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Messages - ccexplore

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16
Actually, those clouds could very well had been designed as moving background on the outset.  If you're not specifically using the clouds to depict a high-elevation scene like you are doing, it'd make sense generally to have them slowly drifting left-to-right or right-to-left in the background, but always displayed behind everything else, to achieve a more interesting-looking sky background.  The way you used them probably wasn't anticipated by the ones that created those clouds.

I would strongly encourage the clouds be animated though, even if only subtly, so that there's little confusion that they may be terrain.  I'm way less hardcore than Simon about all this, but I totally sympathize with his original rage essentially against the Lemmings 2 background graphics--you don't know which is which without testing and learning, and on some tribes like Shadow it's especially bad in that way since they are used so much even in the main areas of the level where your lemmings will be moving about, and have almost same graphical styles as the real terrain.

17
Closed / Re: [SUG][PLAYER] Increase number of zoom increments
« on: June 13, 2020, 12:59:18 AM »
Then your screen will always either be blurry

To be fair, how much or little you'd notice the blurriness greatly depends on the kinds of graphics.  Zooming a hi-res photograph in non-integer zoom for example may not be so bad.  Lemmings is a little more unique in that its graphic design is decidedly not anywhere remotely photographic/photorealistic, it is in fact a specifically low-resolution pixelated design, and those are often challenging to do well with non-integer zooms.

Perhaps using the hi-res version of graphics may make non-integer zooms more acceptable?

WillLem's experience with trying a lower display resolution may be partly Window's fault.  At the lower resolution the default DPI is probably left at 1 instead of the 1.5 used for the native HD resolution.  So less applications are being zoomed by Windows for the DPI thing, and at the same time everything onscreen are all zoomed by the hardware to go from 1366 to the native HD.  Perhaps the hardware is doing a better job than Windows, plus with everything zoomed maybe you'd notice blurriness less (compared to the Windows DPI thing, where it may be more noticeable since the selected onscreen stuff that don't need zooming, like the native Windows UI elements, are crisp by comparison to the rest that are zoomed by Windows).

18
I think it's more likely that the inconvenience of finding and running multiple emulators (ZX Spectrum, SEGA, PSP, SNES, Amiga, DOS, etc) rather than a single modern engine which offers an "original game" experience as well as more updated (and in some cases more preferable) features prompted Eric to point out that it would be nice to be able to easily experience the levels, in the way he's suggested, on a modern platform.

To be clear, this so-called "original game" experience is in reality a very arbitrary line that's being drawn.  Some of the levels like the ones from NES Lemmings were recreations, and there are significant physics difference like builder bridges being 45-degree slopes in that port.  So playing NES Lemmings on any of the "modern" engines out there will not yield an authentic NES experience, though perhaps Eric doesn't care about this specific aspect.  But then so can others deciding that time bombers is not part of the line they'd draw for themselves, that for some particular person that timed/untimed bomber difference is not a big deal in the same way that not doing the NES 45-degree bridges on NES levels is not a big deal for others.  Similarly, AFAIK we don't have a full graphics conversion of PSP Lemmings, so playing the recreations of levels will not be authentic wrt the graphics, which again maybe Eric doesn't care but someone else may find very disappointing.

It's impractical for one single game engine to accurately emulate all the ports out there each with their own idiosyncrasies large and small, especially with a game like Lemmings that have been ported to just about every platform.  So if you're unwilling to use an emulator, you gotta live with the inevitable imperfections relative to the actual port whenever playing on a different engine.

19
With a simple application of forum search, below thread seems to have the most context on why many decorative objects were changed to moving backgrounds.

https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3540

In essence, you have Simon and Nepster to blame for this. :P

20
Level Design / Re: Music from various Lemmings ports in OGG format
« on: June 12, 2020, 07:29:38 AM »
Aren't the original Amiga music in MOD format which NeoLemmix already supports (and also, aren't those basically what NeoLemmix already comes with)?

Don't get me wrong, it's fine to have OGG conversions for Amiga for many other purposes, just that for inclusion in levels, it'd be less to download for levels to just reference what NeoLemmix already has when they need Amiga music.

Even for other Amiga Lemmings games that NeoLemmix doesn't include music for, if the MOD or MOD-like format used is supported by NeoLemmix, it'd be smaller files for levels to use MOD format compared to OGGs.  OGG also technically is lossy compression and so isn't going to be a 100% perfect match to original, even if differences probably unnoticeable in most cases for most ears.

21
From the Quick Guide to Using NeoLemmix Features in the Editor posted by namida circa 2015:

Moving Background

A moving background object is exactly what it says on the tin - a background animation that moves. It will wrap around the level if it reaches the edge. The editor doesn't always correctly draw them behind other objects / terrain, but the game itself always will, regardless of index order or no overwrite settings (however, these settings do still affect how moving background objects are drawn in relation to other moving background objects).

