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Other Lemmings Projects => Lemmini => Topic started by: ericderkovits on August 09, 2020, 10:47:37 PM

Title: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 09, 2020, 10:47:37 PM

Ok, For anybody that has ever played Lemmings Reunion for Lemmini, It's now here For Superlemmini. Now one can play Lemmini's Reunion but now for
Superlemmini with untimed bombers(makes level a little easier). Also now with 2 choices for music. I have in the Levels folder two levelpack.ini's
currently set for neolemmix's but if you want to hear lemmini's music just rename levelpack.ini to something like levelpack(neolemmix music).ini and change the one I have in the levels folder. it says levelpack(lemmini music) to levelpack.ini.

also make sure (this is extremely important as other packs you have will be affected) to backup your styles folder to another name before extracting my upload. no need to backup your music folder because I just have 2 music folders just for the pack "reunion music lemmini" and reunion music neolemmix".
the corresponding levelpack.ini will reflect these folders.

Also most levels are lemmini's version which tend to be more difficult than neolemmix's. Also Lemmini and Superlemmini are based both on java so I wanted to keep the lemmini version. This also means these levels all have timers unlike neolemmix(easier)

The one thing I did do though is try to use Ichotolot's backroute fixes (like OWW, Steel, etc). The only ones I couldn't do are ones that have pickup skills in
neolemmix. But these backroute fixes are if the level is otherwise the same. Some lemmini levels were different (ie ultra-violence level 6 Tryhardlon)
so backroute fixes weren't used.

Also I've included replays to show that every level is solvable(2 levels I have 2 replays for Nightmare 12 Ways into Madness (lemmini solution and neolemmix's solution) but is still lemmini's version. Also Nightmare 25 (The Flameout). Icho's intended one and one shown to me by Kaywhyn.

Just extract this to Your Superlemmini main folder. consists of levels, styles, and music. again backup your styles folder first before extracting(very important).

So at last here it is: Now with untimed bombers and 2 choices for music(lemminis or neolemmix's). Enjoy


UPDATE: I am now using the Superlemmini mod feature to handle to Lemmings Reunion styles, so now longer need to backup your original styles folder.
UPDATE 2: I now changed level 02 09 Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home to match neolemmix new update (except it is 6 builders instead of 5 in neolemmix)


download from my dropbox
music: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1j2v6u0py14zcpo/AACoaaFJA6-42gbWr9TCKT-3a?dl=1
levels: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/iioj3t7lgkuqaq3/AAA7VSoqLVfPXqHUZITRNaf7a?dl=1
mods: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qpdr2l4lqz8fjlk/AADA7lwXEePGdR-Xy_3TMX4ra?dl=1
replays: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pzu79onbgxft1qe/AADJEoHXHeejX0xg7rcdJ-dba?dl=1
UPDATE: 1/1/2021 Updated my mods file link(to put the EPIC style in there since it was previously missing(for some reason). Also removed the unneeded styles for reunion
              as noted by WillLem(thank you).

Edit: sorry I posted this before adding my replays so went back to my dropbox and corrected.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 10, 2020, 12:30:43 AM

Congratuatlions on finishing the conversion of Lemmings Reunion to Superlemmini. Though it was tough, you managed to do it. So here's a suggestion on the download, as it takes some time to wait for the DL to finish. Similar to how you sent me different files to download via PM, you could do the same here. The reason why it takes so long is because both the music and the styles tend to inflate the download size considerably (especially the music, and according to the zip/rar contents, they are almost 200 and 9 times bigger than the level pack itself, respectively, with the NL music being way bigger than the Lemmini one), therefore increasing the time to wait for the DL to finish. Thus, pack authors generally don't include the music and the styles together with the pack download. Instead, they usually provide multiple DL links, one link for the pack, another different link for the styles, and finally another link for the music. This should speed up the download considerably. Just a suggestion, though.

Glad to see that you found the replays I sent helpful for some of the levels. I definitely didn't expect problems for so many of the levels on Superlemmini, judging from the notes that you provided during the conversion process. I thought I even knew most or all of the little quirks, but apparently not. I was definitely not aware of bashers having trouble bashing on a gentle slope in Superlemmini, for example. Or any of the climber issues you found and we reported to Tsyu.

There are some assessments that I do disagree with, though, especially in regards to difficulty. For example, because you had access to a replay and simply copied most of it in your attempt to solve it, your difficulty assessment for Nightmare 29 is definitely skewed. Even Icho thinks the level is hard, and pretty much everyone who has attempted this level have said it's hard, and I agree with all of them. Once you do know the solution, then it doesn't seem as hard, but it doesn't really change the fact that it's a hard level overall. It's really difficult because of how there's so many possibilities to try out, and there's not really a way to know for sure if a certain way will work out without having played most of the level. Especially on first glance it would appear that you have plenty of extra skills but you really don't. Even then, one could kind of deduce that it's necessary to find ways to preserve the skills due to the training one builds up through the previous levels of the pack and how by this point one has been super familiar with the miner tricks due to them being used so much, for example. Once one does find what he/she thinks is the solution, the next is executing and setting it up. In other words, the level is really difficult because both finding a solution is hard AND executing it can be difficult due to getting the setups right. This is especially true with those who have never even seen a replay and are simply seeing and solving the level for the very first time without any aid whatsoever. Especially in Lemmini with the bombing timing, but I think I only used one or two bombers, one which was really difficult. If I remember correctly, Nightmare 29 took me a couple of hours to solve.

