Level Design Contest #27 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[NieSch]

Attached are the intended solutions to my levels.

[IchoTolot]

Here is my vid to the backrouted levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXjlWI4iOAI

[kaywhyn]

Finally got the Lix R1's solved and hence all the Lix entries solved and resolved Simon's R3V3. Here are all my Lix replays. Also, here is my video covering the Lix entries:

Part 1 (Lix entries) - https://youtu.be/IWI3ycmdfqQ

I will record my videos for the NL entries later on, as it's quite late here and I really should be getting some rest/sleep

I've already gave feedback on the R2's and R3's, so I'm just going to give feedback for the R1's.

Simon's Inside Your Router R1V1 (click to show/hide)

This one is tougher than it looks despite having only builders and an exploder. Even though the level is symmetrical, the solution is very asymmetric. Before I found this working solution, I tried the normal solution but the problem is that one will always catch up before the gap to the exit is done on either side. Then I started experimenting and saw that the flingers and bouncing from the spring can land them in different places if the staircases on the floating platforms are placed right. This looked promising, so I kept messing around with that, but the problem is that it would require two builders and then there's nothing to save them from splatting later. Thank goodness that's no the solution, as I thought it would likely be way too advanced if knowledge of flinger physics is needed to solve the level. Finally, I thought about how to get the ones that landed on the higher platforms down safely without splatting, and I think that's where the solution finally fell in place. Then again, I am returning to the Lemmings scene after a little over two months away from the game, as well as finally touching Lix again after 1.5 - 2 years, and it seems that my solving skills have gotten a bit rusty. Ultimately, I was able to figure out all the levels by myself, without hints. I'm a player who prefers no hints for Lemmings levels anyway, and Lix is certainly no exception

geoo's Hannabi R1V2 (click to show/hide)

Wow, this is quite tough! Before this working solution was found, I kept running into problems of someone catching up to the Lix building over the gaps on the right side, or I thought I had it solved but then I was a skill short. The hardest part to figure out IMO was that a bomber suffices to get over both obstacles on the left side, but that requires a falling Lix in the right location. I kept trying other stuff, such as a bomber and then a builder with a Lix on the left entrance. I also kept trying to see if a cuber would be enough to get over the second obstacle, but alas no. Interesting that my solution is pretty much the same as Armani's here, and you have mentioned that his is 100% intended, so that would mean mine is too

For Simon's Rhizome R3V3 this should be intended I admit that I watched Icho's solution shortly after I backrouted V2 and hence I know how to solve V3. At the same time, I was pretty much on the right track,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I did consider sending a climber to go over the top to the far right side, but for some reason I didn't think it would work and she wouldn't get to above the floating platform to dig on time before all the crowd has had a chance to pass first. Instead, I kept trying to use close to the final Lix in the tail end of the crowd going to the right to dig above the floating platform, but seems that it's not enough time to finish up the big gap to the exit on both sides. Just a case of me coming to an incorrect conclusion on something I didn't even try and see for myself that it does indeed work

In any case, I tried to see if I could still backroute V3, but seems like you've succeeded in blocking out all backroutes, so nice job

Thanks Simon and geoo for your Lix entries I will likely consider looking at the LixForum pack sometime and providing my feedback in the future so that we can get the ordering of the levels better, once I'm close to running out of NL content to play through

[kaywhyn]

Finally solved all the remaining contest levels. Here are all my replays for the NL entries (for the Lix replays, see the post right above this one), including all of my solutions to Icho's levels which I of course pre-tested, as well as my solutions for Crane's R3 and Niesch's R3, which I've also had the honor of pre-testing. I've attached 3 solutions for Niesch's R2, one of which is the talisman solution and the other two just slight variants of each other, as well as two solutions for Crane's R3, one of which is a solution from the pre-testing days, as well as the talisman solution.

Also I have the remaining videos up for the LDC levels For part 1, see the above post.

Part 2 (NL Rule 1) - https://youtu.be/dTpF8EbWRLE

Part 3 (NL Rule 2) - https://youtu.be/9Yfxs9iM9-s

Part 4 (NL Rule 3) - https://youtu.be/s5r3VvmZgjc

Part 5 (my contest levels) - https://youtu.be/4UG2jpppYc0

For Armani's R2, I show Icho's intended solution after I show off my very hackish and extremely hard to pull off solution, while for my R3 after I show my intended solutions I show off Icho's solution, as a way to thank him for all the super helpful feedback he has provided me to help me improve in my designs!

I've already provided feedback on the R1's last time, so this will just be feedback for the R2's and R3's.

Rule 2 Feedback

Like R1, all these levels were a lot tougher than I thought! In particular, I found Armani's R2 to be the hardest of the entire pack, though that's because of the extremely hackish solution I found which is very different and much tougher than the intended solution that I personally would accept, but that's for Armani to decide. Sadly, I've solved all of these close to around the time the update phase is closed, so apologies to those people whose levels I backrouted and cannot release an update anymore for the LDC

My solution to The Tomato Watcher's R2 is most definitely a very glaring backroute, though that can easily be fixed with OWAs pointing to the right on the sand terrain

Armani's Natural-Born R2V4 (click to show/hide)

This took me a very long time to solve and hence was the hardest level for me in the entire contest. I initially tried some "Flow Control" by compressing the crowd so that they can both be released with stackers at the right time to get over the wall and also the second Milla statue, but unfortunately I wouldn't have enough stackers or I also have to place the first stack a few pixels away from the entrance so that I can bomb a faller to release the crowd but then the crowd wouldn't be bunched up properly for this. Then eventually I did away with that and tried going through the thin waterfall at the start with a well-placed basher and then bash again once on the other side after swimming through. However, this created a lot of problems as I was faced with being a skill short or the climbers would get themselves into trouble by going back out to the left.

