Author Topic: [Lemmings 2] What skills can't you live without for gold?  (Read 27563 times)

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Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2010, 12:35:08 AM »
Beach 3:<snip>But it looks like 1 laser blaster is unavoidable.

And here's how to eliminate the laser blaster.

Quote from: Hints
a) a diver can push a lemming inside a wall
b) it's true you can't assign a crawling lemming skills, but maybe you can get him to stop crawling...?

Quote from: spoiler
As in the typical solution, start by firing an arrow to block the crowd, letting one lemming hero out to canoe and hang-glide.  But also fire 2 more arrows, like in screenshot A, to ensure that later when you assign a bomber near the steel, no one gets flung off to the water.

Steer your hero to end up on the steel platform below the pool of water near the entrance.  Just as your hero is about to turn around at the wall (but still facing left), assign him diver (screenshot B).  The diving action will cause the lemming to end up sufficiently inside the wall that he will start crawling up it.

When your hero has crawled up about 2/3 of the height of a steel block (16 pixels, so about 9-10 pixels), assign bomber to a lemming in the crowd near the steel (screenshot C).  In addition to removing some terrain, the bomber's knockback will knock back the crawler also, giving you a chance to assign him the 2nd bomber when he gets up after swooning.  This means your 2nd bomber can explode below the lowest point of the crater of the 1st bomber, making it possible to break through the terrain.  Finish the level with a glue pourer to seal that narrow gap.

---------------

I also improved Circus 5 to 1 platformer rather than 2.  This is just a modification of my 4-skills solution to that level, replacing the rightmost platformer with stacker+basher.

Offline Simon

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2010, 06:29:41 PM »
Got one :-)

Polar 1: You can choose two of these and still blast through all the walls: flame thrower, all bazookas and all mortars. To get a worker far ahead to glue pour, you can use either a runner or an explosion's stun. Furthermore, it's possible to save the 2nd glue pourer by bazooking the wall above the steel at a certain point, creating a step out of removable terrain leftover. Result: 1 glue pourer.

-- Simon

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2010, 07:51:25 AM »
Continuing on with Beach:

Beach 6:
  • The minimum skills solution uses a ballooner, a platformer, a roper, a club basher, and two scoopers.  In this solution:
    • The club basher can be replaced with fencers quite easily.
    • The second roper can be used in place of the platformer.
    • The ballooner can be eliminated by using an attractor for crowd control, instead.
  • I've eliminated ropers by doing some clever scooping, such that no ropers are needed to turn everyone to the left (see spoiler).
  • Finally, one of the scoopers can be eliminated without too much difficulty.

So the result here is just 1 scooper.

Beach 7: 
  • I've got the jumpers down to 2, using ccexplore's miner/jumper trick at the tree (the beginning of the level is done slightly differently to avoid a jumper there).
  • Bashers can be eliminated by mining through the green bucket and stomping through the tree.
  • The runner and stompers are not used in the minimum skills solution.
  • By using a series of bashers, miners, and jumpers at the striped buildings, the lemmings can get high enough to bash directly to the exit, avoiding the swimmer.
  • It looks like the platformers and at least one miner are needed no matter what.

My result here is 2 platformers, 2 jumpers, and 1 miner.

Beach 8:
  • The minimum skills solution uses a magic carpet, three archers, and a builder.
  • The magic carpet is avoidable by using the bomber to fling a lemming to the ledge under the sun.
  • The builder can be replaced with an archer quite easily.
  • Archers are also avoidable (see spoiler).

The end result is therefore None.

Quote from: Spoilers
Beach 6 No Ropers:  Balloon over the tree and platform over the water.  Make the leader scoop when he is a few steps past the steel on the other side of the water.  Jump him before he breaks through and then scoop the other way.  If done properly, he will hit the bottom of the steel, but create a small gap underneath that the lemmings can fall through.  Now platform over the trap, fence through the tree, and club bash to the exit.  Release the crowd with fencers.