Then you said that Nightmare 30 was hard, and I completely agree there. It's hard mostly due to how there's multiple entrances to work with (8, if I'm not mistaken) and how to split the skills for the entrances correctly and efficiently. This level also took me a few hours, although I think it didn't take me anywhere near as long as the level before it.

Once again, congrats on finishing the conversion. Now we just need to see what Tsyu says about the bugs we reported, but that all depends on when he comes on and addresses them if he decides they are indeed things that need to be fixed. Until then, nothing you can really do.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 10, 2020, 01:00:53 AM

Thanks Kaywhyn I have 4 links now , 1 for Levels 1 for styles: 1 for music, and 1 for replays.

and yes level 29 is hard. but what I mean,  it's not hard to execute since I knew the replay. also because of the square blocks are easier to work with. This is what I meant.
 
and level 30 is harder to execute even when I had the replay

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 10, 2020, 01:30:34 AM

Perfect, separating the DL links helped tremendously. Only the styles folder took a while, but there's a lot of them, so that was expected.

Quote

and yes level 29 is hard. but what I mean,  it's not hard to execute since I knew the replay. also because of the square blocks are easier to work with. This is what I meant.
 
and level 30 is harder to execute even when I had the replay

Smooth terrain does make it easier, but the whole point is that without a replay, these final two levels alone are even more difficult on top of already being hard themselves, both in terms of finding a solution (due to not knowing the solution ahead of time) and the execution (it's more due to getting the setups correctly). There is still some leeway, but getting the setups correctly can be very tricky. It doesn't help that you can't recover if the setup wasn't right, as there aren't really any extra skills that allow one to salvage the solution and continue. Just be glad there aren't any levels in the pack that require tricks with even harder setups and timing. For example, which destructive skills can cross one another (Pimolems and Sublems both have examples of levels with them).

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 10, 2020, 03:51:57 AM

oh I also want to thank Ichotolot for not only supplying the levels and styles but also his lemmini replays which helped in many levels especially ones that were different than neolemmix. Also I want to thank him for his Youtube on these levels. I found these not only helping in solvimg levels but also I enjoyed info on the levels such as mentioning backroute fixes. So I tried to use these in Superlemmi's levels unless the levels were different or had pickup skills.
Also I want to thank Tsyu for Superlemmi's features over Lemmini's including allow more options for music(ie .ogg,mod,etc). Although there still some issues
such as the ,1 with sound files or climbers climbing 1 pixel ceilings, or climbing slopes and the basher issues thru mild slopes and the 3 builder one, although
maybe that one isn't an issue since he is trying to imitate Amiga.
And of course Kaywhyn for helping in some levels such as "The Flameout" which I did find easier than the builder hitting blocker and turning.
And most importantly I'm glad this project is finished. As there were times I spent hours on editing and solving levels especially the last 2 ranks.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 10, 2020, 04:20:16 AM

Quote

And of course Kaywhyn for helping in some levels such as "The Flameout" which I did find easier than the builder hitting blocker and turning.
And most importantly I'm glad this project is finished. As there were times I spent hours on editing and solving levels especially the last 2 ranks.

You're welcome. It's important to note that when I first solved Nightmare 25 a few years back, I too used the solution of bouncing a builder in progress on a blocker. Then I found out that one could make it easier and simply interrupt a basher midstroke from a comment Icho made in a Youtube video that featured namida solving the level.

Really, I was more than happy to send you my/alternative solutions to some of the levels of the pack. I felt you would be interested in seeing other solutions of the same level, and indeed that is the case, as you have definitely expressed interest and appreciation of the replays I have sent for United. In this way, you can be the judge and decide oh, I like kaywhyn's solution better than Icho's or vice versa. Or depending on if other people have sent replays, you can compare mine with them as well. Once I'm done with United, I'll definitely be playing other packs, and you can be assured that I'll be posting in the level pack topics and then you can collect my replays for those too. Most of them are probably much easier than Icho's packs though, so you might be able to handle them.

Out of curiosity, have there been any custom level packs that you managed to beat? Or even any you have played a bit? I know you said that you done the original games, but here I'm asking about custom packs. You already know from my responses that I have completed so many custom packs, including Pimolems, Dovelems, and Reunion on Lemmini, as well as some slightly easier NL packs.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 10, 2020, 04:39:54 AM

I've tried a few levels in custom packs, but I'm a lousy puzzle solver. but I do have replays for many packs. The world tour pack Icho had some replays but he stopped. I think the last 2 ranks and 1/2 the rank before he stopped. But Icho's intro pack I started, those ones maybe I can handle. And as far as Superlemmini replays I have the original ones. I just need to continue gathering the ohono's holidays and others. Although I do have all the replays for Dovelems and the Genesis ones. I can't even image playing united. That one you have to have extreme patience and skill abilities.
I try to gather replays for other custom packs, like lemmings destination or mitagation I have all the replays. also Icho changed 2 bonus levels in his united
pack but I still have those 2 levels and replays. I don't know if your'e going to play the lost ones but I have those 2 levels and replays, so if you ever want to try his subtracted ones, let me know.

Also when I said in my conversion some of the levels weren't hard, that's only because I had or saw replays. If I didn't have these, even Reunion would be hard for me

also I want to continue with my neolemmix Angry lemmings as i'm up to taxing 25. I just haven't had the time to do as Reunion's conversion took alot of
my time. Remember Namida couldn't solve that Feast of a level one that you did. some of the levels I have are nice.


