And they don't make a lot of sense as they can already be simulated
"It can already be simulated" is an argument you use a lot, and it doesn't always necessarily fit. Also, simulating something is usually not as good as getting the real deal.
- Multiple Exits: Make exits limited so that all have to be used
Great idea, but
then it wouldn't be a side-quest, which is what I'm attempting to explore here. This response can also be applied to your other suggestions; the whole point here is that I'm looking at
adding things to levels which are not part of the main solution. There currently aren't a lot of options for this.
I would be more of a put it in the original level rather than make it a side quest
At least in the case of an alternative multiple exit, putting it in the original level
is making it a side-quest, I would've thought. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what a "side-quest" actually is...
To my understanding, it's anything that can be done in a game which is not part of the main objective/storyline but which can be done along
side it (hence the term "side-quest"). So, Star Coins in
Super Mario Bros., secrets items in
Tomb Raider II, and indeed Talismans in NeoLemmix.
If I'm wrong about this definition, please let me know and I'll change the OP/title so it's clearer.
Old NeoLemmix had secret level triggers, which were an invisible object that, if a lemming touched them, would immediately end play of the level and take you to a secret level.
...
an obvious solution to the annoyance of invisible triggers was to make them visible ... I was mainly making the suggestion because I wanted to find a way to preserve secret levels -- the idea of keeping a (visible) trigger object specifically for talismans, entirely separately from secret levels, simply never came up in the discussion.
Secret levels are a great idea, and I'm sure that the fact they became associated with "invisible stuff" played a part in their demise.
Then again, how else could you make something secret other than by hiding it? Maybe something that was visible, but could be hidden behind terrain, would've worked better (but also runs into the same argument against hidden/invisible objects).
Personally, I think hiding things is nowhere near as bad as making them invisible. At least if something is hidden, it can be found (and there is often the joy of discovery that comes along with it), whereas invisible stuff is mostly unfair, even
I can admit that.
A Talisman object in-game would be a great idea for NeoLemmix. It's a familiar concept, we already have the graphic, and there could even be Bronze, Silver and Gold ones - each harder to reach than the last. I think namida was too quick to dismiss the idea, in all honesty. I understand that he's looking to get things wrapped up for NL, but surely that means that now more than ever is the time to comprehensively address the possibilities that the engine presents.
I do think that "this idea has been shot down in the past" is a misrepresentation of what happened.
...I still don't feel that "shot down" is a good summary.
I was actually quoting namida, who pointed out in
response to ∫tan's suggestion that the idea had already been "shot down".
Only a few people contributed to the discussion, but of those, all were at least somewhat in favour, except Nepster. Most likely, Nepster being against it is why it was allowed to quietly slip off the radar until it got forgotten.
Yes, I can certainly see how one of the "big boys" being against something makes it far too easily dismissable/forgotten. That's why I try to keep discussions going: I dislike easy, undiscussed dismissal of ideas
especially by established long-time community members.
Having said that, I can understand the frustration of the same ideas coming up again and again and so having to have the same discussions. The flipside of this, of course, is that if an idea
is coming up again and again,
it's probably because people like it. Ideally, this should make people re-think their stance on it (and often does, thankfully), but it can also have the affect of strengthening people's resistance to it. I guess it depends on what sort of person you are and how strongly you felt about the idea in the first place.