Beach 8 No Archers:  Restrain the crowd with an attractor and have one lemming magic carpet 2x so that he ends up on the island under the entrance with the palm tree.  Build 2x from the right side of this island to create a landing for the crowd.  The leader will land on the second of three small islands.  Build from the second island to the third, and then drop down to the large, bare island.  On this island, make the leader a bomber, and then bash from the bottom of the bomber pit.  Stop the basher by making him build.  If done properly, nobody will be able to walk out the right side of the pit.  Now use your last builder to get to the exit and release the attractor.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2010, 03:03:11 AM »
People might've noticed that I've started the recent habit here of improving other people's attempts rather than doing whole new levels.  This is purely to restrain myself from overrunning the entire challenge thread like I sort of did with the min-skill one.  (It is also admittedly less work for me. :P)  It is not in any way trying to diminish the efforts of other people on the same levels.

Anyway, on that note:

Beach 6:<snip>So the result here is just 1 scooper.

Here's a no-scooper solution for Beach 6.  It uses no glitches, just some subtle things with the exact details of the terrain:

Quote from: hint
Your first no-scooper problem is that at the upper-right area of the level, you can't rope directly into the top platform where the red bucket sits, starting from the free-floating platform below it.  But it turns out by getting through the clubhouse a particular way, there is a tiny piece of terrain you can rope to from the free-floating platform that will enable you to turn lemmings around.

The next no-scooper problem is how to create a path to the exit with the limited leftover skills.  The main trick here is to platform to the right, starting from the edge of the lower right leaf of the tree left of the suction trap closest to the exit (phew, that's a mouthful!).

Quote from: spoiler
Fence through the tree nearest the entrance, then use the attractor to hold back everyone except one hero lemming.  Hero lemming platform over the water as usual.  He will club-bash over the clubhouse, but you must start club-bashing at the precise location in screenshot A.  This will allow him to stop club-bashing with a tiny bit of leftover terrain from the right edge (screenshot B), terrain that you can rope to for turning everyone around (screenshot C).

Now rope and fence as usual.  Once your hero is approaching the suction trap's trigger, use a ballooner to bring him onto the lower-right leaf of the tree.  The part of the upper-right leaf that attaches to the tree will turn lemmings around on the lower-right leaf, so you can platform to the right from the right edge of the lower-right leaf (screenshot D).  Jump the lemming after the 11th platform brick to prevent the platform from fully connecting, and you now have a path to the exit (screenshot E).  Release the attractor and you're done.

I haven't looked at Beach 7 in detail yet, but even I have to doubt that there'd be any way to make that level not break the "none" streak on Beach so far.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2010, 02:33:37 PM »
Beach 7: <snip>
  • By using a series of bashers, miners, and jumpers at the striped buildings, the lemmings can get high enough to bash directly to the exit, avoiding the swimmer.
  • It looks like the platformers and at least one miner are needed no matter what.

Here's a no-miner solution for Beach 7.  It's really just a variation of inspired by LemSteven's no-swimmer solution (similar concept, somewhat different details):

Quote from: hint/spoiler
Instead of eliminating the swimmer, use the swimmer and the other usual skills (a stomper for the tree is recommended) to get a lemming up on top of the striped buildings as usual, and then have him stomp+jump a few times to create the additional steps necessary for getting high enough to bash to the exit.  You need to get at least 27 pixels above ground-level of the striped buildings.

I've attached a single screenshot showing an example result.  You will end up using pretty much every other non-miner skills given in the level.  Here's a detailed accounting of usage:

Quote from: spoiler
You need to send 2 lemmings instead of 1 over the green bucket, one who will swim etc., and the other will platform and then use 3 bashers+3 jumpers to create the first 3 steps up the striped buildings.  (Each basher+jumper step will gain you 6 pixels in height, so you get 18 pixels so far.)  To send 2 lemmings over the green bucket, you must use at least one jumper (the other one you can and will use a runner; note that the swimmer must also be the runner).

The usual route towards the top of striped buildings will take 1 swimmer, 1 stomper (for getting through the tree), 1 runner (which you may already assigned before) and 3 jumpers.  Finally, once on top of striped building,  you need at least 3 stompers+3 jumpers to create steps to gain the additional 9+ pixels required for the magic 27, given that the maximum walkable step-height is 4 pixels.  Throw in the usual platformer for the narrow gap left of the green bucket, basher through green bucket, plus final bashing towards exit, and you wound up using every non-miner skill with only 1 stomper to spare.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2010, 06:03:18 PM »
Good job!  :thumbsup:

I suppose I should mention that this is somewhat different from my no-swimmer solution, which requires all five bashers at the striped buildings (four to get up 24 pixels and one to complete the way to the exit).  Using just 3 bashers to get up 18 pixels won't work because the two miners combined will only get about six pixels at most.

