Author Topic: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)  (Read 31044 times)

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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2012, 02:12:39 PM »
(considering only the unique levels):

It may actually be worth a quick look at the "non-unique" levels since some of them may differ quite a bit from the more familiar versions.  For example, Tricky 14 (Menacing) on Genesis gives you 20 builders instead of 15, plus slightly less obstacles to deal with (eg. where you start entering level from compared with the normal versions).  That may just be enough to put it into plausible territory.

Offline Akseli

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2012, 02:42:34 PM »
Genesis Mayhem 28 is possible just like Crazy 15. Present 6 had quite strict time limit, I barely managed to save required 98%.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2012, 04:31:12 PM »
It may actually be worth a quick look at the "non-unique" levels since some of them may differ quite a bit from the more familiar versions.  For example, Tricky 14 (Menacing) on Genesis gives you 20 builders instead of 15, plus slightly less obstacles to deal with (eg. where you start entering level from compared with the normal versions).  That may just be enough to put it into plausible territory.

You're right. Tricky 14 is possible (with 100%). By the way, you've incorrectly listed Taxing 28 as non-100%.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2012, 08:33:18 PM »
you've incorrectly listed Taxing 28 as non-100%.

Thanks, fixed.

Present 6 had quite strict time limit, I barely managed to save required 98%.

Unfortunately on the actual Genesis (or emulator), IIRC the timer will go down faster than it does on DOS Lemmings/Lemmix.  Therefore I don't think your solution will finish in time on the actual game.  I'll take a look at that level later tonight or later this week.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2012, 01:35:01 AM »
I have now confirmed Wicked 4 (Oh No! It's the 4th Dimension!) undamaged, thanks again to alfonz1986's method allowing me just enough builders.

Offline Clam

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2012, 10:15:21 AM »
Tame 10 with blocking through walls + nuke glitch (saved 18/35 = 51%)

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2012, 12:41:21 PM »
Genesis Tricky 21 confirmed possible, via glitch of blockers pushing lemmings.  The key is that the pillar right of the exit is actually mostly steel, so the blockers can be exploded without doing damage, allowing for the multiple applications of blockers.

The attached zip file contains a Lemmix replay for the converted LVL of the level.  However, in actual game, I found that, either due to mistake in the conversion, or some subtle difference in game mechanics, the 2nd lemmings-pushing blocker cannot be exploded safely (steel area is not 100% accurate in the LVL?), instead it has to be freed by another lemming exploding safely.  I have included some screenshots in the zip file to show that the solution can still be made to work despite that complication.

Offline Akseli

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2012, 11:45:04 PM »
Unfortunately on the actual Genesis (or emulator), IIRC the timer will go down faster than it does on DOS Lemmings/Lemmix.  Therefore I don't think your solution will finish in time on the actual game.
Well then my solution seems invalid, I had only few spare frames when the last required lemming entered the exit. :P

I tried the Xmas/Holiday levels and got these results:

Xmas91 and Xmas92: No solutions found
Frost: 2, 3, 9, 16 (all 100% except 3)
Hail: 5, 7, 12, 16 (all 100% except 5)
Flurry: 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 12, 13, 14, 15 (all 100% except 9)
Blitz: 9, 10 (both 100%)

Solutions for Hail 7 and Hail 12 are trivial (levels don't give terrain removal skills). All solutions are possible without glitches. I guess it is possible to get 100% in Hail 5, but not in Frost 3 or Flurry 9.

And sorry for going too fast if I spoil somebody's fun!

Offline mobius

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2012, 03:42:18 AM »
If I have time tomorrow I think I'll go into Revolution and try out this challenge.  :)

Since ccexplore, LemSteven and Minimac will be my only competitors maybe I'll have at least a chance at giving some input. :D

(who wants to bet tomorrow morning ccexplore comes in with 20 levels of revolution completed already?)
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

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Offline Proxima

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2012, 11:21:13 AM »
Here's Flurry 9 100%.

Hail 5 100% was already done by Clam and myself in the "skills you need for maximum %" topic, but I'll attach my replay again anyway.

Offline Proxima

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2012, 12:00:40 PM »
Blizzard 13 (hijacking one of Clam's replays and modifying it to meet this challenge).

Flurry 7 (100%) and Blizzard 7 (100%, glitch) have been done in previous challenges. Frost 13 has the nuke glitch solution.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2012, 01:53:22 PM »
I've just found a result not-yet-reported for one of the Xmas levels.   Not only is the solution a result for this challenge thread, but the very same solution also improves the reported result on 5 other existing challenge threads!  (Granted, some of the threads have a great deal of overlap.)  What's truly bizarre though, is how this solution hadn't been found or reported all this time until now.  It is pretty much within the ability of anyone here to find the solution, no glitches are used and no precision moves needed.  Even the concept behind it I'm sure has been seen in many other levels.

