Lemmings Forums Level Contest #15 - Playing Phase (Discussion Topic)

[IchoTolot]

NeoLemmix Level Pack: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vs7dh96yy6tl8t/Contest_15_NL_Levelpack.zip?dl=1

- Put the folder of the level pack in the "levels" folder of your NeoLemmix Player.

Music: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wfq3utvabb1iib5/Contest_15_Music.zip?dl=1

- The music must be put inside the "music" folder of the NeoLemmix player. If the folder doesn't exists, create it.

Lix Levels: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1uusq6ftt05yxoe/Contest_15_Lix_Levels.zip?dl=1

 - The .txt levels needs to be put into Lix's levels folder, then they can be loaded inside the program.

Namida's bridge tileset (nessesary for 1 level inside the NL pack): https://www.dropbox.com/s/muz02y9yq1f9ki4/namida_bridge.zip?dl=1

- Put the tilesets folder into the styles folder of the NL player.

Note: The bridge tileset from namida should not be used for level making by other people yet!

Rule 1 Levels

IchoTolot's "Laboratory D-E-S-C-E-N-T" (V2) +  "Laboratory A-S-C-E-N-T" (V1)
Colorful Arty's "It's Lemmings Doofus!" (V1) + "See you on the Flipside, Doofus!" (V1)
Nessy's "Turbulent Turnpike Act 1" (V4) + "Turbulent Turnpike Act 2" (V4)

Rule 2 Levels

Crane's "Glide Slope" (V4)
grams88's  "Tree from hell" (V1)
Gronkling's "Come Back" (V1)
namida's "Tight Schedule" (V2)
Raymanni's "Seashore Shenanigans" (V3)
SQron188's "Minifigure Multi Pack" (V1)
Proxima's "Turnabout Sisters" (V1)
geoo's "Deadly Cells" (V2)

Rule 3 Levels

IchoTolot's "Death By Crevasse" (V2)
Colorful Arty's "WaterWorks" (V10)
Crane's "Dodge This!" (V13)
Gronkling's "Temple of the :3 God" (V7)
SQron188's "The Lapse Rate" (V5)
namida's "Latent Lodge" (V2)

You can check the rules details again here: https://www.lemmingsforums.net/index.php?topic=3863.0

Playing Phase will be closed on 7th of September!
Updates will close on 4th of September!

Note: This topic is for posting your comments, replays, etc for the levels. If you wish to post an update to your level, or enter a late submission, please do so in the Updates Topic instead.

[joshescue18]

I finished namida's Rule 2 entry.

[Forestidia86]

I solved geoo's "Deadly Cells" and Proxima's "Turnabout Sisters".

To "Deadly Cells" (click to show/hide)

Interesting puzzle but rather fiddly.

To "Turnabout Sisters" (click to show/hide)

Were some nice blocker puzzles; needed some time to get the solution.

[joshescue18]

I finished your levels.

[Nepster]

I solved all NeoLemmix Rank 2 level except Gronkling's one and all Rank 3 levels.

Colorful Arty (click to show/hide)

Waterworks: Very nice visuals, though the huge amout of moving objects slowed my computer down considerably. Moreover I feel that my solution is not really intended, given that I save two more lemmings than needed.

Crane (click to show/hide)

Glide Slope: Feels like a backroute. If not, then it's pretty standard with no memorable idea.
Dodge This!: A pretty open-ended level, though my solution is far from a clean one.

Flopsy (click to show/hide)

Ride across the river: Nice little level, but the idea is fairly easy to see given the terrain and skills. The stoner placement is pretty precise. And who on earth chose this background color!

grams88 (click to show/hide)

Tree from hell: This is most certainly a backroute going under the level. The first pit next to the hatch feels like it should be deadly, but actually isn't.

Gronkling (click to show/hide)

Tomb of the :3 god: I somehow have the feeling that this is not the way you imagined the solution. I only use two fencers.

IchoTolot (click to show/hide)

Death by Creavasse: I have some skills left over, so this is probably a backroute. I really hate these huge levels!

namida (click to show/hide)

Tight schedule: It there wasn't the other "solution" that fails due to half a second or so (if you optimize it), it would be a great level, though not overly hard.

Raymanni (click to show/hide)

Seashore Shenangians: This has to a a backroute.