To do this, I had to avoid the green bucket completely by platforming at the start and jumping the lemmings that caught up before the gap was covered.  I sent a runner ahead to take care of the second gap before anyone caught up.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2010, 03:58:45 PM »
Taking an exception to "only improving other people's results", because I just spent some time with Medieval 9, I might as well work out the results of that level for this thread as well.  Though a bit of an anti-climax as there are no fancy solutions involved here.

The "fewest skills" thread show that archers are the only common skill to the four solutions given there.  But a no-archer solution is also possible and not very hard (see hints and spoilers).  So the final result for Medieval 9 is none.

Quote from: hint
Use 2 spears to create the bridge for getting across the water.  Of course, to do so, you will use a bunch of other skills to get a lemming into the correct position for throwing the spears.

Quote from: spoiler
Use attractor to hold all but 1 lemming, and use 3 jumpers to get that lemming all the way to the right, at that area right of the large pool of water and underneath the shield, so he can turn around facing left.  Then balloon him up to the floating platform, where he can throw the 2 spears for the crowd to cross water.  The rest is obvious

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2010, 02:51:36 PM »
Having posted improvements for Medieval 4 recently on the min-skill and fewest-skill-type challenges, I think I can now post results for this thread as well:

  • The fewest-skill-type thread has a no-surfer solution for this level.  It uses up all other available skills.
  • The min-skill thread has a 7-skill solution which uses 1 stacker, 2 glue pourers, 1 surfer, 1 club basher, and 2 sand pourers.  You can replace one of the sand pourer with another stacker (stack on the left side of the pit and then glue pour).

Beyond that I'm not seeing any other possible reductions.  So final result is 1 club basher, 1 sand pourer, 1 stacker, and 2 glue pourers.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2010, 07:50:12 PM »
Circus 9: 1 laser blaster, 1 platformer, and 1 magic carpet -- the laser blaster is needed to free the crowd, and it appears that a magic carpet is needed to get to a place where you can do so.  Finally, a platformer is needed to reach the exit.

Turns out you can get to where you need to laser-blast without using magic carpets, using a glitch very similar to one already used before.

Quote from: hint
Remember how divers can push a lemming sufficiently inside a wall to trigger crawling?  There's a skill available in this level that has a similar effect (and it's not the hopper, whose glitch doesn't actually make the lemming crawl per se anyway).

Quote from: spoiler
If you assign pole vaulter to a lemming just before it turns around at a wall, he will immediately trip and fall, but doing so will actually put him slightly inside the wall when he gets up, similar to using a diver right against the wall.  However, unlike the diver, a single pole vaulter does not quite push you far enough inside the wall for successful crawling, so you'll need to assign a 2nd pole vaulter when the lemming gets up.

For this level, use LemSteven's min-skill solution, but use the 2 pole vaulters to crawl up on the left for laser blasting, instead of using a magic carpet to get up there.

[edit: also added a result for Highland 3.  I got 2 builders for the min-skill solution, and I really don't see any way to solve the level with fewer builders.]

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2010, 01:25:05 AM »
Good work!   :thumbsup:

I've been quite busy lately, so I haven't had much time to play Lemmings.  But I will go ahead and wrap up Beach.

Beach 9: -- The jumpers, rollers, archer, and filler are clearly not necessary.  I've also managed to control the crowd without using the attractor, so that is not necessary, either.  Bazookas and mortars can each be eliminated in separate solutions.  Finally, I've eliminated platformers by flinging everyone over the first pool of water (see spoiler for details).  The result is therefore none.

Beach 10:  ccexplore's 4-skill solution requres 2 archers and 2 scoopers.  One of the scoopers can be eliminated without too much difficulty, and a builder can be used in place of the second archer.  So my result is 1 scooper & 1 archer.

