed readme that details which levels use glitches. At the same time, I would advise taking a break since you just recently finished converting Reunion.

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2020, 06:35:09 AM »
yes I was thinking about it, before I decided on doing Reunion for Superlemmini, because Icho has Pimolems in neolemmix. and I'm a big fan of him, because he is german. That's 1 reason I did Dovelems. So I almost  was going to do Pimolems for Superlemmini. But now you say there's glitch's, I'm not even sure how to approach that then.

Update yes he has 6 levels with glitchs 2 in stormy, 3 in pickaxe and 1 in one
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 06:57:56 AM by ericderkovits »

Online kaywhyn

  • Posts: 903
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2020, 08:06:36 AM »
Yea, I'm not sure what should be done about those. Both Icho and Pieuw have solutions to the Pimolems levels on Youtube, btw. Just search Pimolems. Both for Lemmini.

Online ericderkovits

  • Posts: 629
    • View Profile
Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2020, 09:17:44 AM »
Just to let you know I do have Pimolems converted already(even played the 1st level in calm and saved it) just not sure what i can do in the editor. example I saw icho's stormy 20 (neolemmix) where he just put a lemming on top of pole where the climber glitch lemming ends up. but in the editor I opened stormy 20 I don't see where in the editor you can place a
lemming. if I can somehow use neolemmix version in the editor then I will do this project. also would have to check out the other glitchy levels and see what
Icho did in neolemmix where I could do it in the editor. And if someway I can recreate those 6 glitchy levels then I could do this.

EDIT: let me work on the glitchy levels to come up with ways to recreate solutions. if I can do these 6 then I'll do this project.
EDiT2: Stormy 17 just extended level horizontally and added small skinny column on right side of screen so climber will climb there and float back down.
EDIT3: ok, I got a recreation for stormy 20 "Let them eat cake". Slightly tinkered with terrain, added 1 builder and 1 blocker

and yes I see the solutions on youtube (for lemmini). that's not really the issue.


UPDATE: Just as a sidenote: I wanted to fix NotTooRought level 9 Drunk Lemmings on the way Home to match the latest one Icho patched. But in Supperlemmini there is no way to reduce the number of builders due
to the climber bug, so I'll leave the level as is(unless of course Tsyu manages to fix these climber issues).





« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 01:25:17 AM by ericderkovits »