Also you should look at the replays that I have for reunion , especially Nightmare 29 and 30. Also I like neolemmix music for this better than lemmini's for level 29. I think it's the tetris music.
and now looking back at reunion i'm kind of surprised I was able to solve using replays because you still have to do the level yourself with so many of Icho's tricks

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 10, 2020, 08:27:04 AM

Quote

I've tried a few levels in custom packs, But Icho's intro pack I started, those ones maybe I can handle. And as far as Superlemmini replays I have the original ones. I just need to continue gathering the ohono's holidays and others.

Sounds like you mostly stuck to custom packs that are closer in difficulty to the original games. That's perfectly fine, as those are closer to your skill level. Of course, you're certainly more than welcome to take on the hard custom packs if you want, but you don't have to. As for Icho's NL tutorial pack, I'm quite certain that you'll be able to get through it. You shouldn't have any problems. The only very tricky ones I remember were near the very end of the last few ranks, especially the ones that don't have any pre-text. In any case, I plan to send him my replays for that pack once I'm done with United, so be on the lookout for my post and you can collect my replays. At the same time, I do need to resolve some levels due to an update he released sometime ago. I think there's also a new rank, but I don't remember. Before the update, I had completed the pack, but since the update I haven't done any resolving of levels that have changed, so I'll need to go back and do that. Once I do that, then I'll send replays.

Quote

also Icho changed 2 bonus levels in his united
pack but I still have those 2 levels and replays. I don't know if your'e going to play the lost ones but I have those 2 levels and replays, so if you ever want to try his subtracted ones, let me know.

It's fine. I think they're all like collab levels or something like that and are like design contest levels, so I will probably likely find them lurking around somewhere on the level design board.

Quote

Also when I said in my conversion some of the levels weren't hard, that's only because I had or saw replays. If I didn't have these, even Reunion would be hard for me

Yes, we have established that without replays the conversion project would had taken even longer, especially the last 2 ranks. You wouldn't be anywhere near done with the project. Probably would had taken at least another two months or so. Like United, Reunion isn't for the faint of heart either, but compared to United it's still far easier, particularly since it only uses the classic 8 skills. The pack has a really nice difficulty curve throughout, starting off easy and then ramps up the difficulty steadily. I definitely agree with others that the last few levels of the first rank had a huge jump in difficulty, especially the rank finisher. That one was a major roadblock for so many, myself included.

What I suspect went on is that while watching the replays you had a lot of "I never would had come up with that on my own when solving the levels." If that was the case, a lot of the levels would had had you stumped.

Quote

Also you should look at the replays that I have for reunion , especially Nightmare 29 and 30. Also I like neolemmix music for this better than lemmini's for level 29. I think it's the tetris music.
and now looking back at reunion i'm kind of surprised I was able to solve using replays because you still have to do the level yourself with so many of Icho's tricks

The fact that you even was able to solve Nightmare 29 is amazing in itself. Without a replay, you might not had been able to. I could be wrong here, and I want to say that I am, since I feel you're more than capable of level solving than you're giving yourself credit for. As for me, I remember feeling very relieved and super satisfied that I was able to solve the level and get through it. Especially on Lemmini, it's a nightmare (no pun intended) to pull off, especially with timed bombers. I don't mind them, though. In the same way I don't mind time limits either.

That reminds me. I think I promised you a replay for Nightmare 30 that involves me glitching the level on Lemmini. If you want I can still send it to you. Not helpful for Superlemmini/NL's versions, since the glitch doesn't even work and the latest Lemmini version doesn't even closely resemble the updated versions on the other engines since it's missing so much steel and the OWW. Just a replay I think would be interesting for you since it offers another way of solving the final level, but only in Lemmini and the way the skill amounts are given. 

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 11, 2020, 05:03:51 AM

Oh one last thing. I forgot to save Kaywhyn's version of Drunk Lemmings on their way Home. So I went back and played this level over to do. Didn't need help on remembering the solution on this one. So I did it by myself. This time I saved it, as the replay I had was Icho's intended one. so if anybody wants this replay here it is. just put into into the HeyNotTooRough folder. This replay is already numbered as 09 Drunk Lemmings on their way Home. also this replay isn't in my entire replay set from dropbox. I didn't feel like creating a new link. I just kept it seperate in my dropbox.

And thanks again Kaywhyn for this alternate solution.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 11, 2020, 05:58:50 AM

Thanks again for the acknowledgement and credit. Now it's my turn to return the favor. Here's my replay for Nightmare 30. Again, not helpful for fixing the level, since the glitch doesn't work in Superlemmini, just an interesting solution where I use a glitch to solve it. Only works in the unpatched Lemmini version.

edit: Now that you have my replay, since it's not relevant for this topic, I have removed the file. Enjoy.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 11, 2020, 06:13:04 AM

yes, I see that glitch. when I converted Dodochacalo's Dodopack Level 9 Secret Laboratory. to neolemmix I had to recreate the solution. Yes Dodochacalo uses that glitch in Lemmini. You even saved 1 more lemming too.

How did you manage to find the solution using the glitch.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 11, 2020, 06:19:41 AM

Before I played Reunion, I played through Pimolems and Dodochocalo's packs on Lemmini. There were levels in each one that had the climber glitch, so I thought about using it on Nightmare 30 after having played the level for a while. Since you managed to convert all of Dodochocalo's packs, I'm guessing you're going to convert Pimolems to Superlemmini next? Be aware that many of the levels use glitches that are exclusive to Lemmini. The nice thing, though, is that Pieuw included a very detailed readme that details which levels use glitches. At the same time, I would advise taking a break since you just recently finished converting Reunion.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 11, 2020, 06:35:09 AM

yes I was thinking about it, before I decided on doing Reunion for Superlemmini, because Icho has Pimolems in neolemmix. and I'm a big fan of him, because he is german. That's 1 reason I did Dovelems. So I almost  was going to do Pimolems for Superlemmini. But now you say there's glitch's, I'm not even sure how to approach that then.