The S Value and L Value are used to set the direction and speed of movement respectively. An S value of 0 represents straight upwards, with each increase of one corresponding to a 22.5 degree (clockwise) increment - so 4 is to the right, 6 is to the bottom-right, etc. The L value is how many pixels it should move per game-time second (which is equal to 17 frames). There is also a quick select panel for these.

Do note that non-multiple-of-45 degree angles (ie: those with odd S values) tend to act like the closest non-diagonal line if the speeds are very slow. Also, do note that the formulas are not always 100% reliable due to rounding, so you may need some trial-and-error if for some reason you want a moving background object's position to be overly precise.

The only default graphic set that contains these is the Space graphic set from Lemmings Plus IV. Some custom graphic sets (such as the Honeycomb set from Lemmings Plus V) also contain these.

It seems like always forcing no overwrite wrt terrain is by design, since these kinds of objects are meant to be part of the background in essence.  So the real question/mystery is, like namida said, why so many no-effect objects were reclassified?  It also sounds like respecting only-on-terrain was unintentional for this kind of object.

22
Closed / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: June 09, 2020, 04:12:48 AM »
NeoLemmix borrows too much graphics- and sound-wise currently to break the close association with DOS Lemmings.  I don't think merely changing the menus would make people assume otherwise.

I disagree. As a fan of the Amiga games, if when NeoLemmix opened its menu looked exactly like the Amiga menu, I would at least subconsiously expect the game itself to follow suit.

Ok, except NeoLemmix already didn't start off like Amiga's, and yet you were the one who was pushing hard for changing it to be more like Amiga during the very first few days you started playing with it.  It would seem to suggest the graphics of the menu are already similar enough that, together with your own personal bias favoring towards Amiga version, you automatically expected/wanted an Amiga clone out of it despite the layout actually already being "wrong" in comparison.  It would seem to suggest that the graphics themselves may have to change a lot to break this association for you.

To be clear, I'm neither for nor against any particular menu designs at the moment.  One funny side effect of having played NeoLemmix for a while is, you might quickly get habituated to stop paying attention to the menu altogether (!), since it kind of trains you to use the keyboard (since most options, even common ones like F2 level select, are not accessible via mouse only AFAIK; the one thing you can do with mouse, you don't have to pay attention at all to where you click).

23
Closed / Re: [PROPOSALS][PLAYER] New menu design
« on: June 09, 2020, 01:23:07 AM »
I would even propose legacy to be the stadard option as it's close to the DOS version and likely familiar to new players. Also all current custom pack menus are running with it and it is ensure the pack layouts are working.

This could potentially be misleading to new players expecting NeoLemmix to be like DOS: we've already observed that it has this effect. This is one of the many reasons I think NeoLemmix's menu needs an update.

NeoLemmix borrows too much graphics- and sound-wise currently to break the close association with DOS Lemmings.  I don't think merely changing the menus would make people assume otherwise.  And honestly, even if it uses all new graphics and sound, you're still bound to get some people saying that, for example, they'd want bombers to be timed like DOS Lemmings.  At the end of the day it's a lemmings-like game, and some people especially new players will naturally expect or prefer certain behavioral details to match the actual Lemmings games, even when the NeoLemmix community purposely moved away from those same things.

24
General Discussion / Re: Simon blogs
« on: June 09, 2020, 01:01:38 AM »
In some of the examples, the "extraneous" expressions are there either for politeness purposes, or sometimes for flow/emphasis purposes.  For example, "remember to X" reads more like a gentle reminder vs just saying "X" directly, which may sound a little rude to some due to sounding much like a direct command or demand.  Context matters of course.  For example, given that telling people to go to bed is typically something a parent say to a child, it doesn't seem rude for a parent to say it to a child in direct imperative form.  For a different task and different social roles (for example, one coworker to another, speaking of some work-related task), it may be more proper to be less direct.

I agree that the other examples that Simon specifically struck out (ie. "like this") are far more likely to be extraneous.  But without seeing the preceding sentences, I can't rule out some occasional cases where being a little indirect and verbose may be (somewhat) justified.

I'm well aware that I can be a bit wordy in my own writing. :-\ Feel free to apply the Simon culls below to some example writings of mine in this forum, I welcome the closer look and debate.

Computer programming is quite different of course compared to spoken or written language.  The programming example you gave doesn't feel to me like much of an analogy to the "is something that" in English.  A programming language may offer multiple ways to do the same thing, but rarely would you have constructs that have completely no effect (besides comments, but they are there to help the human understand why the code is doing certain things certain ways, as opposed to telling the computer to do something).

