It took 12 years, but I did it!!!

[Proxima]

Now, how did you design and make levels back in 1997?

ResEdit. I couldn't actually design the levels -- well, I could, but learning how the code represents the layout would have been inordinately complex -- but I could change the skill assignments and level statistics, and some of the levels I made were very different from the originals in spite of having the same layouts.

[finlay]

Did your levels file have templates in it that show how the resources are broken up? If not, it goes like:
Rate: _
Minutes: _
Lemmings: _
Save: _
Climbers: _
...
Diggers: _
and you just type in the numbers in the boxes.

Then it has:
GroundType: _ ; that is the tileset of the level. Changing it gives interesting results
IFFNumber: _ ; if you put 1-4 in here you get the special terrain levels
an unused field: _ ; but for ONML levels putting 1 in here makes the lemmings into SuperLemmings.

The next ones are big blocks of code:
Objects: all the background objects in the level. Each line of eight includes the type and the coordinates, plus special flags.
Blocks: all the terrain blocks. Each half-line of four contains the type, coordinates and special flags of each.
Collisions: the metal and arrow collision locations. I haven't worked out how this works.

And the Level Name is at the end, and has a maximum of 32 characters, and should begin with a space character.

But you might have known that.

I made about 3 or 4 brand new levels by experimenting with the code, but it's very time-comsuming as you have to test each code to see what it ends up as in the game, and you can't have both open at once, and some codes actually crash the game because there's no graphic for them. As a result they're pretty crap, but one, "The Magic Wishing Wells" is interesting IMO because it uses four wishing wells as entrances; ie. four invisible entrances are positioned exactly above four wells so that the lemmings exit them standing exactly on top. But it never got further than that.

I'm guessing you used just hex code, though? That's what you seem to imply.

[Proxima]

No, I did it exactly as you describe, by editing the templates. (The only thing you've mentioned that I didn't know was the SuperLemmings -- wish I had known that! I could have had such fun.........) But it would have been far too time-consuming (for me at my age at the time) to work out the co-ordinates for all the objects and graphics to design levels as I pleased, so I contented myself with just changing the "easy" ones.

Oh, and level names don't have to begin with a space -- it's just that if the number is 10 or more and it doesn't, they collide! But if the number is only a single digit, the space where the other digit isn't separates the number from the name. I used this on one level, "Lemming in the Sky with Diamonds".

[guest]

an unused field: _ ; but for ONML levels putting 1 in here makes the lemmings into SuperLemmings.

I haven't done anything with ONML yet, can anyone briefly explain what SuperLemmings are?  Can they do things that normal lemmings can't do, or is it just a graphics change?

[Proxima]

SuperLemmings are just lemmings that move (and do everything) considerably faster than normal. On the real game they occur in only one level, the second of the "Wicked" category.

[DragonsLover]

In fact, the entire level INTRODUCING: SUPERLEMMING is fast-forwarded, if you look carefully, it's not just the lemming that speed up, the time decrease more quickly and when you scroll the screen, it's faster too. But I guess you already knew that.

So, I think there's an hex value for the speed of the game... imagine a level that is very very fast or... very very slow!

[Mike]

Damn, I better start watching what I say here. &#A0; Keep forgetting how many people here were actually involved in the development of the Lemmings series.

It's just that the SNES version's puzzles are considerably dumbed down. &#A0;Besides changing skill distributions here and there, they often changed the terrain, sometimes so much so it really "ruined" some of the levels. &#A0;Like, in one case they change the terrain so that whereas originally you have to do work to hold back a crowd, now it's like there's a pit there already in place to contain the crowd.

Basically, I felt let down that after comparing my solution based on the SNES version with walkthroughs based on other versions, I have no choice but to scrap my progress on the SNES version and start anew with the real version of the puzzles.