Quote from: spoiler
Beach 9 No Platformers:  Make the first lemming a mortar after he takes a few steps.  Now assign a second mortar in the same place.  If done properly, you should create a holding cell for the crowd.  Use an attractor to get as many lemmings bunched together as possible.  While you're waiting for everyone to come out of the entrance, use about 4-5 bazookas (start a short distance right of the entrance) to begin blasting the path to the right of the water.

Once everyone is dancing, jump the attractor and allow everyone to accumulate into the holding cell.  Use jumpers to get the crowd as tight as possible, and then have the lemming in front fire a bazooka just before hitting the left side of the holding cell.  The explosion should hopefully fling everyone over the water, and they should get stuck under the sand castle.  Carefully use more bazookas/mortars to break through to the ground below, making sure nobody gets flung back into the water.

Now the lemmings should all be heading for the clam trap.  To keep them from getting eaten, have the lemming in front fire an arrow toward the trap trigger.  If the arrow does not cover the trigger, use a filler to finish the job.  Now blast through the large clam and you're done.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2010, 10:45:53 AM »
Nice work on Beach 9 no-platformer. :thumbsup:

Speaking of platformer elimination, the glitch I just used for Circus 9 finally enables a no-platformer solution for Circus 10!  This is one of my more complex solutions to date.  The glitch is actually just a small (albeit essential) part of it.  In planning the solution, I actually needed to write a computer program to help me calculate the number of filler pixels required for various configurations of the crowd-trapping pit's width and height (though ultimately there are just 16 combinations, so it's doable by hand too I guess), to find the ones that work out.

Quote from: hint/concept
Suppose you have a one-pixel wide, tall column ("the straw") leading down into to a perfectly rectangular pit ("the juicebox"), situated right into a wall; something like this (the dots are empty space pixels, X, W = wall pixels; the whole thing surrounded by more terrain pixels except the opening at the top of the straw):

XX.WWWWWWWW
XX.WWWWWWWW
XX.WWWWWWWW
XX.WWWWWWWW
XX.WWWWWWWW
XX.WWWWWWWW
XX.WWWWWWWW
XX....WWWWW
XX....WWWWW
XX....WWWWW
XX....WWWWW
XX....WWWWW

Suppose the crowd is milling about at the bottom of the juicebox, and you have fillers pouring in coming from the side where the straw resides ("left" in the picture above).  If the filler fills up the entire juicebox and no more than bottom 4 pixels of the straw, every lemming is guaranteed to crawl up on the side away from the straw ("right" in the picture above, or in other words, they will crawl through the W's above the juicebox).  In other words, even if the left wall of the straw (the X's) doesn't go all the way up to where you need to, it's okay because no lemming will crawl up following that wall; they will all follow the walls on the right (the W's).

This comes about from the game mechanics of crawling.  PM me if you want a more detail explanation.

Quote from: full solution
Start with 1st lemming scoop after moving up 3 pixels of the slope (screenshot A).  When scooper breaks through, one lemming will overtake him, and the scooper himself will fall with a swoon (but not the overtaking lemming who can walk immediately).  This ensures everyone gets trapped in the stomper's pit created by the overtaker.

The stomper's pit should be situated right next to the wall on the right, so that it goes 4 columns of pixels into the wall (screenshot B).  Meanwhile, at least 2 lemmings should turn left from the end of the scooper's tunnel while it was still in progress.  Jump one of them to the left to crawl up the steel using the pole-vaulter glitch (screenshot B again).  He will use a scooper and a club basher to prepare the way to the exit, in particular creating an opening at the right wall at that area so later the crowd doesn't crawl to oblivion. (screenshot D)  Another of the lemming that turned left from the first scooper, let him fall down and then club-bash through the blue triangular slope on the right (screenshot C).  In the meanwhile, jump the stomper immediately after he stomped down 4 times (screenshot B).  For timing purposes later, please follow screenshot B exactly for when to assign the stomper a jumper.

Now wait until last lemming comes out of entrance (at clock about 7:34).  Jump him immediately after he steps down into the first step of the scooper tunnel (screenshot E).  The jumping will reflect off the ceiling so he will turn left.  Now watch for the second-to-last lemming to just move off the green pedestal at bottom right, exactly at position shown in screenshot F.  At that moment, place your cursor at the crowd milling in the stomper's pit, and assign stacker.  If you followed my prescribed timing now and in earlier steps, the stacker's position should create the "juicebox setup" mentioned in hints/concepts, with the stack being the left wall; the size of the juicebox is 5 pixels wide by 10 pixels tall.