SQron188 (click to show/hide)

Minifigure Multi Pack: Excellent level!
The Lapse Rate: Nice idea and not really hard. The hill at the beginning has a stunning design!
PS: The screen start was not perfect on my screen.

Edit: Now with Rank 3 replays.

[Nepster]

And now the two Lix levels:

Proxima (click to show/hide)

An excellent level to teach newer players these tricks. But for advanced players like me it doesn't bring too much new, so I am undecided how I should rate this as a contest level.

geoo (click to show/hide)

Very clever idea.

And a general remark: At first I took the vertical water streams to be transporter streams and then wondered, why all my lix died...

[Gronkling]

Replays for rule 2 (neolemmix)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Crane - Glide Slope

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Solved this almost instantly, but its nice with a good, classic design.

Flopsy - Ride Across the River

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Pretty nice solution, similar to the last one but upside down. Not a fan of the tileset, horrible bg colour and sounds.

Grams88 - Tree from Hell

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This one seemed too easy, but uses all the skills. Some holes in the tree, and unclear trigger areas.

Namida - Tight schedule

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Annoying time limit, and solution was very simple.

Raymanni - Seashore Shenanigans

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Almost certainly a backroute, but pretty level!

SQron188 - Minifigure Multi Pack

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Took me a bit to work out, seemed impossible at first, by far my favourite level of rule 2.

[Nepster]

Rank 1 replays except IchoTolot's Ascending, which I may or may not attempt later on (due to the huge size, which I am not a fan of). Comments will come later, because it time to go to bed.

[IchoTolot]

Comment on your solution to my R1 level:

Let's say you did a more complicated variation of the intended route which requires much more timing. You went like ~90% intended and the differences made your life harder.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In detail using the builder first at the top-middle (you have to turn around with the following platformer as a result) and starting the platformer to the middle left higher+early and not going to the very left as a result made your life much harder.

So let's say I can't really fix this without interferring with the route or putting down huge fire areas. So I will let it be.

[joshescue18]

I finished these levels.

[namida]

Everyone so far has the intended solution for my level.

Tight schedule (click to show/hide)

It there wasn't the other "solution" that fails due to half a second or so (if you optimize it), it would be a great level, though not overly hard.

Do you have a replay for this other solution you're thinking of?

[IchoTolot]

I solved all the level (for now). I got quite a few backroutes.

Link to the first video of my playthrough through all of the levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FISBfCjb_ro
Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPQxXwF3w98
Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SYWRNvmi44
Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVl2pyos1ao

+ my replays are also attached.

[grams88]

Looking forward to playing the levels.

I've got a replay for Raymanni's level. Hoping the replay will work okay. I won't comment on the level at the moment as I will need to make sure the spoil one works first.

[Crane]

Gronkling's solution to my Rule 2 level is intentional - well done, even if you got it instantly! I guess the aesthetics gave it away.

[IchoTolot]

I've resolved all levels. I attached the whole collection again.

Regarding Raymanni's level:

Yes a skill has to be cut! This shouldn't be a big problem though: Remove the left Lemming and a basher, as in my recent solution the only thing he does is bash and get to the other lems. With that skill cut it's eligible again.

[geoo]

Surprisingly for such a small level, Forestidia's solution is a backroute (which might have made it more fiddly than necessary). I'll fix it by increasing the spawn interval a little and post an update. Nepster's solution is intended, modulo a minor difference which I don't care too much about.
Icho's solutions are the same as the Forestidia's and Nepster's solution.

I've solved Proxima's level. Wasn't immediately obvious (also, the fall looks a bit like a splat fall due to the large zoom), but I managed. Nice one.

[Ryemanni]

Ah crap. It was so long I forgot what rule 2 was actually about. I will fix this.

[Forestidia86]

I have another solution to geoo's level. I got part of it spoiled but

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

in this variant I don't jump over the blocker.

[IchoTolot]

Alright fixed my replays again.

[Nepster]

Comment on your solution to my R1 level:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In detail using the builder first at the top-middle (you have to turn around with the following platformer as a result) and starting the platformer to the middle left higher+early and not going to the very left as a result made your life much harder.

