Mike! I want to ask you...

[ccexplore]

Interesting.  I'm pretty sure it works back when I only have a Win98 laptop, but maybe it was only CustLemm that I was using.

This really has nothing to do with the game being "perfect" or not though.  It would seem to be Window's fault that this happens, unless it actually happens when running under real DOS also.

How easy or hard this is to fix depends on whether there's a single place in the program responsible for drawing the skills toolbar.  Unfortunately, in any case I won't be of much help, since I don't have a Win98 machine anymore.

[DragonsLover]

The safe fall distance is never really 60 in the original version (even on the Amiga). &#A0;It has nothing to do with hacking or not hacking. &#A0;It's basically a bug in how they track the falling distance, so that even though the game tries to look for the number 60, the calculation can be off causing slightly higher numbers to still pass the test.

It's true that supposedly some of the games uses the number 63 instead 60. &#A0;At least Mike seems to think that for ONML they purposely changed the distance to 63, even though on my copy it's still 60. &#A0;So as you can see, we don't even know at this point what the intended numbers are for all the different games.

Mike specified that it is supposed to be 60. Ok, I don't know myself if this safe-fall distance apply to each version. But, I supposed that 60 is kinda an universal safe-fall distance. I mean, it could be weird to have a safe-fall distance of 70 in a game and a safe-fall distance of 50 in another one, even if it's only 3 of difference!

For the skills toolbar, this is less important. Much people uses Windows XP and plays Lemmings under Dosbox. But, yep: The toolbar disappear when playing the game under Windows only. Under Dosbox or under the plain Dos (in older versions of Windows), the toolbar now reappear.

How do you know that VERSIONNUM and CHAET CODE is universal for all these games you listed above?  Doesn't ONML use SLAMRACING for example?  You are assuming way too much about the universality of the cheat codes.  Keep in mind that cheat codes are not meant to be an official feature of the game in the first place, there's no reason they have to work on every game, and there's certainly no reason they have to use the same one for all of them.

Still there I suppose that each game have both a cheat code and a version number code. The version number code is less important. In fact, if there's only one version of a game, just specify the title of the game, the date where it was made and the mention "Version 1.0" into. For the cheat code, I know that much of the games have one:
- Lemmings : BILLANDTED
- Oh no! More Lemmings : SLAMRACING
- All the Xmas and Holiday Lemmings : SNOWFLAKES (or, I would like to add this new one for the Holiday Lemmings (not the Xmas) : SANTACLAUS)
- Save the Lemmings and Lemmings Companion, just use the original Lemmings code : BILLANDTED
- Customized Lemmings : SKIPLEVELS

For the menu of selecting the type of PC, it could be so great to have the possibility to select "High Performance PCs" and that this works perfectly... maybe with the next version of Dosbox!

For the program, yeah, forget it!

[ccexplore]

Mike specified that it is supposed to be 60. Ok, I don't know myself if this safe-fall distance apply to each version. But, I supposed that 60 is kinda an universal safe-fall distance. I mean, it could be weird to have a safe-fall distance of 70 in a game and a safe-fall distance of 50 in another one, even if it's only 3 of difference!

Maybe I was being unclear.

What I was saying is that the number 60 doesn't actually mean the lemmings really can only fall 60 pixels, because of bugs in the game mechanics in how they keep track of the falling distance.  So that a lemming might actually have fallen 63 pixels and its falling distance is still calculated as 60 by the game and therefore passes the test.  That aspect of the game I believe should not be changed, especially since it seems the Amiga behaves in the exact same, arguably incorrect, way.

On the other hand, it's also the case that some versions actually replaces the number 60 by some other number, such as 63.  Your proposal to change them all back to 60 is not a bad idea, except Mike seemed to have said that some of the games were intended to use the number 63 instead.  Still, it seems that no levels actually require the 63 (except maybe CustLemm levels people made), so this change can be considered.  Maybe.