In the meanwhile, as soon as the last lemming out falls down on the left, assign him filler (screenshot G).  It doesn't have to be pixel-precise but it must be before he moved left much after landing (you have about a margin of about 4 pixels I think?).  Pouring filler facing left will "burn off" a number of filler pixels that will otherwise ruin the juicebox setup we're working towards, because those pixels will stay on this platform.  The rest will drip down into the area between the green pedestal and the stack.

Now have the lemming turn around facing right, then have him pour filler 3 more times.  The filler will eventually get over the stack, and just enough of it will go into the juicebox to trigger the entire crowd to crawl all the way up (screenshot H).  Finally, have your filler-pouring lemming fall into the "straw", and immediately assign him pole-vaulter twice when he lands, to make him also crawl all the way up (screenshot I, J).

So yep, Circus 10's final result is an unexpected none.

[edit: as usual, I might have over-complicated things slightly. :XD: I've attached an alternate method that may lead to another no-platformer solution.  It still requires a bit of pixel precision and some planning with fillers, but maybe not as much work?]

Quote from: alternate method quick outline
Looking at the screenshot.  The dent in the bottom right wall is created by interrupting a scooper mid-scoop assigning him jumper.  Notice the shape, in particular the upper-right 2 pixels.  It may be possible to pour fillers such that you create a step trapping everyone in that 2-pixel area, and then you can use a stacker inside there to make everyone crawl.  Just like my first no-plaformer solution, use pole-vaulters to send a lemming up ahead to set things up for the exit.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2010, 02:14:35 AM »
Following naturally from a major improvement I made to Highland 4 in the min-skills challenge thread, here is my result for Highland 4 for this challenge:

The min-skills solution doesn't use attractors.  The standard solution doesn't need fencers nor jumpers.  A no-filler solution is also possible and not too difficult to work out (see hints or screenshots).

This leaves throwers, and using a crawling route concept, I have a solution that only uses 3 throwers.  Final result:  3 throwers.

Quote from: hints (just go to screenshots for full solution)
No fillers:  it's pretty obvious that for a stone path that doesn't require fillers for the crowd to get onto, the leftmost stone must be sticking against the left wall of the pit, which means it must be thrown by a lemming inside the pit.  You will basically create the entire stone path using the lemming in the pit, and then once you release the crowd to go over the stone path, you can use the remaining skills (there are plenty of fencers and jumpers, as well as a few spare throwers left) to extricate the remaining lemming out of the pit, over the "stone path ceiling", and on his way to the exit.  See screenshots for one example of how I did it.  I didn't show individual steps because there's some margin of error for where you throw and stuff.

3 throwers:  the pit can be taken care of entirely with fillers.  Then to set up crawling, there's a pixel-precise location you can throw so that the ball sticks to the right wall almost but not actually landing on the blue triangle slope, which means the slope and the bottom-right empty pixel of the ball will form a trigger spot for crawling.  The lemming will crawl against the column of pixels 3 away from the right wall (corresponding to the vertical central axis of the ball), so simply stack balls vertically to determine how far up the crawl goes, and then have the topmost ball offset 2 pixels to the left from the vertical stack to form an opening to both stop crawling and create a wall that turns the crawled lemming back to the right.  3 throwers suffice to create a tall-enough ball stack to start fencing.

For the fencing, because the normal slope of fencing is too shallow, you'll enhanced the amount you go vertically by interrupting the fencing after each single slope, and starting the next one at the highest point available.  It's also pixel-precise important where you start the first fence-stroke, since:
  a) the lowest point of the surface is only 2 pixels in width
  b) you start only barely high enough for this to work
  c) the highest point of a fence stroke is at the very end of the tunnel, so you have no flexibility in how much horizontal distance you gain per stroke.

See screenshots for the pixel-precision details.


Offline LemSteven

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2010, 02:53:38 AM »
Good job on Highland 4.  I had a brief look at Egyptian this evening, and heres what I've come up with:

Egyptian 2:  The attractor, stomper, jumpers, and runners are all easy to avoid.  I've also avoided platformers by using glue pourers to fill over the water and cross the gaps.  I can get glue pourers down to one by making the bottom two sets of lemmings crawl up to the top group.  Finally, it should be pretty obvious that the minimum  number of flame throwers is two.  The result is therefore 1 glue pourer & 2 flame throwers.