You got it totally wrong! (click to show/hide)

Using the builder first at the top middle, i.e. whether the lemming turns around is totally irrelevant. And starting the platformer at the middle-left higher was actually totally required, otherwise this lemming turns around and then comes much too late after the non-glider to glide to the exit platform.
Actually the most problematic part was the middle very-right lemming: The platformer-builder-platformer combo was necessary for him to be fast enough to glide to the exit. Otherwise the non-glider places too many bricks of the very last platform for him to get to the exit.

Do you have a replay for this other solution you're thinking of?

See attachment for a less perfectly optimized one that fails due to about 1-1,5 seconds.

Now the promised comments on the Rank 1 levels:

Colorful Arty (click to show/hide)

There can be only one Final Frustration! Very nice 10-of-all level!

Flopsy (click to show/hide)

Both my solutions feel a bit hackish and not nearly clean enough for my taste.

Nessy (click to show/hide)

Rather easy in V1 (haven't looked at the fix yet), so likely (partial) backroutes.

[IchoTolot]

Comment on your solution to my R1 level:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In detail using the builder first at the top-middle (you have to turn around with the following platformer as a result) and starting the platformer to the middle left higher+early and not going to the very left as a result made your life much harder.

You got it totally wrong! (click to show/hide)

Using the builder first at the top middle, i.e. whether the lemming turns around is totally irrelevant. And starting the platformer at the middle-left higher was actually totally required, otherwise this lemming turns around and then comes much too late after the non-glider to glide to the exit platform.
Actually the most problematic part was the middle very-right lemming: The platformer-builder-platformer combo was necessary for him to be fast enough to glide to the exit. Otherwise the non-glider places too many bricks of the very last platform for him to get to the exit.

Well if you simply

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

don't use The platformer-builder-platformer combo and (as I suggested) do the builder 2nd with the non-glider lem

then there wouldn't be timing issues.

But I think I simply pm you the replay.

[IchoTolot]

Resolved Flopsy's R1 level.

[IchoTolot]

The levels are resolved.

I think I am a lot closer now in Nessy's levels and I really dig my found solutions, great levels.

And I saved all on Flopsy's level now -- maybe change the intended way to my solution if it's more elegant. I did that quite a few times myself and here you won't have to deal with fixing in Rule 1 anymore.

[IchoTolot]

And resolved.

[IchoTolot]

Resolved Crane's R3 level.

[Gronkling]

solution to icho's r3 (probably backroute cos i save a glider and its not very elegant)
(also your latest replay to my r3 was fully intended)

ill try crane's tomorrow

[IchoTolot]

Your solution is a totally acceptable alternative.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My worker lem went a slightly different route to the button and the gliders will be assigned later. So the extra glider is only there to ease precision on that route.

I also resolved Crane's level.

[grams88]

Here's a solution to Crane's rule 2 level.

[Crane]

That solution doesn't work on V2 of Glide Slope.

[Crane]

Got a collection of random solutions of my own:

[IchoTolot]

Crane's level re-backrouted.

[Crane]

I'm so glad I have you as a tester - hopefully we won't reach V11 like last time!

[IchoTolot]

I'm not sure what the big change was, maybe the trap came a bit later?   Anyway I just needed a very slight alteration.

[Gronkling]

solutions to crane and SQron188's r3 levels!!!!!!

both feel like backroutes

not sure if ill seriously attempt colourful arty's level, its just way too large for me to enjoy and i wasnt having fun playing it

[Crane]

Looks like it's going to be one of those levels that is so easily broken! So far, "Glide Slope" has only had 1 revision, with most people submitting the intended solution now.

As for "Dodge This!", I moved the trap further to the right and thickened the steps above the pit, mostly to stop the use of a Fencer to reduce the drop height.  Evidently this hasn't worked, so I will have to find something else.

[Crane]

I've just backrouted version 7 of "Dodge This!" - I have a number of tools left over - why does that always happen right after publishing it?!  Still, I'll let it stand for now to see if others find it... if they do, I may actually make it the intended solution (and remove the excess tools) because it's close enough to what I designed, but a lot more intuitive.

[IchoTolot]

You are right!

There is no escape from the backroute!