Also, what happened to so many of the traps? &#A0;Like for example the Boogieman (red eye) traps in the Cavelem tribe? &#A0;It is completely absent in the SNES version!!! &#A0;(or at least on the ROM I downloaded anyway)

I do agree the graphics are good, and the SNES version likely has the best sound and music thanks to the SNES choice of audio hardware. &#A0;Overall I enjoyed it a lot but I did wish they didn't dumb down the puzzle, but as I said, SNES marketing probably has to target to a younger audience. &#A0;That, or they think SNES gamers are less intelligent or something...... O_o

Well, if you ask Gary Timmons who re-did a huge chunk of the levels, he would tell you that these were in fact much more finely tuned. The Amiga+PC ones were rushed at the end, but on the SNES we had much more time, so Gary (and a guy called Gareth) spent much longer crafting them.

Many skills were dropped due both space, and because they were pointless. For example, the cannon.... waste of time. Roller! Whats the point. Many skills seemed like a good idea at the time, but just didnt add anything new, and so were dropped. Traps were usually down to memory, and since they were just ways to kill, they didn't usually spoil the level.

Believe it or not, Gary actually prefered playing on the joypad(!), and although I think we had finally got a good Lemmings control system for the jotpad, I think he was nuts - particually since we had the SNES mouse! He however, liked the ability to pause and "step" lemmings a frame at a time.....

The number of lemmings being dropped from 100 to 80 was a technical descision. I just couldn't draw 100 and keep the speed up - it was only 3.5Mhz! They were ALL drawn with the processor! This affected most levels, and since they all now had top be tweeked anyway, we took to oppertunity to  fine tune them.

And since Gary was Mr. Lemming in those days... I think he was right

[Proxima]

The number of lemmings being dropped from 100 to 80 was a technical descision. I just couldn't draw 100 and keep the speed up - it was only 3.5Mhz! They were ALL drawn with the processor! This affected most levels, and since they all now had top be tweeked anyway, we took to oppertunity to  fine tune them.

Including The Steel Mines of Kessel, I wonder? Are you saying you deliberately made it as hard as it is, so that it requires an incredibly complex solution? Or did you just overlook it somehow?

[guest]

Actually, Mike was talking about the SNES version of Lemmings 2, not the Mac version of Lemmings 1.  [Although I don't think there is anywhere near 100 or even 80 Lemmings in the few versions of Lemmings 2 that I've played, so I think Mike's memory might've gotten a bit mixed up over the years...]

[Mike]

Yeah, I was talking L2 on the SNES here... although the Steel Mines was mine, I did it on the Amiga, the Mac guys managed to mess up without my help....for a change.

I remember the MONO version on the mac had a problem with Pea soup. The "peas" were the wrong shade of gray, and so you couldn't see them  

You could usually tell my levels. Pretty pictures... funny names (island of the wicker people - I had just seen batman), fast food kitchen... hero time... and the rest.

Gary's were ALWAYS minimalist with surrounding irrelavent  "fluff".

Scotts were "normal" I guess.

[guest]

So...who did "We All Fall Down"?

[Mike]

Gary Timmons

[Proxima]

I have a couple more questions for Mike if he's willing to answer, since I've wondered about these for a long time........

Which solution was intended on the following levels -- If at first you don't succeed; Come on over to my place; Poor Wee Creatures; The Great Lemming Caper; Save Me? (There are others I want to know about, but I thought I'd better start with just five so as not to overwhelm you!)

And was it intentional that on some of the levels where it's not required to save 100%, it's still possible but much harder (Turn around young lemmings, Tightrope City, Cascade)?

[Mike]

errr... you can ask... I might not remember though. those levels were Gary's too, so I cant remember the original solution.

Actually yes. The great thing with Lemmings is the "open" nature of the game. There usually more than one solution. We all spent many hours playing it and getting all the tricks that you guys used long before the game was out.

All of us would try over and over to save even more, just like you guys.

The tricks of using diggers, then building to make a blocker and not losing him.... or minding under a blocker to save him too were all done by us before the game was even released.

Once of Gary's levels had an "oddity" that made Dave insist that the level must be possible 100% of the time, and Gary found a way to do it.. (Cant remember the name of it off hand).

[guest]

Once of Gary's levels had an "oddity" that made Dave insist that the level must be possible 100% of the time, and Gary found a way to do it.. (Cant remember the name of it off hand).

 I don't understand what you mean.  I suppose you can always create a leve that's possible 100% of the time simply by providing a short, direct route with nothing to do between the entrance and the exit.  That wouldn't make much of a level though.