I would like to add this new one for the Holiday Lemmings (not the Xmas) : SANTACLAUS)
- Save the Lemmings and Lemmings Companion, just use the original Lemmings code : BILLANDTED
- Customized Lemmings : SKIPLEVELS

I don't really care much for these sorts of codes, and I certainly haven't found where in the program handles them, but I can try looking for them some time in the future.

For the menu of selecting the type of PC, it could be so great to have the possibility to select "High Performance PCs" and that this works perfectly... maybe with the next version of Dosbox!

Wow, good luck, keep dreaming.

Actually, funny you mentioned this.  I actually can think of a way theoretically for DOSBox to support the timed palette-switching that the high-perf mode uses.  But it is somewhat complicate to implement, so I don't think the DOSBox folks will try to fix this specifically for one game, so unless this fix would also fix a whole bunch of other games as well, you're probably out of luck.

[DragonsLover]

Yah ok... I'll forget it too.

This way, don't touch the menu. Let it like this! Let it start automatically in the compatble VGA mode / Tandy.

Anyway...

[EricLang]

There is an indirection table for levels. So when on level (say 4), it might tell you to load level 15 instead.

Below is the table I have. The numbers have to be divided by 2. If the bottom bit is set, then its a duplicate, and it gets the new skills from an "odd table", which is loaded in from "ODDTABLE.DAT".

These are levels that have new skills to make them easier. So if the indirection table has the bottom bit set, its a duplicate level, with overidden skills. The PD version, doesnt use an indrection table, and while the data disk does(Oh NO!), it doesnt use the odd table.

; Fun Levels
db 147,155,157,149,151,153,159,14,22,54
db 70,16,29,32,38,42,48,72,84,104
db 138,23,68,96,98,116,78,100,108,134
............
 

Shouldn't it be: if the bottom bit (Bit zero I presume) is NOT set?
For example Fun 8 surely is a duplicate, but the 8th entry (= 14) the bit is not set.
I don't understand.

[ccexplore]

There is an indirection table for levels. So when on level (say 4), it might tell you to load level 15 instead.

Below is the table I have. The numbers have to be divided by 2. If the bottom bit is set, then its a duplicate, and it gets the new skills from an "odd table", which is loaded in from "ODDTABLE.DAT".

These are levels that have new skills to make them easier. So if the indirection table has the bottom bit set, its a duplicate level, with overidden skills. The PD version, doesnt use an indrection table, and while the data disk does(Oh NO!), it doesnt use the odd table.

; Fun Levels
db 147,155,157,149,151,153,159,14,22,54
db 70,16,29,32,38,42,48,72,84,104
db 138,23,68,96,98,116,78,100,108,134
............
 

Shouldn't it be: if the bottom bit (Bit zero I presume) is NOT set?
For example Fun 8 surely is a duplicate, but the 8th entry (= 14) the bit is not set.
I don't understand.

I think the numbers in the table are subtracted by 1 before being used in the manner Mike described.

For example, for Fun 1 the number is 147.  Divide by 2 (dropping lowest bit first) and you get 73.  "Just Dig" is the 2nd level in set level009.dat.  Using 0-based counting, 73 would indeed be the correct number.

On the other hand, for Fun 8 the number is 14.  Divide by 2 and you get 7.  Yet "Turn Around Young Lemmings!" is the 7th level in set level000.dat.  The correct number should be 6 if 0-based counting is used.

This inconsistency goes away if all the numbers are subtracted by 1 first.  For example, the 147 becomes 146.  Divide by 2 and you still get 73.  But for Fun 9, subtract by 1 and you get 13.  Divide by 2 and now you get 6, the correct number when counting from 0.  Alternatively, you can add 1 to all numbers for 1-based counting, so that the 147 becomes 148 and 73 becomes 74.  But either way, the parity (odd/even) changes when you add/subtract 1, and after that, Mike's description regarding the bottom bit works correctly.

[Mindless]

Mike, how much work did you do on Lemmings 3?  Do you know anything about CAVExxx.RAW and CAVExxx.MAP files?

[Mike]

Not a lot really. I helped with the Audio, wrote the installer and the line draw for the map on the Amiga version.... oh and told them how to write the bouncing bomb....I think that was more or less it.