[Crane]

Watching you break my level is a humbling experience.  I've realised that I might have been trying to be too clever with one of the tricks - it involved using a Stoner to give a Fencer some extra ground to dig through, just enough to clear a strategically-placed gap in the floor ahead.  However, it's too easy to use the Stoner to backroute the level.  I've removed that element of the solution now and changed it up a bit to be more intuitive and not cause too many frustrating dead-ends.  Hopefully you'll see what I mean soon.

[IchoTolot]

Maybe this is at least a bit closer now.

[Gronkling]

nessy r1 part 1 (not really into part 2, so not sure if ill get a replay anytime soon)

[IchoTolot]

Resolved Arty's R3 level and freshly solved namida's new R3 level (Detailed feedback to that at a later point).

[namida]

Your solution to Latent Lodge is a backroute. I've tried to find a fix, but while I can fix your backroute itself, there are variants of it I'm having a hard time fixing.

[Gronkling]

solved the new namida r3 level, almost certain its intended, its nice

[Crane]

Bah! Stoners! Too much of a liability! I will say though that this is proving to be an interesting experience, because as well as patching backroutes, I'm having to adjust the intended solution as well. It is for the best though, as the level is evolving into something quite interesting now, especially where Stackers are concerned.

And here's my solution to Latent Lodge.

By the way, I haven't been able to open KL/NK, the Turbulent Turnpike levels, Ride Across the River and WaterWorks due to tileset problems. Any tips on solving these issues?

[namida]

@Gronkling: Intended solution.
@Crane: Your solution doesn't work on V2 of the level.

[Nessy]

@Crane: Try re-downloading the styles at this link where it says "NeoLemmix Styles". This should fix the problem

[Crane]

Adapted the solution to work for V2.  The new design kind of gives a huge clue as to what you have to do though (and I admit I have a personal dislike for compressor traps that don't have any obvious space for their piston... i.e. a vertical column)

Also find a solution to "Temple of the :3 God", which stinks of a backroute, unless the :3 is meant to be this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[namida]

The new design kind of gives a huge clue as to what you have to do though

Yeah, it does, but it seemed to be the only way I could enforce the solution. It was pretty much either that, or entirely redo the level, and this was pretty much a case of "I thought of an idea that I don't think would fit in LPVI, but it does fit one of the current contest rules."

[Crane]

I've had to change up the intented solution of my own Rule 3 level because of backroutes, but it's evolved into something better, I like to think.  Don't be afraid to post up a new revision if you find a cleaner solution though.

[IchoTolot]

And here are the resolves.

[Crane]

Here's my new solution to "Tomb of the :3 God", version 4 (I noticed a version 5 was published just now, so I'm not sure if it's possible on that one).

Also adapted for V5.

[IchoTolot]

And here is my solution for V10 of Crane's R3.

[IchoTolot]

Moving on to V11.

[Crane]

So fiendishly clever! More elements of the intended solution are appearing though, so I think we're almost there.  You can have a good laugh about the number of versions in your follow-up video!

[IchoTolot]

1 step forward, but I think this is 2 steps back again.

[Crane]

Actually it's not as bad as you made it out to be. Version 13 coming up - lucky for me, I hope!

[IchoTolot]

I have no idea what's the right direction on this level anymore. Here is another shot in the dark!

[Crane]

That's the one - well done!  My own solution uses the last Stacker and Fencer slightly differently to release the bottom crowd (I stack slightly behind where the first stacker built the wall, with a slight gap in between them, and then use a fencer through both... if you make the second wall at the same time as the first wall, you even save an extra lemming), but your solution is an acceptable variant.  Originally, a Stoner was used in that pit, but a Stacker is much more intuitive.  Thanks so much for your testing and patience.  Guess 13 was lucky for me!

[IchoTolot]

That's the one - well done!  My own solution uses the last Stacker and Fencer slightly differently to release the bottom crowd (I stack slightly behind where the first stacker built the wall, with a slight gap in between them, and then use a fencer through both... if you make the second wall at the same time as the first wall, you even save an extra lemming), but your solution is an acceptable variant.  Originally, a Stoner was used in that pit, but a Stacker is much more intuitive.  Thanks so much for your testing and patience.  Guess 13 was lucky for me!

[Crane]

I like to think that "Dodge This!" came off as a far better level thanks to your skill and time.

Here's my solution to "The Lapse Rate" - might be a backroute because I have a Stacker left over.