After a long time, I discarded the above and went for a normal solution of simply bashing on through at the very start so that I could save the stackers for elsewhere. There are two very difficult to pull off parts here: After bombing the OWW, I bashed at such a time so that one another nearby Milla doesn't turn around and at a super precise location, platform so that the basher doesn't stop and continues on through to the pole. The other one is near the very end with the final wall, where the stack on top of the first one is bashed at such a time so that both sides of it are destroyed to allow the others through. I was fortunate in that there weren't any nearby Millas, giving the basher time to platform the final gap before anyone arrives and dies to the spikes.

So yea, very hard to pull off solution. I did consider the ceiling route, but this was another case of me coming to an incorrect conclusion of deciding it won't work before I even tried it myself

Niesch's Splash or Splat R2V7 (click to show/hide)

Somewhat tough, though the solution is obvious in terms of where the bombers need to go. The bigger problem is getting the execution right. I've attached two solutions, which are just slight variants of each other, as well as the talisman solution. This one was a bit fun to figure out after a time even though it can be a bit dizzying due to the splitters and figuring out how to prevent the splatting, as not a single one can splat.

The Tomato Watcher's Expediency will be ENFORCED R2V4 (click to show/hide)

Sorry TTW, I severely backrouted this one As a result, some skills left and plenty of time to spare. Before I found this hackish solution, I initially used the glider to send one over the top, but by the time I mined the crowd out not enough time remains. Thus, I kept running out of time and as a result I got frustrated

WillLem's Direct Drip R2V2 (click to show/hide)

Wow, I don't know why this level gave me so much trouble, but it's likely due to how I kept running into skill shortages or some Leminas will get into trouble before gaps were prepared. Good level, though I will have to agree with Icho here in that the time limit doesn't seem necessary in any way.

Rule 3 Feedback

These levels didn't take anywhere near as long as the other two rulesets, but still some tough nuts here. Then again, I only had to play Armani's, TTW's, and Silken's R3's here, as I ended up pre-testing both Niesch's and Crane's R3's, and of course all of Icho's levels. As a result, only feedback to the first three I mentioned will be provided

Armani's Clown Fiesta R3V1 (click to show/hide)

Nice level. I actually had an attempt at this level while I was the courthouse for jury duty (it's a civic duty of USA people which is pretty dumb and is a huge waste of time and seems quite arbitrary as to who needs to come and attend) and nearly got the solution, but one of the basher locations was wrong. This level still took me the shortest amount of time to figure out out of all your contest levels though

The Tomato Watcher's Lemmings are Beans R3V2 (click to show/hide)

Definitely not very hard but once again a level that ended with some frustration for me as I kept losing more lemmings than is allowed due to not finishing the final parts of the level on time before the crowd arrived. I'm sure it's simply the result of me making the level harder than it needed to be, though.

Silken Healer's Jumpstone R3V1 (click to show/hide)

Harder than I thought, though too much jumping for my liking, so I'm in agreement with Icho that if the ruleset allowed less lemmings then it would had been better with less repetitive jumping. This one took a while to figure out how to get down safely since there are death drops pretty much everywhere. However, the rest of the level is easy once you figure out how to get to the floater pickups which allow you to get the bunch of pickups at the bottom on the left side more easily.

All rightie, thank goodness to finally have gotten through all levels here. I did get worry that I wouldn't be able to solve everything before the playing phase ended due to how late I came back to the game close to the deadline, but fortunately I was able to solve everything. Even if I didn't succeed here, I still be able to release videos of my solutions to them during the voting but off-site due to discussions of them not allowed  unless they were already eliminated.

Thanks for the levels everyone and see you all for future LDCs!

[kaywhyn]

Apologies for triple posting, but before the end of the playing phase, I just wanted to attach the intended solutions to my contest levels

[geoo]

Wow, this is an egregious backroute to Pommes Schranke which looks so painful to execute (when the intended solution is very simple to execute).
Here's a fix where I move the second fry 1 px to the right so your blocker-bomber can't blow through it anymore. (It's also in the update topic).

btw, Pommes Schranke refers to this dish: https://as2.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/00/58/28/95/1000_F_58289557_DFySSo3h0A0KLKJZU64cuUjoglkM2ne6.jpg

IchoTolot's solution to Hanabi is a bit different from the intended one, but back when I watched it I didn't dislike it enough to fix it, so for now it's just an 'alternative' solution. Maybe I'll fix it in the future, not sure. Btw, Hanabi means 'Fireworks' in Japanese.

Yeah, I'm aware 'The last shall be first' is tedious, and was almost considering to not submit it here... But good job on solving it, looks intended. I wasn't aware of the precise bombing at the end allowing to save 2, that should be fixed though.