Update yes he has 6 levels with glitchs 2 in stormy, 3 in pickaxe and 1 in one

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 11, 2020, 08:06:36 AM

Yea, I'm not sure what should be done about those. Both Icho and Pieuw have solutions to the Pimolems levels on Youtube, btw. Just search Pimolems. Both for Lemmini.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 11, 2020, 09:17:44 AM

Just to let you know I do have Pimolems converted already(even played the 1st level in calm and saved it) just not sure what i can do in the editor. example I saw icho's stormy 20 (neolemmix) where he just put a lemming on top of pole where the climber glitch lemming ends up. but in the editor I opened stormy 20 I don't see where in the editor you can place a
lemming. if I can somehow use neolemmix version in the editor then I will do this project. also would have to check out the other glitchy levels and see what
Icho did in neolemmix where I could do it in the editor. And if someway I can recreate those 6 glitchy levels then I could do this.

EDIT: let me work on the glitchy levels to come up with ways to recreate solutions. if I can do these 6 then I'll do this project.
EDiT2: Stormy 17 just extended level horizontally and added small skinny column on right side of screen so climber will climb there and float back down.
EDIT3: ok, I got a recreation for stormy 20 "Let them eat cake". Slightly tinkered with terrain, added 1 builder and 1 blocker

and yes I see the solutions on youtube (for lemmini). that's not really the issue.


UPDATE: Just as a sidenote: I wanted to fix NotTooRought level 9 Drunk Lemmings on the way Home to match the latest one Icho patched. But in Supperlemmini there is no way to reduce the number of builders due
to the climber bug, so I'll leave the level as is(unless of course Tsyu manages to fix these climber issues).

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 07:17:48 PM

Ok, another issue that showed up for me, but for the Reunion pack. In Nightmare 9, the very first sucker trap the lemmings encounter when dropping down into the main area sucks them up, which I'm pretty sure is not supposed to happen. Thus, your replay crashes after the level plays out for a few seconds. Not sure if it's my end, but do you think you can check to see if your Nightmare 9 replay works?

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 07:55:22 PM

ok yes, but that's because your styles folder is set to the normal one, because you tested original game "You need bashers this time". so it crashes. When I saw this post I already knew the answer to your problem.
as I said keep 2 separate folders for the styles
Here is the solution to the problem

1) Download my normal styles from the My superlemmini packs post and name it styles-normal
2) Download Icho's reunion styles you can download from my dropbox. name it styles-for lemmings reunion only.
3) when playing a normal pack copy the styles-normal folder and name it styles
4) when you decide to play reunion delete the styles folder and copy the folder styles-for lemmings reunion only and name it styles.
5) and when going back to normal game- delete styles folder and copy styles-normal and name it styles.

This way you will never have a problem.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 08:25:06 PM

I did exactly what you wrote and the trap still sucks them up. Also, the sucker traps at the bottom don't work. I wonder if there's something wrong with the bubbles style.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 09:01:04 PM

No there is nothing wrong with the bubble style, this was actually my fault. Sorry about that, I corrected this level. also I tested every sucker even ones you never go by, by putting
hatches near them, saving the .ini and playing the level. all the traps work now.

here is the new 509.ini
just put it into your reunion levels folder.

Note: also I updated it in my dropbox. so now if you download it from my dropbox, the level should be corrected.

And thanks kaywhyn, if you find anything else that I missed(especially traps) just let me know and I will correct. It's just this level had so many traps to test.
Also this was in the Nightmare rank. so I was kinda wanting to get the project done. I guess I should have taken more time with this level.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 09:09:41 PM

Nope, still doesn't work as intended. The first trap the lemmings encounter just before dropping down into the main area still suck them up. The traps at the bottom that you need to build over also don't work either. So, the new version you attached has the same thing. =( trying to download the styles from the OP, but it downloads the level pack instead.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 09:13:37 PM

what doesn't work for you?

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 09:23:06 PM

ok your right downloading the styles downloaded the pack instead. sorry again. I fixed. so now if you download the styles from the link it will be the styles.
I tested this for the other links too. all the links now download the right thing.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 09:28:35 PM

ok mine works for the level, try downloading the styles from the new link and redo the Nightmare level 9. make sure the styles folder you're using is the Reunion one too.
Because if you use the normal one it will not work.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 09:28:54 PM

Ok so it might just be my end, but in any case I tried your instructions on the renaming the styles folder again and still the same thing happens with the new ini file. The first sucker trap the lemmings encounter before dropping into the main area still suck them up. In addition, the traps at the bottom you need to build over don't work. So, it's the same problems as last time.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 09:33:49 PM

ok try downloading the whole levels pack, see if that works. maybe it's because just sending the 509.ini by itself doesn't work.

also  after downloading the reunion styles, rename your styles-folder to something else and use the downloaded one and name it styles.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 09:38:37 PM

Tried all your suggestions and same thing. Ugh! Do you think it's something I need to change in the ini file for either the level or the style ini? This level hates me or something lol.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 09:45:34 PM

here download this. before extracting rename your styles folder to something else.
 