[Crane]

My backroute to "Temple of the :3 God" is still possible with a tweak.  Unless it breaks the intended solution, you might want to increase the release rate slightly or something.

And these are now known as "Crane Backroutes"?! I didn't know I was that unique or infamous!

[mobius]

@ Crane; is this the intended solution to Glide Slope? (using latest update)

[Crane]

@mobius Yes it is! Cute and simple!

The coloured bricks are supposed to be a guide, but they only work if you place the digger as far to the right as possible.

[Crane]

@Gronkling If this is the solution to "Tomb of the :3 God", you are a genius!

[Gronkling]

yay thats 100% intended solution

[joshescue18]

I finished Raymanni's level.

[Nessy]

I have solved the first level of IchoTolot's Rule 1 entry. Still working on the second level, but I would like to know if the first level of Rule 1 is intended before moving on.

I loved the solution and level so far though

[IchoTolot]

A slight backrote, but a bunch of elements of the intended route were still there. Fixed it with pick-up skill repositioning.

[grams88]

I had a shot at IchoTolot's two levels, they look nice and well designed, still not solved any of them as of yet. Hopefully very soon.

[Nessy]

It is with a heavy heart that I must sadly announce that I won't be finishing my LP of these contest levels. They're very tricky which I don't mind one bit because I love the challenge! However it becomes a major pain while recording because I end up with hour-and-a-half long videos where nothing gets solved in the end. I might change my mind later on though.

I will upload videos where I showcase my off-screen solutions and talk in as much detail as possible about my experiences with the levels. That way I have good contest videos to showcase and also allow room for the bonus videos

[IchoTolot]

So, setting the level creation phase to ~ 2 month I would call a success, as it provides every person a fair chance to get an entry in.

But for the playing phase, it seems a bit like the 2 months may be a bit overkill, judging by the current process. I've put a poll up to see how others feel about this and if we should shorten the time period by a little bit.

Maybe a longer solving time is needed, but it could also be the case that after a month people won't even go for further tries. Vote in the poll and let's see how the majority feels!

[Crane]

When the creation deadline comes and the playing phase begins, I find everyone jumps in and plays the heck out of the levels during the first few days, before it quickly dies off as backroutes are patched and people simply get burnt out, and then really, nothing happens after a couple of weeks.

[Gronkling]

if the playing phase is shortened i think it would be best to wait longer for the next contest so we dont get rapid fire contests all the time and they lose their specialness

[Proxima]

Rapid fire? The rules for contest #14 were posted in December. That's two contests in nine months.

I would love to have more frequent contests. All too often it happens that I don't manage to find time to make a level in between everything else that's going on in my life, and then the next chance is an eternity away.

[Crane]

People are different. Sometimes I have a burst of inspiration and can make a level in a very short time (I made "Heaven and Earth" in the space of about 6 hours tops, from concept to the first release).  Other times I struggle with the rules and am not sure how to proceed, or just need a break due to creative burn-out or simply being too busy.

If there was a competition every month, then that would definitely be too frequent.  Every three or four months, I think, would cause the next one to start too soon after the last one concludes (if it's even possible with the voting phase etc.), and yet every six months feels like an eternity.  It's a difficult one.

[namida]

There's no obligation for everyone to enter every contest.

Perhaps one solution could be to run more than one contest concurrently. Not necesserially "there's always two going at a time", but perhaps the creation phase for the next contest could start when this one's voting phase begins, or something like that. This allows a more frequent schedule without rushing individual contests, especially since the voting phase doesn't really require much effort from either participants or voters - no further updates are being made (at least not publicly), and no further playing is generally needed.

I do also feel two months is a bit excessive for both phases, really, especially given that late entries are allowed these days. And it could become a problem when people are wanting to enter levels from upcoming packs - I had to think about whether or not to withdraw my level in case LPVI was ready sooner than expected, but the decision to make it 80 levels instead of 50-60 made this no longer an issue.

[Flopsy]

I wish to withdraw my entries from the contest please.

EDIT: Nothing in the rules prevents me from doing this.

[Crane]

Here are my solutions to the Doofus levels.  Good grief, those were marathons!  They were clever though... you had to pretty much work backwards to work out where you had to use Builders and, to a lesser extent, Bashers and where you could use workarounds that don't require them.