Egyptian 3:  All of the non-digging skills are clearly not needed.  Using a path down the left side of the level, it is possible to complete the level with just two digging skills.  Some of the possible combinations include Fencer/Stomper, Fencer/Scooper, and Scooper/Stomper.  Since no skills are common among all combinations, the end result is none.

Egyptian 4:  1 twister is needed to create a tunnel for the crowd.

Egyptian 5:  It appears that most of the skills from the minimum skills thread are needed.  The only things I was able to remove were the runner and one of the jumpers.  See the spoiler for how to do this.  The result comes down to 1 stomper, 3 bashers, 2 glue pourers, & 1 jumper.

Quote from: spoiler
Egyptian 5 One Jumper:  You can delay the runner in the end with a stomper+basher so that the glue covers the final gap before he gets there.

Egyptian 5 No Runner:  Before starting the second bash, wait for the crowd to bunch up some.  You need to bash such that two lemmings are in front of the basher when he finishes.  Make the former basher a glue pourer after he walks a couple of steps.  The glue should arrive at the gap just as the pair of lemmings in front reach it.

Now you have to make the two lemmings in front each jump three times so that they both beat the glue to the last wall.  You need to place each of the six jumpers perfectly in order for this to work without the lemmings hitting anything or falling in the water.  Now make the first lemming bash through the wall, and after he takes one stroke, make the second lemming bash.  The two lemmings working together should just be able to obliterate the wall before the glue arrives.

Offline ccexplore

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2010, 02:50:16 PM »
Egyptian 5:  It appears that most of the skills from the minimum skills thread are needed.  The only things I was able to remove were the runner and one of the jumpers.  See the spoiler for how to do this.  The result comes down to 1 stomper, 3 bashers, 2 glue pourers, & 1 jumper.

No jumper is possible and actually presents a nice puzzle (in the sense used by Simon and geoo--elegant solution w/o messy, frustrating precision moves everywhere, unlike my usual solutions :P).  You can probably use the same idea for an easier no-runner solution too:

Quote from: hint
Take the ceiling path to get a lemming ahead over to where you need to bash to allow the 2nd glue pourer to cover two gaps.  Remember that the slider does a little more than just letting you slide down tall walls...

Quote from: solution (no jumpers)
Assign a lemming rock climber and runner, and have him bash thru the tree.  Let him continue, and when he got to the top and is starting to walk up the slope towards oblivion, make him stomp, and then bash when low enough.  You want him to end up on the left shoulder of the "human figurine" thingie (that thing whose "head" has an eyeball glyph) floating to the right.  Once he gets there, wait for him to continue on towards the pillar (screenshot A), until he finally falls down from it facing left ( screenshot B).

In the meanwhile, continue with the usual solution, stopping at the wall left of the 2nd gap (ie. the wall leading into the area where the "human figurine" is overhead).  Start bashing that wall only after the hero lemming lands his fall from the pillar and is swooning (screenshot C).  Assign hero slider at that point.  When he starts "flipping" himself for sliding down the block, assign the 2nd glue pourer (screenshot D).  The slider lets the hero faces right after sliding finishes (screenshot E), so that he can bash through the block in time (screenshot F) for the glue to continue onto the final gap.  Although hero is runner, because he's also slider he will slide down instead of jump down the two following steps, which will slow him down sufficiently to ensure he won't overrun the glue while it is spanning the final gap (screenshot G). [It also helps to not start bashing too close to the wall.]

A 2-basher solution also exists.  Unlike no-jumper, this is one of my usual messy, tough-to-execute solutions (in fact possibly amongst one of the toughest).  The underlying concept is innocent enough, but just so many things tend to work against you one way or another.

Quote from: hint
Well, it's pretty obvious that you want to stomp down low enough to bash through the two walls leading into the 2nd gap area, using just one basher.  The problem is that this will actually break through the terrain on the left edge of the stomper tunnel, but hmm, what skill do we have that adds terrain pixels?  (sure, you need that skill type for more important things, but observe that you have a little left-over "spare pixels" during each application of the skill for the important stuff...)