This is the exact copy of my styles folder and lemmings reunion pack
also this is the reunion styles but I just named it styles to see if your Nightmare 9 works

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 10:14:26 PM

and if the above doesn't work, try opening up the new 509.ini i uploaded. Then in the 1.43n-c editor I P.M.d you, then hit SAVE AS and look for the lemmings reunion folder and hit save.
see if this works.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 10:43:07 PM

ok if you get the level 509.ini opened in the editor. here is the level data for each trap
just go to dropdown menu "view" and click on inspector window.
Now just click on a trap. it will show green borders for the object(these sucker traps object numbers are 9 and just move the trap to the positions listed below

Trap 1 left of exit on block there.
Left 967, Top 143

Trap 2 slight above and to the right of the exit
Left 1174, Top 92

Trap 3 just to the right and above Trap 2
Left 1247, Top 28

Trap 4 on bottom floor below left bubbles right of hatch
Left 1334, Top 219

Trap 5 right there left of hatch
Left 1467, Top 27

Trap 6 next to 3 vertical steel bars,right of middle one
Left 1542, Top 157

Trap 7 just below leftmost horizontal steel block
Left 1546, Top 219

Now the 3 in a row left of where a digger digs

left one
Left 1640, Top 99

middle one
Left 1658, Top 99

right one
Left 1675, Top 99

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 10:52:21 PM

Finally! Nightmare 9 now works as intended. Traps at the bottom work, and the first trap the crowd encounters doesn't suck them up so that they all drop to the main area. All I did was download your styles a few posts above. I didn't have to do anything else. You have made me one happy person. The only other issue was the Sega levels loaded but the levels appeared all messed up. I managed to fix that by simply removing the Sega style folder and copying over another Sega styles folder I had that has way fewer files (121 vs 245 before). Perhaps if you have time you can load the Sega levels and see if they're also messed up. If so, I can send you my Sega style folder.

Also, for Fun 5 I managed to fix that even with the Reunion styles folder in my Superlemmini directory. I managed to compare the crystal ini file in the Reunion one with the crystal ini file of the normal styles folder, and it turns out a few lines were missing from the Reunion ini file. All I did was backup the crystal ini file in Reunion, delete all the lines in the ini file, and then copy everything from the crystal ini of the normal styles and paste it in the crystal ini file of the Reunion one. Then I tested the level again and now the lemmings can exit.

I compared the brick ini files and same thing: some lines are missing in the Reunion brick ini, so I did the same thing. Before that, in Wicked 1 the lemmings wouldn't get killed by the stomper trap, but once I copied over the ini file in the normal brick style, they now get properly killed. So, that probably means this needs to be done with all of the normal styles, meaning just the original lemmings and ONML styles. Easy fix, just annoying to do. Perhaps once I do that I can send all of the style ini's to you.

Once again, thanks for the help with Nightmare 9.

edit: actually, I'm a dumb dumb. Can just simply copy and paste the ini file rather than open the ini files and select all the lines and copy/paste in notepad.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 11:03:37 PM

no all my sega packs work. As long as I uses styles-normal for everything but reunion they work.
I just have 2 folders named one for styles-normal and styles-lemmings reunion only.

what your doing is trying to fix normal levels that will work within reunions styles and visa versa. I was doing this at the beginning too, since reunions styles were
messing up my other packs. But I found out it was too much work. It's just easier to do as having two separate style folders and name the one you want to play as styles.

Edit: both styles-normal and styles-lemmings reunion both have sega styles in them, but they are not interchangable. So i'm not bothering to merge them

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 18, 2020, 11:07:21 PM

That's why I still have the normal styles as backup just in case. I'll definitely report back if there are any other issues, but for now everything seems fine.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 23, 2020, 09:20:02 PM

I just noticed Reunion's Lemmini Solution compared to Neolemmix's solution for HurtMePlenty's 21 Field trip is different. Neolemmix's solution has a climber,floater, and digger left in Superlemmini.
(I didn't change it though because I want to keep the Lemmini version). It's just now when you do this level (in Superlemmini) using Neolemmix's solution, you will not use all skills. Also the replay I had was actually neolemmix's. But when I saw Icho's Lemmini replay he PM'd me, it was different, because it uses the extra climber, floater, and digger. So now I went back and solved using the Lemmini version to collect that replay. So now I have 2 replays for 21 Field Trip. Also actually in neolemmix's level for 21 Field Trip, he did subtract 1 climber, floater, and digger.

For anybody who wants the Lemmini version solution here it is.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 23, 2020, 09:59:59 PM

Keep in mind that Lemmini's version is unpatched, i.e, not as much steel in the starting area and no steel where a climber needs to turn around and dig in the basher tunnel. Even in the unpatched Lemmini version, NL's solution should still work. By sending 2 athletes to the bottom instead of 3, I imagine the time would either be about the same or even a bit tighter, but as long as you release the blockers early enough it should still be doable. In other words, a climber, floater, and digger leftover is simply a variation of the intended solution with not as much multitasking. I don't recall if I sent 2 or 3 athletes when I first played the Lemmini version back then, but it really doesn't matter which solution you use.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 23, 2020, 10:12:49 PM

yes, I noticed their is not as much steel in lemmini's version at the beginning and no steel where the lemming needs to turn around in bashers tunnel. But I made this adjustment for this in Superlemmini. My .ini file for this level has less space at beginning(more steel) and does have steel where the basher bashes where the other lemming needs to turn around.
 