[namida]

I wish to withdraw my entries from the contest please.

EDIT: Nothing in the rules prevents me from doing this.

The rules don't state either that you can or that you can't withdraw, so I guess it'd be up to IchoTolot as the host to decide on that (but you may want to PM him, or at least mention it in the update topic rather than the discussion one). Although since it's still early enough in the contest that late entries are accepted, I'd find it hard to think of a reason not to allow withdrawals.

Perhaps a specific rule on this should be added for the future, too - if nothing else, just to make it completely clear that it is(n't) allowed.

[Flopsy]

I wish to withdraw my entries from the contest please.

EDIT: Nothing in the rules prevents me from doing this.

The rules don't state either that you can or that you can't withdraw, so I guess it'd be up to IchoTolot as the host to decide on that (but you may want to PM him, or at least mention it in the update topic rather than the discussion one). Although since it's still early enough in the contest that late entries are accepted, I'd find it hard to think of a reason not to allow withdrawals.

Perhaps a specific rule on this should be added for the future, too - if nothing else, just to make it completely clear that it is(n't) allowed.

Whether or not IchoTolot decides whether he will or he won't withdraw them, I will be withdrawing them anyway because the rules don't disallow it. I do not wish for the levels to be associated with the contest anymore. I had already posted this in the update topic anyway.

If there is no rule then there is nothing stopping me making this request.

I would not like any more replays submitted to this topic and I do not wish for any further feedback.

Furthermore, I wish for any upcoming YouTube videos (unless I approved them beforehand ) or Streams featuring the contest levels to not include my levels in them.

[Nessy]

I have solved IchoTolot's Rule 3 level, but I'm not sure if it's intended and I want to double check.

[IchoTolot]

You could at least let me have my sleep before starting a heated discussion on this! It was nearly 2 am for me as the message appeared!

I have nothing against a withdraw and they are withdrawed from this point on.

@ Nessy your solution is 100% acceptable.

As most people are for the shortening pf the phase, it will now be over on the 7th of September! I will be away at the start of the month so I don't get the chance to manage the phase switch there.

[Nessy]

Here we are! I have solved every level in this contest with the exception of IchoTolot's Rule 1 levels. It has me defeated for now , but don't worry for it may have won the battle, but not the war yet!

I also couldn't solve Flopsy's Rule 1 entries yet, but since he withdrew his levels I guess technically IchoTolot's levels are the last pair to solve (and any possible backroutes included below )

I will also start my videos on this contest so look out for that if you're interested

[namida]

Intended solution to both of my levels.

[joshescue18]

I finished Arty's Rule 1 levels.

[joshescue18]

I finished namida's Rule 3 level.

[joshescue18]

I finished Raymanni's Rule 2 level.

[joshescue18]

I finished Crane's Rule 2 level.

[joshescue18]

I finished SQron188's Rule 2 level.

[Crane]

I finished Crane's Rule 2 level.

Perfect.  Amusing that you took EXACTLY 2 minutes to complete it!

[Nessy]

@Crane don't forget to check my replays as well

Rule 2 should be good but I want to make sure Rule 3 is okay

[Crane]

@Nessy

Rule 2 - Perfect.  It's a fairly straightforward level.
Rule 3 - A slightly unexpected variant, but you used the intended tricks with the Stackers and used all the tools, so I'll give that one to you! Well done.  (The intention was to turn the Stacker in the pit into a Fencer, and then immediately clone them so they fence out of the pit in both directions, while the Swimmer/Fencer continues to the end as normal, but then uses the Platformer to provide a safe fall from above.)

[SQron188]

Regarding my levels:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No backroutes on R2L7, yet!

(R3L5):

Gronkling's got both levels with the intended-ish solutions, so good effort!

I like Flopsy's R3L5 solution best out of these! Mostly because I'm now able to reduce the skillset - the level will be improved thanks to you, thanks!

Nessy's backrouted this one but the fix I'd prepared earlier should put a stop to that.

[Crane]

Regarding my levels:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

No backroutes on R2L7, yet!

(R3L5):

Gronkling's got both levels with the intended-ish solutions, so good effort!

I like Flopsy's R3L5 solution best out of these! Mostly because I'm now able to reduce the skillset - the level will be improved thanks to you, thanks!