That's the concept anyway.  You'd be surprised how hard it is to apply this idea to actually get a working solution. The spoiler explains all the annoying things getting in your way...

Quote from: full 2-basher solution
Start by stomping down at the position shown in screenshot A.  When stomping breaks through, exactly 3 lemmings will fall down facing right, bunched closely together.  Make the front one pour glue after he walked 1 pixel (screenshot B), so the other 2 overtake him.

Now make the one at the back runner when the glue has gone to about the horizontal midpoint of that block at the ceiling with the "wavy water" glyph (screenshot C).  He will overrun the front walker; make runner jump before he overtakes the glue and falls (screenshot D).  [The reason we pick the back lemming be the runner has to do with later moves and how the game prioritize which lemming to select when there are multiple ones under the cursor.]

The runner will jump clear over the gap.  Make him stomp immediately after he turns around the wall facing left [screenshot E] (ideally we want him to stomp while still facing right, but it turns out there's subtle difference in the positioning of the stomper tunnel for left-facing and right-facing stomper, a difference that would ruin the solution if you stomp with a right-facing lemming, even if as close to the wall as possible).

When lemming still walking on the glue reaches the exact position shown in screenshot F, jump him.  He will land inside the stomper pit, wait for him to head all the way to the right end, and assign him basher while he's still facing right (but just about to turn left) [screenshot G].  Immediately switch skill to jumper and assign the stomper lemming jumper ASAP, position the mouse cursor carefully to not touch the basher (screenshot H).  This will stop the stomper just moments before his 4th stomp.

[As the screenshots show, what happens is that some of the leftover glue from the glue pourer will re-form a wall for the left edge of the pit, closing up what the stomper broke through during his 3rd stomp.  But unfortunately, there are additional leftover glue that will then quickly solidify on the floor of the pit itself, which would cause the pit floor to be 5 rather than 6 pixels below ground level, and you need 6 for the one basher to go through both walls.  This is why we need to send 2 lemmings over, instead of sending just 1 and reusing the stomper for the bashing.  We needed the basher to start bashing before those final pixels of glue would've solidified and raised the pit floor.]

Now, when the basher has just broken thru the 2nd wall, use a jumper to stop him at mid-stroke such that it makes steps the lemmings can walk up by (screenshot J).  Wait for the runner to just have overtaken the front walker (screenshot K), then jump the runner clear over the gap ahead.  Immediately switch skill to glue pourer and assign it to the walker lemming (screenshot L).  [The reason we don't glue-pour first and then jump the runner is because doing so greatly increases the risk of the glue overtaking the final basher before he breaks through the wall.]

The runner should be sufficiently ahead that, if you assign him basher as close to the wall as possible (screenshot M), he will be able to break through it before the glue overtakes him (screenshot N).  Use the remaining jumper to jump the runner over the final gap and you're finally done!

Anyway, final result:  1 stomper, 2 bashers, 2 glue pourers.

Offline LemSteven

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Re: Lemmings 2: What skills can't you live without for gold?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2010, 05:44:00 AM »
Oops.  I should have caught that no-jumper solution for Egyptian 5.  :-[  And you're right, it can be modified for a much easier no-runner solution than what I found.  Good job, though.

Anyway, continuing on with some more of Egyptian:

Egyptian 6:  I shouldn't have to explain why this one is none.

Egyptian 7:  It appears that both the stomper and the laser blaster are needed.  The SuperLemming in the 3-skill solution can easily be replaced with other skills, so the result is 1 stomper & 1 laser blaster.

Egyptian 8:  The easiest solution uses 2 stompers, 2 fencers, 2 platformers, an attractor, and a jumper.  One of the stompers can be replaced with a third fencer, and the jumper is used to release the attractor, and can therefore be replaced with just about anything.  In addition, I came up with a neat no-fencer solution using ccexplore's "pole vault into the wall" glitch.  This solution also eliminates the attractor and uses just one platformer, so the result is 1 stomper & 1 platformer.

Quote from: Egyptian 8 No Fencer Hint
Basically you have to follow the regular solution, except that you can take a short cut about halfway down by using the pole vaulter glitch.  Then you can do the rest of the level normally.