In other words, I patched it in My Superlemmini to match neolemmix's patched version. But both neolemmix and lemmini's solutions still work in the patched version. Thus I have 2 replays
in my Superlemmini's patched version.

yes, your'e right in Lemmini's version, you send 3 athletes at start instead of 2 thus using all skills.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on August 23, 2020, 10:29:11 PM

Yea, it seems the long walk around is intended in the level, which is why the steel is there where the basher tunnel is in the middle (block a backroute according to Icho). Not to mention that as you have seen, the level was just a huge problem to edit in Superlemmini due to other unexpected problems, like a climber climbing out to the left at the bottom when it's not supposed to, climbing over a 1 pixel ceiling in the basher tunnel and so had to extend the terrain vertically, and adding more terrain so that a basher can bash the OWW because it can't bash very gentle slopes. Of course, in other custom packs designed for Superlemmini, these issues weren't present, and so I had no idea of knowing these would cause problems on plenty of Reunion levels that you converted. Good thing you're doing these conversion projects to Superlemmini so that some of the quirks of the engine can be discovered and be reported to Tsyu. Still hoping he comes on soon, but let's not get our hopes up for that. In the meantime, you just do whatever it takes to get the level working in the engine. Even Icho said in the OP of his conversion of Dovelems and Pimolems that he "tried to get as close to the original as possible, although some had to be changed in order to work with NL mechanics," such as the fake steel levels being completely reworked so that they have visible terrain mixed in with the steel, making them not blind and guess the path type of levels. Thus, if levels need to be changed in some way so that it's still possible in a particular engine, at the cost of looking nice or the elimination of central tricks intended for the level or anything really, so be it.

Glad to see you're rechecking the levels of your conversion projects, as it's possible that some things might have been overseen

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 27, 2020, 09:54:12 PM

I now have a good idea about how to handle the styles folder for Lemmings Reunion(Superlemmini). Instead of going back and forth renaming the styles folder to the one you want to play
between Reunion and Non-Reunion(all other packs), Just use the mod feature. Now there's no need to switch back and forth.

also in the levelpack.ini (for both lemmini music and neolemmix music) I just added the line: mods = Lemmings Reunion to both levelpack.ini's

Note: I only did this for the styles not the music since I never have to switch with those, but it can also be handled that way.

So here just extract this .rar file to your Main Superlemmini folder. (everything will fall into place)

Now you can just play any pack in Superlemmini without the burden of switching renaming the styles folder.

And thanks again Tsyu for adding this to Superlemmini, unfortunatly regular Lemmini doesn't have the mod feature.


UPDATE: I updated my links for Lemmings Reunion also. Now instead of it saying styles, it says mods(which has the Reunion styles inside it)

UPDATE: I'm putting on Youtube my Lemmings Reunion replays to show lemmings Reunion is now for Superlemmini



UPDATE 2: I wanted to fix my level for 02 09 to match the change Icho made in the Neolemmix version but unfortunately I can't since Superlemmini has the issue with climbers so that fix won't work in Superlemmini.

@Kaywhyn I didn't do that at all for retailiation. I did it because I wanted all intended solutions to be in the pack. I didn't even realize that it can be done with even fewer builders. Now I regret bringing it up at all since
now my Superlemmini level 02 09 now won't match his New level. all I wanted is the level to have miner pickup skills after the 1st building to force the intended solution. But Icho totally changed the intended solution
which is not what I wanted at all.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on October 18, 2020, 06:15:57 PM

Quote

UPDATE 2: I wanted to fix my level for 02 09 to match the change Icho made in the Neolemmix version but unfortunately I can't since Superlemmini has the issue with climbers so that fix won't work in Superlemmini.

@Kaywhyn I didn't do that at all for retailiation. I did it because I wanted all intended solutions to be in the pack. I didn't even realize that it can be done with even fewer builders. Now I regret bringing it up at all since
now my Superlemmini level 02 09 now won't match his New level. all I wanted is the level to have miner pickup skills after the 1st building to force the intended solution. But Icho totally changed the intended solution
which is not what I wanted at all.

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I see that now. Like I said, you changed both of our solutions, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just keep in mind that if levels play out differently due to the differing mechanics in the engines and the resulting solutions being different, accept it. Nothing wrong with the solutions being slightly different. And yes, I would love to see the climber issue fixed, as it has definitely led to more frustration than was needed, in terms of fixing and playing levels.

Now, if you could fix the misspelling in my username in the replay file name in the other Reunion topic, I be much obliged ;)

edit: thanks a bunch! :) 

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on October 18, 2020, 07:14:51 PM

ok I fixed the misspelling in the replay. This was a typo, because I try my hardest to get it right. perhaps this was late at night so I perhaps was tired.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on October 18, 2020, 07:18:34 PM

The same thing is present on page 8 as well, but for that one you can just remove that file since it's the exact same replay as the one on page 9 anyway.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on October 18, 2020, 07:30:35 PM

Done. Also I fixed alot of misspellings on that page not just the replay file. These misspellings must have been old.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on October 18, 2020, 07:33:29 PM

Ok, thanks! :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on October 19, 2020, 03:57:53 AM

UPDATE: I changed my HeyNotTooRough 09 Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home to match Icho's New Intended solution. Also fire hydrant is now a mini house(causing one to use a miner there).