Nessy's backrouted this one but the fix I'd prepared earlier should put a stop to that.

It's amazing how the playing phase can allow our levels to evolve rather than simply patching more and more backroutes.  Teamwork!

[grams88]

Hi guys

Some really nice levels I have to say. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Raymanni's "Seashore Shenanigans" level well the first version I played had an interesting sort of element to it. It reminded me of a level I did a long time ago where you have to act very fast. I wonder if you still have to act fast with the new version.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've still to check the replay to my level but from what I've heard I think it might be the intended solution, still to check. I know lots of us really think this is a backroute but the going under tactic is the one to do.

[Crane]

A couple more solutions. I'm not doing too well with most of the Rule 1 levels unfortunately.  Might have backrouted Waterworks though because I have 3 skills left over, although one was due to good timing.  Also possibly backrouted Turbulent Turnpike Act 2 - I decided to save an extra lemming with the tools I had left over - I would have loved another Walker so I could save the lot!

[Nessy]

@Crane in regards to my Rule 1 level your solution to Act 1 is pretty much intended. Well done!

Act 2's replay broke on V4 of this level unfortunately but judging from the beginning part of the replay and the builder placements at the end where the replay broke you also pretty much have the intended solution to this level. Well done!

[Crane]

Solution for version 4.  I still have a Miner left over.  I almost want to ask you if it can be replaced with a Walker so I can save 100%!

[Nessy]

@Crane: That's it!

I'm very sorry but I do not want to add another Walker skill for fear that it will open up more backroutes that I really don't want to block only because it will ruin the level as-is

Also having one miner left over is okay.

The extra miner is... (click to show/hide)

Just in case you couldn't get the first miner to turn around at the blocker. I don't want people to fail the level because of that.

[Crane]

I dare say, an extra Climber would also work, as I can then use one of the remaining Lemmings to mine under the blocker, which is facing Left, so they can reach the exit no problem, while the Miner is turned into a Climber only after turning around at the small wall near the trapdoor. Saving 100% would make for a nice talisman in a level pack, while the extra Climber will make it more forgiving at the beginning if you're unable to isolate the 2nd Basher.

EDIT: Actually, never mind. Releasing the blocker is not that straightforward because of breaking the bridge and lemmings possibly walking back.

[Crane]

My solution to Death by Crevasse.  Have a Glider left over.

Also my solution to The Lapse Rate V2.

[IchoTolot]

Well, done!

This is an alternative route, but the essential trick I wanted to enforce is there and I won't judge your slightly different way to the bottom with the gliders (even if you miss 2 pick-ups).   + I think your way is a bit more unobvious as the 2 other possible routes anyway.

[Simon]

Two backroutes for Glide Slope.

-- Simon

[Crane]

Thanks! I figure you went out of your way to find those solutions. Still, I've patched the level and tried to keep it aesthetically pleasing.

[SQron188]

Also my solution to The Lapse Rate V2.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nice solution indeed but skips one of the main tricks I wanted the player to figure out in the level. I shall make an update.

Thanks for playing and for the help with the level!

[IchoTolot]

Well, I have the feeling the update broke more than it fixed, as I have 2 spare platformers now. 

[SQron188]

Well, I have the feeling the update broke more than it fixed, as I have 2 spare platformers now. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And that's where you're wrong, my friend Icho, buahahaha! It fixed stuff, I just forgot to reduce them after adding terrain. xD
Also, the placement of that darn little steel piece...

[IchoTolot]

I still got 2 skills left over, but I guess these are used to contain the crowd while I relied on pure timing. So I think these are just there to negate the timing part.

[SQron188]

I still got 2 skills left over, but I guess these are used to contain the crowd while I relied on pure timing. So I think these are just there to negate the timing part.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Kinda, I guess...

Still not exactly the intended thing. Time to update.

[IchoTolot]

Still got a leftover skill.

[SQron188]

Still got a leftover skill.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nope, this is p. much the solution I want.

It's just the particular way you contained the crowd / the leftover skill is for letting crowd out, but it's no biggie.

[joshescue18]

I finished Proxima's R2 level.

[IchoTolot]

I've uploaded more videos focusing on the contest levels that received updates and the solutions for my own entries.

