Lix for kaywhyn

[Simon]

Hi kaywhyn,

New and exciting panel button.

• Download: https://www.lixgame.com/etc/lix-kaywhyn-2026-08-25.exe
  
• Put this executable into any recent Lix installation (alongside lix.exe).
  
• Try it off-stream to see if this idea is worthwhile.

I'll write more details after your first feedback.

-- Simon

[DanielOakfield]

Honestly, I have no idea what is different...?

[Simon]

Hi! It was a half-failed successful UI experiment. We don't keep this -1 button exactly as-is, but I learned a lot.

The old button (as in the current stable Lix 0.10.34) was rewind-to-previous-skill. When you pushed it, the view rewound to the most recent skill assignment, i.e., to the latest assignment that is still earlier than the currently viewed physics update. This didn't change the replay, it merely rewound the view.

The experimental button (-1 in the screenshot) doesn't rewind, but instead changes the assignment to happen earlier by 1 physics update. Then it recomputes physics (based on that changed history) to the currently viewed time.

Inspiration came from watching kaywhyn play Lix. kaywhyn used the rewind-to-previous-skill in the following maneuver:

• Misassign skill, but don't know yet that it's wrong.
  
• Let physics play on to see the outcome.
  
• Press rewind-to-previous-skill.
  
• Rewind 1 extra physics update.
  
• Reassign the skill. This cuts the skill from the replay and inserts a skill that is 1 physics update earlier than the deleted skill.
  
• Let physics play on to see the outcome.
  
• If not happy, repeat from #3.
  

kaywhyn complains that this is too elaborate.

Idea: Merge everything that happens from #3 through #6 into a single invocation of the -1 button:

• Misassign skill, but don't know yet that it's wrong.
  
• Let physics play on to see the outcome.
  
• Press the new -1 button. This pulls the misassigned skill earlier by one physics update and recomputes history. You don't have to rewind.
  
• If not happy, repeat #3.
  

The outcome is exactly the same in both workflows.

Downsides:

• I threw the -1 button onto the forums here without explanation. It was deliberate not to explain it. kayhwyn didn't understand it immediately. This is a problem on my side, not on his side. User interfaces should be clearer than this.
  
• Repeated invocation of the -1 button pulls the skill so early that it fails to apply. E.g., a single lix falls, then walks. You can assign builder at any point to the walker. You can then pull the builder assignment earlier, but if you pull it so early that the builder assignment would now be to the faller, it's invalid (fallers can't build). Where is the skill?
  
• You have no way to see in advance whether the -1 button will help you or if it will merely eat your skill. You only see its outcome at the later game time, not the time of assignment.
  
• Some invocations will look like it pulls back by some random amount because you always see how it has played out in the future. It's hard to build the correct mental model from observation.
  

-- Simon

[DanielOakfield]

Thanks for the explanation Simon! It's probably because I play in a completely different way that I didn't notice!

[Simon]

You're welcome. Thanks for prodding me to write down the findings!

Right, I hope that nearly all levels are solvable without the power tools of rewinding and tweaking. You should be able to choose how you play. The best puzzles are challenging but simple. If you need the power tools, they're available. If you don't need/want them, they shouldn't get in your way.

Related to the topic of powerful features:
Should RetroLemmini get a rewind feature or would that change how it feels?

-- Simon

[Simon]

kaywhyn: Want to make a deal?

You'll get your feature (button rewinds to skill-minus-2) in time for the stream tonight (Friday, September 11th).

In exchange, in a few weeks, you'll record some footage of you trying the tweaker. Let's say 30 minutes of gameplay? It doesn't have to be in your regular streams. You can upload that footage as unlisted.

-- Simon

[kaywhyn]

@Simon

Sounds good to me! I can't guarantee that I'll get the approximately 30-minute video footage to you quickly afterwards, but I'll do what I can, whenever I can!

[Simon]

Cool, thanks!

Your end of the deal isn't urgent. As long as you'll come back to it, say, in October/November 2026, it'll be good feedback. Tonight, focus on your stream.

I'll look into releasing 0.10.35 with your feature now.

Edit: 0.10.35 is released.

-- Simon

[Simon]

Thanks for the update to the rewind to previous feature for the 0.10.35 Lix release. Still need to get the approximately 30 minute video footage to you of how I use it

I have already seen you use the rewind-to-skill with the option at -2. Your usage matches how I thought you'd use it.

In the 30 minutes, I'd like you to use the tweaker. It appears when you press the filmstrip icon, it's above the nuke icon. When you would reach for your rewind, instead try to accomplish your goal with the tweaker.

Consider: You got your feature that I don't like but you claim is better. Now it's your turn to give feedback to what you don't like but I claim is better. You're already predisposed to tell me what sucks about the tweaker. This is the best way for me to get feedback.

-- Simon

[kaywhyn]

Ah, you have indeed mentioned tweaker specifically and not the rewind to previous feature, and I did have a feeling you meant the one where a menu opens to tweak assignments, which is exactly like the replay edit mode of NL

Consider: You got your feature that I don't like but you claim is better. Now it's your turn to give feedback to what you don't like but I claim is better. You're already predisposed to tell me what sucks about the tweaker. This is the best way for me to get feedback.

I think there's a misunderstanding here. Nowhere have I said that the Lix tweaker isn't good or that I dislike it (same goes with NL's replay edit mode). Rather, I acknowledge that the tweaker is available in Lix, I simply choose not to use it when I play Lix and that I have a preference for using the hotkeys for the other various functions here because it feels more natural to me and how I'm very used to playing Lix/NL this way. The simplest answer being is that I'm one of those players who prefers to not bring up a menu during gameplay because it feels like it slows me down more than it should. Thus, it's preference more than anything and my gameplay style. Also, I generally have to do things in a very specific way, as doing otherwise doesn't usually go down well for me. Hence why I kind of say it can appear I exhibit OCD-like traits

As a matter of fact, I have probably only used NL's replay edit mode a few times ever, so I almost never use that either, simply because I don't feel the need to as well and again, I prefer not to bring up a menu during gameplay. Also, when I play NL, I generally prefer clicking the skills with the mouse rather than using the hotkeys to do so. Guess who's going to be in a lot of trouble for the Lix multiplayer session next month Nah, I will have my skills hotkeys ready before then, as was advised to me

As a side note, I believe there is a topic on the General Discussion board on what browser people prefer using. I answered that I use Firefox and that I generally prefer clicking with the mouse to browse rather than using keyboard shortcuts. Again, my preference even though yes, I understand what you meant that the latter should be a much better and far faster way to browse the web It's also that I'm far too used with clicking instead of keyboard shortcuts

So yes, I'm weird like this, as sometimes I prefer clicking, other times I prefer keyboard shortcut      

Anyway, I still plan to uphold my end of the deal and get video footage of the Lix tweaker, especially after what you've done for me to help with my last few NepsterLix video streams