Author Topic: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available  (Read 932 times)

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Offline Nepster

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2019, 08:23:04 am »
The shimmier experimental release is now out for about 2 months. So far no big issues have been reported (or barely anyone tried it out :-\), which is a good sign (or not?). So I would like to release an official version around end of march. This should give everyone enough time to look over the shimmier behavior again and tell me what they don't like.

Offline namida

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 08:23:02 pm »
I haven't had a look at this yet, but I'll give it a try over the next few days. Most likely, I'm going to be more focused on "what puzzle uses can I find for this" than specifically trying to find bugs, though of course I'll report any I do find.

Would you prefer reports of shimmier bugs be posted in this topic, or in the Bugs / Suggestions board as usual?
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Lemmings Plus Series | Doomsday Lemmings

Offline Nepster

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2019, 09:41:25 pm »
Would you prefer reports of shimmier bugs be posted in this topic, or in the Bugs / Suggestions board as usual?
Either way is fine for physics bugs, because I will have to fix them before releasing the stable version anyway. For low-priority bugs that may not even have anything to do with shimmiers, or suggestions for UI-improvements, I would prefer to have a separate thread, which can be closed independantly from this shimmier thread.

Offline namida

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 08:17:41 am »
Found a case that I'm unsure about. Maybe it's fine, but I would like to draw attention to it either way, so that whether it should be allowed or not can be considered.

Let's suppose we have a tunnel that's vertically *just* too short for a shimmier (or maybe even shorter than that), followed by a drop (but the ceiling continues). If you assign a shimmier to a lemming on the last pixel before he drops off the edge, he can shimmy from that point.

Also, I'm really not sure about the Shimmier's placement in the skill order. I know in general there's an intention to overhaul the order altogether, but as far as the current system goes - I feel it should come either between Disarmer and Bomber, or between Blocker and Platformer, with me leaning a bit more strongly towards the latter. Reasoning: It's a short-term ability that's used instantly and is gone once the lemming stops performing the action, but doesn't modify the terrain in any way, similar to the blocker. Reasoning behind between Disarmer and Bomber: It gives a lemming a movement ability, like permanent skills do; but unlike them it is not permanent so shouldn't be in the middle.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 09:11:58 am by namida »
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Online Simon

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 10:33:54 am »
we have a tunnel that's vertically *just* too short for a shimmier (or maybe even shorter than that), followed by a drop (but the ceiling continues). If you assign a shimmier to a lemming on the last pixel before he drops off the edge, he can shimmy from that point.

############
............
.....|...... where | is a walker facing right
######......
######......

My hunch would be to disallow (shimmying if the ground at current place is too high), even when (the ground at the next pixel is low). Reason 1: Personal expectation from the even terrain and everywhere else it wasn't possible to shimmy here. Reason 2: Avoid pixel-precision.

-- Simon

Offline IchoTolot

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 11:11:41 am »
I would agree with Simon here that shimmying should not be possible in this corner case for the exact same reasons he mentioned.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 01:32:46 pm »
Yes, I agree, the minimum height needed to assign a Shimmier should be constant (=high enough to shimmy through basher tunnels).

Another thing I've noticed: When a Shimmier gets towards a piece of terrain that is slightly higher than the position of his feet, he performs the Hoister animation (like a Climber does when he's done), without actually being a Climber.

I actually find this pretty neat - I just wanted to ask whether it was intended or not? It seems to be the Shimmier equivalent of the "six-pixel jumps" that Walkers can perform.

I also don't see any other way to do this, because the core rules say that every 1-pixel gap should be enough for a lemming to slip through. And since transitioning from a Climber into a Shimmier is possible, but not from a Shimmier into a Climber, the Shimmier needs to gain some height automatically when shimmying towards a platform that lies lower than the ceiling he's holding on to (=i.e. there is a gap he can slip into), but higher than the position of his feet.
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
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Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline Nepster

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2019, 05:08:36 pm »
Let's suppose we have a tunnel that's vertically *just* too short for a shimmier (or maybe even shorter than that), followed by a drop (but the ceiling continues). If you assign a shimmier to a lemming on the last pixel before he drops off the edge, he can shimmy from that point.
Good find! Totally agree that this should be changed.

Also, I'm really not sure about the Shimmier's placement in the skill order. I know in general there's an intention to overhaul the order altogether, but as far as the current system goes - I feel it should come either between Disarmer and Bomber, or between Blocker and Platformer, with me leaning a bit more strongly towards the latter. Reasoning: It's a short-term ability that's used instantly and is gone once the lemming stops performing the action, but doesn't modify the terrain in any way, similar to the blocker. Reasoning behind between Disarmer and Bomber: It gives a lemming a movement ability, like permanent skills do; but unlike them it is not permanent so shouldn't be in the middle.
Yeah, I should probably start on the whole skill reordering business soon. I have a few free days this week, so chances are decent that I might finally find some time for it.

Another thing I've noticed: When a Shimmier gets towards a piece of terrain that is slightly higher than the position of his feet, he performs the Hoister animation (like a Climber does when he's done), without actually being a Climber.

I actually find this pretty neat - I just wanted to ask whether it was intended or not? It seems to be the Shimmier equivalent of the "six-pixel jumps" that Walkers can perform.

I also don't see any other way to do this, because the core rules say that every 1-pixel gap should be enough for a lemming to slip through. And since transitioning from a Climber into a Shimmier is possible, but not from a Shimmier into a Climber, the Shimmier needs to gain some height automatically when shimmying towards a platform that lies lower than the ceiling he's holding on to (=i.e. there is a gap he can slip into), but higher than the position of his feet.
Yes, this is totally intended. It was the only decent-looking way (I found) to transition from shimmier to a walker on a high ledge.

Offline Strato Incendus

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2019, 06:14:06 pm »
Quote
Yes, this is totally intended. It was the only decent-looking way (I found) to transition from shimmier to a walker on a high ledge.

Good to know that this is not going to change! :thumbsup: I just wanted to be sure that I don't create any levels with such elevated platforms of terrain that might end up not working later on in case this would be changed. But I guess if it's intended this way, it's going to remain as it currently is. ;)
Ghost Lemmings - help us test a possible new NeoLemmix skill!
My packs so far:
Lemmings World Tour, my music-themed flagship pack, 320 levels - Let's Played by Colorful Arty
Paralems, a more flavour-driven one, 150 levels
Pit Lems, a more puzzly one, 100 levels - Let's Played by nin10doadict
Lemmicks, a pack for NeoLemmix 1.43 full of gimmicks, 170 levels

Offline namida

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2019, 12:19:33 am »
Quote
Yes, this is totally intended. It was the only decent-looking way (I found) to transition from shimmier to a walker on a high ledge.

I probably wouldn't've thought of this myself, but I really like this idea! :thumbsup:
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Offline Nepster

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Re: Shimmier: NeoLemmix experimental version available
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2019, 08:39:00 am »
Let's suppose we have a tunnel that's vertically *just* too short for a shimmier (or maybe even shorter than that), followed by a drop (but the ceiling continues). If you assign a shimmier to a lemming on the last pixel before he drops off the edge, he can shimmy from that point.
Fixed now.

Once we have the remaining shimmier sprites, I would merge the shimmier code in the main master branch for the official release.