The original level had 7 builders due to climber issues but doing Icho's new solution I managed to reduce builders to 6(still 1 more than neolemmix). Now it's also possible to do the old version level with 6 as before
(using a 3 builder wall but starting 3 builder wall just left of explosion hole)

But here is the new level .ini with the 1 fewer builders(6)

Note: I solved the new level, so it's possible. Although I prefered his old intended solution.

also I included the new replay for the new level. Also I included the level replay for the old level showing it can also be done with 6 builders


NOTE: I also put the new level in my dropbox for the pack(under levels link)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I Posted the new level along with the new replay on my Youtube. To watch just type 09 Drunk Lemmings On Their Way Home.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on December 08, 2020, 08:19:42 AM

Change for Nightmare 25 The Flameout

ok I added 2 small steel blocks on bottom terrain that Icho added in the NL version. I noticed this as Namida used this as backroute on Youtube. Icho mentioned in the comments he added a tiny bit of steel to prevent a long bash left on bottom terrain. I somehow missed seeing these 2 steel blocks when I was converting the pack. I've been watching Namida's play of the pack on Youtube.
1 video per day. Right now on Nightmare 25.

Anyways, here is the new .ini for the flameout. Just put this in your Lemmings reunion level folder. Just overwrite the old one. Note I also updated my dropbox levels folder for the pack.
NOTE: Doesn't affect my replay though.


Also I have a feeling that the NL version will need a few patches after Icho watches Pieuws replays.
I noticed a few backroutes in the 3rd rank that Pieuw had Including the famous rank 3 level The Field Trip(Pieuws solution I don't think is intended, also he had 2 climbers not used)

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on December 15, 2020, 05:13:39 PM

ok, as per Icho's NL 4.7 update of Lemmings reunion, I removed the red horizontal dart left of pool table(which breaks Pieuws replay).

I knew Icho was going to fix this one as Pieuw backrouted it. Icho also mentioned 3-20, and 3-22(no fixes though). Yes I thought Pieuws replays were messy on those 2 levels also.

Anyways here is the new 3-21(field trip).ini. Also I updated my dropbox for the levels folder with the updated level 3-21 fix.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: WillLem on December 30, 2020, 06:04:18 PM

I've decided to make this one my next LP. I love the music and styles used in this pack :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on December 31, 2020, 09:16:05 PM

RE: WillLem
Just for your info. One can play the pack with 2 choices of music. It looks like in my dropbox I have the levelpack.ini set to the lemmini version music choice. But also one can choose the neolemmix
music choice (which is in the lemmings reunion levels folder levelpack(neolemmix music).ini). So to change it to the neolemmix music choice(my preference), just rename the levelpack.ini to something like
levelpack(lemmini music).ini and rename levelpack(neolemmix music).ini to just levelpack.ini. Of course in the music folder both sets will be there(lemmini and neolemmix). So whatever music choice one wants, the levelpack.ini will correspond correctly with the music folder.


Again I prefer the neolemmix music version over the Lemmini one, so my Superlemmini Reunion pack plays the neolemmix music.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: WillLem on January 01, 2021, 03:30:38 PM

Thanks for the tip regarding the music Eric.

One question: the "mods" folder appears to be full of styles (including ones included with SL anyway) and, bizarrely, a copy of Arty's SubLems pack! Is this correct or have you accidentally loaded too much stuff into it?

And, I can't seem to find the aforementioned "Epic" style anywhere in the downloads.

I've attached a copy here so you can see exactly what I'm looking at.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: WillLem on January 01, 2021, 04:09:07 PM

Quote from: ericderkovits on August 18, 2020, 07:55:22 PM

ok yes, but that's because your styles folder is set to the normal one, because you tested original game "You need bashers this time". so it crashes. When I saw this post I already knew the answer to your problem.
as I said keep 2 separate folders for the styles
Here is the solution to the problem

1) Download my normal styles from the My superlemmini packs post and name it styles-normal
2) Download Icho's reunion styles you can download from my dropbox. name it styles-for lemmings reunion only.
3) when playing a normal pack copy the styles-normal folder and name it styles
4) when you decide to play reunion delete the styles folder and copy the folder styles-for lemmings reunion only and name it styles.
5) and when going back to normal game- delete styles folder and copy styles-normal and name it styles.

This seems a very cumbersome way of dealing with a styles issue; the level file should be set up such that it refers to a completely independent object, rather than a version of an existing object which the player needs to manually replace every time they want to play the level.

Which is the level that causes this issue, and what style does it use? I would suggest adding the offending object to the style as a new tile, and then open the level in the Editor and replace the object with the new tile.

These sorts of things are worth finding permanent solutions for to make playing levels in SuperLemmini as problem-free as possible.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on January 01, 2021, 09:44:30 PM

Hi Willem.

Sorry about that. I just noticed in my Reunion dropbox mods style folder the Epic style for some reason(strange) was missing. Because it IS actually there in my mods folder in my Superlemmini.
I don't know why it wasn't in my dropbox. Unless maybe I accidently deleted it when putting Icho's styles in my dropbox. I'm surprised you are the 1st one to even bring it up.

Anyways you are also right, some of the styles are not needed for Reunion (ie the Sublems one you mentioned). So I went ahead and updated the Reunion styles mods for only the styles that
are needed for reunion. But still some have to be there (ie dirt, bubble, etc) even though they are original styles. Because Icho noted in his Lemmini Styles old post(2015) that those have to be
there, since the regular ones won't work with his Lemming reunion. Also it will affect my other packs if I use the reunion styles for those. Also the Reunion ones I had to fix so lemmings will exit, also so traps will work and also had to make sure some of the traps
won't crash by adding ",1" to the styles init files(sound) so the levels won't crash in Java. I found this out in a post Tsyu mentioned about this. I think he mentioned he was going to fix this, but who knows when and if that will be, since he hasn't been online in quite a long time.