So, let's see who's the first person to figure out which level I'm talking about. ;P

Offline Proxima

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2012, 04:25:39 PM »
Probably not this one since it doesn't meet all the clues, but here's Frost 11 (100% as required).

Offline mobius

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2012, 08:53:14 PM »
I did a couple of easy ones from Revolution. (There's surprisingly not all that many levels applicable for this challenge)

5-2 “Kriss Kross” I saved 28/30, but it could probably be improved. No glitch needed! [unless you count lemmings walking on top of blockers a glitch]
Interestingly enough; I was planning on using the falling bomber glitch to solve this level only to discover it doesn’t work—for some reason falling bombers-made blockers don’t land correctly and appear to “hover above the ground” [screenshot attached] and other lemmings fall right through them! However I then discovered I don’t even need that glitch. Making a left facing water lemming a blocker works like normal for the other falling normal lemmings. ???

6-8 'Wheelbarrows of Doom' 100% with no glitches. Also fairly easy because of the surplus of (unnecessary? :-\) builders.

7-1 ‘Designed with Love’ with 100%. Bomber reset glitch used. Not much explanation is needed, pretty straightforward. As for without glitches, not sure yet.

7-7 ‘Swarthy Seadogs’. I saved 98/100. (Reset Nuke Glitch. there are no bombers in this level)
-set RR to 99
-let all the lemmings come out and block at the very edge of the top platform. This way they’ll all turn around, flip the first switch and go into the empty pool before the shredder gets there. The blocker however will be killed by the shredder.
-Have one athlete climb out to the left and block when he lands. This creates a safe fall for the rest of them.
-Build out of the pool. Block on the lower platform (near the other shredder)
-Have a right facing lemming build over the blocker but also bash through his steps beneath him so he goes out alone. He builds over the last switch you don’t want to press then build to free the rest of the lemmings. I nuked/reset to save one more lemming. I didn’t try to save the other.

note: I discovered something while playing this level (this may already be mentioned in the glitches thread>> Once you reset with the Nuke, you won’t be able to activate nuke again.

7-8 'Build em Up then Bring em Down'
*I discovered yet another glitch while playing this level. This is getting ridiculous. :o* I told Simon in IRC I have yet to play this game and not discover odd behavior. It'll have to be discussed.
Anyway, this one is possible 100% with reset bomber glitch.

8-3 'Under and Up' 100% with only builders. [this is actually how I originally solved the level. (instead of going 'under and up' which is harder)

8-8 'Take her up to warp speed Captain' is impossible however; if you ignore the beginning where you have to dig/bash or mine through the first obstacle the rest is doable.
-do it normally (either sacraficing two lemmings to flip the switches or save the lower one by building to the balloon. Build to the Teleport, build over the purple thing, and block all the lemmings together in a tight spot and free them so they miss the shredder.
everything by me: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=5982.msg96035#msg96035

"Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away."
-Hakuin Ekaku

"I have seen a heap of trouble in my life, and most of it has never come to pass" - Mark Twain


Offline ccexplore

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Re: Undamaged Levels (ONML etc.)
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2012, 02:45:12 AM »
Probably not this one since it doesn't meet all the clues, but here's Frost 11 (100% as required).

Definitely not the level I have in mind.  However I haven't bothered to check Frost 11 results from all challenge threads, so if you think there actually are any results from other challenges that your solution is an improvement on, feel free to alert us!
 
No glitch needed! [unless you count lemmings walking on top of blockers a glitch]

I have to think about this.  I actually do find the whole blocker thing a bit glitch-like, because if memory serves not only can you merely walk on top of the blocker, but you can do strange things like dig down through it.  It doesn't affect the blocker lemming himself but effectively removes a few cells of blocker field for each stroke of digging.  This digging behavior is pretty glitch-like, but maybe merely the walking part can be considered no.
 
Anyway, you see what I did on the results post.

8-8 'Take her up to warp speed Captain' is impossible however; if you ignore the beginning where you have to dig/bash or mine through the first obstacle the rest is doable.

I actually haven't played that far into Lemmings Revolution yet (I kinda stopped playing shortly after Xmas last year, though I'd like to resume and complete the game at some point), so I'll have to look more into it to see what the impossibility was about, and why it is of interest so say anything about ignoring some of the obstacles.
 
I seem to vaguely recall that some Reovolution level features objects that aren't triggered by any lemmings actions, and yet can destroy terrain on their own.  Strictly speaking the level isn't undamaged then, but perhaps it would be of interest to note solutions where no damages are done by the lemmings (but absolutely unavoidable damage from level objects okay)?