2.00 "Disable direct drop" and "Timed bombers" options

[namida]

I am talking about the option "60Px Fall Distance" I see in the System.DAT Editor. As this is checked e.g. in the LPDOS preset, I thought one could change this for NeoLemmix levels as well?

Ah. This one only applies to traditional Lemmix, not to NeoLemmix. (They share a common SYSTEM.DAT format, apart from a few options that only apply to one or the other; in these cases, the other one simply ignores the option in question.) This is due to the various sets of "traditional" mechanics; the fall distance is one such area in which they vary (out of the defaults; Orig and OhNo use 60px while Cust uses 63px, IIRC)

[geoo]

I started writing this post 24 hours ago so some of the things have already been said by now by the time I complete it, but anyway...

And that can easily be solved by displaying in a pack's information whether or not direct drop is allowed.

Which no-one is gonna read (I doubt you're gonna put it in big bold red letters on the title screen of a level pack), or even understand in case of players not aware of the behavior.
Ultimately it's not so much an issue to people who are aware of this thread and thus know this issue exists, but if you hand various level packs to someone not involved in the community, if they'd even test out the behaviour to see if it works, they'd then come to a conclusion that doesn't apply universally.
I don't see the point in comparing this to other weird mechanics Nepster mentioned; once you got these figured out, even if they are not intuitive, you can trust your findings.

You should just decide which physics you're gonna use and roll with it. Simon and I agree that having direct drop ('bad physics' -- Simon) is better than having inconsistent physics via an option. (For the record, Proxima doesn't agree.)
In the same vein there should be no other options affecting physics.

Options always tend to be a nice compromise solution and I'm not surprised at all that it ended up being a popular choice in the poll. But there's a difference between options for the player and options for the level designer that have an effect on the player (obviously UI options for the level designer in the editor are not an issue). While the former kind of option is something that the player might not even enounter, the latter kind of option has to be carefully considered.

There are levels out there that rely on this behaviour, some of which could not easily be adjusted to not rely on it - especially if the creator wishes to stay within the "traditional" options (those not so worried about this could often solve it via the use of updrafts).

If you want to stick to traditional options, use Lemmix. I don't get that rationale, if you don't want to use updrafts to fix your level, that's your problem. I'm highly not convinced that there are levels that need an elaborate fix to work, I'm happy to be proven otherwise with a concrete example. Is the sky set extensively used outside of the Lemmings Plus series?
Either way, levels requiring changes due to using the behaviour are easy to track down (you know the intended solution), while tracking down levels that require the assumption that the is no such mechanic is hard as you'd have to look for possible backroutes in each individually.

[namida]

Okay - how many people have a problem with the following:

> Faller in free fall = can't exit
> Faller in updraft = can exit
> Floater / Glider = can exit
> Otherwise, the lemming can only exit if it's standing on solid ground (this would include various states, as long as it wasn't a "dying" state such as drowning, burning, splatting, etc)

Floaters and gliders are generally not present in large enough quantities to open up backroutes via this method; levels do exist that require gliding into an exit (I'm not so sure about floating, but there might be some). Most levels that require a direct drop could potentially be solved - at the expense of making the solution more obvious - by allowing "faller in updraft can exit"; in particular, the Sky set (where this is most likely to become a problem) has an updraft object, as do the graphic sets used in all but one of the other levels of mine I can think of that use direct drop for the main solution (talisman solutions are another matter, but this is not as critical).

Additionally, updrafts could be included in a "generic object collection" style, making this fix usable even with graphic sets that don't include one currently. Placing an antisplat pad at the exit would also be an option.

[geoo]

Wait, if there's such a thing as a splat pad, why don't you just place a little chunk of terrain under the exits together with a splat pad? That basically solves the issue in all instances, be it normal lix doing direct drop, or floaters or hang gliders flying into the exit. Then the rule gets as simple as possible with everything that's in the air unable to exit. Yet in any level requiring direct drop or hang gliders exiting you can just place a chunk of terrain optionally with a splat pad (which should be part of the generic object collection anyway).

If the above works as I imagine, that I think it'd be a very clean solution.
If not, I find forcing the user to find out that you can use a floater or hang glider to exit is a little obscure but as long as it's consistent over all level packs somewhat acceptable if the sky set really is designed to make excessive use of that.

[namida]

Okay - final decision here, alright, no direct drop as a standard mechanic.

As for how to handle the sky set - if we allow fallers in updrafts to exit, then updrafts can be placed over exits that need to be used in mid-air. Otherwise, an option is to specify on a per-exit basis (at the level of the object data, not at the level of each-individual-exit-in-a-level-has-its-own-setting), but this seems very untidy and inconsistent; whereas the use of updrafts is merely a bit of aesthetic damage. Although the per-exit setting could work, provided that creators be sure to graphically differentiate which ones can and cannot be direct dropped - the Sky exit is very visually distinct from all other exits, after all. As far as I can recall, the Sky exit is the only one so far that would lend itself to this kind of usage inherently (actually placing the exit in midair; as opposed to placing it on solid ground but requiring a direct drop to access it - which is a situation which can be addressed fairly well with antisplat pads).

Below spoiler contains minor solution spoilers for LPIII Timid 1 / LP3B Rehash 1, LPO Perplexing 20, and LPO Mental 28.

Sample images / explanations showing sky exit (click to show/hide)

Timid 1 "Here We Go Again!" from Lemmings Plus III / Rehash 1 "Here We Go Again... Again" from Lemmings Plus III Bonus Pack. This one is midair, although designed to be (in both variants) built up to, not dropped into. This one therefore isn't particularly affected.



Perplexing 20 "Current Affairs" from Lemmings Plus Omega. This one is designed to have the appearance that it should be built up to, but the actual solution involves gliding into it. Needing to place an updraft might give away this detail, although if gliders/floaters are allowed to exit mid-fall then there is no issue here.



Mental 28 "The Troublesome Trio" from Lemmings Plus Omega. This one is indeed designed to be dropped into; with one of the lemmings doing so not being a Floater or Glider. The exit could possibly be moved upwards, but this could have an impact on precision required to solve the level. Alternatively, an updraft could be used; in this case it would not spoil the solution, but would have an aesthetic cost.