So now you can re-download the mods styles for reunion again from my dropbox. All the required styles are there now(including EPIC). Also removed unneeded ones(ie Sublems,etc). I guess I was just kinda lazy
and just put my entire Styles folder into the Reunion Mods folder. But many are not needed so I went ahead and fixed.


Now reguarding your 2nd post. You don't have to do the switching anymore(yes that would be cumbersome). That's why I went ahead and used the MOD feature. So no more switching.
In fact my main Styles folder is used for all the other packs(except for Reunion which uses the Mod feature(overrides the main styles folder)) since Reunion won't work with the main styles)

Also I went ahead and tested my replays to make sure every level works with the updated style mods(all good now)

so here is my updated mods dropbox link(repeated from a previous post)
mods: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qpdr2l4lqz8fjlk/AADA7lwXEePGdR-Xy_3TMX4ra?dl=1


Also this is my favorite Superlemmini pack too, due to the awesome styles Icho has in the pack along with the music.

also solving just the 1st rank as you do with other LP's shouldn't be too difficult. Only a few levels near the end of the rank, and perhaps the rank finisher can be a little tricky, but nothing I don't
think you can't handle. Strato's Open air, even the 1st rank is much harder than the 1st rank of reunion in my opinion. And if I can solve Open air then you certainly can solve the 1st rank of reunion, since as you know I'm not very good although I did beat Lemmings Open air, but with alot of struggle. Of course I know alot of tricks now due to seeing many replays from people, mostly Kaywhyn and Icho, otherwise I wouldn't be able to beat it.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: WillLem on January 02, 2021, 08:34:53 AM

Thanks @ericderkovits for taking the time to sort out the mods folder, it's definitely worth it :thumbsup:

I actually didn't realise that mods could also be used to override default styles... this is also very much worth knowing!

And, thanks for your vote of confidence in my ability to take on the first rank of Reunion :lemcat: I'll likely do it in the next few days, so we'll see how far I get!

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on January 29, 2021, 04:20:07 AM

ok, Update to Metropolis (Hurt me plenty 25). due to SL (As well as regular lemmini giving an extra basher) the extra miner I added is not needed so I reduced it back to just 1(Matfching regular
lemmini-saw Icho's PMd solution for this level which indeed took 2 bashers in the 1 spot(so 3 bashers in level unlike in NL's)

Anyways here is the updated level .ini
and the replay


Also updated the level and replay in my dropbox.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on April 09, 2021, 12:11:24 AM

ok, some changes to a few of the levels(backroutes) that Icho did for his NL version

I didn't remove any timers though as I wanted to keep them to match regular lemmini's version.


changes

Ultra-Violence 8 (Ten Friends) added the gap and added 1 builder, obviously I couldn't add the blocker pickup since SL doesn't use pickups.  (New replay added)
Ultra-Violence 12 (The Bubble Cave) added steel. Doesn't affect the replay.
Nightmare 21 (Rockbiter). Added steel. Note in this level there is a funky steel behavior as noted under Bugs in SL behavior. But I think it will stop the backroute since following lemmings can't go through. (New replay added-Since the steel affected it)

Nightmare 27 Unsecure Area. Added OWWs. Doesn't affect the replay.


NOTE: since there are no Up Arrows in SL, I couldn't add them to Ultra-Violence 1(Empyrean), so in SL still can be backrouted
          also in Nightmare 12 (Way into Madness),  obviously, I couldn't add the 6 builder pickups
EDIT: Thanks to Kaywhyn, I added 2 steel blocks to prevent a backroute in place of Up arrow.

here are the 4 changed level .ini's. Just put them into the lemmings reunion levels folder
          and 2 of the replays that were affected(place "Ten Friends" in the SL Lemmings reunion Ultra-Violence  replay folder) and "Rockbiter" in the SL Lemmings reunion Nightmare replay folder).

I also updated the 4 levels and 2 replays in the new Dropbox link. (First post)

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on April 09, 2021, 12:57:49 AM

Hey eric, actually, you can still stop the backroute for UltraViolence 1. Remember that OWAs act like steel if you go against it. Even though SL doesn't have up OWAs, you can still stop it with steel. You just add them near the top corners. See attached. Although, I'm not sure if there's a way to make it look prettier and hence not sure if the fix is worth it. The steel blocks are also far bigger than I thought they be.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on April 09, 2021, 01:23:08 AM

ok, Thanks Kaywhyn, I have done that the same way the screenshot shows. It may not be nice looking but it should do the job. It's more important to stop backroutes than have a level look totally nice, and I don't think it makes the level that much worse looking. Can't be any worse than adding water to my LDC 22 Rule 1 level (which I did only for backroute
prevention-although I think with only 9 builders now, I'm not sure the level can be backrouted as before without the water.)

Anyways here is the new Ultra-Violence 1(Empyrean) ini file with the 2 new added steel blocks. Doesn't affect the replay

Also updated the level in my dropbox.

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: kaywhyn on April 09, 2021, 01:32:10 AM

Yes, sometimes that's the way it goes. Due to backroute fixing, sometimes you give up visual quality as a result. I'm glad we're in agreement with the backroute fix. Also, you're right about it not looking that bad at all. It looks great, actually. I guess it's different once you load it in Superlemmini because of the innate high-res graphics.

I will LP this in the upcoming days! ;)

Title: Re: Superlemmini's Lemmings Reunion (Finished)
Post by: ericderkovits on August 19, 2021, 05:00:40 PM

Just as a Note.

No change to Nightmare 02 Castle Rush in SL due to Pickup skills are NOT in Superlemmini.