Links:

NL levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3WPQJFY_Qw&t=1s

Lix levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCp7L7OXMg8

Solutions to my levels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFdTAxEIVhk

[Crane]

An alternative solution to Death by Crevasse, based mostly on the intended solution.

[IchoTolot]

I resolved Arty's R3 level.

[Colorful Arty]

Thank you everyone for the stream and for making such amazing levels! I enjoyed playing all of them!

I'm serious, this contest's competition will be fierce, as all of the entries were excellent levels in their own way!

[IchoTolot]

If my previous solution was a backroute then this will be one as well.

[IchoTolot]

Sry Arty, but V6 still doesn't play much different to me.

[IchoTolot]

Sry again, but still no big change needed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Greetings from Laboratory D-E-S-C-E-N-T

[IchoTolot]

Well, this is different, but I still got skills left and an extra saved lemming.

[Crane]

A solution to the new Waterworks.

[IchoTolot]

This could be more intended, but I begin to fear all the pick-ups give away the solution too easily.

[Colorful Arty]

Crane, your replay does not work on WaterWorks V9 unfortunately.

Icho, your solution is acceptable now. You still made it more difficult than necessary though.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

In case you are wondering, you are NOT supposed to perfectly time the swimmers' distance from each other such that a stacker will get the second one up the bottom part. That timing is completely unnecessary with the use of a single other skill (NOT a cloner).

[Crane]

Ah, I downloaded the pack before V9 was implemented.  I think I got the trick though, although my solution may or may not be a backroute on account of the last Cloner being somewhat arbitrary.

I would ponder about scattering the pick-up skills in multiple places that Lemmings will go, so as to disguise the intended solution a bit better.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I might even put a decoy pick-up on that platform to the left of the first stomper trap, enticing you to waste a Platformer to get over there - really, what drew me to the correct solution is working out where the Platformers have to be used, discovering I had one short and working out where I could spare one.

[IchoTolot]

Update: I am withdrawing Tight Schedule from the contest, because at this stage I feel that leaving it in the contest will force me to delay LPVI's release to follow contest rules. To be clear, Latent Lodge is not being withdrawn, as it was created specifically for (and only for) the contest.

I am willing to make an exception here if you want namida. It's 100% your choice, but I don't think anybody would mind if the pack is being released within the voting phase.
Just say again if you still want it to be withdrawn, but as I said I think nobody would mind a slight exception here. 

[Crane]

I hope the level stays as part of the competition - I like how it falls together.

[namida]

I would rather no exceptions be made. However, I will leave the level in the contest (and undo the demo update that includes that level now) if a specific, permanent rule that addresses that kind of situation is implemented. I'll leave it to Icho to decide whether it should be or not.

[IchoTolot]

I would rather no exceptions be made. However, I will leave the level in the contest (and undo the demo update that includes that level now) if a specific, permanent rule that addresses that kind of situation is implemented. I'll leave it to Icho to decide whether it should be or not.

I could state or specify an existing rule to only exclude levels which are part of an already released pack.

I see no problem that a contest has a level which is included in a pack that is released after the contest's playing phase has started.

This way the level's official release is still in the contest and not in the pack. Only maybe a few testers have seen it and it's still new and fresh for the contest audience.

EDIT: I modified Section 1 rule c). This already stated specifically that only levels with a prior release are to be excluded. I added the sentence that allows public releases after the beginning of the playing phase.

[namida]

Alright. I'd also say, by that definition, the demo is fine too, as it was updated after the playing phase begun.

[Colorful Arty]

Sorry to get back to you so late Crane. Your solution was amazing! You did everything perfectly, except you found a way to remove a cloner from the skillset! I simply removed a cloner pickup skill and lowered the save requirement by 1. Very well done!

[Crane]

Well, I'm honoured that I managed to evolve your level!  Can I just double-check that version 10 is correct? The pickup now only has 1 Cloner, whereas in version 9 it was 5, and I think it's now impossible to complete.

In the meantime, here's another replay for version 9.  With some more care in the lemmings I assign skills to, I'm able to save 9 lemmings, one more than necessary.

[IchoTolot]

Ok, now the V10 version is also in the pack and here's my solution to it.

[IchoTolot]

And the updates are closed now, in a few days the voting will begin.