25
So, here are my comments for Original, which happen to be concerning the Mayhem levels.

Removing bombers from Mayhem 4 seems reasonable.  I'm less convinced about Mayhem 26, challenge solutions are expected to involve moves every now and then that are pixel- and/or timing-precise.  The change could make sense for something like Redux, but seems unnecessary to me for a version of level specifically for challenge purposes.

26
Level Design / Re: Immediate turn-offs
« on: June 07, 2020, 09:17:24 AM »
I'll go through some of those levels later over the next few days.  It is interesting though that you brought up levels like Crankshaft and Mary Poppins Land.  It's been a long while but I specifically recall learning to send over multiple workers for those levels.  It seems obvious strategy to me, considering there's no obvious telling that even releasing the crowd at the soonest moment would be sufficient time if you only use one worker, whereas multiple workers working on different parts at the same time can clearly save a lot of time.  I think at least such cases are better use of time as a factor compared to those levels that boil down solely to how soon you release the crowd.  It is almost slightly unfortunate that those two levels apparently don't quite force the use of multiple workers, but I guess they also don't want to make it too hard for the ranks the levels are in.

27
Closed / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] No-effect triggered objects
« on: June 07, 2020, 09:02:32 AM »
One other reason is - some people have expressed interest in trying to do this anyway; one even trying to figure out a workaround to emulate this with features that do exist (it's possible - but I'm not going to explain how, and I don't believe that person figured it out).

Any chance it can be shared out (even if vaguely) what kind of triggered animation they want to do?

28
I'd add that unlike the player, it might be best for the editor to always do application DPI rather than make it an option.  As I recall, the only reason we want it as an option for the player is for performance reasons.  (Although ideally we should try to address the performance issue so people don't have to compromise between blurriness and bad framerates.)  The editor doesn't seem like it'd have the same performance demands as the player.

The editor actually seems like it's pretty close, most of the UI seem to manage to retain more or less the same positions and dimensions when you compare the two screenshots.  It's just the width of the left panel that seems to be affected causing part of the UI to get cut off.  So maybe there aren't even that many things that need fixing with application DPI.

On that note, @WillLem: I'm guessing it'd be very helpful if you can look through all the other UI in the editor running with application DPI, and post screenshots here of any other that have similar problems like things getting cut off or horribly mis-positioned and/or mis-sized.

29
Closed / Re: [DISC][PLAYER] No-effect triggered objects
« on: June 06, 2020, 08:07:23 AM »
Whatever animates and is not recognisable as some other gadget is a trap.

Doesn't NeoLemmix still have constantly animated decorative objects?  Or is that also removed?  It feels like your argument would also apply to any decorative objects, not just ones that need triggering.

I could maybe see some use of a triggered decorative animation that only happens once.  I'm more skeptical of infinitely triggerable decorative animation, that might simply get too distracting for some people.  Would be interested to see how exactly they had been used in the past before getting culled.

I noticed that many styles don't carry all the different object types.  It's entirely possible for a new player to not recognize some objects because the levels they played so far never featured a particular kind of object.  I'm less convinced than Proxima that all the non-trap object types are all easily recognized by many.

Sound could perhaps be a way to convey danger even when the player isn't actively looking at a triggered trap.  Decorative triggered animations should either have no sound or a sound that doesn't convey danger, to contrast with triggered traps with more disturbing sounds.

At the end though, it does seem a little hard to not get potentially someone to wonder, did something actually changed in the level even though I can't seem to see any changes.  After all, it certainly looks like the object have responded to the lemming passing by, doesn't that kind of mean something of significance must have happened?  Constantly animated decorations at least don't behave like they are responding to lemmings passing through, so it seems much less likely for people to get confused about lack of changes to lemmings and level.  (Although that said, I still think it's preferred to keep such decorations out of direct way of lemmings at least for the most likely solution paths.)

30
Considering that challenge solutions are often sensitive to the most minute details of physics anyway (just look at the recent comparisons between MASTER-88's SNES results with ours on DOS Lemmings, and those are actually far more similar physics than NeoLemmix), I suppose there's no need to tweak levels for different ceiling behaviors, as long as the level still remains solvable as-is without too much extra work.

In that light I actually would even wonder whether that principle (ie. avoid changing the level for ceiling differences) should apply even to port-unique levels like some in Genesis Lemmings (again, excluding the very few that truly can't be solved otherwise).  How ports chose to include levels of DMA's design (ie. for Amiga, DOS and Atari ST ports that DMA itself developed) were probably somewhat arbitrary, and it's a little strange to say that if a level happened to get ported then we won't bother to preserve ceiling behaviors, and yet if it happened to have never been ported then maybe we should.

For challenge purposes especially, we don't necessarily have to put much emphasis on the intended or most commonly used solutions, since challenge solutions are often less conventional anyway and may well look nothing like the intended or common solutions.

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